Very disappointed in the PvP metagame

[Mawouel]

Hello everyone. I've just finished to train my pvp comp, which is in my opinion quite balanced, and decided to hop into ranked games too see how the meta is going. Had around 15 cool games with various builds and strategies and interesting gameplay. But once i've hit 150 rating points, the only thing i saw was full Blissey/milotic/milltank comps that were running toxic and some sort of self heal. Each of the 6 pokemon of the team had the exact same role. Stalling to death. I got an adamant max atk azumarill and was barely able to do 1/2 hp to blissey which is supposed to be a special tank, which was quickly healed off when i had to switch out azumarill to avoid dieing from toxic too fast. Not even talking about the 1/4hp i got from an electivire earthquake.

 

In my opinion, this meta is the most toxic ever imaginable. Game last about 30-45mn just because i don't like quitting, and from the first 2-3 hits i already know that i don't have enough offensive power to wear down any of the ennemy team pokemon, and that the game will probably be lost unless some miracle happens (like a server crash)

 

I feel like the absence of choice band may be the source of this lack of overall damage on walls, but anyways it doesnt feel at all like pokemon pvp should feel. No prediction, only boring switchings in and out again and again to reset status problem, and toxic+heal spamming. All the hard work i've put into my team is just thrown away because anything besides playing blissey/donphan/miltank/clefary/milotic/slowbro is ridiculously weak. And i really don't feel like running a specific counter to this kind of thing, since the games are the most boring I've ever played. I even consider quitting the game after about 200h spent to finish the story and get the pvp team i wanted, just because all the fun was sucked from me today.

 

 

Sorry for all the whining, i may be completely mistaken and maybe i'm the only one having trouble with this kind of comp. But i seriously doubt it.

[Methos402]

I agree with that words... it's boring to play in pvp when the "healing comp" is all that we see..

[Leekhoasoooo]

You are very lucky with 15 matchs and doesnt meet any ohko user, sleep all team, bug move :D

[Mawouel]

I had some games against sleep abusers, but i'm running lum berries a lot so i could pretty much punish any spore tentative.

Didnt see any buggued move abuse tho, the only bugs i've seen are lum berries cleaning toxic and toxic reappearing magically.

[Utsu]

86262 Hello everyone. I've just finished to train my pvp comp, which is in my opinion quite balanced, and decided to hop into ranked games too see how the meta is going. Had around 15 cool games with various builds and strategies and interesting gameplay. But once i've hit 150 rating points, the only thing i saw was full Blissey/milotic/milltank comps that were running toxic and some sort of self heal. Each of the 6 pokemon of the team had the exact same role. Stalling to death. I got an adamant max atk azumarill and was barely able to do 1/2 hp to blissey which is supposed to be a special tank, which was quickly healed off when i had to switch out azumarill to avoid dieing from toxic too fast. Not even talking about the 1/4hp i got from an electivire earthquake.

 

In my opinion, this meta is the most toxic ever imaginable. Game last about 30-45mn just because i don't like quitting, and from the first 2-3 hits i already know that i don't have enough offensive power to wear down any of the ennemy team pokemon, and that the game will probably be lost unless some miracle happens (like a server crash)

 

I feel like the absence of choice band may be the source of this lack of overall damage on walls, but anyways it doesnt feel at all like pokemon pvp should feel. No prediction, only boring switchings in and out again and again to reset status problem, and toxic+heal spamming. All the hard work i've put into my team is just thrown away because anything besides playing blissey/donphan/miltank/clefary/milotic/slowbro is ridiculously weak. And i really don't feel like running a specific counter to this kind of thing, since the games are the most boring I've ever played. I even consider quitting the game after about 200h spent to finish the story and get the pvp team i wanted, just because all the fun was sucked from me today.

 

 

Sorry for all the whining, i may be completely mistaken and maybe i'm the only one having trouble with this kind of comp. But i seriously doubt it.

 

That is called Metagame. Stalling is a gameplay. Some players like to play Stall Teams, even if you find it toxic.

 

Anyway the Metagame is not fixed, there is a lot of Pokémon/Items/Moves not availables, so you just have to wait for them and it will change for sure, we need some rules aswell like Sleep Clause, OHKO Clause etc...

[Shadowbolt]

bump.. :y: now u know i battle me again hahahah

[Mawouel]

86274

 

That is called Metagame. Stalling is a gameplay. Some players like to play Stall Teams, even if you find it toxic.

 

Anyway the Metagame is not fixed, there is a lot of Pokémon/Items/Moves not availables, so you just have to wait for them and it will change for sure, we need some rules aswell like Sleep Clause, OHKO Clause etc...

 

 

I understand stall teams and i have actually not much problem with them. As long as they have to actually play smart, and they can be counter played. At the moment, there is absolutely 0 chance to wear down any of those walls before they get to 0pp on their heals, since they can pretty much switch in on any move without thinking about typing, physical/special, etc. A good stall team in my opinion should use protect moves wisely, use their type immunity to win as much time and as much free hits as they can, in order to let the toxic/dots do the job. But this require prediction, and to actually take risks. Playing 4 normal typed pokemon on the same team shows only one thing : typing and move effectiveness prediction isnt at all in the balance of the decision making involved, and this is very sad. I could program any bot to do toxic/switch/toxic/switch/heal/switch/heal/repeat, without any pokemon knowledge, and any algorithm involved. This is just an exemple, but to say that a 0 decision making team is able to win i think 80% of its matchups is very sad.

 

Ohko users are kinda counterable as long as they dont use huge normal typed walls (rhyperior can be easily ohkoed for exemple) even if the rng reliance is infuriating, and same goes for the sleep users since most of the time they dont use full stall teams and actually take risks when switching in, especially if the ennemy team is using lum berries. The point i'm trying to explain is you could basically implement a npc boss with the same comp and he would do as well as any of the players using those comps. I repeat, i don't have anything about players using those teams, i just find it very toxic for the game that a 0 decision making comp is way more viable than any of the usual pokemon pvp teams.

[Mawouel]

Just passing by to say egg moves helped me a lot in wallbreaking. I don't know if it's the same for anyone, but just being able to get belly drum/aqua jet on my azumarill gave me a good option to deal with those blissey. The more we'll get additionnal moves, the more the meta should stabilize in my opinion (and the more we should get original strats too, just thinking about the baton pass mew I've seen today ^^)

 

Anyways, thank you for this update and for your awesome work, can't wait to see how the meta will evolve with this one ! (as long as full normal typed healing tanks is no longer a mandatory thing è_é)

[Celesternia]

Even without the use of new eggmoves as bellydrum azumarill, there was a way to break through these toxic stall gameplan.

 

Some common physical sweepers can destroy these Blissey/Chansey, Clefable and Miltank walls. Swords dance is an amazing wallbreaking move when using on pokemon which are immune to toxic or doesn't mind being paralyzed such as Excadrill and Scizor. If you have no way of beating stall, why not trying to use a stallbreaker in your team, using Taunt to shut down any wall relying on toxic/heal move? For instance, we have two amazing stallbreakers in the PRO metagame with bulky Gyarados who taunts any wall without an electric move to prevent them from healing/using toxic and sets up dragon dance on their faces since they can't hit it very hard. And of course, there is defensive Talonflame with Taunt and foremost Roost which keeps it healthy, boosting its average attack to sky-high level with swords dance and brave bird them to oblivion. It also helps against common sleep abusers since a lot of them are actually grass type.

 

And if you really struggle against status moves abusers, you might consider using a cleric (using aromatherapy/heal beal) in your team to deal with them. Hope it helps!

[Mawouel]

Thank you, i'm considering getting a vaporeon (i'm running a rain team) to get advantage of the water immunity and to be able to heal bell my team. Atm i'm more concerned with grass typed users since i dont have any reliable way to deal with abomasnow besides suiciding one of my walls on his chain wood hammer and revenge killing him. I'm training a tentacruel since they finally got access to rapid spin, in order to have a bit more things to play with, to replace my milotic that was basically a surf/dragon tail bot. Anyways, my team worked wonders so far, i can only hope to do better !