Manaphy in ranked PVP

[Baganha]

Just a quick response from my side; Just because a Pokémon is very strong or the best in the Meta doesn't mean it has to be banned. In case of Manaphy, there are enough counters and even stronger Pokémon.

 

May i ask some examples of COUNTERS you know on the top of your head?

[Cobramk]

Why does your guys complain, staff never listen us and care about PvP, prefer PvE, we already complain about a lotof things like Sand Veil, nothing happens, Manaphy will be never banned, give up.

[Chris]

May i ask some examples of COUNTERS you know on the top of your head?

Ferro, AV Tang, Gengar can revengekill, Dnite, hard hitting priority (Conk, Breloom), Clef (Unaware) probably a lot more. Some need to be aware of Icebeam tho.

[Baganha]

Why does your guys complain, staff never listen us and care about PvP, prefer PvE, we already complain about a lotof things like Sand Veil, nothing happens, Manaphy will be never banned, give up.

 

If thats the attitude everyone had for pvp then what would even be the point of playing it? Why should i "give up" something i believe it can be corrected and would mean a better future for the meta knowing that other people agree with me as well? If they've never took action before why does it mean they'll never do it?

[Chris]

If thats the attitude everyone had for pvp then what would even be the point of playing it? Why should i "give up" something i believe it can be corrected and would mean a better future for the meta knowing that other people agree with me as well? If they've never took action before why does it mean they'll never do it?

If Manaphy is too strong in your opinion use Unaware Clef and setup on it?

[Cobramk]

If thats the attitude everyone had for pvp then what would even be the point of playing it? Why should i "give up" something i believe it can be corrected and would mean a better future for the meta knowing that other people agree with me as well? If they've never took action before why does it mean they'll never do it?

Your guys play them life to found argument, how is totally false and not good, We are on gen6 here, not gen5, Manaphy will not be banned, i dont want to debate for like 1 hours, i left this post, continue if you want.

[Baganha]

Ferro, AV Tang, Gengar can revengekill, Dnite, hard hitting priority (Conk, Breloom), Clef (Unaware) probably a lot more. Some need to be aware of Icebeam tho.

 

I've specified in my post for you to mention counters to which you've only mentioned 2, giving the edge over ferro against a +3 manaphy for the sake of the argument here, gengar cannot revenge kill manaphy at full and certainly can take a +3 hit, making him only a check, dnite is the same as +3 ice beam ohko's it through multiscale, priority is not a counter but a means of weakening it/ revengekill it, obviously this could never be considered a counter knowing that conk bish and all the priority users die to +3 manaphy.

 

 

If Manaphy is too strong in your opinion use Unaware Clef and setup on it?

 

I dont think you see the problem here, why should i be forced to run a pokemon with almost the sole purpose of beating manaphy, do you not see how centrlising this is? I've given this example already but imagine a scenario where you could use kyogre in pvp, appling your logic would also mean kyogre shouldnt be banned as counters exist for him as well, such as shedinja or chansey, its pretty clear a pokemon like this shouldnt be allowed in the meta and no one should be forced to run one of those two pokemon to beat it.

Edited March 10, 2019 by Baganha

[Baganha]

Your guys play them life to found argument, how is totally false and not good, We are on gen6 here, not gen5, Manaphy will not be banned, i dont want to debate for like 1 hours, i left this post, continue if you want.

 

Im not sure why you keep bringing up "we are in gen 6, not gen 5" argument? what did exactly gen 6 bring to the table that made manaphy more easily dealt with? i think you're trying to make a direct comparison to smogon, knowing that manaphy got unbanned from OU in gen 6, though im not sure why both of these things should be compared as they are very diferent from one another.

[Starkrey]

Ferro, AV Tang, Gengar can revengekill, Dnite, hard hitting priority (Conk, Breloom), Clef (Unaware) probably a lot more. Some need to be aware of Icebeam tho.

 

I don't want to be disrespectful in any way but you don't seem to know what a "counter" is.

Also, a regular Sassy Ferrothorn loses to Manaphy under rain if he doesn't have Power whip, can Rest freely, set up and spam Ice beam.

+6 252 SpA Manaphy Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 232+ SpD Ferrothorn: 215-254 (61 - 72.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (this is sassy spedef invested Ferro Btw, i let you imaginate what a relaxed one takes).

Same for the Unaware Clefable you mentionned, it loses if you don't run Calm Mind on it, which isn't a great move either for this kind of Clef.

+6 252 SpA Manaphy Surf vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Unaware Clefable in Rain: 202-238 (51.2 - 60.4%) -- 91.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

The rest aren't even counters or checks (Tang AV is but gets knocked out in 2 turns if the opponent already Tail Glow'ed) and can't OKHO a manaphy so idk what you wanted to say here, you also imply that i need to sacrify one pokemon to be able to possibly revenge kill it, if the opponent dares to stay and let you kill it of course (while he can actually keep it and rest later in order to attempt to sweep again).

 

I'm not saying there are litterally Zero counters to Manaphy, but being forced to play them in every team like Ferrothorn or HA Clef (with Specific sets btw), just for ONE pokemon is just unbalanced, and ruins teambuilding and the meta.

If you follow Showdown competitive scene, you'll also note that Pokemons like Zygarde got suspect tested recently.

Didn't Zygarde have counters ? Yes, it had (Tangrowth, Tapu Bulu, other grass types / Clefable as a counter/check, other fairy types as counter/checks / Landorus / Ice types with Scarf or Priority, etc ). Guess what ? It got banned with close to a 80% approval rate iirc.

It's not only about "not having counters", but also about recognizing this Pokemon is too much of a threat for this PRO Meta, and does a huge job even against his "counters/checks", and if you dare to try playing without them, then you are open to a sweep of your team or having 2/3/4 mons killed by it. It simply makes the meta even worse and more boring than before, which is already an accomplishment, as it also reinforce Rain Teams' power and omnipresence.

[Chris]

I don't want to be disrespectful in any way but you don't seem to know what a "counter" is.

Also, a regular Sassy Ferrothorn loses to Manaphy under rain if he doesn't have Power whip, can Rest freely, set up and spam Ice beam.

+6 252 SpA Manaphy Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 232+ SpD Ferrothorn: 215-254 (61 - 72.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (this is sassy spedef invested Ferro Btw, i let you imaginate what a relaxed one takes).

Same for the Unaware Clefable you mentionned, it loses if you don't run Calm Mind on it, which isn't a great move either for this kind of Clef.

+6 252 SpA Manaphy Surf vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Unaware Clefable in Rain: 202-238 (51.2 - 60.4%) -- 91.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

The rest aren't even counters or checks (Tang AV is but gets knocked out in 2 turns if the opponent already Tail Glow'ed) and can't OKHO a manaphy so idk what you wanted to say here, you also imply that i need to sacrify one pokemon to be able to possibly revenge kill it, if the opponent dares to stay and let you kill it of course (while he can actually keep it and rest later in order to attempt to sweep again).

 

I'm not saying there are litterally Zero counters to Manaphy, but being forced to play them in every team like Ferrothorn or HA Clef (with Specific sets btw), just for ONE pokemon is just unbalanced, and ruins teambuilding and the meta.

If you follow Showdown competitive scene, you'll also note that Pokemons like Zygarde got suspect tested recently.

Didn't Zygarde have counters ? Yes, it had (Tangrowth, Tapu Bulu, other grass types / Clefable as a counter/check, other fairy types as counter/checks / Landorus / Ice types with Scarf or Priority, etc ). Guess what ? It got banned with close to a 80% approval rate iirc.

It's not only about "not having counters", but also about recognizing this Pokemon is too much of a threat for this PRO Meta, and does a huge job even against his "counters/checks", and if you dare to try playing without them, then you are open to a sweep of your team or having 2/3/4 mons killed by it. It simply makes the meta even worse and more boring than before, which is already an accomplishment, as it also reinforce Rain Teams' power and omnipresence.

 

I agree that I counted checks not counters, but if u need a counter then use CM Unaware Clef.