Innovative/uncommon sets and lures

[Einheria]

Hi!

 

I have created this thread to talk about less-common and underrated sets we can choose to run on our pokemon. If standard sets are no doubt strong, their main drawback is that everybody will anticipate them and know how to deal with them. So how about we share our creative but quite effective movesets? An innovative set should work effectively, pulls off a real role and not be totally outclassen by standards sets/other pokemon. For instance, a special Gyarados with Fire blast, thunderbolt, Surf and Ice beam is obviously lame since its sp atk and speed stats are mediocre, will never be as strong as the dragon dance set and plenty of pokemon like Starmie will pull a similar set more efficiently.

 

OK, let me start by showcasing some examples that i found useful to lure and surprise your opponent.

 

 

Tyranitar is one of the best and overused pokemon. With a high attack stat and great defenses, it is often used as a hazard setter or a physical attacker (bulky or dragon dance variants). Unfortunately, it can't hope break through the toughest physical walls like Skarmory, Ferrothorn, Scizor, Hippowdon and Gliscor which all wall it to no end thanks to their type and defenses. To add insult to injury, they are all able to set up spikes/swords dance on it or simply hit it super effectively with Earthquake. So i come with a mixed Tyranitar set to lure them and destroy them since it has a very usable sp atk stat and movepool.

 

Tyranitar @ Leftovers (since expert belt isn't coded yet)

Ability: Sand Stream

EVs: 164 Atk / 100 SpA / 244 Spe

Naive Nature

- Stone Edge

- Fire Blast

- Crunch

- Ice Beam

 

With this mixed set, Tyranitar can effectively lure its most common counters and strike them down with its special moves. Skarmory, Scizor and Ferrothorn are roasted by Fire blast and Hippowdon/Gliscor/Garchomp are obliterated by Ice beam. Its speed positive nature and ev is to make sure that it will outspeed every wall, including non invested Gliscor.

 

 

If offensive dragon dance are common on Gyarados, it stuggles to get past walls with whirlwind like Skarmory. The opponent will also try to paralyse, burn, toxic it to hinder its effectiveness so a more defensive set could be the solution.

 

Gyarados @ Leftovers

EVs: 156 HP / 72 Atk / 96 Def / 184 Spe

Adamant Nature

- Dragon Dance

- Taunt

- Waterfall

- Crunch/Bounce

 

Thanks to Taunt, it can use Skarmory or Ferrothorn as set-up fodder since they are unable to whirwind it for the former or thunderwave/leech seed it for the latter. It can also check plenty of physical threats like Talonflame, Lucario, Machamp without Thunderpunch or Scizor thanks to intimidate and decent defenses while retaining offensive presence even without max atk investment.

 

 

 

Wile looking at Infernape, it is typically your standard glasscannon. Hits hard on both side of the spectrum and fast, it is also very frail. It may seem odd to run a defensive set on it but its amazing dual type is a boon to check a good amount of common pokemon as Clefable, Ferrothorn, Weavile, Bisharp, Scizor or even Tyranitar who are annoying for balanced teams.

 

Infernape @ Leftovers

Ability: Iron Fist

EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD

Impish Nature

- Will-O-Wisp

- Slack Off

- Taunt

- Fire Punch

 

Thanks to quick recovery, Infernape can easily switch on dark/steel/dug/fairy type indefinitely. It doesn't stop there though as many of Infernape's common counters, such as Hippowdon, Donphan, Azumarill and Gyarados, are heavily crippled by Wow on their switch-in. Taunt will prevent Clefable and Ferrothorn from healing, setting up calm mind/hazards or using thunder wave. Even without any investment in attack, Fire punch still has decent damage output thanks to stab and iron fist.

 

 

Lucario @ Black Belt

Ability: Justified

EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

Adamant Nature

- Close Combat

- Swords Dance

- Crunch

- Agility

 

Lucario usually runs its swords dance set as its flagship since DPP with Extremespeed as priority. Unfortunately, without life orb, ES fails to KO faster threats, even at +2 so why not dropping it and use both SD and Agility with a double dance moveset instead? Set up with swords dance on stall teams or with agility on offensive teams and Lucario will always have a good match-up. Close combat and Crunch have good synergy, as only the rare Heracross resists them both.

 

To conclude, there is always room for creativity, despite the lack of moves, abilities and items, non-coded yet. The fact is certain infrequently used sets can be proven effective to catch your opponent off-guard as getting off the beaten track can be a good way of gaining the upper hand in a battle. If you are running some uncommon sets to surprise pokemon that normally counter the usual sets and wish to share/discuss it with others, feel free to drop them.

[Shiio]

Definitely interesting.

I wouldn't call those sets "lures" though besides the TTar one. They're more like, surprising alternative sets that can definitely work. I'll try to think of some sets on my part, might edit this post if I get some interesting ideas.

 

I'd like to add that the newly added Hidden Power can be also surprising on a few pokemons, and catch some usual switch-ins offguard.

[Tymerod]

Imo your sets have some flaws or arent uncommon/underrated.

1. naive tyrannitar

- a sassy or relaxed Tyranitar with fire blast+ice beam does the same job against ferrothorn or skarmory (both are 2HKO).

- u need 248 Speed ev's to outspeed special defense gliscor but both have a 2HKO in sand. A defensive Tyranitar still has a 2HKO while a Gliscor needs 3 hits in sand

- 208 speed ev's are enough to outspeed a fully offensive scizor. Against hp+atk invested Scizors u need 0 investment into speed with a speed boosting nature.

- mixed wall hippowdon has a guaranteed 2HKO while your tyranitar needs 3 hits

- a defensive set has a 87,5% chance to 1HKO starmie with crunch in sand while Starmie needs 2 hits with hydro pump or 3 hits with scald. Situation is similar against slowbro, but u will outspeed a defensive Slowbro anyways

- a relaxed tyranitar with 40 def ev's can take a +1 waterfall from gyarados (as long as it isnt a crit) while dealing significant dmg with stone edge

--> Imo a defensive tyranitar is overall better than your set. additionally the named steel types are covered better by magnezone

 

2. Gyarados with taunt

- taunt set is somewhat common if there are a lot of status attacks used in the current meta like Togekiss, blissey, slowbro and u lack another pokemon for them

- bounce in combination with taunt has a drawback because u cant use bounce two times in a row or the enemy has the chance to use status moves again.

 

3. defenive infernape

- is listed on smogon with almost the same moves but different nature+investment, but investment is always depending on the meta

- with an impish nature an without any speed investment u arent able to w-o-w 80 base speed attacker with 252 ev's in speed so u will take at least 1 hit before u cut their dmg. if they carry lum berry u take at least 2 hits (not counting the 85% chance for w-o-w)

 

4. lucario

- without bullet punch u miss a stab attack and its easily walled and forced out by clefable, azumarill or togekiss

- agility wont make u attack harder nor are u outspeeding other priority users. Additionally u need more turns to set up. A standard lucario set is more of a revenge killer or is ment to sweep a weakend team at +2 not to sweep a tanky team at full hp.

[Bong2015]

Your tyr w.o +sp.atk nature and that EV spread can never 1hit ferro and skarmory w. fireblast. and can only 3hit hippo w. ice beam. which give them the oppotunity to slack off. I suggest u use pokemon showdown damage calculation before EV training.

 

Gyarados is a standard defensive set, athough in PRO ppl rarely use ur EV spread (your EV spread is fine) but the moveset is still the same.

 

People use eviolite Monferno in lower tier in showdown + I don't think Fight/Fire is a good defensive type combination. (also I'm really impress the way u plan to taunt a ferrothorn.. like what kind of ferrothorn would have guts to stay and set up against an Infernape)

 

Lucario need power over spd, it already has all kind of priority to choose from. And Close combat and Crunch used to be good coverage before fairies come out. Today, Togekiss mostly bold one - a super common pkm in PRO ladder, laughs at that moveset.

[Kansu]

Hello, nice post but unfortunately, since the playerbase is small and alot of pvp players probably read forums (at least at higher ranking), I will not post my surprising movesets since it would make them not surprising anymore. I would guess most pvp players will do the same hence why I think a post like this will not work. If you have an uncommon set, the reason why it works so well is because its not well known, if you post it and its really good everyone will use it. For example this Gyarados set is certainly the best to use here in pvp, but no one use it just because they don't know it. Personnally I'd keep it that way but that's up to you.

 

On the other side, I think its really fun to discuss new sets. Some of them can be very efficient without relying on surprise effect. It can also make an opponent harder to read. I strongly recommend using such sets, and it can even more simple than that. In this server, about 80% of players don't really know what they're doing when building their team and use the same sets.

 

For example, almost everyone use adamant tyranitar with full atk/hp, so a faster Tyranitar will surprise a lot. I'd like to discuss about your Tyranitar because I was just deciding on which set to use for mine and listed all the perks and cons of Tyranitar sets. Yes using those moves with the defensive relaxed set would be pretty good and beat the pokemon you guys talked about (althought on this mixed set, I'd use Dark Pulse since it deals much more damage to Slowbro). I addition, I think a max speed Tyranitar can be really strong in the metagame too. Personnally, I'd run it Jolly thought as missing out on bulk really sucks. Tyranitar can have similar coverage Fire Punch and Ice Punch, but Superpower also can kill opposing Tyranitar which is really neat when you are sure to outspeed them. Obviously the problem of a physical set is Skarmory, which is why I was thinking of using Taunt on Tyranitar. Since everyone use the Brave bird or no attack Skarmory, I think Taunt is Tyranitar's best way to deal with Skarmory (and also many other walls). As opposed to a relaxed set, a fast set can outpace Scizor, so it doesn't fear superpower.

 

Cordially,

Kansu

[Einheria]

252681 1. naive tyrannitar

- a sassy or relaxed Tyranitar with fire blast+ice beam does the same job against ferrothorn or skarmory (both are 2HKO).

- u need 248 Speed ev's to outspeed special defense gliscor but both have a 2HKO in sand. A defensive Tyranitar still has a 2HKO while a Gliscor needs 3 hits in sand

- 208 speed ev's are enough to outspeed a fully offensive scizor. Against hp+atk invested Scizors u need 0 investment into speed with a speed boosting nature.

- mixed wall hippowdon has a guaranteed 2HKO while your tyranitar needs 3 hits

- a defensive set has a 87,5% chance to 1HKO starmie with crunch in sand while Starmie needs 2 hits with hydro pump or 3 hits with scald. Situation is similar against slowbro, but u will outspeed a defensive Slowbro anyways

- a relaxed tyranitar with 40 def ev's can take a +1 waterfall from gyarados (as long as it isnt a crit) while dealing significant dmg with stone edge

--> Imo a defensive tyranitar is overall better than your set. additionally the named steel types are covered better by magnezone

 

252775 Your tyr w.o +sp.atk nature and that EV spread can never 1hit ferro and skarmory w. fireblast. and can only 3hit hippo w. ice beam. which give them the oppotunity to slack off. I suggest u use pokemon showdown damage calculation before EV training.

 

Actually, there are so many variants of mixed Ttar set coming from the infamous Tyraboah set from 3G. You can play it whatever you want according to your needs and your playstyle. Naive, relaxed, quiet, lonely, even modest are all usable, i just gave one of these sets as example. Imo, you don't really need to ohko a Skarmory since it will take enough damage from Crunch/SE on its switch-in to fall into KO range next turn. But it you really want to 1hko it for good measure, you are free to run a + sp atk nature. If Scizor isn't a problem, you can use a - speed nature with HP EV to retain some bulk. You can even run Blizzard if you prefer sheer power (and being able to 2hko Hippowdon unless it misses) over accuracy or Superpower if Blissey is a pain to deal with.

 

Something like :

 

Tyranitar @ Leftovers

Ability: Sand Stream

EVs: 178 HP / 80 Atk / 252 SpA

Quiet Nature

- Stone Edge/Superpower

- Fire Blast

- Crunch/Dark Pulse

- Ice Beam/Blizzard

 

252+ SpA Tyranitar Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 282-334 (84.4 - 100%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ SpA Tyranitar Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 324-384 (92 - 109%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ SpA Tyranitar Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 112 SpD Hippowdon: 198-234 (47.1 - 55.7%) -- 76.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Tyranitar Ice Beam vs. 244 HP / 200+ SpD Gliscor: 316-376 (89.7 - 106.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

80 Atk Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 268-316 (41.1 - 48.4%) -- 74.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock, sandstorm damage, and Leftovers recovery

80 Atk Tyranitar Crunch vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Slowbro: 164-194 (41.6 - 49.2%) -- 80.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock, sandstorm damage, and Leftovers recovery

 

There are also others EV spreads depending on your needs, it is up to you and your priorities, just pick/find the spread that will suit your team best.

252681 defenive infernape

- is listed on smogon with almost the same moves but different nature+investment, but investment is always depending on the meta

- with an impish nature an without any speed investment u arent able to w-o-w 80 base speed attacker with 252 ev's in speed so u will take at least 1 hit before u cut their dmg. if they carry lum berry u take at least 2 hits (not counting the 85% chance for w-o-w)

 

252775 People use eviolite Monferno in lower tier in showdown + I don't think Fight/Fire is a good defensive type combination. (also I'm really impress the way u plan to taunt a ferrothorn.. like what kind of ferrothorn would have guts to stay and set up against an Infernape)

 

Same thing as Tyranitar, you are free to run speed EV if you deem it to be useful. Outspeeding positive-natured base 80 speed is mandatory for your team? Then run a jolly nature with 48 speed EV, it will also work as well. You want even more speed to be able to outspeed Salamence or Garchomp? Then just run 208 speed EV. It only depends on the role you want it to fulfill.

 

Btw, Monferno is a PU pokemon on smogon and it often runs a attacking set with eviolite. Defensive Infernape has a real niche in the OU metagame thanks to its typing, as illustrated in this replay. Of course, i am aware that OU metagame is completely different from PRO metagame but it proves that Nape is able to tank some decent hits.

 

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-289246602

 

And for Lucario, did you really expect it to have no counters like an uber? No matter the set it runs, it will always have some counters (Hippowdon is the best counter to every version of Luke). Just saying that it could be annoying for a heavy offense team to face an Agility Lucario since they struggle against faster threats. But i do agree that it isn't its best set (the swords dance set is, no doubt).

 

Once again, these are just examples, not commons or fixed sets that you can just import/export without reflexion like a standard all-out attacker reckless Staraptor who doesn't have many other options. Innovatives or gimmicky sets means that you are free to adapt them to your needs and the role you want your pokemon to achieve. That's why i have suggested to discuss about them since they are all perfectible.

252972 For example, almost everyone use adamant tyranitar with full atk/hp, so a faster Tyranitar will surprise a lot. I'd like to discuss about your Tyranitar because I was just deciding on which set to use for mine and listed all the perks and cons of Tyranitar sets. Yes using those moves with the defensive relaxed set would be pretty good and beat the pokemon you guys talked about (althought on this mixed set, I'd use Dark Pulse since it deals much more damage to Slowbro). However, as I said earlier I think a max speed Tyranitar can be really strong in the metagame. Personnally, I'd run it Jolly thought as missing out on bulk really sucks. Tyranitar can have similar coverage Fire Punch and Ice Punch, but Superpower also can kill opposing Tyranitar which is really neat when you are sure to outspeed them. Obviously the problem of a physical set is Skarmory, which is why I was thinking of using Taunt on Tyranitar. Since everyone use the Brave bird or no attack Skarmory, I think Taunt is Tyranitar's best way to deal with Skarmory (and also many other walls). As opposed to a relaxed set, a fast set can outpace Scizor and ohko it, without fearing Superpower.

 

As i said, there are so many options and there are all usable. If recovery moves or Skarmory are a real problem for your team, of course you can drop an attack and run Taunt with some speed investment (but i prefer to strike it directly with Fire blast instead of wasting a turn to taunt it. I don't think taunt is a good idea since it will force Skarm out and you will miss your chance at Fire blasting it off guard). You can even try a pure specially oriented set with modest nature and Fire blast/Ice beam/Dark pulse/Thunderbolt to deal with Tyranitar's classic counters. Of course, Blissey or Snorlax will wall it to no end but no one will switch Blissey on it unless you reveal your entire moveset. It's all up to you to find the better alternative EV spread/moveset for your team.

[Tymerod]

the problem is more on the side that your sets lack explanations why they are better than others besides "they are different". As shown with tyranitar sassy/relaxed ones do the same job as your naive one but can handel other switch ins too while your set cant. Or why your physical tank infernape is better than the one you can find on smogon. Or what pokemons fear an agilitiy set on lucario more than the priority move sets (e.g. extreme speed has a chance for a 0HKO on Staraptor at +2, Bullet punch 2HKO's gengar at +2 while shadow ball isnt a 0HKO)

 

A uncommon set is used if u wanna suprise the enemy by killing/crippling common switch ins. for example u could use rock tomb/stone edge/ancient power on water absorb quagsire, because a lot of players will switch in a dragon dance user like Gyarados or dragonite expecting to setup freely as long as unaware isnt working. Ice punch is better against dragons in general so if u can take care of gyarados with another pokemon u can go this route. I need to admit i havent seen anyone else using quagsire in ranked this or last season besides me.