h.a. Gothielle needs to be revised

[Einheria]

253096 Hi

It's not 'cause you loose to a particular pokemon that you should ask for it to get banned. Every team has a nemesis, Gothitelle is not an "abuse" as you say but it's just a setup mon, and if you don't want to let it setup and straight up 6-0 your team then find a counter.

 

Gothitelle isn't breaking the metagame in my opinion, or at least if you consider that it is, then Dragonite, Azu, etc.. should be banned too.

 

Step back and find a solution to beat it, i'm sure it'll be easy.

Regards.

 

How are you supposed to counter a pokemon if you cannot switch on it? Gothitelle's role is not to be able to 6-0 a team but to get rid of your opponent's walls so a teammate can easily clean up late-game after their counters are gone. With the lack of team preview, you won't be able to even anticipate its switch in so it is basically a free trap for it. Commons walls or backbones of balanced/stall teams such as Blissey, Lanturn, Politoed or Clefable are all trapped and killed by Goth and once they're gone, you lost your counters/checks to many threats which are now free to sweep.

 

Sure, some walls are able to defend themselves, especially those you can phaze it out like Skarmory or Hippowdon and it is not that strong against offensive team but i can comprehend why some players want to, at least, suspect it just like smogon did. Strategy in pokemon is based on predictions and switching but shadow tag just prevent it, which can be seen as gamebreaking.

[Guest SugarRed9]

253115

253096 Hi

It's not 'cause you loose to a particular pokemon that you should ask for it to get banned. Every team has a nemesis, Gothitelle is not an "abuse" as you say but it's just a setup mon, and if you don't want to let it setup and straight up 6-0 your team then find a counter.

 

Gothitelle isn't breaking the metagame in my opinion, or at least if you consider that it is, then Dragonite, Azu, etc.. should be banned too.

 

Step back and find a solution to beat it, i'm sure it'll be easy.

Regards.

 

How are you supposed to counter a pokemon if you cannot switch on it? Gothitelle's role is not to be able to 6-0 a team but to get rid of your opponent's walls so a teammate can easily clean up late-game after their counters are gone. With the lack of team preview, you won't be able to even anticipate its switch in so it is basically a free trap for it. Commons walls or backbones of balanced/stall teams such as Blissey, Lanturn, Politoed or Clefable are all trapped and killed by Goth and once they're gone, you lost your counters/checks to many threats which are now free to sweep.

 

Sure, some walls are able to defend themselves, especially those you can phaze it out like Skarmory or Hippowdon and it is not that strong against offensive team but i can comprehend why some players want to, at least, suspect it just like smogon did. Strategy in pokemon is based on predictions and switching but shadow tag just prevent it, which can be seen as gamebreaking.

Just to add on to what Einheria said a lot of pokemon like skarmory and hippowdon can utilize whirlwind to force the gothielle to switch out. Whirlwind/roar breaks shadow tag by forcing gothielle to switch, and upon switching gothielle loses all calm mind stacks. Combine this with entry hazards goth will be wittled down in no time with the proper prediction.

 

I notice a lot of pvpers have a lack of creativity in this game, and we need to learn to play smarter not harder.

[Einheria]

253118

253115

253096 Hi

It's not 'cause you loose to a particular pokemon that you should ask for it to get banned. Every team has a nemesis, Gothitelle is not an "abuse" as you say but it's just a setup mon, and if you don't want to let it setup and straight up 6-0 your team then find a counter.

 

Gothitelle isn't breaking the metagame in my opinion, or at least if you consider that it is, then Dragonite, Azu, etc.. should be banned too.

 

Step back and find a solution to beat it, i'm sure it'll be easy.

Regards.

 

How are you supposed to counter a pokemon if you cannot switch on it? Gothitelle's role is not to be able to 6-0 a team but to get rid of your opponent's walls so a teammate can easily clean up late-game after their counters are gone. With the lack of team preview, you won't be able to even anticipate its switch in so it is basically a free trap for it. Commons walls or backbones of balanced/stall teams such as Blissey, Lanturn, Politoed or Clefable are all trapped and killed by Goth and once they're gone, you lost your counters/checks to many threats which are now free to sweep.

 

Sure, some walls are able to defend themselves, especially those you can phaze it out like Skarmory or Hippowdon and it is not that strong against offensive team but i can comprehend why some players want to, at least, suspect it just like smogon did. Strategy in pokemon is based on predictions and switching but shadow tag just prevent it, which can be seen as gamebreaking.

Just to add on to what Einheria said a lot of pokemon like skarmory and hippowdon can utilize whirlwind to force the gothielle to switch out. Whirlwind/roar breaks shadow tag by forcing gothielle to switch, and upon switching gothielle loses all calm mind stacks.

 

I notice a lot of pvpers have a lack of creativity in this game, and we need to learn to play smarter not harder.

 

Yes but unfortunately, not all pokemon can run whirlwind or roar (and no Goth will try to set up on a Skarm because it knows every Skarm has whirlwind).

 

As far as i hate Blissey, let's consider this example to demonstrate the power of Goth (you can replace Blissey with Clefable or Quagsire, the results will be the same):

- Your opponent has a Gengar against you.

- You switch on your Blissey to take its Shadow ball or whatever

- Your opponent switches on Goth as you cannot predict it because there is no team preview

- Your Blissey is dead, you can't do anything about it, you lost your best answer to Gengar which can now go all-out on you, not even mentioning that you have a +6 Goth in front of you

 

There are many examples like this. You can be the best player in the world, you'll never be able to anticipate a Goth switch in since you don't even know if your opponent is running it or not. So unless you want to build a special team around countering Gothitelle with back up solutions and phazers all around if it kills your main wall, it is very strong and hinders teambuilding.

[Futz]

253115

How are you supposed to counter a pokemon if you cannot switch on it? Gothitelle's role is not to be able to 6-0 a team but to get rid of your opponent's walls so a teammate can easily clean up late-game after their counters are gone. With the lack of team preview, you won't be able to even anticipate its switch in so it is basically a free trap for it. Commons walls or backbones of balanced/stall teams such as Blissey, Lanturn, Politoed or Clefable are all trapped and killed by Goth and once they're gone, you lost your counters/checks to many threats which are now free to sweep.

 

Sure, some walls are able to defend themselves, especially those you can phaze it out like Skarmory or Hippowdon and it is not that strong against offensive team but i can comprehend why some players want to, at least, suspect it just like smogon did. Strategy in pokemon is based on predictions and switching but shadow tag just prevent it, which can be seen as gamebreaking.

 

I wont tell how, but its pretty easy to counter.

Honestly I also hate gothitelle not because its hard to counter like you guys complaining about, but because its long set-up which is annoying and time wasting. However, its proven that gothitelle reduce the using of Regenerator Slowbro in ranked ladder which is better because Regen slowbro shit are more annoying & time wasting than gothitelle set up.

[Guest LiquidSnakeK]

253133

 

I wont tell how, but its pretty easy to counter.

Stop being so pretentious. As if it's not common knowledge to begin with. It's not that it doesn't have a counter, or that it's "hard" to counter, its that its impossible to predict if it's coming. You can't counter what you can't see coming.

[Futz]

253137

Stop being so pretentious. As if it's not common knowledge to begin with. It's not that it doesn't have a counter, or that it's "hard" to counter, its that its impossible to predict if it's coming. You can't counter what you can't see coming.

 

Its only surprised you once per match, and if your team got rekt just because you cant predict it 'that one time' it means your team just not good enough or simply full of cancer stall.

[Dohko]

253096 Hi

It's not 'cause you loose to a particular pokemon that you should ask for it to get banned. Every team has a nemesis, Gothitelle is not an "abuse" as you say but it's just a setup mon, and if you don't want to let it setup and straight up 6-0 your team then find a counter.

 

Gothitelle isn't breaking the metagame in my opinion, or at least if you consider that it is, then Dragonite, Azu, etc.. should be banned too.

 

Step back and find a solution to beat it, i'm sure it'll be easy.

Regards.

 

dragonite and azumarril have way more counters than fully boosted gothielle has in this current game. I have beaten all but one so far but I didn't like what I saw in that someone with little experience can put up a very tough battle just because of that one pokemon's ability and moves. I'm really curious as to what your counters are considering strong dark types like honch and tyra are all about there is atm that can kill it with one hit or leave it dying.

[Coop33]

So tired of it. :Sleeping:

 

I have a Gothitelle h.a. in my boxes, im almost never using it since its/would be a waste of teamslot in 90% of the games. Same goes for gothitelles i face, 90% of them are just useless and appear as last pokemon while my Sweeper finishs him off. Sure, its strong vs Stall, but stall teams usually are hazard stacking + roar/whirlwind/dragon tail. Even forretress learns volt-switch to get out of this.

 

(Edit:

253124 - Your Blissey is dead, you can't do anything about it, you lost your best answer to Gengar which can now go all-out on you, not even mentioning that you have a +6 Goth in front of you

)

 

Tbh its even difficult to setup vs blissey since u cant trick a choice item on the wall. So u are faster than blissey:

330ish hp after Rest u eat a seismic = 220. Sleep turn number 1 u eat a sesimic toss = 120hp, sleep turn number 2 u eat a seismic toss = 20hp. U are awake and can use Rest. Nice wallbreaker tho. Letz say u have leftis and somehow u get to 101 hp in the turn u wake up. Then u use CM and blissey paras u. Then u are slower than her and she uses seismic. So its dependent on your luck if u get a single para and die or not and can use CM 4x times.

 

And i wont even talk about Slowbros, florges, clefable who could all set up CMs on their own while gothitelle burns sleep turns. But yeah sure, there are possiblities for her to switch in and set up for free. Like a tentacruel or smth. Then u better have an answer for her.

 

But hey:

253090 BellyDrum Azu is the very same. Will generally kill 1 pokemon or 2 (or full sweep) before you manage to take it out if you don't have the proper counter). Same goes for weather sweeper, and lots of other pokemons. Why should Gotithelle be banned for? This pokemon remains a cure to the abusive use of stalling here. Don't knock it away.

 

Exactly this, so why not banning BellyDrum Azu? If u start with him and u are lucky with match up u just click belly drum. So u better have a check or you re dunnzo. Why is that different than gothitelle?

Then there is Lum-Berry dragonite. Multiscale = 1 DD. Wrong lead of opponent = 2 DD. Letz go, try to get rid of this thing now. Outrage Party.

Then smth like talonflame/blaziken. U know what damage they deal after 1 SD with bb/highjump kick? Why not banning them, why is that different to gothitelle? No checks, u are dunnzo! :Heart:

Then Excadrill in SandStream, u know what happens after 1 SD. U better have a check. xd

 

If u dont take care in your team building of these pokemons and u suddenly have to face them, well rip.

But hey u know whats really OP and good vs all of them? Yep, stall. Regenerator forever! :y:

 

And u know whats pretty effective vs stall? ;)

[Shyntil]

Looking at what arguments people who want Shadow Tag to stay bring to back up their opinion i came to the conclusion that it is pointless to argue.

[Giovanna]

Well.

 

We can clearly see who's playing Gothitelle and who isnt on this thread.

 

In my opinion Gothitelle isnt a setup pokemon, it's a common abuse of the official game's error.

 

To setup your pokemon you're supposed to be smart. Send it on at the right moment, buffing at the right moment, not just throwing it to a weak pokemon (or a pokemon that can't hit it) and spam calm mind then rest.

 

I faced it yesterday and the playstyle was.. Really annoying. I finaly pm'd the guy after 10min+ of battle against his Gothitelle to ask him to play correctly. He told me that he was setting up (he was at +6 from a long time) and to disconnect if I wasnt happy.

 

Yes, I truly think this pokemon (with this ability) is totaly breaking the metagame and if Shadow Tag is banned on the official games, there is a reason: It can get easily abused. This is exactly what is happening atm on our beloved game.

 

nb: I'd need to know what could 1hko a +6 Gothitelle. Everyone is running it Bold + max def and once it uses calm mind 6 times it got an insane amount of sdef. The difference is, once he is at +6, he will 1hko everything of your team for sure unless you got something it cannot hits. A pokemon that let you a chance "only if" isnt that good for the metagame.