Re: Scientology General Discussion

[Red]

 

Again, what is written of Hubbard is not necessarily truth. He has been slandered and history rewritten by specific groups to lead people away from us. It is not that his understanding of mathematics, chemistry, and physics were wrong, but he simply knew of laws that science itself doesn't know yet, and these secrets are held close to only the highest ranking Church officials.

Written or not those appears to be actual facts. One can't say that proven fact is not necessarily truth given that is a proven fact that can or doesnt have to be truth. His laws were based on something that was later proven to be fake and wrong, both mathematically and Physics wise. There was an interview with his own son who ended up confessing that his whole life and theories were fake, bias based and money making schematics.His sons claims were backed up with evidence and tapes. Same goes for being addicted to certain substances, such as drugs and medications himself deemed unmoral. Wonder why he did not resorted to Scientologist system of "healing". You don't really need anyone to tell you this, you know? Don't take me wrong here. I don't do bias. I am telling you actual events that took places and were backed up with proper evidences.

 

If you really want my few words for any religion I will give you some; Personally, I am totally against people being forced to go into certain religious group. How about we give them some time until they are able to use their own free will and decide what suits best for them and their life style? I respect every religion, they all have valid points but there is barely any religion that took best of other religions out there and made it as one. There might be some pseudo religions that tried to do something similar, however, they ended up changing previously obtain valuable facts on the way they like. You can't really think high of any religion/pseudo-religion if you constantly try to get people on your side as you only tell them one side of a coin. Remember coin has two sides. Do you think that Mercedes as a company knocks on other people door asking them to decide for Mercedes as they are trying to make say BMW to have more sullied image. >I don't think so. Mercedes and BMW barely advertise because they obviously don't need any. Good product needs no advertising and promotion. If that is a case, we are talking about people wanting more money equals with them not being happy with what they have. Mercedes uses awesome tactic; 1000 sold car, usually one or two of those 1000 will fail before time which is known that will fail. What does that mean? Other 998/999 users will barely buy that fact because they are satisfied with their car who serves them well. Now take that person who had Mercedes failing on them, they will simply go to nearest Mercedes selling center and get parts swapped and walk away happy. So what do we have here is; Mercedes making use of several fail cars that were supposed to go into junk and they made use of a service where end user had to pay good part of it. Another meaning; They made sure at least 20 of their high tier employers are getting payed from something that was not even supposed to be sold in a first place. That is one awesome system that works. I struggled some times figuring it out though. But that is the case.

 

Similar goes for religion. From what I can see and read; Person who started Scientology stuff never managed it to make it religion, given it was never recognized. You can label it something like "pseudo/mini religion". World had several billions of people and crazy stuff are always going on. Of course there will be handful of people who won't be satisfied. That being said; Take for example several messengers of a God; Jesus Christ, Muhammad and other messengers of certain religions such as Hinduism. You will find so many valid points in every one of them. No wonder number of their followers is rather huge and there is a reason for that. I can sit and talk with everyone, don't care what religion, I respect everyone. At the end of a day we are talking about people who have mind on their own. I know so many good people from every religion who are smart and can be talked with. Just because they are in other religion that does not make them less humans. After all, we all die, we all smell bad. Don't forget; Whole life we stomp on maggots but at the end, maggots are ones who will eat the leg that used to stomp on them, usually starting from eyes. They don't care about eye color or skin or gender, they digest everything as once your beloved ones are slowly replacing you. Fun fact; maggots do not care which car you had, you are still tasty for them. Human die when they are forgotten, not when their heart stop beating and life with regrets is not a life, it is existence. Exist and live are totally different things.

 

Regardless of the life of Hubbard himself, what his life was does not change or affect the validity of his teachings. Nobody said that science and The Chuch of Scientology are the same, for science is simply a low level way to attempt and explain phenomena beyond the comprehension of our mortal bodies. Again, knowledge beyond science was made aware to us Scientologists ever since Hubbard, science itself is merely an illusion.

To my knowledge, science explains things that can be proven via physics, thing you can actually see and feel and so on. That being said, your statement makes little sense. When I was very little I made Tesla Coil without even knowing who Tesla was for instance. Given my achievemnt, I could feel it and explain it and put it into practice. I was annoyed when I learned about Nikola Tesla already did similar thing. Well, then again I was 7 or so he was around 30ish.

 

You may say there's no reason to believe Scientology, but unlike other religions, it provides higher understanding that cannot be faked.

Ok so, you say it provides higher understanding that cannot be faked...Right so, where is common sense there if Scientology itself was proven to be fake and wrong too many times to begin with. Proven by experts and majority and world leading and superior religions. Starting from it's founder all the way to things they tried to put in practice it was all proven to be rather fake. heck, even his own son confessed on whole thing being nothing more or less than a hoax to make money out of it. But oh well, one must to learn how to see things different and from several angels.

 

- I also noticed that in Scientology people often use term "free will of a choice" like every other religion? Right so, yet you share the hate say towards gay people and bullying them. And often saying that they are a gay because God hates them not because God wanted them to be a gay or they wanted so. What are you talking about here is lack of free will to choose. As a kid, I was taught that being gay is wrong and it is against religions stood for. With time, I realized we are in 21st century and that people are free to choose. I had few people to open my eyes. I admit, I was indeed very outrageous on gay people wanting to burn every one of them. However, with the time I opened myself and opened myself to dear people who opened my eyes and I was able to look at it different. I ended up feeling sorry for what I did and thought about them in past. Remember I live in a place where being gay is labeled as mental disease and you are being put into insitution if you are found being gay. If you kill a rapist you go in prison, if you kill a gay you get financial aid. I can't count how many gay people gets killed on a daily basics. With the time I ended up thinking different, not one sided or single minded. We are talking about people having free will here. God themselves let people to have free will and use it on their own. What are you doing here is standing against God itself. I hear many times, Scientology people saying that Hitler wanted to exterminate them during WW2 and that Hitler is an embodiment of evil itself. Hitler did indeed exterminated good number of Jews, gays and "non pure" people deeming them "wrong". Now tell me, why would you dislike people like Hitler if Scientology itself is strongly opposing to being gay. Even saying that USA is doing wars for gay people. Makes little sense to me honestly. On another side, what Hitler did no matter if it was good or bad he indeed changed the world and number of Nazis even today is a lot larger in numbers than number of Scientologists. Remember and don't forget it ever. If he managed to take over whole world he would be one labeled as a person who is right. Weak men do not choose how they will die. At the end, good or bad, whoever wins will be justice and will be right because obviously other side vanished. This is how world works, even today. Whoever wins a battle will be a hero and Justice no matter of they were on good or bad sad prior that battle.

---

 

- On a side note I am going to tell you several things about me;

As a person who is autistic, more precisely-High Functioning autism and diagnosed with Asperger Syndrome who is deep into the spectrum. I can tell you things you are not able to see or fathom given that every autistic person is able to look at things a lot different than neurotypicals. People often look from one angle or two, even if they manage to look at things from say 5 angels they are good. Me, I look at things from thousands of angels and eventually I am able to create a picture of something which at the end will be a lot different than one you did. I tend to be obsessed with details and go in things in depth. That is how I function and that is my routine. You see, as a kid; I spent almost 5 years in orphanage for "different" kids. Kids that were considered to be outcasts, different, retarded and unable to express themselves and unable to function in their society. Given that my parents weren't able to raise me back them due to innocent circumstances and I don't really mind them. >After all, they took me again after some time. That place was a place where kids are being helped and taught to do certain things to be able to function with everyday people. I saw a lot of science and psychiatrists there and I really can't say anything bad about them. I came out different, able to function. At the age of 7 I was labeled as a kid Prodigy who knew several languages and had different way of thinking and processing things. I was several times in newspapers and won many competitions in school and I was often called a little professor, fun thing is that I never actually studied anything in particular. At age of 9, I designed a special system for giving water to plants, same system is used today around place where I once lived. I often looked upon certain people who actually exists to help me out to process things. What I believe in is what one is capable to do with their own hands and will as they are being able to give a respect to people who think different. It is not easy to understand autistic person, its rare case where autistic person is fully understood. However, what I do is return double amount of respect given to me so as understanding. If normal person is understanding me I will return them double and there is where you get a nice relationship and balance, no hate no bias. However, that all sounds nice and useful but there is also other side of a coin. I might be different and all that but I pay good price for it; such as severe lack of interest for social skills and socializing in general, meltdowns, sensory over-stimulation, unable to function properly at times in a society, aggressive fit, often have troubles talking about things that are normal to other people same as understanding basic things what are basic for you. And yet, funny really; no one ever explained autism, no one knows how one gets it nor if there is a "cure" for it. No one ever managed to go into the autistic brain, no person, no scientist, no religion, no one. Hell with the cure, I am proud on my autism and I don't want any change. Today same people that once I used to be a retard to they give me huge portion of respect around me. Even though, it's not easy to go in public without throwing a fit.

 

- Christian, Muslims, Hindus and so on; they all make sense and they all have one thing in common and that is a struggle and believing in something greater, way beyond brain can process. That is proven to help and give people clarity and harmony. And as said, at the end of day we are all humans and it would be nice if everyone is able to understand each others. I know so many good people from those religions. But you know, nothing is perfect. We are yet to see something perfect.

 

Please, don't feel insulted, harassed and bullied here. I am only stating you the facts that has nothing to do with me. This is not the first time I am dealing with hollow psychology. I would like to tell you more, especially what I currently see. But hey, I can't do that. I can't have an impact on the path you are wanting to choose. Things are to come naturally. Don't forget; when I asked you What is Scientology High Priest, means I wanted to spark one nice and interesting discussion. Not that I don't know what it is. I am aware that you know that though. But as said, how about you guys try to understand each others and have something like "universal approach" to things in generally. Lets not make this a street with posters about things being good and bad. Try to make it civil much as you can.

 

Nikola

[Enki]

Hello, I am a Scientology High Priest. I'm here to share in discussion amongst fellow members, as well as spread the word to those ignorant. I am willing to answer many questions, however, I cannot divulge church secrets.

 

Praise be to the infinite god, consuming us all and freeing us from mortal coil. Only those who can understand the truth will be freed. All others will suffer.

 

Was Stan really the reincarnation of L. Ron Hubbard? And why did Tom Cruise and John Travolta want to stay in the closet?

[Thor]

If any believers did commit any acts which could be interpreted as "evil", I assure you, it is for a good cause.

 

Well that's all I needed to see to know that this post is BS

 

Kinda sounds like a certain other regilious group that features heavily in the news recently.

 

I am a realist (u could call me an athiest, however i prefer to align to no group whatsoever). I believe that the foundations of all religions are stupid. Some may have some truth to them, for example christianity there MAY have been a man called jesus who lived in isreal about 2000 or so years ago. But guess what. I wont be swayed by your obvious lack of intelegence and common sense. You guys have a good imagination though :) so keep on imagining that things are real. Maybe one day if i imagined i could fly, have super strength and be invulnerable it might happen :) (this is an analogy of general religious faith btw).

 

I respect people are unique and can follow what they want, but dont by all means try and force rubbish on others. I wont allow it here.

[Lordebola]

If any believers did commit any acts which could be interpreted as "evil", I assure you, it is for a good cause.

 

Well that's all I needed to see to know that this post is BS

 

Kinda sounds like a certain other regilious group that features heavily in the news recently.

 

I am a realist (u could call me an athiest, however i prefer to align to no group whatsoever). I believe that the foundations of all religions are stupid. Some may have some truth to them, for example christianity there MAY have been a man called jesus who lived in isreal about 2000 or so years ago. But guess what. I wont be swayed by your obvious lack of intelegence and common sense. You guys have a good imagination though :) so keep on imagining that things are real. Maybe one day if i imagined i could fly, have super strength and be invulnerable it might happen :) (this is an analogy of general religious faith btw).

 

I respect people are unique and can follow what they want, but dont by all means try and force rubbish on others. I wont allow it here.

 

My reply to him was more generalized. To say that there is no evil in any group, even if it's just one person in a very large group, is a very false statement. Attempting to cover that up by saying that the heinous acts in the group were actually for a good cause in the long run is a complete and utter fallacy, or perhaps just outright ignorance. That's all I needed to see to know that OP isn't actually a member of the Church of Scientology, if he's denying a basic psychological law.

 

As for my personal beliefs, you and I and many others have the same base fundamentals, though I take my personal beliefs in a slightly different direction. I don't believe that any of the Earthly religions, such as Christianity, Hindu, Islam, etc. are true, save Buddhism, since Buddhism is more about yourself and being the best person that you can be. I believe that a higher power may exist, but not in the way that we think it does. To me, it seems ludicrous that a God would have so much interjection in Earth when Earth is one tiny planet in the overall universe.

 

I do think Jesus may have existed 2,000 years ago, but I believe he was more of a philosopher, and the beliefs such as him being a healer were lost in translation and over time.

 

Regardless, OP is a big fat phony. Nothing to see here folks.

[Lordebola]

There's all kinds of government cover ups designed to hide our truth from people.

 

Releasing evidence is not a government cover-up, that is the complete opposite. The government has no role in this; the evidence provided is not from the government.

[Lordebola]

[pop]This thread might contain heavy religion based discussion. By pressing OK you are agreeing not to troll, insult, bully and harass people who might have different religion. Please follow the general rules as well. THIS THREAD IS BEING FLAGGED AND NOT RECOMMENDED FOR MEMBERS YOUNGER THAN 18.[/pop]

There's all kinds of government cover ups designed to hide our truth from people.

 

Releasing evidence is not a government cover-up, that is the complete opposite. The government has no role in this; the evidence provided is not from the government.

It is a coverup, they're releasing false evidence and hiding the real truth from people. Obviously you don't think it's from them, if it was obvious it was from them the coverup would be too easy to know about.

 

Conspiracy theory, a logical fallacy.

 

Do you know where McDonald's soft serve ice cream comes from? No? Must be a government cover-up.

[Jhaxion]

I feel like there will be an increase of topics like this in offtopic forum. Guess trolls from other communities will always be trolls no matter where they are from. Stop feeding them they'll go away.

[Lordebola]

Conspiracy theory, a logical fallacy.

 

Do you know where McDonald's soft serve ice cream comes from? No? Must be a government cover-up.

It is not a mere theory, the basis for it isn't simply made up. I even provided leaked files as evidence. If you don't want to seriously consider what I'm saying, then don't reply to the thread.

 

I was referring to the logical fallacy behind conspiracy theories. Here's a description from this website, the part in bold is the fallacy:

 

"Explaining that your claim cannot be proven or verified because the truth is being hidden and/or evidence destroyed by a group of two or more people. When that reason is challenged as not being true or accurate, the challenge is often presented as just another attempt to cover up the truth, and presented as further evidence that the original claim is true."

 

I read your leaked file. Here's the problem. Even on the SCP Wiki it says:

 

"The SCP Wiki is a collaborative urban fantasy writing website about the fictional SCP Foundation..."

 

So what did you link me? A non-fiction writing website. Congratulations.

 

And on top of that, guess what I found? If you Google "fifth church government cover up" that specific SCP story is the first result you find. So I'm willing to bet you Googled that in 2 minutes without even fact checking.

 

Here's a link to the search: https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&rlz=1C1CHFX_enUS603US603&ion=1&espv=2&es_th=1&ie=UTF-8#q=fifth+church+government+cover+up

[Guest Oliverx93]

All i have to say. LOL =lots of laugh xD

[Lordebola]

 

I was referring to the logical fallacy behind conspiracy theories. Here's a description from this website, the part in bold is the fallacy:

 

"Explaining that your claim cannot be proven or verified because the truth is being hidden and/or evidence destroyed by a group of two or more people. When that reason is challenged as not being true or accurate, the challenge is often presented as just another attempt to cover up the truth, and presented as further evidence that the original claim is true."

 

I read your leaked file. Here's the problem. Even on the SCP Wiki it says:

 

"The SCP Wiki is a collaborative urban fantasy writing website about the fictional SCP Foundation..."

 

So what did you link me? A non-fiction writing website. Congratulations.

 

As someone with close ties to the owners of that website, I assure you it's factual. The disclaimer is simply there to protect themselves from being attacked and located as a serious threat to government secrecy.

 

From their FAQ:

 

Q: Is SCP real?

 

A: No. We are a creative writing website. All the SCPs are fictional. The Foundation is fictional.

 

You're definitely not a very good troll. At least put forth some effort my friend.

 

At this point, although I know I have no jurisdiction, I believe this topic should be locked. This person has been discredited enough and all of his arguments can be summed up simply by him saying "no you're wrong" without providing any evidence. This topic has provided nothing for anybody, and in fact I think it's actually harmful to keep this up. It's an embarrassment to Scientology, and I'm not even a Scientologist.

 

My work here is done.