Orihara
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Posts posted by Orihara
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3 minutes ago, darkbrey777 said:
theres not a logic about this. i did teh 3,5m wq with 0,5 and now im not gonna get a wq? im not understanding u
So if you divide it by IV/Tier, based on the average like in the post says, and average of 200 bidoofs, if that qualifies you as, what the average contribution % is, even if the quest itself fails because not many people participated. What happens is, you still dont get a reward because the quest itself failed, but you get to participate on the next wq because you quailified as a valuable contributor. So it compensates you with another wq with another reward, and punishes those that dont participate to wait out another rotation, increasing your chances to finish another wq without relying on literally everyone.
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1 hour ago, Epithet said:
This cannot be made reality.
Actually, it kinda can, with a tad more complex method rather than outright rewarding everyone. First gotta look at which problem played crucial role in the fail. One being redundant rewards for way too much effort which primarily discouraged players to participate in it.
So, if you break wq's into tiers and add the contribution % into count. A system that goes up a tier per wq and reward with it will both encourage players to participate and remove those that doesnt participate from the equation all together. To simplify, Player A contributed 0% IV whereas players B has contributed 2-3%. Player B gets to participate in the next wq, which is tier 7 and Player A gets to wait for the next rotation. -
Well, before this topic turns more and more into a pissing contest. It is evident that miscommunication is the key culprit to this whole charade.
So i think a middle ground needs to be established from both staff and player alike if both parties wish to improve this situation.
To staff ; Unfortunately how good a group of people see themselves, it is the same groups fault for being incapable of showing it to others as well, so i believe improving player-staff interaction (ingame, discord) is necessary to start a healthy conversation, and while this thread does seem a good way to start putting everything on the table, that effort needs to continue even after this thread has ran its course. Listen to your players, improve the things they deem you are lacking, if they are things you cannot improve, explain why in simple english, coz no one is gonna read pages of wall of text in the long run, meaning no one will come back to this thread and read everything just to get a clear picture on things, as much as we want players to do that, the reality is they wont.
To players ; There is one fundamental thing that everyone here needs to understand. And i know you all heard this thousands of time but never understood what it means. This is a free-to-play game and staff does not get paid. Meaning they work on the game, moderate the game out of their own free will and dedication. Not for their own sake or just to be able to recieve a legendary pokemon in x amount of months just to show off, because at the end each and every staff wants the game to enjoyed by all. Granted, sometimes behaviours and actions of individuals might seem contrary to that, which is where a player needs to put themselves in staff's shoes and realize the mental toll dealing with every single one of you everyday for months and for some, years.
As for how to improve on players end, self-moderate the game. The less toxicity, rulebreak there is to deal with for staff, reduce the stress for both yourselves and staff. Understand the rules, they were made to ensure players that wish to enjoy the game will not be subject to intolerable behaviour or benefit those that would cheat their way into shadowing your hard work put into the game. Be casual with them, half these shitheads are fun to hang out with (except felix ofc, boring guy that one).
As for Wally, i'm still salty about you making me run all over seafoam island for telling me my boss is there. lowblow fam-
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50 minutes ago, 666G0D999 said:
Not that I care about that suggestion, but you clearly took it out of context.
Just to inform with my limited knowledge, i'm not qualified to be able to discuss such matters as a method of "reward"
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4 hours ago, Seoulmate said:
then they SS the last message box and report me LOL
Thats why you should always SS your conversation if it toxic in nature.
4 hours ago, Seoulmate said:why not pay the veteran mods
Under fairuse agreement, which is the legal greyarea how pokemon mmos are made and stay alive. Staff/owners are not allowed to pocket the donations for themselves, unless they want a lawsuit. Or someone in staff is jeff bezos rich and doesnt mind throwing money away.
4 hours ago, Seoulmate said:maybe have MVP awards
İsnt that basicaly the yearly PRO awards made by the community?
4 hours ago, Seoulmate said:I didnt feel the need to report players who are imbeciles, but then I realized I kinda have to if I want to make sure they don't run havoc on the community
The literal dream of every moderation staff regardless of game, is having a self-moderating community with reports etc.
To put into perspective, lets say an epidemic of trolls took over PRO, staff alone can clean it up in lets say 3 months tops, with a self-moderating community it'll take 3 weeks.
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2 hours ago, Belzebel said:
I'm not really one to take sides since i believe both parties are wrong with their approach. However, i dont think false information is necessarily the way to go with things.
First of all lets take a look at what teerav says "Classic PRO GM attitude" While that post is about Spawns. Being a GM has hardly have to do anything with it, in that regard thats hardly a valid criticism to be taken into context.
As for felix, his attitude is wrong and he knows that, hence why he was issued a warning from Keita. Staff have their own policies to follow on behavior, rulebreak etc, i know because i made them. Just because his behaviour is not acceptable doesnt mean staff will ignore those policies and out-right kick him.
And yes, Moderation and Spawn editing has nothing to do with eachother, the only common ground they have is felix having both roles.
As for general feedback, attacking someone personally is not a valid feedback, nor will it pressure someone into reverting or adjusting changes, it will only backfire because in itself, it is a rulebreak to harass a staff member excessively, now if we take into consideration that barely anyone has recieved a punishment despite calling quite despicable things, it disproves the so called "abusive attitude" being angry does not absolve anyone from following rules. period. Staff or player alike.
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1 hour ago, PrayforStefan said:
After reading, what Keita/Wally have been writing, i rather current staff over the old one, seems like it was a huge fiesta who could press the mute and ban button fastest.
Indeed, this staff era is far better than all those came before, including mine. However, to suggest that old staff (i'm assuming you're speaking of us) has played the mash the button faster game is utterly disrespectful. We had over 4k active users with 1600 server player slots. Mind you, this was waay before rules, punishment policies and staff rules were a thing. Now, multiply that by the multitude of bans, RMT's, Item dupes, NPC's that gave you 10m everytime you interacted with etc etc. We played the "mash the button" because the game was in utter chaos. If we havent played the button game, PRO's economy would be non-existant, the game would advertised under "avoid at all costs" bc of overrun toxicity, cheating and whatever you can think of.
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Some of more sensitive information was disclosed between you and me in DM's but i'll add a few more for transparency sake. Feel free to edit them if they are deemed sensitive.
17 hours ago, Shinohara said:Power Abuse
Staff back then literally had dozen of dozen of cases of people banned and evidences intentionally hidden/not added cause the ban was unjust or overly harsh, thing that was found out later and properly punished by the Administration team of that time.Unforunately yes, power abuse was a thing, but every effort was made by me and other GM's to ensure it didnt become a casual thing, which ended up GM's policing staff as well as players. Hence "tyrannical" stigma was applied.
17 hours ago, Shinohara said:Being extremely harsh
Players punished for evident 'friendly' (or even normal) jokes that however Staff were seeing bad cause they were following the rules like a sort of sacred text even higher than the bible and enforcing it like a machine/computer. (we call this robotic moderation and literally teach to be empathic and understand the entire context of a situation since first day of apprenticeship, unsure if it was taught even back then and then people was ignoring it or if it simply was not taught).
Sometimes this was even intentionally aimed at specific people just cause they were classified "rule breakers" and therefore considered worse than others.
Tons of those bans were in fact revoked.This is a decision that was made solely by me. To the point of even "joking" about a rulebreak would result with appropriate punishment, difference is that at the time we had 1600 server slots for 4k active players due to a youtuber with a huge audiance discovering and advertising the game on their channel.
Unfortunately many of the said players did not wish to "enjoy" the game but rather be toxic to the community at large and annoy everyone, including the youtuber that brought them in. So me and other admins decided that it was better to "trim down" the playerbase down by removing those that present toxic behaviour and barely play the game, which honestly didnt effect us in the long run one bit and by the end of april 2016 every chat (ingame forum) was operating exactly the way we intended them to.
Unfortunately regular players were also on the recieving end of this crusade hence why we were more leniant in appeals rather than outright get rid of everyone.17 hours ago, Shinohara said:1st Infraction* : 1-4 Days Quiet Ban.
As we talked about it in DM's, those were not the policies that was enforced while i was active.
17 hours ago, Shinohara said:Also it was recently improved where yes, it's made more serious, however the argument "it's not a job" should never be considered valid from a player and even a staff member.
Not being a job, but being a volunteer position, it doesn't mean staff members should hold a really different kind of mindset (probably worth calling it "seriousness"?) and respect (toward the project) when effectively contributing to the project development and improvement.
It is exactly because we are volunteer that we are able to decide ourselves in the first place if applying or not keeping in consideration that even if not paid it's needed respect toward the project and seriousness.
I'll clarify the "job" part as it seems that it was misunderstood. By job i mean personality is not one the key points in an application, just traits one might find interesting on a sheet. I personally detested that practice, hence our recruitment policy was (for moderation team only) is by scouting, this also allowes staff to be more active ingame as well as forums since it would yield more potential recruits, rather than basing them by application.
However, we also had workshops for those that wished to apply but werent scouted out and were asked questions on wether they would fit our staff goals, dynamic and efficiency.
17 hours ago, Shinohara said:I didn't address the criteria there, but that's simply cause there is not a real criteria.
Sorry for not expanding on the criteria. What i tried to ask was, if a suggestion was made, lets say ingame chat, does staff interact with said player to improve on the suggestion or relay the said suggestion directly to admins or direct the player to suggestions.
17 hours ago, Shinohara said:It's generally the leader of the person who used to handle your complaints, as it's correct to be, however if the person who's being complained about is the leader then an higher up (generally Admin) handle it.
Hmm, unfortunately i've heard different stories (with evidence) that those requests were denied on multiple occasions. Does it depend on the context of said ban (severity 4-5) or does it have to meet a certain criteria to be able to grant a second opinion to it.
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18 hours ago, sgarac said:
This doesnt have to mean that people can spam obscenities. However, people should be given a chance to vent in some unconventional ways. Its relaxing
Use discord with friends/guild
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24 minutes ago, idkup said:
id say that players should treat staff like other players but frankly a not insignificant amount of this community treats other people terribly, so i guess ill just say that everyone should be respectful but not deferential to each other, regardless of whether or not that person is staff. would go a long way towards bridging that gap.
While that may be what u'd expect in a more common-sense reality, player perspective is different in every single game in existance, staff is viewed as a collective, meaning what one does defines everyone else atleast on a basis. For example ;
Oh this staff said this to this person, its extremely rude and should be removed, staff doesnt get removed, oh he didnt get removed then all staff must think the same thing and boom, you have a nice little stigma on your hands for god knows how many months to clean up.
And in all honesty, these behaviours from both sides does not help the situation one bit, rather damages it further.
Now the problem with the "mightier-than-thou" did indeed happen at one point and unfortunately it stuck, even though the people that acted that way are gone now. Which is in itself idiotic to blame people for something that they are not responsible for but it is what it is, the question everyone should ask themselves is quite simple, what do you want. Do you wish to improve the quality of the game? Do you wish to improve relations between staff and players? While many would say yes, barely a handful of people try to behave in a way that would enable such a thing.
As such, the solution is really easy, if you wish to be a part of a solution, stop being the problem. (you = generalization)-
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4 minutes ago, Ghabra said:
I'm desperately waiting for some chad former staff or an OG player to come air some staff dirty laundry right now , because oh boy I've heard some juicy stuff.
You should see some of our private discords with staff, we rip them apart on every chance xD
But no, that would do more harm than good
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4 minutes ago, PrayforStefan said:
Same case on discord, you are literally a retard and u lack braincells if u write your opinions.
Lets keep this respectful, everyone is entitled to their own opinions. Wether they are caused by misinformation or personal experiences.
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Just now, envymeister said:
Need SS to support that Konan is right? i can provide them (i mean i could, but rly cant, PRO privacy bs doesnt allow me to share bans or even talk about it)
He did abuse his power, ppl even have evidence. If u think abusing his power, is being a good staffer, well that might explain your role as: former staffer
Sure, you can send them to me privately on discord, there is no rule that says you cant send them privately and i'll let u know if they are actually abuse or not.
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Just now, konan66 said:
Most of pro's community consider him a bad staff member, and a Power abuser, do you think most of us are wrong and he is right ?
If most people thought the earth was flat, would it be flat?
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First of all, i'd like to disclose that this miscommunication or non-communication between staff and players have gone long enough, and most of you know when that started and with whom. Going back from there, the 2016 era had barely any issues with players. One of PRO's key selling points back then was and i quote "Staff are friendly, rules are fair and strict, no favoritism" this has change dramaticaly over the years, and not in a good way i'm afraid.
On 6/23/2021 at 4:54 PM, Shinohara said:What kind of training do staff has to pass before becoming effectively a full-staff member?
I have yet to see App's or more than 60% of the remaining staff interacting with the community, casually talking or just having fun with players on a daily basis. One of the key requirements for passing App was to be able to interact with the community. What sort of procedure does app and staff follow these days on player interaction?
On 6/23/2021 at 4:54 PM, Shinohara said:How does our Punishment Policy exactly works?
From the original PP that was created by myself and few other staff, rules are not being enforced strict enough or have been enforced in a more discretional way, does PP still intend as a deterrant for toxic people? If so does the goal "keep the game fair for players" still apply as a driving factor on adapting PP to situations.
On 6/23/2021 at 4:54 PM, Shinohara said:How they are addressed within the staff team
What are the criterea's for a suggestion to reach staff?
A: just forums
B: some good bits here and there
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Unfortunately i dont see many back and forth dialogs in suggestions between player and staff to help them improve their suggestions.
On 6/23/2021 at 4:54 PM, Shinohara said:How is staff organized
is it? from what i can tell only content team is somewhat organized, but even within content everyone is responsible for their own things rather than working as a collective, based on dialogs with other CS's.
On 6/23/2021 at 4:54 PM, Shinohara said:How do we make sure the staff are doing the right thing and not abusing their power
I think its more healthy to ask what is "abuse" at this point. Because while some of the things that can be seen as abuse on a regular basis it seems like its completely fine on a staff point of view.
As for a question of my own, how does recruitment policy works? Are there any ideas to let go of the "fill the forum" application and actually communicating with the person that might become your team mate for understanding people better. This is a fanmade game, not a job.
EDIT: In the past, we had a policy to allow players to ask someone else handle the appeal if a player was not satisfied with the answer provided, is this still a common practice in how appeals are being handled this time around?-
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16 hours ago, makeitwitchu said:
As a player, I am not much of a hunter nor has the "change" really affected me. Given your experience, I am sure you are very competent at your job and I have no intention of doubting your decision or vision. My issue, however, is with the philosophy your rhetoric here manifests.Although I am sure you feel justified to dismiss any complaints by the userbase at this point because historically the relationship between staff and the playerbase has not always been great, this antagonism is still something that can be learned from. It goes both ways. I have always felt the playerbase could be a bit more forgiving and less greedy, a lot of the feedback you receive is unproductive, that is true. At the same time, however, the hierarchical power relationship between staff and playerbase in this community is absurd for a fangame. There is little to no transparency or discussion. Feedback gets routinely ignored. The fact that players keep complaining about the staff should not be seen as inherently unjust and invalid because "dumb players just don't get what goes into making this game," but as a symptom of an issue in mentality at the core of your team. Most people are fine with ignoring this toxic attitude because they ultimately enjoy the product you have created (or they are too invested to quit), but when you start using language like the above quote the ugliness of the reality is exposed.
I hope you take this as criticism and not as a personal attack because that it is what the following is: a critique of the ways in which you have chosen to communicate, what that says about your view of the playerbase, and the precedent this sets. I do not care for attacking you personally, this is not about you as an individual, but about your role as a staff member and how adequately or inadequately you perform your assigned role.
I cannot help but feel a strong sense of contempt for your playerbase shine through in the above quote. You sound exhausted with people critiquing you, despite community feedback being the life and blood of games like this. Yes, you are by far the most qualified to talk about spawns given your experience, but this does not mean that every decision you make is automatically right. A new perspective on an issue should always be welcomed, not outright rejected based on a lack of perceived expertise. What is even more striking, is the fact that you legitimise your decision by threatening to revert back to worse spawns than before. I understand you say this to highlight the fact that hey you worked hard to improve spawns, so you DO care about the quality of life of your players, but this is just a terrible way of conveying that. It reads as if you are telling people to shut up or you will make it even worse than it currently is. Imagine calling your internet provider to complain about your net dying and the customer service agent telling you: "Well, it used to die a lot more, so you should consider yourself lucky. If you keep calling this number, I can make it so that it dies every few minutes if you'd like." This is poor communication and it further cements the gap between staff and an already alienated playerbase. To add insult to injury, you condemn people for calling you a dictator and in the same breath you threaten to silence them if they speak out against you. Surely you must see the hypocrisy in that statement.That is all I wanted to say. It is something that has been bothering me for a while, but I never managed to put my finger on it. I hope you treat this like the valid criticism it is, reacting to my feedback as opposed to deleting it outright would already be a big step in the right direction. I would like to end by saying this game has been good to me, I have enjoyed playing it a lot. The last few months have been rough, admittedly, but you find yourself at a juncture where it is essential to appreciate the people that stuck with you and maybe use this as an opportunity to start with a clean sheet, fostering a new culture of open dialogue and transparency. Hopefully, the playerbase will reward you for putting in this effort by offering valid feedback and being more patient and forgiving. As I said before, it goes both ways.
This is indeed a valid criticism. However, one needs to understand and respect the fundamental difference between a staff member and a player, which is a player can ignore most of the annoying stuff but a staff member NEEDS to pay attention to it for the sole purpose of enacting their duty, which is enforcing rules.
Problem with the alienation you speak of has been an issue for quite a while, however the reason behind it does not lay with staff alone. If the community at large harbors hostile or negative behaviour towards staff, then u shouldnt expect them to greet you with open arms and roses, they are still human.
Things always get heated when drastic changes are made that effect the gameplay of players until the dust settles, whether the change remains or get adjusted, which comes down to feedback and how its constructed.
Bottom line is, there needs to be a level of respect between players and staff. A staff needs to respect a players time and effort they put into the game that they're trying to improve and a player needs to respect a staffs time and effort put into making the game and the community as enjoyable and fair as possible (toxicity etc etc) only difference is, staff are REQUIRED to respect that.
As for the whole changes and other stuff. If there was a change made and everyone riots 10 minutes after the announcement is made, that feedback has of little value because the said changes have not been tested, so your feedback is based on what you read, not what you experience, if said experience is effecting your gameplay negatively then that feedback gains value, because at the end of the day a its the developer and content teams job to make the game as enjoyable as possible. Then again, one must keep in mind that if a large majority wants a certain change, it may not be in the best interest in the games long term goals or path, many events that like that have taken place.
Hope this answer would atleast satisfy a few people but unfortunately my knowledge is extremely limited with internal stuff to be able to say more.-
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Silver server ofcourse
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:)
in Suggestions
I disagree, get him outta here
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As one of the few people that ever had access to Content Decision and had a say in it, every decision that was ever made about introducing new coin shop items aside from cosmetics go thought a lengthy discussion to have it polished, fair usage and long term effects to make them as fair as possible for those that buy it themselves or via trade. So the chances of p2w is astronomically unlikely.
The earliest assumption of p2w were the MS only areas and MS only spawns, which was debunked due to those mons being available on different regions, that they were hidden under MS solely bc we didnt have enough map/spawn space to put them in, that is no longer the case and does not give any player any advantage over beating the region, since most commonly used mons are gengar and gyarados to clear almost every region. Or locking you out of storyline completion for not being able to access MS only areas.
Examplary "p2w" scenarios would be having an MS-area where all spawns are legendary and, perfect IV, nature, ability mons that are highly requested in the meta and are untradable.
So i'd HIGHLY advice players that think PRO is p2w to do some research, or play games that are actually pay2win to be able to tell the difference.
Sincerely, Deathwing. -
So i dont even know when was the last time i did the annoying quest but, after i talked with watson (something to do with eumi island) my entire subway quest reset itself
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7 hours ago, teerav said:
1 - That's ridiculous as its impossible to add a bot without explicit permission of a discord Admin. If an Admin is adding bots to the discord without considering security, there is much larger problems.
2 - I disagree with you. Sure, you don't want to any low tier pvp quality members in the council, but there are plenty of high tier pvpers who are mature. To say "most pvpers are rather toxic" is extremely wrong. I assume you are confusing competitive attitudes with toxic attitudes. You do not need to be a toxic airhead to be competitive.1- I've seen it happen multiple times on Ark discords, someone gets a hold of a perm invite link, sends a bot in and boom, entire chat history of exceptional role view privilages are downloaded as txt file.
EDIT: The bot doesnt require a permission to view anything, lets say there is a dmod chat, which dmod and staff can view, those are general roles. But a role named "lol" is created and can see dmod, thats an exceptional role, discord bots can breach that and get access to your entire chat history of that specific channel.
2-I mean yeah, just was a general assumption as to why that might've been the case -
On 10/25/2020 at 5:13 AM, teerav said:
This is a long awaited necessary step to bettering the PvP environment, very happy to see it put in place. Some critiques:
- Why create a brand new discord for this? I feel as though you could have simply created a new category in the current PRO Discord labeled "PvP Discussions" and created the role necessary. All rules within the PvP Council Discord are essentially the exact same as PRO Discord. PRO Discord already has an active and capable crew of moderators. Many guild and community discords already follow announcement channels from PRO Discord. A Council Announcement could easily be created under a newly created PvP Discussions category. You could created a new role "PvP Council" that has special access to necessary channels. PRO already has issues keeping announcements consistent across all platforms, this will not help. Keeping it all in one discord would have simply helped with communication across the board.
- Why specify you may not look into council member's behavior history? This tells me you have already accepted at least one council member that has a very public history of bad behavior and you are trying to get ahead of the issue by declaring thats not an aspect you look at. It also signals to the community that we can be complete and utter dumper fire immature poopoo heads and still have a chance to hold a position that makes major decisions about the games future. Honestly you should have just left this line out. I immediately have the impression council members are arrogant toxic douchebags.
- I believe ladder experience and ladder tournament experience is an awesome requirement, but it should be explicit that experience needs to be recent and consistent. There are a lot of great pvpers, but the game is drastically different than it was a year ago.
To finish on a positive note, I really *really* like that the #council-chat and #suspect-results-votes is visible to the public. I believe this is essentially to avoid any abuse in the market. Although simple talk about a pokemon, ability, nature, item, etc. could influence the market, but its clear from start of conversation to final vote what gets changed to players can make well educated economic decisions with their pokemon. I believe it also eliminates nearly all fear of abuse. PLUS, its great educational content! It's often very fun to read thoughtful discussions from proven and trusted PvP experts.
1- Too many "exceptional roles" creates a security breach, someone can just send in a bot and get all the conversation history of those channels that have exceptional role access, so creating seperate discord server is not really an issue.
2- If i were to guess, it'd be pvp council does not really fall under the same category as your usual staff, therefor dont really need to be the "shining examples" of the community but rather PvP skills. Other reason could be most pvpers are rather toxic so an exception is to be made to favor quality pvpers and sacrifice behaviour for it, rather than risking low tier pvp quality for the sake of behaviour. -
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Also something i've been wondering, will the players from PRO who've decided to continue their journey in the new game will recieve some sort of compensation for the time they've spent in here?
nice bidoof quest!
in General Game Talk
Posted
Technically, they will be limiting themselves without effecting other ppl's progress. But you do you.