Help me round out my team

[Diabo123]

This ninetales makes no sense. You don't play a timid one with spa/spd investment & nastyplot if you plan to use only flamethrower as offensive move. So you should replace the ninetales with a bold one or change his moveset (solarbeam, extrasensory, hp rock seems good, even thro you have an exe on your team).

 

Secondly, your team is based on sunnyday but none of them has a sunnyday move, have you consider to put sunnyday on someone ? I mean, a tyranitar or polited can ruin your planes so easy. And what happens if ninetales goes down and you have exe and venusaur up? They won't be useful.

[Guest lampshadejaz]

299091 This ninetales makes no sense. You don't play a timid one with spa/spd investment & nastyplot if you plan to use only flamethrower as offensive move. So you should replace the ninetales with a bold one or change his moveset (solarbeam, extrasensory, hp rock seems good, even thro you have an exe on your team).

 

Secondly, your team is based on sunnyday but none of them has a sunnyday move, have you consider to put sunnyday on someone ? I mean, a tyranitar or polited can ruin your planes so easy. And what happens if ninetales goes down and you have exe and venusaur up? They won't be useful.

 

Disclaimer, i'm new to PVP. This is my first poke game since gameboy Red/Blue.... What are you trying to achieve by going Bold? And what moveset would you go with a Bold vs a Timid? For Bold, are you trying to survive an Earthquake or something? If you go second, and you survive an Earthquake, how is that any different than going first and not surviving an earthquake? When the 2nd Earthquake will kill you anyways? So I understand your thought process on Ninetales being bold. But that 100 base speed is REALLY hard to NOT go Timid. There are so many other poke out there with a base speed of 80-100 that will out speed me if I go bold. I don't want to give up the ability to go first. A certain percentage of my games i'm sweeping 1-3 opponents with Ninetales as a result of Nasty Plot.

 

My Ninetales is holding a Heat Rock, so sun lasts 8 turns. 8 turns is a long time if you are aggressive. I only need to play Ninetales (using his ability) 2 times for a duration of most games. Some games I play Ninetales 3 times. And some games Ninetales dies. I usually lead with Ninetales and immediately change to Egg or Venu or something else. But it depends on what the opponent leads with. If my opponent leads with something that is going to Swords Dance/Dragon Dance then I lead with Roar and push it him forcing a change. If my opponent leads with something slow or that does SPATK Damage that will take 3-5 turns to kill me, I usually have time to Nasty Plot then start sweeping with Flamethrower. Yes it would be nice to Nasty Plot and have two attacks to use, but would I cut Will O Wisp in order to have Solar beam as well? Or are you suggesting to cut Nasty Plot?

 

In my current team, I have a Sableye as my 6th poke. I used to have a Sunny Day as one of Sableye's moves. But I've cut it for a Toxic and have been very happy. Toxic is really annoying for opposing teams and I tend to play REALLY safely with my Ninetales.

 

That being said, I may be playing it horrible wrong. I thought about going with a Bold Ninetales. But I just feel like I'm giving up the ability to go 1st a LOT by doing that. I've also had Solar Beam in there as well, but I feel like the threat of Nasty Plot is much more important than a Solar Beam. Especially since two of my poke are grass already. Also, Solar beam can be tricky against other weather teams. Playing solar beam only to watch the opponetn change weather is crippling and can cost you a game.

[Lazypanda69]

299118 What are you trying to achieve by going Bold? And what moveset would you go with a Bold vs a Timid?

 

I didn't even notice the moveset for your ninetail before. You should never put nasty plot on ninetail, because it's not tanky enough to survive long enough to do a nasty plot then be useful. Solarbeam is almost must have on ninetail for setting up sunny day, because it counters the setup pokemon for the other weather(politoad, tyranitar, and hippopotas). And the way how the weather works, if two pokemon both have weather-effecting ability(for instance your ninetail vs. opponent politoad), the slower one will cause the final weather effect. So if your ninetail got put on with politoad, tyranitar or hippo, it's almost guaranteed that they will win the weather war, because they are slower, your best chance is to OHKO opponent weather set-up pokemon with Solarbeam and switch ninetail out then back in. But all the opponent weather set-up pokemon have STAB move that can OHKO ninetail(or two hits) so it's very tricky to set sun up against other weather team. So you should consider having someone else on the team learn Sunny Day, in case your ninetail doesn't work out.

 

Also impish arcaine is almost a god in sun team, because he has two moves in his moveset to take advantage of the sun, and is tanky, deals tons of damage(especially in sun), has recover move(that gets boosted by sun) and priority move to finish opponent off.

[Guest lampshadejaz]

299163

299118 What are you trying to achieve by going Bold? And what moveset would you go with a Bold vs a Timid?

 

I didn't even notice the moveset for your ninetail before. You should never put nasty plot on ninetail, because it's not tanky enough to survive long enough to do a nasty plot then be useful. Solarbeam is almost must have on ninetail for setting up sunny day, because it counters the setup pokemon for the other weather(politoad, tyranitar, and hippopotas). And the way how the weather works, if two pokemon both have weather-effecting ability(for instance your ninetail vs. opponent politoad), the slower one will cause the final weather effect. So if your ninetail got put on with politoad, tyranitar or hippo, it's almost guaranteed that they will win the weather war, because they are slower, your best chance is to OHKO opponent weather set-up pokemon with Solarbeam and switch ninetail out then back in. But all the opponent weather set-up pokemon have STAB move that can OHKO ninetail(or two hits) so it's very tricky to set sun up against other weather team. So you should consider having someone else on the team learn Sunny Day, in case your ninetail doesn't work out.

 

Also impish arcaine is almost a god in sun team, because he has two moves in his moveset to take advantage of the sun, and is tanky, deals tons of damage(especially in sun), has recover move(that gets boosted by sun) and priority move to finish opponent off.

 

So it's funny you discuss Solarbeam and Nasty Plot like that. I've had the exact opposite experience. I don't have trouble finding opportunities to Nasty Plot. It's probably only 20% of games but when I pull it off Ninetales just starts one shotting so much. And people never expect it. So if they are sitting with a slow Pokemon that cannot one or two shot a ninetales then they are toast to Nasty Plot + Flamethrowers. It's possible I'm dealing with a small sample size of games though. I'll consider trying with Solar beam again and seeing how it goes.

 

Thanks for explaining how weather works with two weather setters on start. I wasn't aware of that. Have you noticed that weather is bugged? If weather is set to Sun, then someone sets it to Sand, it'll still visually show the Sun icon and sun effect even though sand is up. It's a really bad bug that has cost me a couple games.

 

You're the second one to suggest impish arcanine. I'll get right on that. So what are your thoughts on this. If you're going +DEF and -SPATK in order to bulk up. Could it be effective to go +DEF and -SPD in order to make it a ATK and SPATK threat? Arcanine'a base speed is 95. I bet a large portion of Poke who's base speed is 85-95 who would now outspeed it would be timid anyways and would outspeedd it anyways... And I can run a moveset of Extreme Speed, Flare Blitz, Morning Sun, Overheat/Solarbeam/Flamethrower

[Guest lampshadejaz]

299091 This ninetales makes no sense. You don't play a timid one with spa/spd investment & nastyplot if you plan to use only flamethrower as offensive move. So you should replace the ninetales with a bold one or change his moveset (solarbeam, extrasensory, hp rock seems good, even thro you have an exe on your team).

 

Secondly, your team is based on sunnyday but none of them has a sunnyday move, have you consider to put sunnyday on someone ? I mean, a tyranitar or polited can ruin your planes so easy. And what happens if ninetales goes down and you have exe and venusaur up? They won't be useful.

 

Also, I had this exact debate a while back when I started catching and training ninetales. People were suggesting Timid over bulk.

 

https://pokemonrevolution.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=98&t=50187

[Guest lampshadejaz]

299163

 

Here's a follow up on what I was thinking about +DEF and -SPD

 

Notice that It'll still outspeed a Bold Togekiss. A Timid Togekiss would have outspeed it anyways even if it was Impish. So why sacrifice the SPATK option?

 

Extreme Speed, Flare Blitz, Morning Sun, Overheat (this could be really sick one shot kill on a lot of poke). Say I switch into Arcanine. Opponent switches into Cloyster. I play Overheat and 1 shot the Cloyster. Obviously the move is now useless, but it was worth it when taking out a pokemon. I ran the numbers against Weezing as well. It'll do 304 damage to a Weezing who has 334 HP. If I go with EVs of 160ATK, 252DEF, 96SPATK I can 1 shot a Weezing the majority of the time. But I probably wouldn't want to take any ATK EVs away since the Overheat is a 1 time move.

 

[Lazypanda69]

299196 Here's a follow up on what I was thinking about +DEF and -SPD

I wouldn't go relaxed because the speed 95 is part of why tank arcanine is so sexy, it outspeed other uninvested pokes such as impish dragonite, bold toge, Milotic. And with boosted morning sun, fire blitz is pretty much your go to attack move. The fourth move need to be something like roar/toxic or something like that to prevent arcanine to because set up bait for other bulky booster.

[Diabo123]

I didnt say bold is better than timid, just that your movepool fits better on a bold ninetales. Nasty plot can work vs noobs but is really hard to setup vs someone who knows how to play.

Meanwhile the hybrid arcanine meh, why'd you use overheat? Wild charge should be better, you can deal with flying types too, for example talon

[Guest lampshadejaz]

299207

299196 Here's a follow up on what I was thinking about +DEF and -SPD

I wouldn't go relaxed because the speed 95 is part of why tank arcanine is so [Censored], it outspeed other uninvested pokes such as impish dragonite, bold toge, Milotic. And with boosted morning sun, fire blitz is pretty much your go to attack move. The fourth move need to be something like roar/toxic or something like that to prevent arcanine to because set up bait for other bulky booster.

 

But I just showed that Relaxed Arcanine is still faster than Milotic, Dragonite, and Bold Togekiss (basically anything with around 80SPD as base.

[Guest lampshadejaz]

299211 I didnt say bold is better than timid, just that your movepool fits better on a bold ninetales. Nasty plot can work vs noobs but is really hard to setup vs someone who knows how to play.

Meanwhile the hybrid arcanine meh, why'd you use overheat? Wild charge should be better, you can deal with flying types too, for example talon

 

Good point on the flying types. Sounds like an electric attack is a lock. And you're probably right About nasty plot only working versus Noobs.