Pokemon Tiers [2016-04-16]

[Bong2015]

@shewas18 plz take this thread as personal reference don't be too harsh. It's just Irafayel option and his own observation on the rate those pokemons appear in ranked games, not about strong and weak the pkms are.(And I quite agree with his list..) This will help new players and pll lazy at ranking have a idea of current metagame.

 

Anyway, I think gliscor should be on OU as I meet them quite often currently while haven't encountered a single Slowbro from 60 games.

[Irafayel]

144469

A lot of the people that were in the top 25, during first 2-3 weeks, are no longer in top 25 for the very reason you said. Most of the good battlers take advantage of the first couple of weeks to try out new teams and combinations and what not. As such, it would be foolish to lend any great weight to ladder placement or victories during this period, but thats just my opinion and you are most certainly entitled to yours. Tbh, i take pride in anyone bragging victory over me :)

 

Either way this thread wasn't made with the intention of dissing people, their teams or the combination of moves/abilities/natures/ev spread that they use. Just open ended discussions without calling names or denouncing anyone or their pvp related opinions.

 

Back to Ttar. Talonflame is never going to stick around even after inflicting burn on ttar. Two staples you are always going to find ttar running are stone edge and crunch both of which are now significantly weaker as a result of burn. That leaves two slots left for "coverage". Using one of those slots for twave now limits ttar to one slot for coverage. Again, probably going to be one of ice beam / tbolt / flamethrower or one of the punches (and if it is one of the punches they are also significantly weaker now as well). Assuming its one of the special attack moves the best will probably be ice beam (considering hippo / donphan / gliscor are popular checks to ttar). Interestingly enough, if either of them are used it renders thunder wave useless. This means ferrothorn, skarmory and most fighting types can freely switch in on ttar. Neither of ferro or skarm are too bothered by twave and the most common fighting type used currently, machamp, is already slower than ttar anyway. What im trying to say is, the coverage argument doenst really add up when running twave, and to be honest, across 3 ranked season i never once faced a twave ttar. Personally i much prefer stealth rock on ttar but that again reduces his coverage options and there are also better SR setters.

 

Leaving all that aside, this thread is about what is being used CURRENTLY, and good ways to counter the current set ups. Of course new ideas are always welcome but there is absolutely no need to get toxic about them.

You were the one braging "i never met you in ladder yet" definitly sounded toxic or i am wrong , that appart I AM probably the guy trying the most of thing in the ladder and i being nowhere attached to my actual ranking or whatever you'r claiming but that's not the subject we both agree on that.

 

Let's go back to tflamme and ttar , if you predict the switch and burn ttar , you'r ain't going to stick anyway since you can't harm ttar ,so it ends up by having rocks up for a burn(way better setter there) , or having your ttar check(which are almost the same as any physical mon ,skarm,hippo,ferro,donphan,while togekiss is an exception) destroyed by the same way your burned him , by "prediction" , that's the only way to cripple ttar without having to sap your bird or a stone miss , running crunch is the same as running adamant nature bascilly it's bad or nowhere near optimal.

-->(if you'r able to do prediction, why your opponent couldn't when ttar switch in are so obvious and always sent , while all of them are 2hkoed by coverage , only skarm outspeed ttar and maybe expect to roost stall ttar , with enough investissement in special it can't and for the other no one can harm him in return since they'r slowers ,and help for an excadrill sweep later)

Only thing crunch hits harder than any coverage moove are starmie/mew/slowbro , none of them are going to stick anyway(your own argument there <3), if you hope to do well in any meta/ladder/pokemongame/whatever , you need bird and fighting resistances or huge physical wall is the base of the competitive game unless you runs HO , so saying fighting mon/moove destroys ttar because he runs whatever set is an awful argument

 

One more question ,HOW machamp is slower than ttar ? unless you run a ton of evs speed with your awesome evs fulled in atq (yeah awesome adamant crunch spam ttar), sad fact , if you'r not running enough speed on your machamp to outspeed most common used pokemon in the actual meta just show how obvious you got no clue about what you'r telling .(no offense/toxicity right there) .

 

One more thing , i'll quote you there "this thread is about what is being used CURRENTLY" so why is "best set/nature" written in front of everything and not most used set/spreads one ?

It fools every new players or clueless one .

 

I apologize if i mislead you, when i asked why arent you on ladder i meant "why are you not in ladder right now?" i never said we never battled.

 

You are always assuming that coverage is going to hit what its meant for. There is no guarantee that opponent will switch in something that is weak to the coverage you are running (i mentioned all the many pokemon that could potentially switch in on ttar). Even if you have say, both ice beam and flamethrower, you still have to make a wild guess here. In that event (that opponent throws something that resist both the coverage you chose as well as crunch), crunch would be better as it has stab and may also lower defense. But you make a good point running moves that cover pokemon that counter excadrill greatly increases excadrills late game sweep chances.

 

As for champ, most often right now you see people trying to out speed blissey primarily. Ttars speed tier isnt far off but if you champ has less than 25 ivs in speed this could eat upto nearly 90-100 evs. Again i emphasize that this is just MY OPINION on what pokemon i think are used more often and how they are used. I stated that right at the top from the very start (and at the bottom again). That is the same logic i used to say that champ is slower than ttar, i have seldom found machamps that have outsped my ttar, except ones that are max speed (you can tell as they are much squishier). This is also the reason i have said "best natures/sets/etc". This is my opinion. If you find that you so adamantly disagree with it you can make your own thread and express your opinions there. I may have a difference of opinion, but i can assure you that i wont come to your thread saying

you got no clue about what you'r telling

 

Maybe i dont, but what ever im thinking so far has suited me well for 3 seasons and the official tournament, so i dunno, you tell me.

[Irafayel]

144712 @shewas18 plz take this thread as personal reference don't be too harsh. It's just Irafayel option and his own observation on the rate those pokemons appear in ranked games, not about strong and weak the pkms are.(And I quite agree with his list..) This will help new players and pll lazy at ranking have a idea of current metagame.

 

Anyway, I think gliscor should be on OU as I meet them quite often currently while haven't encountered a single Slowbro from 60 games.

 

Hmm i feel that the popularity of donphan and its access to ice shard combined with toxic orb not working makes donphan a better choice as a defence tank. As a taunter glis is good as well but he loses his ability to absorb statuses without toxic orb as well. But you are right many players do use gliscor in spite of these. Hopefully we can get some more opinion on this.

 

(nice sig btw :P)

[Shewas18]

144712 @shewas18 plz take this thread as personal reference don't be too harsh. It's just Irafayel option and his own observation on the rate those pokemons appear in ranked games, not about strong and weak the pkms are.(And I quite agree with his list..) This will help new players and pll lazy at ranking have a idea of current metagame.

Never said he was wrong for everything ,and yea it's a personal reference and not a community one .

Nowhere i meant to be harsh (maybe a little:p)

You are always assuming that coverage is going to hit what its meant for. There is no guarantee that opponent will switch in something that is weak to the coverage you are running (i mentioned all the many pokemon that could potentially switch in on ttar). Even if you have say, both ice beam and flamethrower, you still have to make a wild guess here. In that event (that opponent throws something that resist both the coverage you chose as well as crunch), crunch would be better as it has stab and may also lower defense. But you make a good point running moves that cover pokemon that counter excadrill greatly increases excadrills late game sweep chances.

Rock are resisted by ground,steel,and figthing , stone edge+coverage hit harder anything in the whole meta than crunch doesn't except the three mons i listed (ah forgot medicham ) so yeah click edge or coverage will almost always be better

If you find that you so adamantly disagree with it you can make your own thread and express your opinions there.

Let's be honest it's a waste of time when 50-80% of the serveur are thinking moxie>inti on gyara or adamant ttar is better or even expriming their opinion and claiming thing without pointing them with reals numbers over words/assumation/guessing .(I AM harsh right there)

That is the same logic i used to say that champ is slower than ttar, i have seldom found machamps that have outsped my ttar, except ones that are max speed (you can tell as they are much squishier).

Trading around 7%-12% of machamp's bulk to outspeed thing as ttar is sure making it lesssssssssssssssssss bulky .

his is also the reason i have said "best natures/sets/etc". This is my opinion.

Yes this is your opinion, and nowhere it means that's the best set atm , like i said it's fooling/missleading clueless people how the game works (or lazy one pointed bong) "how damn my machamp to get ride of ttar is slower , possibly get 2hko if it switch in ,get wears down really fast since no recovery at all " , overall i never said your opinion were all wrong or that bad .

[Abizaria]

good job ty

[Echolalie]

Thanks very useful ! Keep going ! :Heart-eyes:

[Zupercooer]

Just thought to add my 2 cents. I think people cast down and seriously underestimate offensive analytic (which works btw) starmie. Yes it is fast but the reason why it works is because you can force quite a few switch ins and therefore allows you to attack second. Based on the theory craft on showdown you to deal a surprising amount of damage, for instance hydropump would have 110 base power+ stab +30 % damage with analytic boost giving 215 power (provided it hits) and psyshock to deal with spdef walls does 156 damage with stab and 30% boost from analytic. Then you have a choice of going all out offensive throwing in ice beam and thunderbolt or having rapid spin utility/ recover for longevity. Also I found that the spd/hp starmie set with natural cure is also viable and therefore can play as a utility starmie. The only thing I do not know about with utility starmie is if reflect type works yet and is available, because that makes it even more reliable as a rapid spinner too.

[Sangkujung]

156062 Just thought to add my 2 cents. I think people cast down and seriously underestimate offensive analytic (which works btw) starmie. Yes it is fast but the reason why it works is because you can force quite a few switch ins and therefore allows you to attack second. Based on the theory craft on showdown you to deal a surprising amount of damage, for instance hydropump would have 110 base power+ stab +30 % damage with analytic boost giving 215 power (provided it hits) and psyshock to deal with spdef walls does 156 damage with stab and 30% boost from analytic. Then you have a choice of going all out offensive throwing in ice beam and thunderbolt or having rapid spin utility/ recover for longevity. Also I found that the spd/hp starmie set with natural cure is also viable and therefore can play as a utility starmie. The only thing I do not know about with utility starmie is if reflect type works yet and is available, because that makes it even more reliable as a rapid spinner too.

Last time i checked analytic doesnt work that way in pro even though it should. IT doesnt boost the damage after switches, sadly :(

And pretty sure reflect type doesnt work either.

[Zupercooer]

156126

156062 Just thought to add my 2 cents. I think people cast down and seriously underestimate offensive analytic (which works btw) starmie. Yes it is fast but the reason why it works is because you can force quite a few switch ins and therefore allows you to attack second. Based on the theory craft on showdown you to deal a surprising amount of damage, for instance hydropump would have 110 base power+ stab +30 % damage with analytic boost giving 215 power (provided it hits) and psyshock to deal with spdef walls does 156 damage with stab and 30% boost from analytic. Then you have a choice of going all out offensive throwing in ice beam and thunderbolt or having rapid spin utility/ recover for longevity. Also I found that the spd/hp starmie set with natural cure is also viable and therefore can play as a utility starmie. The only thing I do not know about with utility starmie is if reflect type works yet and is available, because that makes it even more reliable as a rapid spinner too.

Last time i checked analytic doesnt work that way in pro even though it should. IT doesnt boost the damage after switches, sadly :(

And pretty sure reflect type doesnt work either.

Ah ok, because I was checking the list and I didn't see that it didn't work. I was reading it through smogon, the set details on offensive starmie suggests that it can be used like that to OHKO quite a handful of pokemon because if you force your opponent to switch to something like clefable with hydro pump and rotom (when he comes into pvp) with psychic, for them to switch they have priority and therefore starmie moves last in this case and therefore gets the analytic boost. Could you show me where I can find what abilities work in PRO?

[Sangkujung]

156132

156126

156062 Just thought to add my 2 cents. I think people cast down and seriously underestimate offensive analytic (which works btw) starmie. Yes it is fast but the reason why it works is because you can force quite a few switch ins and therefore allows you to attack second. Based on the theory craft on showdown you to deal a surprising amount of damage, for instance hydropump would have 110 base power+ stab +30 % damage with analytic boost giving 215 power (provided it hits) and psyshock to deal with spdef walls does 156 damage with stab and 30% boost from analytic. Then you have a choice of going all out offensive throwing in ice beam and thunderbolt or having rapid spin utility/ recover for longevity. Also I found that the spd/hp starmie set with natural cure is also viable and therefore can play as a utility starmie. The only thing I do not know about with utility starmie is if reflect type works yet and is available, because that makes it even more reliable as a rapid spinner too.

Last time i checked analytic doesnt work that way in pro even though it should. IT doesnt boost the damage after switches, sadly :(

And pretty sure reflect type doesnt work either.

Ah ok, because I was checking the list and I didn't see that it didn't work. I was reading it through smogon, the set details on offensive starmie suggests that it can be used like that to OHKO quite a handful of pokemon because if you force your opponent to switch to something like clefable with hydro pump and rotom (when he comes into pvp) with psychic, for them to switch they have priority and therefore starmie moves last in this case and therefore gets the analytic boost. Could you show me where I can find what abilities work in PRO?

ye, i am also disappointed since analytic doesnt work on switches.I did report it, so hope it gets fixed soon.

I search for the working abilites and moves from mostly player sources,dev change logs and help chat.

Though there are guide like https://pokemonrevolution.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=97&t=8951

not sure if they are updated though.