Manaphy in ranked PVP

[Imtrippin]

HAHA

 

No. If you don't have a single * clue about anything pvp related then you should not partake in decisions regarding what's best for the pvp in a game. Unless you either have laddered on showdown or in PRO then your opinion is completely worthless no matter how you twist it. That goes for any pvp discussion in any pokemon game. Why would anyone care about an opinion of someone who literally can't get ladder in a game where there are only a handful of players who know what they're doing. That's why if you don't enjoy the boring meta and competetive spirit of this game you can prove yourself worthy to make decisions based on showdown laddering experiance. Also, below 300 would be considered low ladder imo, maybe even below 350. Literally anyone can get ladder in this game no matter how bad they are in this game which is the sad truth. There was one terrible guy for example who managed to get a spot after wasting his life on playing 1.8k games in a month which proves my point about not even every ladder player knows what they're doing and just click click click. If you haven't proved your ability to pvp then you can obviously speak your mind but it has no place in the actual discussion between those who actually want to improve the game and know how to do so. But that is another discussion in a thread called PVP Council.

 

Also, you made several responses about how rain is unfair.

 

"Im stating that the main problem is with rain not with Manaphy. "

 

"Exactly in fact I mean both of what youve stated. Manaphy is annoying with rain however the core problem here is " Rain "

 

"

Rain in all its glory has no contest because:

 

-many abusers (Swift Swim, Rain Dish, Dry Skin, Hydration)

-most abusers are water type, so they get an extra x1.5 to their already STAB water attacks,

-so Swift Swimmers essentially have a +1 to water attacks and +2 to speed in rain

-no miss Thunder and Hurricane

-fire attacks' base power reduced by 50%, making steel, especially 4x fire-weak steels like Ferrothorn and Scizor, excellent teammates "

 

XDDDDDDDD

 

Oh and "I didnt get your comment regarding mamos speed? and Scarfed Mamo is for ada nt jolly inorder to hit Max attack. " just no. Do not do that unless you are bad and want to lose / give free rating to others.

 

If you want to reply trying to show what an actual problem is and why, give legitimate reasons to why and not obvious cons about it that a baby can see and make replace false statements with true.

 

"Chansey is the only counter maybe to Rain team, but yea it can be dealt with yet even electric typing cant directly deal with them. even if he started with pelipper there is no way he wont switch in for another pokemon if he was facing an electric pokemon. "

 

So first you say Chansey is the only counter to rain which is false. There's ferrothorn, tangrowth, rotom-wash, weather changes, gastrodon, amoonguss, breloom. But then you also contradict yourself.

 

Last but not least, pokemon is not necessarily balanced all the time. Wether it is balanced right now in this game can be discussed. That's what this thread is for. But just look at different showdown tiers and how they always ban things depending on the meta with zygarde in OU as one of the most recent bans. A meta in pokemon needs to be balanced after bans and it has always needed that. In this game this was sadly never the case and which is why monsters like Bisharp without team preview, Talonflame, Dugtrio(arena trap), Gothitelle (shadow tag), Blaziken (speed boost) and now Manaphy. Luckily they have dealt with all these mons in some way, but some of the changes took way too long time. My point is, do not be ignorant and think that pokemon always is balanced.

[Baganha]

Volcarona with 1-2 Quiver dance at the beginning infront of ninetails or Torkoal ( in the abscence of yawn ) can deal enough damage to take out entei and the whole team Ive tried it before or atleast creating a big gap.

 

Chansey is the only counter maybe to Rain team, but yea it can be dealt with yet even electric typing cant directly deal with them. even if he started with pelipper there is no way he wont switch in for another pokemon if he was facing an electric pokemon.

 

As agreed pokemon is overall balanced and nything can be countered with the right strategy

 

Just like a pelipper wouldnt stay in front of an electric type, the same would be from a torkoal/ninetales to a volcarona, letting it setup qds if youre not hypnosis/yawn/roar is just and im sorry for the vulgar expression, plain stupid. Again you're using anecdotes with "Ive tried it before" to prove your point on a general topic, that is worthless information that should easily be neglected.

 

Chansey is definitely NOT the only counter to rain as basic balance cores between chansey/phys def tang or options like tentacruel, mantine, slowking are all great against rain, ive told this before, i dont know why you're ingnoring it.

[Baganha]

I think there is almost no point in discussing this, all top ladder player right now are using balance and HO teams, nobody is using rain there is no need to ban either rain or manaphy.

 

Mind if i ask you were you got this information from? or is it just personal experience? regardless, nothing should be considered balanced/not broken just because its usage is low, if a pokemon has very little counterplay and is potentially unhealthy for the meta, it doesnt matter that few people are using it. Just like when lando-I got banned from oras OU, its usage wasnt stellar by any means (i believe it was around 3 to 6%) but it was still considered to be broken in the OU tier and eventually banned from it.

 

PS: Are you pif from showdown/smogon?

[Ta7esh]

Just like a pelipper wouldnt stay in front of an electric type, the same would be from a torkoal/ninetales to a volcarona, letting it setup qds if youre not hypnosis/yawn/roar is just and im sorry for the vulgar expression, plain stupid. Again you're using anecdotes with "Ive tried it before" to prove your point on a general topic, that is worthless information that should easily be neglected.

 

Chansey is definitely NOT the only counter to rain as basic balance cores between chansey/phys def tang or options like tentacruel, mantine, slowking are all great against rain, ive told this before, i dont know why you're ingnoring it.

 

Yes i get your point regarding other rain encounters... we lost the point of the debate here.

 

using anecdotes is to create some kind of credibility.

 

Have a good day

[Ta7esh]

HAHA

 

No. If you don't have a single * clue about anything pvp related then you should not partake in decisions regarding what's best for the pvp in a game. Unless you either have laddered on showdown or in PRO then your opinion is completely worthless no matter how you twist it. That goes for any pvp discussion in any pokemon game. Why would anyone care about an opinion of someone who literally can't get ladder in a game where there are only a handful of players who know what they're doing. That's why if you don't enjoy the boring meta and competetive spirit of this game you can prove yourself worthy to make decisions based on showdown laddering experiance. Also, below 300 would be considered low ladder imo, maybe even below 350. Literally anyone can get ladder in this game no matter how bad they are in this game which is the sad truth. There was one terrible guy for example who managed to get a spot after wasting his life on playing 1.8k games in a month which proves my point about not even every ladder player knows what they're doing and just click click click. If you haven't proved your ability to pvp then you can obviously speak your mind but it has no place in the actual discussion between those who actually want to improve the game and know how to do so. But that is another discussion in a thread called PVP Council.

 

Also, you made several responses about how rain is unfair.

 

"Im stating that the main problem is with rain not with Manaphy. "

 

"Exactly in fact I mean both of what youve stated. Manaphy is annoying with rain however the core problem here is " Rain "

 

"

Rain in all its glory has no contest because:

 

-many abusers (Swift Swim, Rain Dish, Dry Skin, Hydration)

-most abusers are water type, so they get an extra x1.5 to their already STAB water attacks,

-so Swift Swimmers essentially have a +1 to water attacks and +2 to speed in rain

-no miss Thunder and Hurricane

-fire attacks' base power reduced by 50%, making steel, especially 4x fire-weak steels like Ferrothorn and Scizor, excellent teammates "

 

XDDDDDDDD

 

Oh and "I didnt get your comment regarding mamos speed? and Scarfed Mamo is for ada nt jolly inorder to hit Max attack. " just no. Do not do that unless you are bad and want to lose / give free rating to others.

 

If you want to reply trying to show what an actual problem is and why, give legitimate reasons to why and not obvious cons about it that a baby can see and make replace false statements with true.

 

"Chansey is the only counter maybe to Rain team, but yea it can be dealt with yet even electric typing cant directly deal with them. even if he started with pelipper there is no way he wont switch in for another pokemon if he was facing an electric pokemon. "

 

So first you say Chansey is the only counter to rain which is false. There's ferrothorn, tangrowth, rotom-wash, weather changes, gastrodon, amoonguss, breloom. But then you also contradict yourself.

 

Last but not least, pokemon is not necessarily balanced all the time. Wether it is balanced right now in this game can be discussed. That's what this thread is for. But just look at different showdown tiers and how they always ban things depending on the meta with zygarde in OU as one of the most recent bans. A meta in pokemon needs to be balanced after bans and it has always needed that. In this game this was sadly never the case and which is why monsters like Bisharp without team preview, Talonflame, Dugtrio(arena trap), Gothitelle (shadow tag), Blaziken (speed boost) and now Manaphy. Luckily they have dealt with all these mons in some way, but some of the changes took way too long time. My point is, do not be ignorant and think that pokemon always is balanced.

 

Well this is your opinion and if your that easy to ladder up im waiting to see you in top 5 atleast.

 

And if you havent tried a certain strategy like Mamo with scarf why are you even discussing it. anywyayz we are out of topic.

 

I would like to debate with you some other day only if you take things more seriously.

 

Have a good day

[Baganha]

Yes i get your point regarding other rain encounters... we lost the point of the debate here.

 

using anecdotes is to create some kind of credibility.

 

Have a good day

 

The problem with anecdotes is that there isnt much credibility from them to begin with, you can say "ive never lost to a team with manaphy" but what exactly does that bring to this discussion? We dont know how skilled your opponents were, if they had a good set, if they had a pvpable manaphy, or even if you're telling the truth (not saying you werent but you understand my point). Its a very shady argument that cannot be taken with a lot of weight.

[Imtrippin]

Well this is your opinion and if your that easy to ladder up im waiting to see you in top 5 atleast.

 

And if you havent tried a certain strategy like Mamo with scarf why are you even discussing it. anywyayz we are out of topic.

 

I would like to debate with you some other day only if you take things more seriously.

 

Have a good day

 

Sure, I might try in summer when I try out this game again unless I get bored as usual. I have nothing to prove as a player but I'll make sure to hit you up if the meta is fun enough to play in so I can try laddering once. And no, don't ever run scarf Mamoswine, it's just bad. There are reasons to why you are at 200 rating and that might be one of them.

[Docjp]

i also agree with you, and im also going to stop playing until we either ban manaphy, or get the mons we need to face him (toxapex, mega venusaur, or tapu fini - lele, etc)

[Ta7esh]

Sure, I might try in summer when I try out this game again unless I get bored as usual. I have nothing to prove as a player but I'll make sure to hit you up if the meta is fun enough to play in so I can try laddering once. And no, don't ever run scarf Mamoswine, it's just bad. There are reasons to why you are at 200 rating and that might be one of them.

 

Sure if thats what you say Mr.top ladder

[Baganha]

I guess ill make a quick update here since pro introduced new things such as weakness berries and gems, these berries, while a pretty neat addition, dont give much to stop manaphy's desctructive capabilities, it would only further its centralisation by making mons like slowbro, amoonguss or even rotom-w sacrificing their items for this weakness berry only to just pseudo-check it. As for gems i've also found nothing that revolutionary that would keep manaphy on its toes, but hey if there is anything regarding this or manaphy in general you want to bring up for discussion, feel free to do so.