Please rate my team / 6th slot suggestion

[Ale29]

Hi, I've made this team for PVP... it's a just for fun thing and have no intention of climbing ladders, but still I'd like to have something remotely competitive and have yet to learn a lot of things about competitive playing.

 

* Blastoise @ leftovers

Ability: Torrent

EVs: 252 def, 234 hp, 20 speed

Nature: Bold

-Scald

-Rapid Spin

-Roar

-Ice Beam

 

He goes in first, tries to burn the occasional leading Gyarados and/or roars him away to prevent setting up; can do the same with entry hazards and drought Ninetales, but in the latter case he has to pay attention to solar beam. Perfect counter to Arcanine IMO. Also it's the only rapid spinner of the team.

Ice Beam can't quite OHKO Dragonite but it can still be useful, I'm thinking of replacing it with Toxic though

 

* Roserade @ black sludge/leftovers

Ability: Natural Cure

EVs: 252 spdef, 236 hp, 20 speed

Nature: Calm

-Shadow Ball

-Giga Drain

-Toxic Spikes

-Stun Spore / Sleep Powder

 

Special defensive wall, can spread status and spikes. Giga Drain is the STAB move and with the HP leech makes Synthesis a bit redundant IMO. I chose Shadow Ball as secondary coverage move because I've found that if I switch her in to Gengars that try to attack with Sludge Bomb/Shadow Ball she can take those hits very well and OHKO Gengar in response. Very dangerous if said gengars chooses to use Psychic though

 

* Clefable @ leftovers

Ability: Unaware

EVs: 238 def, 244 hp, 28 speed

Nature: Bold

-Moonblast

-Calm Mind

-Heal Bell

-Moonlight

 

Unaware is not working yet...anyway, my cleric, makes for a good dragon slayer, once Unaware will work she will be able to tank Belly Drum Azumarill as well. Thiking about switching from the calm mind setup to Wish + Protect once they will work properly. In the meantime, he can set up against stallers and then hit hard with her STAB move.

 

* Gengar @ spell tag

Ability: Levitate

EVs: 252 speed, 252 special attack

Nature: Timid

-Will-o-Wisp

-Taunt

-Sludge Bomb

-Shadow Ball

 

31 IV speed timid Gengar, quite standard Special sweeper. Will-o-wisp is a great utility move; Taunt can be useful to break stall teams, but I'm thinking of replacing it with Thunderbolt for better coverage and chance of revenge killing water pokemons

 

* Dragonite @ dragon fang / razor claw

Ability: Multiscale

EVs: 252 attack, 252 speed

Nature: Adamant

-Roost

-Outrage

-Dragon Dance

-Fire Punch

 

I find that Roost have very good synergy with multiscale ability, even though in practical terms this means Iosing Extreme Speed. Fire Punch is because I have no other moves to kill Scizor in my team: Scizor can't really hurt dragonite much until he is fully set up, and gets OHKOed by Fire Punch in return.

 

 

 

I previously had an Adamant No Guard Machamp as 6th pokemon but I felt he was not bonding up very good with the rest of the team.

So far, I've found myself to be quite vulnerable to Alakazam, because he outspeeds my Gengar and I have no proper check for him. Also, Belly Drum Azumarill can wreck my team since Clefable can't tank him atm.

A pokemon that could manage both of them could be a strong priority-move user with no weaknesses to them, such as Scizor. This would make my team quite vulnerable to fire though.

What do you think?

[Kansu]

Hello, very neat team even thought you said you have a lot to learn, its obvious you at least did your homework :) I'll comment on each pokemon and then see what we can do to unite the team and find a last member. :) Disclaimer: all of this is 100% my opinion and involves the tier list I made with my personal experience and knowledge.

 

Blastoise -> Very cool pokemon and I like the set. Would totally keep Ice beam, as it will kill Garchomp, Dragonite which are top tier and also to an extend Salamence and some others. Water+Ice gives very good neutral coverage as well. You can also spam Scald to get burns so toxic is less needed. I doubt using him as a lead is the best choice thought.

 

Roserade -> This pokemon is strong but I'm not quite sure about this set. However, thats just how I feel because I don't actually have that much experience with Roserade so take my adivce with a grain of salt on this. I guess you got inspiration from this set on Smogon, but due to some major difference between the metagames, I don't think this special wall set is really useful on PRO.

 

There are very few special attackers in this metagame, and the mains that I think of one will still 2HKO this roserade with their stab psychic moves (starmie and mew). Yes you are right thought if you have problem fighting Gengar rose will help. Obviously this set would be better against very annoying Milotic and Slowbro that are rampant on every team, but I think any roserade can challenge them. If I were to run a defensive set, I think I would go with full defense for kabutops (this guy is unknown but probably one of the greatest sweepers in the tier with rain)/machamp/azumarill and physical attackers in general. On a defensive set I'd use Rest aswell, since rose can switch out and wake up. Also, I'm quite positive Extrasensory does Shadow ball's job and has much better coverage, hitting the likes Breloom, Machamp and Venusaur super effictively.

 

However, I'd probably personnally run Roserade Max speed as a lead instead. Something like this:

 

Roserade@Leftovers

Leaf Storm/Giga Drain

Sludge Bomb/Extrasensory

Sleep Powder

Spikes

 

Clefable -> Extremely good and underrated, Clefable will be S+ tier with Unaware and now its already really good. It is one of the only pokemon that can answer the biggest threat in this metagame: Garchomp. Clefable takes +2 Earthquake and laughs at dragon claw. This set will give you a win condition and sweep unprepared teams, especially the popular stall teams. Definetly keep this in your core.

 

Gengar -> this gengar set is just ridiculous. It counters the entire wall meta and Taunt is mandatory. However, I think Black Sludge is far superior.

 

Dragonite -> well that guy does not need any comments hehe. Except maybe Leftovers to keep Multiscale in sand and when switching into very weak moves like grass moves or Lum Berry for status.

 

So you have a very nice bulky offensive core with Dragonite and Clefable. They're both really well supported by Blastoise which also takes steel and ice attacks. I'm not 100% sold on Roserade and Gengar synergy with the rest of the team, althought they have very good typing synergy. At first glance, Scizor seems like an excellent fit to the team, since you don't have priority. However you lack a talonflame counter so we have to check on that (Blastoise won't last long enough). Anyway, lets see what your core can do.

 

For the sakes of teambuilding, I always recommend starting with a core so lets say Dragonite+Clefable is your core (the core is flexible and can be shifted completly at any time, its just a point of start for the team). Blastoise is a good support and will do its job of removing hazards, so lets assume we keep it. Here are some of the things those 3 with struggle against. (Only in the first tiers)

 

With Roserade and Gengar, your team wouldn't be bad but I just feel like you struggle to find an identity between Offense and Balance. If you want to keep them because you like them then don't hesitate, you can build a team around that, but if you want to improve your team further I would consider replacing one or both. I feel like they are a bit reduntant with each other too since they are both special attackers (gengar will beat blissey thought). Those two are somewhat offensive but don't put enough pressure, and roserade can't really be considered as a wall. If you were to pick Offense as your play style, you would need more offensive pressure in your 3 pokemon. Pokemon that can hit hard right off the bat (Weavile comes to mind). Hazards with Offense is very good, especially stealth rock to help against Talonflame which kinda counters Offense with its priority. If you pick Balance (you can also go stall but I feel like you prefer a bit of offense seeing your original team), then some more obnoxious wall pokemon could be added (looking at you Ferrothorn, Skarmory, Blissey).

 

Tyranitar -> Sand will hurt Dragonite especially since its lacking Earthquake.

Excadrill -> Excadrill piles throught Dragnite and Clefable in sand, but blastoise can have a good shot at stoping it.

Slowbro -> Clefable can wall it easily and will win the calm mind war but it can be annoying by repeatedly switching in and out.

Talonflame -> Similarly, you can take his attacks but it can switch out and break your walls eventually. Stealth Rock would fix that problem.

Starmie*

Mew*

Togekiss*

Breloom

Magnezone*

Azumarill

Skarmory -> Walls your three pokes to death, unless maybe miracle crit/burns from fire punch.

 

* (Fast) Special attackers are clearly a problem, which is why Calm Roserade would make sense, but as we can see she can't do this job that well. Starmie, Mew, Togekiss and Magnezone can all deal with her easily. Breloom and Azumarill are both beaten by Grass types too so its definetly something to look into.

 

I'll stop for now until you reply and pick a playstyle. Then I can help you further to choose the right pokemon.

 

See ya!

Kansu

[Ale29]

Hey, first of all, thanks for your answer!

I'll expand a bit onto why I chose those pokemons:

 

- To be honest, I'm not 100% sold on Roserade as well. It seems a bit too situational as of now. The main reason I picked it, it's because I felt I needed some special defense and was lucky enough to find a Budew with right nature / ability and high SPATK and SPDEF IVs almost at the first try. Anyway, right now it has something like 340 spdef so it's not that bad at all; problem is, its typing is not very favorable to do that particular job: among special attackers, Ice, Fire and Psychic moves are particularly common and she is weak to all of them.

I wanted some special bulk in my team because, even though it's a very physical meta right now, I feel that once choice and orbs will be added this will somewhat change and mixed/special attackers will be much more common. I wanted to build something looking at the long term.

All that said, I'm still not 100% convinced about Roserade

 

- I like Gengar, I feel it's one of the most effective special sweepers around and gives great utility with will-o-wisp. Also, I chose him because I like in particular movesets involving Hex and status spreading (hence why I chose Roserade as well), which is not working right now, but I think I'll shift to it once it will and lose Shadow Ball maybe.

 

So let's say I'd keep Gengar and we could replace Roserade with something else.

Now, I will need to get an entry hazard pokemon (preferably with Stealth Rock to hurt Talonflame and such) and something to deal with water/ice pokemons which will be very dangerous to Dragonite. Also something with priority moves to check fast, frail attackers

 

I'm not looking for a stall team at all, I'd like an overall balanced team gravitating toward offense if that makes sense

[Kansu]

Right! So we will have an offensive team including Gengar. Exactly as you said, you need a stealth rock user, a special defense wall (you were not wrong about Roserade). Then a very hard hitting wallbreaker that can beat Skarmory 1v1. You also have to cover Azumarill and Breloom (a grass type can take spore). Always keep in mind that if its really needed, you can shift stealth rocks to clefable as she is a very good setter, but of course you lose heal bell or calm mind.

 

Basically, if we get to the point, you have two choices: Blissey or no Blissey. Shes crazy good and will fit your balanced team, but I'd understand if you don't want her due to her reputation. Two pink blobs might be too much as well. Similarly but more offensive, CurseLax can be nice, and will work well with Clefable (rest+bell) and Dragonite.

 

Garchomp Swords Dance + Stealth rocks can offer fast hazards (really good lead) and break walls for dragonite and clefable to sweep later. Fire Blast garchomp and Defensive garchomp also should be considered. -> you sound weak to Ice but it can be manageable, as long as you have a switch-in to things like Weavile and bulky waters.

 

Scizor will offer wall breaking with Lum berry + swords dance and/or Knock off as well as priority.

 

Defensive Tyranitar would work well on your team, as it can set up stealth rock and wall/kill most special attackers. (Togekiss don't carry fairy move, Starmie does not ohko and dies to Crunch if no scald burn). If you want to go for sand team, Excadrill Swords dance would also synergize well with your team.

 

Breloom can do good things with various sets, especially special defense + poison heal + swords dance can mess walls up pretty hard. (Poison heal wont work well with heal bell thought).

 

Timid Roserade might be fast enough to set up hazards and actually beats most spinners... I don't know anything about her lead matchups thought. Would require further testing or theorycrafting.

 

Talonflame is very good on most teams with spinner. (but the most expensive pokemon and for good reason)

 

Mew / celebi if you can get them would find a fit on this team :-)

 

Tangrowth? Other grass types?

[Ale29]

Right, I'd avoid Blissey if possible.

 

I like the idea of a lead Garchomp with stealth rock (maybe a mixed attacker with Fire Blast).

 

Also I randomly got this Bulbasaur, could that possibly make for a bulky PHYSICAL Venusaur? (something like leech seed - sleep powder - petal blizzard - earthquake?)

I know that Venusaur is usually a Special Attacker and with this nature it doesn't really make a special wall, but suprise factor could play in my favor and should make for a good Azumarill counter.

This, on the other hand, would leave my team extremely vulnerable to Ice, even though Weavile is not a problem since I have Clefable.

I'm without an Alakazam check as well?

[Kansu]

Personnally Ive never seen an Alakazam on this server so I dont think you should worry about him (not until LO+ magic guard work). Venusaur could work but Petal blizzard not ideal, pretty sure it can learn seed bomb.

[Ale29]

He can learn seed bomb, but, according to Smogon, it has 10 power less than petal blizzard without any secondary effect (80 vs 90 base power).

Hell, he can even learn swords dance and outrage lol.

 

So:

-Garchomp lead, fast entry hazard, with fire blast for Skarmory maybe

-Blastoise Spinner

-Dragonite + Clefable core

-Gengar special sweeper

-Bulky physical Venusaur to counter Azumarill

 

An interesting alternative could be your support Tyranitar idea, because it would act as a special def wall, a wallbreaker and an entry hazard at the same time, along with psychic immunity which would be useful for my team.

Problems are, Tyranitar is quite slow (maybe not that much of a problem) and, if I choose to use him, I'd be even more vulnerable to Azumarill than before. So, a bulky grass type like Venusaur or Tangrowth becomes crucial and this leaves out the opportunity of using Excadrill to synergize with Tyranitar

 

 

EDIT: an alternative set for Venusaur could be

 

Venusaur @ leftovers

- Leech Seed / Syntesis

- Swords Dance

- Petal Blizzard

- Earthquake

[Kansu]

Thing is Petal Blizzard, if I recall correctly, does like Outrage and you cant stop/switch out after using and get confused. Swords dance looks cool too but you have to keep leech seed imo (best way to know is to simply test the various sets, in any case go full defense/hp evs). Team looks good tbh but you will have a hard time against Togekiss and pokemon with more than 110 speed (weavile/talonflame/starmie). :)

 

Its sad to say (I dont like ferro) but I feel like special defense Ferro > Venusaur would solve those problems bar talonflame :/

[Ale29]

I can counter Weavile with Clefable.

What about Ferrothorn + Tyranitar? With hazard / tanky ferro I won't desperately need stealth rock from Garchomp anymore, and Tyranitar would fit better to stack up against Talonflame. I could even run a Stealth rock + spikes team.

[Kansu]

just make sure you use Softboiled and not moonlight especially with tyranitar :y: