Shadow Tag Voting

[Diloks]

PLIZ BAN THIS . is borring , i'm borred :devil: :Angel:

[Jingkoo88]

Vote=Ban

https://i.imgur.com/51S0ixh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/y72V19Z.jpg

when i use politoed me sure lose one Pokemon when Gothitelle is sent into battle on a pokemon it can set up on.

when i use some pokemon tank like blissey/ferrossed Gothitelle to set up Calm Minds on each Pokemon is very long which makes battles dull and time-consuming. (i experience the most waste time is 30minit on my ferrossed)

it is difficult to know whether your opponent has a Gothitelle so you are not given a chance to play around it.

Even though Gothitelle can easily be revenge-killed, it can easily switch out to a counter. Especially with the lack of Pursuit.

[Shroooomish]

https://gyazo.com/b051ea24bc7c8c05f4105db5e3f87d47

 

I'm voting ban

 

It's hard to know whether the opponent has one and you can't plan around it.The time it takes for it to stack up calm minds and rest is just long, boring and makes you want to just not even bother playing pvp. Shadow tag is just broken on Gothitelle!

[Kevinlus]

I think Shadow Tag should be banned :banned:

because if your poke is not threatening to them,them must take the field,

and use Calm Mind and Rest until their SPATK and SPDEF raise 6 times,it would let this game boring,and spend long time.

So I think Shadow Tag should be banned.

[Sergeants25]

My Vote = Dont band

Because Banning Shadow Tag will increase the amount of stall teams even im not use gothi

 

 

[Kidokiller]

i vote banned

 

the problem is/are, there is no team preview here in pro and also a lot of moves, items not yet available, and abilities not yet coded like unaware.

[Ikouts]

 

I vote for banning shadow tag ability. The reason is that gothitelle can trap a pokemon and start boosting for half an hour until the user is satisfied with the boost and the amount of hp left. Even though some players say that gothi can be easily revenge killed by weavile crawdaunt and bisharp not all of us carry one of them on our teams. Even if we have one of them on our team opponent can easily switch into a counter. In my opinion thats not the competitive spirit that most of the players who pvp want. So ill vote for ban.thank you!!!

[Sitzei]

 

AFTER YOU READ THAT U WILL UNDERSTAND WHY I VOTE TO BAN SHADOW TAG

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A competitive game is played to win - this is what distinguishes what we do here from playing on your cartridge. A competitive game should have winners, but they should not be arbitrary or random - instead, we would like if the winner of a game was determined by the skill of the players involved. Now, skill in Pokemon is not like an athletic event...you can't get more damage out of your moves by working out or something. Every player has complete access to the exact same set of moves and information. So skill in Pokemon is about choices. Every time you build a team or choose a move you are making a series of choices, and a better player shows his skill by making the better choices. This is what it means to be "competitive" in terms of Pokemon.

So, my definition: A competitive game element increases the number of meaningful, balanced choices available to the player.

Meaningful: if a choice has little or no impact on the game, it isn't particularly relevant (i.e. you can choose the gender of your pokemon but that has nearly zero effect).

Balanced: if a single option is so powerful/good/useful as to be the "correct" choice most/all of the time, it isn't much of a choice at all.

 

I think this definition has several benefits over the one you've offered. First is that you cite the notion of "unfairness", but this is incredibly subjective and almost impossible to define. On the other hand, it is - while not 100% straightforward - much easier to analyze the ability of a game element to affect the choices available to battlers. Also, it's tough to see how anything can be "unfair" in Pokemon at all, since every battler has equal access to and ability to use every game element.

I also think that "something they can't inflict on their opponent in return" is a very poor marker of competitiveness. Reciprocity implies fairness, but not competitiveness. For example, Rock-Paper-Scissors is completely reciprocal, but the limited pool of choices makes it unattractive as a competitive game. A less extreme example might be checkers, which has reciprocity (outside of first-move advantage) but is strategically shallow enough that it has been solved by computers (something that will never be the case for Pokemon).

Finally, I think centering the discussion on the amount of choices available to a player is beneficial because it gets to the core of what competitiveness is. Applying such a definition to other bans: something like Swagger reduces the number of choices (by about half) by ensuring that about half of the time, your attempt to make a move does nothing (and is actually detrimental). Meanwhile, Moody makes your choices far less meaningful because the Moody Pokemon will gain a boost at the end of every turn independent of your choice, meaning the best strategy is one of neutralization (stalling and negating opposing choices in order to passively rack up stat boosts). This is a good explanation for why these past bans are uncompetitive.

 

Applying this definition to Shadow Tag, it seems clear that the ability can only ever remove the number of choices available to you Pokemon is not a series of 1v1 matchups, it is a 6v6 team game, but STag reduces it to the former.

[Ka1er]

i VOTE TO BAN SHADOW TAG

Reason : i dont like it xD

[Adm1ral]

 

BAN shadow tag :n:

I vote ban cuz theres so much time will be waste due to only one poke. Also we dont have a team preview here so it is so hard to know what team your going to face. Yes we can definitely revenge kill it but he could have change it into a good answer for the switch. If you you have shadow tag its sure GG at almost all the times. (If you know how to ise it) :thanks: