Manaphy in ranked PVP

[Ta7esh]

Rain in all its glory has no contest because:

 

-many abusers (Swift Swim, Rain Dish, Dry Skin, Hydration)

-most abusers are water type, so they get an extra x1.5 to their already STAB water attacks,

-so Swift Swimmers essentially have a +1 to water attacks and +2 to speed in rain

-no miss Thunder and Hurricane

-fire attacks' base power reduced by 50%, making steel, especially 4x fire-weak steels like Ferrothorn and Scizor, excellent teammates

[Baganha]

Exactly in fact I mean both of what youve stated. Manaphy is annoying with rain however the core problem here is " Rain " and it is hard to counter it because it has natural type advantage, gives STAB to one of the most versatile typings, and has some of the best ability benefits (Hydration, Swift Swim, Dry Skin) along with a ton of viable pokemon to use it with.

 

While other teams are easier to deal with, Sand ? just use a ground type of the beginning and hit earthquake u can definitely take it off and once he switches to Exca the user can change safely to ferro etc... but with rain there are no real safe switches Kingdra's typing as dragon and water with the move Ice beam it can take down anything other than the other rain pokes that can be used as a backup.

 

Sun team is the easiest just use a heatran or a volcarona you can take down everything easily.

 

Thus Rain team is OP + Manaphy and Tail glow its just an unacceptable.

 

Youre not being very fair to the other weather's at all, saying just use eq to deal with sand is ridiculous, the same can be said for rain then, just use electric move on pelipper and its all good, also ferro isnt really a switchin to excadrill at all, adamant +2 soft sand eq does 75% min to max def ferro and the best it can do is leash off a power whip or lecch seed + tect, either way hes getting about 60% at best hp off of drill, not countering it at all.

 

How does volcarona deal with sun at all? Volc gets ohkod by entei banded sacred fire and darm's scarf flare blitz, not to mention that heatrani is definitely easy to deal with between these same pokemon's coverage with stomping tantrum and superpower respectively.

 

Kingdra does have safe switchins to it, chansey is probably the best, spdef ferro actually deals with it, unlike excadrill, and even options such as av azu, slowking, mew and mantine are all good examples

Edited February 26, 2019 by Baganha

[Baganha]

Rain in all its glory has no contest because:

 

-many abusers (Swift Swim, Rain Dish, Dry Skin, Hydration)

-most abusers are water type, so they get an extra x1.5 to their already STAB water attacks,

-so Swift Swimmers essentially have a +1 to water attacks and +2 to speed in rain

-no miss Thunder and Hurricane

-fire attacks' base power reduced by 50%, making steel, especially 4x fire-weak steels like Ferrothorn and Scizor, excellent teammates

 

 

You saying rain's secondary effects doesnt really make them more broken, everyone is aware of all of this. Just like sand and sun have it as well. I do agree that rain is the best weather but im not gonna write my opinion again ( you can check out prior convos if you want to see it).

[Imtrippin]

In my opinion that yes Rain teams are being over used lately and its a bit of frustrating since it has 0 strategy except for setting the weather and sweeping.

 

Yes you can counter it but it will be definitely be annoying however, Manaphy isnt that of a deal i always take it with gyarados draining its hp to half or a bit more and out-speeding it with Mamo earthquake

 

K, so first of all...

 

"and out-speeding it with Mamo earthquake" Scarf Mamoswine next scarf togekiss, great invention by the PRO community which is just as good :DDDDDDDDDD.

And to all of you who think the problem is in rain; rain sucks, get over it. I would never use rain unless if it was to examine how many people would be trash enough to actually lose to it without getting haxed to death (or just hyper offense users with lacking ways to deal with rain).

 

Now as I probably said before, the problem with manaphy is that it forces you to centralize your team building around it and once people start abusing it. Even if it is rare now you just get 1v6 swept by it unless you predict your opponent with your faster soft checks like latios (if your team isn't prepared for it that is). Obviously every team has some weaknesses but all it takes is for a good player to use it while laddering and the low ladder goons will follow and it'll end in a boring meta full of stall/semi stall (people who want to stall it out with pp and weaken it with hazards), semi stall and a bunch of rain users who just want to click click click and get rating with manaphy. The few players who don't follow the norm will just have to take the L more often just because of how the meta sucks for their favourite archeotypes. This is the worst case scenario. I'm not stupid enough to think that every noob will start spamming Manaphy rain or stall just to win but it will definately get a lot more common and I can see another idiot make a thread called "Ban chansey, it counters my entire manaphy rain team and is not balanced".

 

So the conclusion is that Manaphy is the issue and not rain. If you're that scared of rain and want to run offense you can always run chansey offense even if it's really lame. It's been a thing on the showdown ladder for a while. Balanced teams can also just run a few walls to cover rain abusers so there aren't really any well built teams that lose to it except hyper offense which also can be somewhat adapted to face rain with. Ever since team preview has been a thing and the weather bug got fixed (I think?) we have all the tools needed to beat rain. Also, even if you do think rain is the problem, is your solution to ban an entire playstyle? No, and problems like these have been fixed time and time again in different games, battle simulators. From what I've seen rain has never been a problem. Sadly there will always be people who cry for no reason because they simply don't know how to deal with an archeotype :(

 

Edit: Leave things be for a while and if people do start using Manaphy more frequently then it should be up for discussion on wether it deserves a ban or not among the ladder players (as even in the top 25 on both servers there are bad players, low ladder should not partake in decisions regarding bans. Omw to bump the pvp council thread).

[Dinou]

OH NOoo!! RAIN IS BROKEN AND MANAPHY TOO :C RAIN IS SO UNDERRATED, WITH HIS STRONK ABUSERS!!! BAN IT!!

Yes, i agree manaphy is kind of broken mon in this meta, and it should be banned.

About rain, why everytime you have to come forum and crying about how "stronk" is it, why you can't just be prepared for this weather team knowing it's "broken", its broken only for players , who always going to ban anything to they lose, complaining about how underrated is it. But yeah, rain is so broken!!!! If we can't beat then it's deserve the ban, good players always had answer to rain, so please, just stop crying about it and play with prepared team, who doenst lose to such a broken weather!!! :((

 

Oh yea, shedinja best manaphy counter :kred:

[Baganha]

 

Oh yea, shedinja best manaphy counter :kred:

 

until you face the one in a million hp fire manaphy!!!!

[Dinou]

until you face the one in a million hp fire manaphy!!!!

Pretty sad that our high iq cant realise differences between sarcastic and truth, but thats it :)

[Ta7esh]

K, so first of all... [ATTACH=full]68162[/ATTACH]

 

"and out-speeding it with Mamo earthquake" Scarf Mamoswine next scarf togekiss, great invention by the PRO community which is just as good :DDDDDDDDDD.

And to all of you who think the problem is in rain; rain sucks, get over it. I would never use rain unless if it was to examine how many people would be trash enough to actually lose to it without getting haxed to death (or just hyper offense users with lacking ways to deal with rain).

 

Now as I probably said before, the problem with manaphy is that it forces you to centralize your team building around it and once people start abusing it. Even if it is rare now you just get 1v6 swept by it unless you predict your opponent with your faster soft checks like latios (if your team isn't prepared for it that is). Obviously every team has some weaknesses but all it takes is for a good player to use it while laddering and the low ladder goons will follow and it'll end in a boring meta full of stall/semi stall (people who want to stall it out with pp and weaken it with hazards), semi stall and a bunch of rain users who just want to click click click and get rating with manaphy. The few players who don't follow the norm will just have to take the L more often just because of how the meta sucks for their favourite archeotypes. This is the worst case scenario. I'm not stupid enough to think that every noob will start spamming Manaphy rain or stall just to win but it will definately get a lot more common and I can see another idiot make a thread called "Ban chansey, it counters my entire manaphy rain team and is not balanced".

 

So the conclusion is that Manaphy is the issue and not rain. If you're that scared of rain and want to run offense you can always run chansey offense even if it's really lame. It's been a thing on the showdown ladder for a while. Balanced teams can also just run a few walls to cover rain abusers so there aren't really any well built teams that lose to it except hyper offense which also can be somewhat adapted to face rain with. Ever since team preview has been a thing and the weather bug got fixed (I think?) we have all the tools needed to beat rain. Also, even if you do think rain is the problem, is your solution to ban an entire playstyle? No, and problems like these have been fixed time and time again in different games, battle simulators. From what I've seen rain has never been a problem. Sadly there will always be people who cry for no reason because they simply don't know how to deal with an archeotype :(

 

Edit: Leave things be for a while and if people do start using Manaphy more frequently then it should be up for discussion on wether it deserves a ban or not among the ladder players (as even in the top 25 on both servers there are bad players, low ladder should not partake in decisions regarding bans. Omw to bump the pvp council thread).

 

I didnt get your comment regarding mamos speed? and Scarfed Mamo is for ada nt jolly inorder to hit Max attack.

 

And im nt into banning anything, its the total opposite im stating that Manaphy can be countered.

 

Moreover i was trying to clarify the difference between Manaphy with rain and without Rain I was trying to understand which one is the main problem.

 

Each weather has its own pros and cons but surely rain is the best.

 

Finally, I disagree with you about who should state their opinions regardless of the rating and just fyi I am currently mid half Pvper ladder with 199 rating stopped 2 days ago pvping cause of lack of game time. But my point is; its rude to neglect peoples opinion and freedom of speech.

[Ta7esh]

Youre not being very fair to the other weather's at all, saying just use eq to deal with sand is ridiculous, the same can be said for rain then, just use electric move on pelipper and its all good, also ferro isnt really a switchin to excadrill at all, adamant +2 soft sand eq does 75% min to max def ferro and the best it can do is leash off a power whip or lecch seed + tect, either way hes getting about 60% at best hp off of drill, not countering it at all.

 

How does volcarona deal with sun at all? Volc gets ohkod by entei banded sacred fire and darm's scarf flare blitz, not to mention that heatrani is definitely easy to deal with between these same pokemon's coverage with stomping tantrum and superpower respectively.

 

Kingdra does have safe switchins to it, chansey is probably the best, spdef ferro actually deals with it, unlike excadrill, and even options such as av azu, slowking, mew and mantine are all good examples

Volcarona with 1-2 Quiver dance at the beginning infront of ninetails or Torkoal ( in the abscence of yawn ) can deal enough damage to take out entei and the whole team Ive tried it before or atleast creating a big gap.

 

Chansey is the only counter maybe to Rain team, but yea it can be dealt with yet even electric typing cant directly deal with them. even if he started with pelipper there is no way he wont switch in for another pokemon if he was facing an electric pokemon.

 

As agreed pokemon is overall balanced and nything can be countered with the right strategy

[Pokemonisfun]

I think there is almost no point in discussing this, all top ladder player right now are using balance and HO teams, nobody is using rain there is no need to ban either rain or manaphy.