h.a. Gothielle needs to be revised

[Einheria]

253147 Exactly this, so why not banning BellyDrum Azu? If u start with him and u are lucky with match up u just click belly drum. So u better have a check or you re dunnzo. Why is that different than gothitelle?

Then there is Lum-Berry dragonite. Multiscale = 1 DD. Wrong lead of opponent = 2 DD. Letz go, try to get rid of this thing now. Outrage Party.

Then smth like talonflame/blaziken. U know what damage they deal after 1 SD with bb/highjump kick? Why not banning them, why is that different to gothitelle? No checks, u are dunnzo!

 

The main difference between Azumarill/Dragonite/Talonflame/Drill and Goth is that you can switch your counter immediatly on them. For instance, if you see a D-nite, Excadrill or Talonflame, you can send your Hippowdon or your Skarmory as it's dragon dancing/swords dancing and it will be forced out next turn (unless it is a lure Dragonite with special moves). Same thing goes for BD Azumarill, switch Tentacruel, Venusaur, Amoonguss, or Gyarados on it the turn it tries to setup and you will leave it in a awkward position.

 

With Goth, maybe you have a Hippowdon or a Scizor in your team to beat it. But the problem is... you simply cannot bring them on the battlefield unless you manage to predict its switch in (which is nearly impossible due to no team preview). Well, i do agree that without trick and choice scarf, Goth is far less dangerous than it used to be on showdown.

 

And i think it's funny how Goth fares well against stall team while it is mostly seen on stall teams to serve as a means of beating opposing stalls by removing their cleric/spinner.

 

Blaziken is definitely more dangerous than Gothitelle though. Imo it should be suspected before her.

[Nasulelijah]

i don`t play gothy and i am against banning it, since all of people from here are playing slowbrow/blissey and all the tanks/regenerators and other boring/unfair things like stallers and all sort of those pokemons :>. You want ban gothy, i an ban slowbrow and so on as an exemple, deal with it as long as it don`t affects the abuse of an ability/move that is not working correctly. Just deal with it and stop crying about it ^^

[Hart1dechu]

253282

To setup your pokemon you're supposed to be smart. Send it on at the right moment, buffing at the right moment, not just throwing it to a weak pokemon (or a pokemon that can't hit it) and spam calm mind then rest.

 

That's exactly the samething xDD

Send a Gothitelle against a pokemon that can't kill or deal damage to gothitelle, is send it at the right moment

 

Gothitelle can be a useless pokemon when ur team (all) has pokemon who can deal or kill him. The only tank i have on my team is a sableye, and put a gothitelle against a sableye, is suicide xD

[Giovanna]

It's not the same thing at all. You can almost in every case throw Gothitelle in blindly and setting it up. The right moment for it is nearly everytime. This is the fact.

 

To the guy saying everyone here got a regenerator slowbro or blissey: You're wrong. I'm not using them. And btw comparing Slowbro to Gothitelle is a bit stupid considering Slowbro is litteraly easy to kill by any elek/grass attack while Gothitelle tank both.

 

To the previous comment: I'm sure you got atleast 2 pokemons Gothitelle can setup in. + Your Prankster Sableye wouldnt stand on his feet too long against a +6 gothitelle unless you're surprisingly lucky with the confusion.

[Tymerod]

i already suggested to bann shadow tag in combination with boosting/setup moves. shadow Tag itself isnt bad. else we need to talk about trapping in general including magnet pull or arena trap. The difference with gothitelle is the ability to trap and to setup for free resulting in a kill with 95% hp left. And you dont need an enemy with a stall team. its enough if there is one special attacker without an super effektiv move.

A bold gothitelle has over 334 HP, 317 Def, 257 SpDef and 226 SpAtk at +0. In comparison a bold unaware Clefable with calm mind has 384 HP, 269 Def, 217 SpDef and 226 SpAtk at +0. it not bad stat wise.

 

For example even a sharp beak staraptor has only a 31,3% chance for a 0HKO with brave bird. A technichian+life orb Breloom with bullet seed needs 4 hits to have a chance for a 0HKO. without life orb it needs 5 hits for a 75% chance for a 0HKO. So its not like u can just switch in a physical attacker, after gothitelle setup to +6 and killed the first one, to revenge kill it. U need something like pursuit bisharp to have a guaranteed 0H revenge kill. Other dark types with pursuit dont have the chance to even revenge kill it with 0H if its at 95% HP. But right now we dont even have the option because pursuit isnt working as intended. Gothitelle can carry signal beam to take care of those dark types to. Than switch out, get healed with wish support and set up again on the next special attacker.

But to be honest most players using gothitelle arent using it to the full potential.

 

Gothitelle with full investment into special defense (nature+ev's= 350 SpDef; bold+ev's=319 SpDef) could already take care of almost all special attackers without the need to use calm mind because it has access to taunt, rest+chesto berry to cure status and heal up again and some coverage moves. It wouldnt kill her but limit the ability to trap pokemons to a level like magnezone's.

[Alexisetmimi]

253313 i don`t play gothy and i am against banning it, since all of people from here are playing slowbrow/blissey and all the tanks/regenerators and other boring/unfair things like stallers and all sort of those pokemons :>. You want ban gothy, i an ban slowbrow and so on as an exemple, deal with it as long as it don`t affects the abuse of an ability/move that is not working correctly. Just deal with it and stop crying about it ^^

 

i agree what Eli say, most of the guys who are crying about gothi are staller players, or those sort of pokes. and , tbh gothi can get rekt by a lots of poke ;)

[Nasulelijah]

if staff are listening to you to ban shadow tag along with boosting setup, why they won`t accept banning stallers or 6 pokemons team all tank ? you want to start a revolution or something without knowing the consequence ;), maybe is just me but if they really ban because 1 or 2 guys said so, is a good consideration to just quit the game if they don`t ban what me and other 3-5 people are wanting xD, as a good exemple

[Coop33]

253282 We can clearly see who's playing Gothitelle and who isnt on this thread.

 

Oh? How do we see that?^^

253282 I faced it yesterday and the playstyle was.. Really annoying.

 

I feel ya... but u know what is annyoing too? Hazard stacking walls which keep roaring/whirlwind/dragon tail in my face until luckily my spinner/defogger appears. Or a blissey which walls my spatks together with a regen slowbro/skarmo vs my atkers. Damn why i have to take a spinner AND a stallbreaker with me. I think thats against the meta-game, why i should always carry both with me??? So lets ban it.

Damn this +2 Talonflame is ripping me apart, why i dont have check to it? Lets ban it.

Oh god this +6 Azu is ripping me apart, no aqua jet resistence, letz ban it.

Ohhh +2 Excadrill is sweeping my whole team why im not carrying donphan/breloom/azu with sturdy/prio with me??? Lets ban it.

 

Understand what i mean?^^

253303 The main difference between Azumarill/Dragonite/Talonflame/Drill and Goth is that you can switch your counter immediatly on them. For instance, if you see a D-nite, Excadrill or Talonflame, you can send your Hippowdon or your Skarmory as it's dragon dancing/swords dancing and it will be forced out next turn (unless it is a lure Dragonite with special moves). Same thing goes for BD Azumarill, switch Tentacruel, Venusaur, Amoonguss, or Gyarados on it the turn it tries to setup and you will leave it in a awkward position.

 

Well i see whats your argument.

 

So yes in worst case scenario u lose one Poke to gothitelle, cause u cant switch out. Like defensive Lanturn, tentacruel or smth similar. Its lost, bye bye. Thats shadow tag. If u face a set-up Talonflame/Blaziken/Azumarill u can switch out. Great.

But where do u switch into? Do u even have a check? Often u have to sac a pokemon, so u get a safe switch-in to deal with it. So u literally lose a poke for free, too.

Well, what i mean is sometimes u are in a disadvantage vs another team, sometimes u have checks and an advantage.

 

If u run a gothitelle setup-fodder like tentacruel/lanturn u better have a solution with u in your team to check her afterwards. Or u lose the battle this time. Or your opponent didnt has a gothitelle. And you are fine. Same goes for all the other setup-threads in my opinion.

The risk u take as gothitelle user is that u waste a whole Team-Slot for gothitelle if your opponent doesnt carry a setup-fodder for her. And thats happening more often as u might think. Cause she is more useless than all the other pokes mentioned in this thread cause she relies on a setup. And as i said there arent that many as if she would have trick-choice, where u can at least cripple anything u want.

Then she is doing literally nth and stays in the pokeball until u get finished off. Thats why i never use her. I just dont see the value all "gothitelle-haters" here see.

If u get mixed vs a stall-team, congratulations u have been lucky and can most likely punish him.

253303 (which is nearly impossible due to no team preview)

 

Yep, i totally agree. Thats why PRO-PvP should be even more uncompetitive as showdown or other battle-simulators. Until a specific point u cant make a strategy cause u dont know whats your win-condition. But still ppl manage to reach win-rates from 5:1 or even better. Thats cause they are experienced enough to build a successful team cause they know that many, many important PvP- items/abilities/moves arent working and can abuse this. Matchmaking has a big role here too. So without team preview, PRO-PvP gonna become a nice luck fest if all the stuff is working.;) But thats a bit off topic now. :P

 

 

If u all want gothitelle banned, sure, just do it.

I was planning to test out some kinda stall team in near future anyway cause i think thats the ultimate answer in PRO to deal with the big amount of typical Hax why u sometimes lose and so i have one thing less to worry about while team-building. Still not sure, if it works out, but ill see.^^ And if u all like to see more stall again, cause ppl arent afraid to face a goth from time to time, and like to have long fights in this young unevolved PvP-Meta, where Regenerator/Leftovers are working while Choice-Items, SheerForce/Iron fist etc -abis are missing, a gothitelle-ban clearly helps u with that. :)

[Tro11z]

I've never used Goth and I don't see why it has high usage. I have come up against it so many times and each time it either only kills one Pokemon or can't even kill my Blissey. It is honestly so easy to counter even without wall breaking items.

[Einheria]

253331

253313 i don`t play gothy and i am against banning it, since all of people from here are playing slowbrow/blissey and all the tanks/regenerators and other boring/unfair things like stallers and all sort of those pokemons :>. You want ban gothy, i an ban slowbrow and so on as an exemple, deal with it as long as it don`t affects the abuse of an ability/move that is not working correctly. Just deal with it and stop crying about it ^^

 

i agree what Eli say, most of the guys who are crying about gothi are staller players, or those sort of pokes. and , tbh gothi can get rekt by a lots of poke ;)

 

Actually, the only guys i've seen crying so far are those who desperately need Goth to stay in order to deter people from running stall teams. I mean, i really hate stall, it's boring as f*ck and nobody really enjoys spending one hour on a battle full of recover/roost/heal beal/defog/regenerator. But hey, it's an official playstyle (btw, stall teams can still be beaten w/o broken mon or abilities, the top ladder on showdown is dominated by balanced or offensive oriented teams), with this type of reasoning, why not allowing things like Primal Groudon or Arceus to completely make sure that no stall teams will be able to withstand you? Yeah, it's an excessive example, i concede that but i was just showing that these words can be taken for something like "stall is evil so everything that can destroy it is welcomed".

 

Personnaly, i don't care if Goth gets banned or not. Sure it is strong but without the scarf and trick, it is not totally broken. It's just the "i hate stall, i don't want to fight stall so i want it to stay just to deny this playstyle" argument which bugs me a bit even if i can't stand stall teams likewise.

 

But i will also be partial. With the lack of choice items and life orb atm, breaking through full stall team can be a real pain since you clearly miss some wallbreaking potential. So i can understand why some of you want it to remain.

253326 To the previous comment: I'm sure you got atleast 2 pokemons Gothitelle can setup in. + Your Prankster Sableye wouldnt stand on his feet too long against a +6 gothitelle unless you're surprisingly lucky with the confusion.

 

In fact, Gothitelle cannot do anything to Sableye since it only runs Psychic/Psyshock as an offensive move (Calm mind, Rest, Thunder wave, Psychic/Psyshock) so yes, any dark type will counter it. You can drop T-Wave for a coverage move but it will suffer at setting up and at resting without the help of paralysis on Blissey.

253343 Yep, i totally agree. Thats why PRO-PvP should be even more uncompetitive as showdown or other battle-simulators. Until a specific point u cant make a strategy cause u dont know whats your win-condition. But still ppl manage to reach win-rates from 5:1 or even better. Thats cause they are experienced enough to build a successful team cause they know that many, many important PvP- items/abilities/moves arent working and can abuse this. Matchmaking has a big role here too. So without team preview, PRO-PvP gonna become a nice luck fest if all the stuff is working.;) But thats a bit off topic now. :P

 

 

If u all want gothitelle banned, sure, just do it.

I was planning to test out some kinda stall team in near future anyway cause i think thats the ultimate answer in PRO to deal with the big amount of typical Hax why u sometimes lose and so i have one thing less to worry about while team-building. Still not sure, if it works out, but ill see.^^ And if u all like to see more stall again, cause ppl arent afraid to face a goth from time to time, and like to have long fights in this young unevolved PvP-Meta, where Regenerator/Leftovers are working while Choice-Items, SheerForce/Iron fist etc -abis are missing, a gothitelle-ban clearly helps u with that. :)

 

It's hard to disagree with this. ;)