Manaphy in ranked PVP

[Ta7esh]

Just like a pelipper wouldnt stay in front of an electric type, the same would be from a torkoal/ninetales to a volcarona, letting it setup qds if youre not hypnosis/yawn/roar is just and im sorry for the vulgar expression, plain stupid. Again you're using anecdotes with "Ive tried it before" to prove your point on a general topic, that is worthless information that should easily be neglected.

 

Chansey is definitely NOT the only counter to rain as basic balance cores between chansey/phys def tang or options like tentacruel, mantine, slowking are all great against rain, ive told this before, i dont know why you're ingnoring it.

 

Yes i get your point regarding other rain encounters... we lost the point of the debate here.

 

using anecdotes is to create some kind of credibility.

 

Have a good day

[Ta7esh]

HAHA

 

No. If you don't have a single * clue about anything pvp related then you should not partake in decisions regarding what's best for the pvp in a game. Unless you either have laddered on showdown or in PRO then your opinion is completely worthless no matter how you twist it. That goes for any pvp discussion in any pokemon game. Why would anyone care about an opinion of someone who literally can't get ladder in a game where there are only a handful of players who know what they're doing. That's why if you don't enjoy the boring meta and competetive spirit of this game you can prove yourself worthy to make decisions based on showdown laddering experiance. Also, below 300 would be considered low ladder imo, maybe even below 350. Literally anyone can get ladder in this game no matter how bad they are in this game which is the sad truth. There was one terrible guy for example who managed to get a spot after wasting his life on playing 1.8k games in a month which proves my point about not even every ladder player knows what they're doing and just click click click. If you haven't proved your ability to pvp then you can obviously speak your mind but it has no place in the actual discussion between those who actually want to improve the game and know how to do so. But that is another discussion in a thread called PVP Council.

 

Also, you made several responses about how rain is unfair.

 

"Im stating that the main problem is with rain not with Manaphy. "

 

"Exactly in fact I mean both of what youve stated. Manaphy is annoying with rain however the core problem here is " Rain "

 

"

Rain in all its glory has no contest because:

 

-many abusers (Swift Swim, Rain Dish, Dry Skin, Hydration)

-most abusers are water type, so they get an extra x1.5 to their already STAB water attacks,

-so Swift Swimmers essentially have a +1 to water attacks and +2 to speed in rain

-no miss Thunder and Hurricane

-fire attacks' base power reduced by 50%, making steel, especially 4x fire-weak steels like Ferrothorn and Scizor, excellent teammates "

 

XDDDDDDDD

 

Oh and "I didnt get your comment regarding mamos speed? and Scarfed Mamo is for ada nt jolly inorder to hit Max attack. " just no. Do not do that unless you are bad and want to lose / give free rating to others.

 

If you want to reply trying to show what an actual problem is and why, give legitimate reasons to why and not obvious cons about it that a baby can see and make replace false statements with true.

 

"Chansey is the only counter maybe to Rain team, but yea it can be dealt with yet even electric typing cant directly deal with them. even if he started with pelipper there is no way he wont switch in for another pokemon if he was facing an electric pokemon. "

 

So first you say Chansey is the only counter to rain which is false. There's ferrothorn, tangrowth, rotom-wash, weather changes, gastrodon, amoonguss, breloom. But then you also contradict yourself.

 

Last but not least, pokemon is not necessarily balanced all the time. Wether it is balanced right now in this game can be discussed. That's what this thread is for. But just look at different showdown tiers and how they always ban things depending on the meta with zygarde in OU as one of the most recent bans. A meta in pokemon needs to be balanced after bans and it has always needed that. In this game this was sadly never the case and which is why monsters like Bisharp without team preview, Talonflame, Dugtrio(arena trap), Gothitelle (shadow tag), Blaziken (speed boost) and now Manaphy. Luckily they have dealt with all these mons in some way, but some of the changes took way too long time. My point is, do not be ignorant and think that pokemon always is balanced.

 

Well this is your opinion and if your that easy to ladder up im waiting to see you in top 5 atleast.

 

And if you havent tried a certain strategy like Mamo with scarf why are you even discussing it. anywyayz we are out of topic.

 

I would like to debate with you some other day only if you take things more seriously.

 

Have a good day

[Baganha]

Yes i get your point regarding other rain encounters... we lost the point of the debate here.

 

using anecdotes is to create some kind of credibility.

 

Have a good day

 

The problem with anecdotes is that there isnt much credibility from them to begin with, you can say "ive never lost to a team with manaphy" but what exactly does that bring to this discussion? We dont know how skilled your opponents were, if they had a good set, if they had a pvpable manaphy, or even if you're telling the truth (not saying you werent but you understand my point). Its a very shady argument that cannot be taken with a lot of weight.

[Imtrippin]

Well this is your opinion and if your that easy to ladder up im waiting to see you in top 5 atleast.

 

And if you havent tried a certain strategy like Mamo with scarf why are you even discussing it. anywyayz we are out of topic.

 

I would like to debate with you some other day only if you take things more seriously.

 

Have a good day

 

Sure, I might try in summer when I try out this game again unless I get bored as usual. I have nothing to prove as a player but I'll make sure to hit you up if the meta is fun enough to play in so I can try laddering once. And no, don't ever run scarf Mamoswine, it's just bad. There are reasons to why you are at 200 rating and that might be one of them.

[Docjp]

i also agree with you, and im also going to stop playing until we either ban manaphy, or get the mons we need to face him (toxapex, mega venusaur, or tapu fini - lele, etc)

[Ta7esh]

Sure, I might try in summer when I try out this game again unless I get bored as usual. I have nothing to prove as a player but I'll make sure to hit you up if the meta is fun enough to play in so I can try laddering once. And no, don't ever run scarf Mamoswine, it's just bad. There are reasons to why you are at 200 rating and that might be one of them.

 

Sure if thats what you say Mr.top ladder

[Baganha]

I guess ill make a quick update here since pro introduced new things such as weakness berries and gems, these berries, while a pretty neat addition, dont give much to stop manaphy's desctructive capabilities, it would only further its centralisation by making mons like slowbro, amoonguss or even rotom-w sacrificing their items for this weakness berry only to just pseudo-check it. As for gems i've also found nothing that revolutionary that would keep manaphy on its toes, but hey if there is anything regarding this or manaphy in general you want to bring up for discussion, feel free to do so.

[Johncampita211]

Johncampita211 Blaziken was Banned Because it was technically "Uber" because of its ability. Just like Dugtrio's Areana trap. As For breloom it doesnt even need Sash to beat Manaphy. All it needs is 80 ev's in spedf to live any move Manaphy wants to throw at it. Baganha, i was never talking about 6v1 battle. I was just listing mons that could ohko it or wall it. They obviously have other purposes then just countering manaphy there's no such thing as a one trick Pokemon, and by your logic then i could name a few pokemon that would seem "bannable" in your eyes.

 

Like Serperior (which can live a ice beam and then take out manaphy) Most teams dont have one since it is only in the pve shop or boss rewards but there are still very good ones out there. A serperior can completely run through a team if your not careful. Just like manaphy, Serperior has its checks and balances such as ha azu.

 

In battle you should always think what mons can take out other mons. Is "random" mon even useful in this battle, can i sack it? I Think if i lose "this" mon i lose to "opponents" mon and he just sweeps me. But if i can take out this "oppenents" mon then my "mon" can 2 or one shot anything.

 

Im not saying you need to build a team around countering one mon. I am saying That in order to Learn to counter a mon you should either take the time knowing what it can do and which of your mons can take it out. I also recommend you play showdown with a friend using pro teams using manaphy. The best way to see what can take out manaphy is playing with it.

LOL you gonna put sp def in breloom ? Cmon. We all know that manaphy is op in rain team dont be blind even chansey and unaware clefable cant stop that manaphy.The only possible way to stop manaphy is to use hyper offense team (priority moves) but It can take down your atleast 2 or 3 poke or even your whole team if you let him tail glow in the rain with its ability hydration + rest .Every pokemon in PRO has a counter and checks. As of now manaphy is op because mega evolution is not coded yet(i know someday) and also gen. 7 is not in pro yet all of these can counter and check manaphy

[Johncampita211]

Rain is not near broken. It's just a noob sweeper that beats unskilled opponents quick. If you're up against an actual good player I'd say rain might even be bad. And @iceflake, learn the difference between a soft check and an actual counter. Like "As For breloom it doesnt even need Sash to beat Manaphy. All it needs is 80 ev's in spedf to live any move Manaphy wants to throw at it". HAHA. So let's picture the scenario real quick. The opponent switches in manaphy against your Gliscor. You need the discord to not get swept by another mon in the back, Manaphy either attacks or sets up while you switch to Breloom and you lose no matter which one the opponent chooses. If it has set up then you can't even revenge kill it. I'm genuinely wondering what your thought process was while writing your post if you even had one.

 

Serperior and Manaphy are not similar.

 

If you believe that something needs to be sacked every time Manaphy is brought it you're contradicting yourself since a meta where something needs to be sacked because of 1 mon that doesn't have a switch in is not healthy. Either that or you don't know how to build/steal good teams. "Im not saying you need to build a team around countering one mon". Except if you can literally get 1v6ed by a certain pokemon then maybe there is a problem with your team, especially since I can imagine the very few players with some IQ in this game who still pvp would abuse it if they cared. Basically being unstoppable because nobody is improving or using good teams except them which is uncompetetive. "The best way to see what can take out manaphy is playing with it." Yes dude, make those casuals use manaphy, stay in on Ferrothorn power whips without setting up and just ice beaming twice and think "oh Ferrothorn is an excellent counter!"

 

?XD

Yeah agree serperior and manaphy are not similar.

[Heroofthestreet]

I haven't read all the comments (as there are obviously too many of them), but the thing is, not that we only don't have the tools to adequately deal with manaphy (tons of good legendaries and all megas), the resources we have to deal with it are very limited. Let's say I want to use a serperior or latios to check it. For serperior i need to buy a black ms, grind for hours to get a h.a one which then turns out to be trash or decent at best. Let's say it's actually epic, still useless as it didn't receive hp fire or ground. For the other you need to fill the whole pokedex just to potentially get trash ivs again and then waste tons of money for reroll tickets which still doesn't guarantee it will be properly usable. That being said, in such a slow meta which lacks good scarfers and megas, base 100 speed for a really bulky and threatening mon is already too much. Not to mention, they added protean greninja out of nowhere while half of the legendaries from BW that were actually OU during that period are still missing in PRO (a quick reminder, manaphy was in ubers during BW). I haven't played the game for like half a year, yet surprisingly, even tho protean greninja has a few real counters (with which all it can actually deal depending on the coverage it's carrying) it dropped in usage, most likely just because for most of the people playing PRO conkeldurr being one of the most used mons that has access to a strong mach punch is actually a major dealbreaker (or for similar reasons). They haven't thought about the impact greninja would have for the meta then (didn't even want to hear about it being banned) and obviously they haven't learned from their old mistakes. As said previously, it is just pure luck people actually don't know how to team build about greninja properly, so it's not that threatening and it's dropping more and more. Same thing was happening with speed boost blaziken and dugtrio until people actually started abusing them more and more and until they nerfed talonflame. By this point i'm completely aware that whoever picks what the next legendary that will enter pvp will be has either no clue about the PRO pvp scene or just doesn't care about it at all