Pokemon Tiers [2016-04-16]

[Sangkujung]

I think ttar has to be ou.

Its has diverse sets and counters the rising bird talonflame.Has access to stealth rock,thunder wave.It has glaring weaknesses to but its a monster once its checks/counters are handled.

Sp atck set hits sableye hard too and it can run super power to take care of bliss etc.

Also medicham>uu (sab has made it less useful but still it hits way to hard)

Crawdaunt>uu (it hits like a truck with adaptability)

Mandibuzz>uu (Only defogger with scizor,hast access to great support move and great hp/def/spdef)

Gastrodon>uu (only 1 weakness grass and there is lack of grass moves in current meta,has curse and great partner with talon)

Jellicient..i am not sure abt it being uu i think deserves ou. Wondering wht others think?

[Sesshomaru]

142997 ah yes ttar. I weighed the pros and cons like this.

 

The things going for ttar right now are one, sand stream, and two its the best counter to togekiss (most toge dont run aura sphere i find) and to some extent a good counter to talon (though it has to be wary of will-o-wisp and no one uses guts ttar :|).

 

The problems, its completely and utterly walled by donphan / hippowdon. Even if it runs a mixed set, unless invested in sp atk it doenst do significant enough dmg to either of them (i've seen a few ice beam ttar, which is very uncommon and they do about 30-40% to donphan and less to hippo). This gives them a free chance to set up stealth rock. Skarmalso does a decent job of tanking ttar and setting up its own hazzards. Besides that ttar is also weak to 3 of the most prominent priority attacks ; bullet punch / mach punch / aqua jet. Bullet punch and aqua jet in particular are very common right now, which means even the much less bulkier dragon dance set is not so viable either. Besides that, ttar also has difficulty checking certain pokemon you would expect it to check, with arca having access to close combat and weavile brick break. Besides all that i just prefer hippo as a sand stream user as well, its bulkier, has reliable recover and can counter talon as well as excadril.

 

I just feel that the cons outweigh the pros in ttars case right now :/

 

i agree on the pro and cons (besides that ttar has no guts ability^^), however in your threadpost itself you said that those tiers are made based on usage. And for now clefable is barely used( i think i saw like ... 1 in over 500 ranked battles?) while every second battle i felt had a ttar. Just a suggestion from my side to switch those both but that might just be me.

[Irafayel]

143055

142997 ah yes ttar. I weighed the pros and cons like this.

 

The things going for ttar right now are one, sand stream, and two its the best counter to togekiss (most toge dont run aura sphere i find) and to some extent a good counter to talon (though it has to be wary of will-o-wisp and no one uses guts ttar :|).

 

The problems, its completely and utterly walled by donphan / hippowdon. Even if it runs a mixed set, unless invested in sp atk it doenst do significant enough dmg to either of them (i've seen a few ice beam ttar, which is very uncommon and they do about 30-40% to donphan and less to hippo). This gives them a free chance to set up stealth rock. Skarmalso does a decent job of tanking ttar and setting up its own hazzards. Besides that ttar is also weak to 3 of the most prominent priority attacks ; bullet punch / mach punch / aqua jet. Bullet punch and aqua jet in particular are very common right now, which means even the much less bulkier dragon dance set is not so viable either. Besides that, ttar also has difficulty checking certain pokemon you would expect it to check, with arca having access to close combat and weavile brick break. Besides all that i just prefer hippo as a sand stream user as well, its bulkier, has reliable recover and can counter talon as well as excadril.

 

I just feel that the cons outweigh the pros in ttars case right now :/

 

i agree on the pro and cons (besides that ttar has no guts ability^^), however in your threadpost itself you said that those tiers are made based on usage. And for now clefable is barely used( i think i saw like ... 1 in over 500 ranked battles?) while every second battle i felt had a ttar. Just a suggestion from my side to switch those both but that might just be me.

 

I have to agree then, ttar has enough positives to deserve an OU ranking, i'll add it in a bit. I still fell that fable deserves OU as well though, but that is up to debate of course :)

143046 I think ttar has to be ou.

Its has diverse sets and counters the rising bird talonflame.Has access to stealth rock,thunder wave.It has glaring weaknesses to but its a monster once its checks/counters are handled.

Sp atck set hits sableye hard too and it can run super power to take care of bliss etc.

Also medicham>uu (sab has made it less useful but still it hits way to hard)

Crawdaunt>uu (it hits like a truck with adaptability)

Mandibuzz>uu (Only defogger with scizor,hast access to great support move and great hp/def/spdef)

Gastrodon>uu (only 1 weakness grass and there is lack of grass moves in current meta,has curse and great partner with talon)

Jellicient..i am not sure abt it being uu i think deserves ou. Wondering wht others think?

 

Agree on ttar, adding it to OU. All the others are very strong yes, but are very rarely seen.

 

See a bit more medicham being used, but its very squishy and has limited opportunities to switch in. Crawdaunt hits amazingly hard and is difficult to deal with but is again squishy to some extent and rare to find on ladder. Mandibuzz is really good but very few players have one, let alone a good one. Gastradon and jelicent i feel have fallen off a bit since rain is no longer used much. Though gastradon is a very useful counter to azumaril/gyara and jelicent is probably the best counter to arca, still dont see them all that much in ranked so i feel like they should stay as uu.

[Shewas18]

my eyes are bleeding after reading few spreads & co , just about the whole argument on ttar, with coverage his "check" like you said are absolutly free to kill , anyway running adamant nature on ttar is absolutly garbage btw , unless you want ttar to sweep on his own and run a jolly nature, his job is to provide support and a reliable check to talonflamme, since pursuit isn't working you can't trap either , so you have to run coverage moove to soften his check (thoose are the same as excadrill check , so yeah running one rock moove to get ride of the bird and full coverage is free points on the ladder for some free excadrill sweep{wich one check talonflamme w/o problem with sand in game})

[Irafayel]

143981 my eyes are bleeding after reading few spreads & co , just about the whole argument on ttar, with coverage his "check" like you said are absolutly free to kill , anyway running adamant nature on ttar is absolutly garbage btw , unless you want ttar to sweep on his own and run a jolly nature, his job is to provide support and a reliable check to talonflamme, since pursuit isn't working you can't trap either , so you have to run coverage moove to soften his check (thoose are the same as excadrill check , so yeah running one rock moove to get ride of the bird and full coverage is free points on the ladder for some free excadrill sweep{wich one check talonflamme w/o problem with sand in game})

 

You have to realize that all the spreads i said are what are used in PRO (not smogon, not showdown where everything works). Ttar cant be classified as a "reliable" check to talon when wisp can cripple it so badly. In my experience ice punch / ice beam ttars still go down to donphan and hippo, hippo especially as it can heal up if necessary and stay alive through the battle. If it so easy to get free points on the ladder, as you say, using ttar with rock + coverage and sweeping with excadrill, why dont i see you on ladder? :|

[Shewas18]

im at 481 rn ? and i was ahead of you for a lonnngtime? (aren't you the guy i beated 2times ina row by clicking eq on your talonflamme ,same talonflamme i sold to you btw) ,for the information i stopped pvping 1-2 weeks ago after i lost to phoenix on a fang freeze trough confusion(and i can tell everymoove he runs on his both account since i faced him so much) so i took a break and there no reason to ladder atm when you have just to win 3-4games at the end of the season to hit rank 25+ when you are around 500, one more thing ... 0 Atk burned Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 368-434 (102.5 - 120.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO , when you are saying thing give numbers with it , so you got your ttar crippled ? it's meant to be a support, spam t-wave or coverage moove , and unless you'r brainless, but godbless in your case you are topladder , do some prediction , and click coverage moove than crunch everyday , will kinda help .

[Irafayel]

144343 im at 481 rn ? and i was ahead of you for a lonnngtime? (aren't you the guy i beated 2times ina row by clicking eq on your talonflamme ,same talonflamme i sold to you btw) ,for the information i stopped pvping 1-2 weeks ago after i lost to phoenix on a fang freeze trough confusion(and i can tell everymoove he runs on his both account since i faced him so much) so i took a break and there no reason to ladder atm when you have just to win 3-4games at the end of the season to hit rank 25+ when you are around 500, one more thing ... 0 Atk burned Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 368-434 (102.5 - 120.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO , when you are saying thing give numbers with it , so you got your ttar crippled ? it's meant to be a support, spam t-wave or coverage moove , and unless you'r brainless, but godbless in your case you are topladder , do some prediction , and click coverage moove than crunch everyday , will kinda help .

 

A lot of the people that were in the top 25, during first 2-3 weeks, are no longer in top 25 for the very reason you said. Most of the good battlers take advantage of the first couple of weeks to try out new teams and combinations and what not. As such, it would be foolish to lend any great weight to ladder placement or victories during this period, but thats just my opinion and you are most certainly entitled to yours. Tbh, i take pride in anyone bragging victory over me :)

 

Either way this thread wasn't made with the intention of dissing people, their teams or the combination of moves/abilities/natures/ev spread that they use. Just open ended discussions without calling names or denouncing anyone or their pvp related opinions.

 

Back to Ttar. Talonflame is never going to stick around even after inflicting burn on ttar. Two staples you are always going to find ttar running are stone edge and crunch both of which are now significantly weaker as a result of burn. That leaves two slots left for "coverage". Using one of those slots for twave now limits ttar to one slot for coverage. Again, probably going to be one of ice beam / tbolt / flamethrower or one of the punches (and if it is one of the punches they are also significantly weaker now as well). Assuming its one of the special attack moves the best will probably be ice beam (considering hippo / donphan / gliscor are popular checks to ttar). Interestingly enough, if either of them are used it renders thunder wave useless. This means ferrothorn, skarmory and most fighting types can freely switch in on ttar. Neither of ferro or skarm are too bothered by twave and the most common fighting type used currently, machamp, is already slower than ttar anyway. What im trying to say is, the coverage argument doenst really add up when running twave, and to be honest, across 3 ranked season i never once faced a twave ttar. Personally i much prefer stealth rock on ttar but that again reduces his coverage options and there are also better SR setters.

 

Leaving all that aside, this thread is about what is being used CURRENTLY, and good ways to counter the current set ups. Of course new ideas are always welcome but there is absolutely no need to get toxic about them.

[Straatlamp]

Very useful thread, also very organised!

[Shewas18]

A lot of the people that were in the top 25, during first 2-3 weeks, are no longer in top 25 for the very reason you said. Most of the good battlers take advantage of the first couple of weeks to try out new teams and combinations and what not. As such, it would be foolish to lend any great weight to ladder placement or victories during this period, but thats just my opinion and you are most certainly entitled to yours. Tbh, i take pride in anyone bragging victory over me :)

 

Either way this thread wasn't made with the intention of dissing people, their teams or the combination of moves/abilities/natures/ev spread that they use. Just open ended discussions without calling names or denouncing anyone or their pvp related opinions.

 

Back to Ttar. Talonflame is never going to stick around even after inflicting burn on ttar. Two staples you are always going to find ttar running are stone edge and crunch both of which are now significantly weaker as a result of burn. That leaves two slots left for "coverage". Using one of those slots for twave now limits ttar to one slot for coverage. Again, probably going to be one of ice beam / tbolt / flamethrower or one of the punches (and if it is one of the punches they are also significantly weaker now as well). Assuming its one of the special attack moves the best will probably be ice beam (considering hippo / donphan / gliscor are popular checks to ttar). Interestingly enough, if either of them are used it renders thunder wave useless. This means ferrothorn, skarmory and most fighting types can freely switch in on ttar. Neither of ferro or skarm are too bothered by twave and the most common fighting type used currently, machamp, is already slower than ttar anyway. What im trying to say is, the coverage argument doenst really add up when running twave, and to be honest, across 3 ranked season i never once faced a twave ttar. Personally i much prefer stealth rock on ttar but that again reduces his coverage options and there are also better SR setters.

 

Leaving all that aside, this thread is about what is being used CURRENTLY, and good ways to counter the current set ups. Of course new ideas are always welcome but there is absolutely no need to get toxic about them.

You were the one braging "i never met you in ladder yet" definitly sounded toxic or i am wrong , that appart I AM probably the guy trying the most of thing in the ladder and i being nowhere attached to my actual ranking or whatever you'r claiming but that's not the subject we both agree on that.

 

Let's go back to tflamme and ttar , if you predict the switch and burn ttar , you'r ain't going to stick anyway since you can't harm ttar ,so it ends up by having rocks up for a burn(way better setter there) , or having your ttar check(which are almost the same as any physical mon ,skarm,hippo,ferro,donphan,while togekiss is an exception) destroyed by the same way your burned him , by "prediction" , that's the only way to cripple ttar without having to sap your bird or a stone miss , running crunch is the same as running adamant nature bascilly it's bad or nowhere near optimal.

-->(if you'r able to do prediction, why your opponent couldn't when ttar switch in are so obvious and always sent , while all of them are 2hkoed by coverage , only skarm outspeed ttar and maybe expect to roost stall ttar , with enough investissement in special it can't and for the other no one can harm him in return since they'r slowers ,and help for an excadrill sweep later)

Only thing crunch hits harder than any coverage moove are starmie/mew/slowbro , none of them are going to stick anyway(your own argument there <3), if you hope to do well in any meta/ladder/pokemongame/whatever , you need bird and fighting resistances or huge physical wall is the base of the competitive game unless you runs HO , so saying fighting mon/moove destroys ttar because he runs whatever set is an awful argument

 

One more question ,HOW machamp is slower than ttar ? unless you run a ton of evs speed with your awesome evs fulled in atq (yeah awesome adamant crunch spam ttar), sad fact , if you'r not running enough speed on your machamp to outspeed most common used pokemon in the actual meta just show how obvious you got no clue about what you'r telling .(no offense/toxicity right there) .

 

One more thing , i'll quote you there "this thread is about what is being used CURRENTLY" so why is "best set/nature" written in front of everything and not most used set/spreads one ?

It fools every new players or clueless one .

[Burdy]

Ahh thank you for this, i was looking for something like this to help build my team :Smile: