PRO's PvP inconsistencies in regards to move/ability combinations

[Gdarch]

Guys, you are misunderstanding the whole situation.

The topic of this thread is the Impossible combination of Abilities/moves, not the comparison with Smogon tier list. The topic of this thread is not about Pokemon that have been put in UBER tier in Gen 7, but the combination of moves and abilities that cannot be obtainable in the Pokemon games normally.

I will make you an Example:

 

In generation one THERE WERE NO ABILITIES.

Machamp could learn the move Fissure in Generation 1, cause Fissure was a TM back in the days.

Fissure TM has been removed in the next generations.

With the PokeBank and Pokemon Red/blue/Yellow in virtual console on Nintendo 3DS, a Machamp from Pokemon Red/blue/Yellow can be transfered to the new games, but it will hold only his Hidden ability(it's a rule of these transfers).

Now, in Gen7 Pokemon Games we can have a Machamp with fissure, but the only ability available for that Machamp is Steadfast.

So, it's IMPOSSIBLE to find a Machamp No Guard + Fissure.

Extend this thing to all pokemons that have the same problem and u get the topic of this thread.

 

 

This is not to discuss tier lists, but to discuss about impossible combinations. Spend more than 2 minutes to read please.

 

Even with your excellent example, I’m sure some people will come again with PRO meta, smogon blabla ...

[Cam]

Pokémon in PRO have the same stats, abilities and movepools than Gamefreak, why should we allow these illegal combinations? This is not about differentiating us from Smogon, this is about following the original games mechanics. I think we should keep illegal combinations banned.

[Destro16]

Guys, you are misunderstanding the whole situation.

The topic of this thread is the Impossible combination of Abilities/moves, not the comparison with Smogon tier list. The topic of this thread is not about Pokemon that have been put in UBER tier in Gen 7, but the combination of moves and abilities that cannot be obtainable in the Pokemon games normally.

I will make you an Example:

 

In generation one THERE WERE NO ABILITIES.

Machamp could learn the move Fissure in Generation 1, cause Fissure was a TM back in the days.

Fissure TM has been removed in the next generations.

With the PokeBank and Pokemon Red/blue/Yellow in virtual console on Nintendo 3DS, a Machamp from Pokemon Red/blue/Yellow can be transfered to the new games, but it will hold only his Hidden ability(it's a rule of these transfers).

Now, in Gen7 Pokemon Games we can have a Machamp with fissure, but the only ability available for that Machamp is Steadfast.

So, it's IMPOSSIBLE to find a Machamp No Guard + Fissure.

Extend this thing to all pokemons that have the same problem and u get the topic of this thread.

 

 

This is not to discuss tier lists, but to discuss about impossible combinations. Spend more than 2 minutes to read please.

 

 

+100.

[Blissey]

I feel it should be a case-by-case basis.

 

Pokemon being able to learn cross-generation moves or learn moves with any ability they have access to is one of the things that makes PRO unique. If you were to just say "No, we should be just like the main series games and Showdown.", then...what would compel anyone to play PRO PvP when the barrier to entry is much higher, the metagame is much more stale due to uncoded moves/abilities, and there's a much less active community? (And no, "consistency" doesn't sound like a good reason to me, because there are other things not kept consistent between PRO and the mainline games.) PRO needs something to set it apart from the much more polished (main series titles) and much more accessible (Showdown) options, and creating its own unique environment based off a potential "what if...?" scenario makes for quite a compelling reason to play PRO PvP over other available options.

 

Sure this may not be about the metagame, but why then do the staff want to only consider the opinions of the top 25 in ranked PvP, should they take it on a case-by-case basis? It'd be ignorant to not even consider the implications it would have on the metagame when this would only impact PvP.

[Abygaelle]

1. Let capable players vote for every single scenario, this way the community has a say in it as well.
   

 

 

This idea is the best but how you choose the players ? Top 25 sorry Qeight, but this isn't an option. its not cause you are/were in this "top" that you are capable to take a good decision for pvp. How can a player give an advice if he can play only 20 pokemons ?

 

I think a capable players can play around more than 60 pokemon lvl 100 ev train ( all different) and ready to pvp. A player who can build around 10-12 different team with different pokemon. All can go in ladder with 6 pokemon and this type of player could give his opinion for ban or not. Sorry i really can't agree with that. They are just going to destroy pvp.

[Intoccabil3]

Guys, you are misunderstanding the whole situation.

The topic of this thread is the Impossible combination of Abilities/moves, not the comparison with Smogon tier list. The topic of this thread is not about Pokemon that have been put in UBER tier in Gen 7, but the combination of moves and abilities that cannot be obtainable in the Pokemon games normally.

I will make you an Example:

 

In generation one THERE WERE NO ABILITIES.

Machamp could learn the move Fissure in Generation 1, cause Fissure was a TM back in the days.

Fissure TM has been removed in the next generations.

With the PokeBank and Pokemon Red/blue/Yellow in virtual console on Nintendo 3DS, a Machamp from Pokemon Red/blue/Yellow can be transfered to the new games, but it will hold only his Hidden ability(it's a rule of these transfers).

Now, in Gen7 Pokemon Games we can have a Machamp with fissure, but the only ability available for that Machamp is Steadfast.

So, it's IMPOSSIBLE to find a Machamp No Guard + Fissure.

Extend this thing to all pokemons that have the same problem and u get the topic of this thread.

 

 

This is not to discuss tier lists, but to discuss about impossible combinations. Spend more than 2 minutes to read please.

That’s exactly what I’ve been trying to say, yet people keep saying “PRO should have a unique meta” and stuff, this is hopeless.

Also how would the META be more diverse if the ones who are succeeding in this META are those who decide the changes? They have all the reasons to leave things as they are and none to actually give a proper opinion... It’s just a bad idea in my opinion and the fact that all those who supported it but one person based their arguments on META and tiers only further proves my point: people shouldn’t vote. The community clearly isn’t mature enough to read a short post and then cast a vote having all the information, how do you expect it to actually balance a game with so many variables?

And all those who mention uncoded and broken stuff, the devs are working on it, sooner or later we’ll have everything

Lastly, you might say this isn’t Pokémon, yet the game is literally named “Pokémon” Revolution Online

I know it’s always fun to live in a world where the players make the balance calls, he’ll I’ve been in the LoL community since season 1, but the truth is making this kind of calls is hard and it has nothing to do with PvP success. The best game analysts are almost never the more successful players, and that’s true in every game.

Edited July 13, 2019 by Intoccabil3

[Qeight]

Deleted all "meta" related comments, you guys are misunderstanding something here. The Gen7OU Showdown thing refers to legality of certain move combinations, this has nothing to do with their meta or our meta. It's about illegality of combinations.

 

Arena Trap, Blaziken or what not are NOT up for discussion, things like Tailglow Phione, Pikachu Surf + H.A/Pre-Evo moves or Gems are up for discussion.

Those things are not allowed in Gen7 OU, they can't be legally obtained, in PRO they can be obtained.

 

The meta is not discussed here, it's not about creating Tier lists, it's about discussing legally of combinations.

Edited July 14, 2019 by Qeight

[Qeight]

This idea is the best but how you choose the players ? Top 25 sorry Qeight, but this isn't an option. its not cause you are/were in this "top" that you are capable to take a good decision for pvp. How can a player give an advice if he can play only 20 pokemons ?

 

I think a capable players can play around more than 60 pokemon lvl 100 ev train ( all different) and ready to pvp. A player who can build around 10-12 different team with different pokemon. All can go in ladder with 6 pokemon and this type of player could give his opinion for ban or not. Sorry i really can't agree with that. They are just going to destroy pvp.

I'll be honest, I don't care if you are the best tournament showdown player, win countless tournaments in showdown. This really does not matter whatsoever to me, this is our game and we have to make decisions for THIS game not for Showdown/Smogon. What is the best way to do it? Let players vote who actually play THIS GAME and reach the Top25 spots.

I think a capable players can play around more than 60 pokemon lvl 100 ev train ( all different) and ready to pv

There are a ton of players who have this and never step into PvP.

All can go in ladder with 6 pokemon and this type of player could give his opinion for ban or not. Sorry i really can't agree with that. They are just going to destroy pvp.

You are well aware that we are discussing "Tailglow Phione" or "Surf Pikachu + H.A/Pre Evo moves" and cases like that. If you really think this will "destroy PvP" then you are so far off what this post is about.

[Intoccabil3]

I'll be honest, I don't care if you are the best tournament showdown player, win countless tournaments in showdown. This really does not matter whatsoever to me, this is our game and we have to make decisions for THIS game not for Showdown/Smogon. What is the best way to do it? Let players vote who actually play THIS GAME and reach the Top25 spots.

There are a ton of players who have this and never step into PvP.

 

You are well aware that we are discussing "Tailglow Phione" or "Surf Pikachu + H.A/Pre Evo moves" and cases like that. If you really think this will "destroy PvP" then you are so far off what this post is about.

It's great you removed the META related comments, but the people who wrote them clearly voted for the "case by case decision" option without even understanding what they were voting for. Doesn't that kind of invalidate this poll? I think you should make a new one with a clearer sentence than "Ban everything, ban every combination that is not valid in a Gen7 OU Showdown team" since "valid" is a very wide term and I think that's at least a part of what led to this confusion...

[Qeight]

It's great you removed the META related comments, but the people who wrote them clearly voted for the "case by case decision" option without even understanding what they were voting for. Doesn't that kind of invalidate this poll? I think you should make a new one with a clearer sentence than "Ban everything, ban every combination that is not valid in a Gen7 OU Showdown team" since "valid" is a very wide term and I think that's at least a part of what led to this confusion...

I was clear from the start, "combination" has nothing to do with banning Arena Trap or anything