h.a. Gothielle needs to be revised

[Troy]

Stop running shitty stall, thats your answer for gothitelle.

Gothitelle alrd in PRO for long long time ago but no one care to use it, you know why? because its not that good pokes to begin with in PRO.

Gothit start to shine when regenerator introduced which makes pokemon like slowbro overpowered and abused by many ladder climber, and Gothit can shut it down completely along with another STALL pokes. In result those stall players get salty, that this threat all about.

Check ladder some poeple even manage to get high win:lose ratio without using that overpowered gothit you mentioned, and if gothit that OP they will never get such win ratio right?

[Irafayel]

Oh look! its that topic again :|

 

I'm gonna list a bunch of pokemon that goth is supposed to counter but cant if they run the following move sets.

 

Starmie - Confuse ray / Thunder wave / Scald / Psyshock

 

It is extremely unlikely that goth will survive psyshock spam after twave + confuse ray.

 

Slowbro - Thunder wave / Calm mind / psyshock /scald

 

Again, after a twave followed up by calm mind spam slowbro will at worst be on par with goth, but will be faster because of twave. 2 psyshock and dead goth. (Goth usually needs 2 tbolts if both have same amount of calm mind spams done to take out slowbro)

 

Lanturn

 

Volt switch. para and confuse combo here as well, but unlike starmie doesnt have psyshock in order to do constant dmg (irrespective of calm mind spam on goth)

Tentacruel

 

Acid Spray

 

Magnezone

 

volt switch / metal sound

 

Roserade / Venusaur - sleep powder / leech seed

 

these 2 dont have it as easy as the others but at least ensure that goth does not kill em off at full health. In rose's case it can at least set up a full set of spikes / toxic spikes

 

Blissey

 

Seismic toss

 

Hum cant think of any others that goth enjoys switching into right now, but these are the main ones anyway. Adapt or perish people, all im saying.

[Coop33]

253572 Allow me to get off-topic a bit : the thing is it's clearly impossible to satisfy everyone. When it comes to a ban, no matter the final decision is, there will be dissatisfied players among pro or con.

 

Its not that off-topic, we are talking about banning smth, so why not talk about how it has to work.

Totally right, u cant satisfy everyone. ;)

But what i mean is: If smth is banned atm (let the + 600 Legend of some staff member stay aside) its cause of their ability is bugged or smth else. So if this is fixed, this pokemon would be playable. Like it was with speed boost pokes recently. No Pokemon is banned atm cause all their abilities/movesets are working as it is supposed to be. Thats why ppl havent been that mad about catching a speed boost pokemon, cause they were sure they could use it in future if fixed.

 

So here u would start smth completly new. Banning a Pokemon forever (or until a new vote). And all what i want is being careful with that topic.

Banning a pokemon out of PRO (yeah sure PvE is still there so u can give it a shot at bosses or unranked pvp, if u have friends or willing guild members) would destroy its value completly. PPl are investing time or money into that, so if they hear they can never us it again, they might get very mad. And u could still use your unbound hoopa in UBER?, not sure what tier it is. And u just clicking your IVs/EVs moves etc in SD. Not in PRO.

And did u ever tried to catch h.a. extremely rare pokemon? I might already have asked u that not sure. xd So even if they got a shadow tag it might not have the best nature/ivs. Ive met one, maybe 2 players using her this season in around 200 games. And im sure i met in at least 50% of the games a blissey, a bit boring but hey.^^

 

But lets go on:

253572 But hey, the majority has voted for a ban so i had to abide by the rules.

 

Imo a vote is a fair way to determine the fate of a suspect pokemon. If most players votes for a ban, then it should be banned and vice versa. The majority has voted for it to remain? Then so be it.

 

Hey if its an official vote with official rules, sure u can accept it or just stop playing (or pvping). Thats how it works. I would accept a gothitelle ban to, wouldnt stop playing (or pvping) cause of this, others might do, who knows.^^

 

So who does vote? How to determine? Just staff decides? Who of staff decides that? May everyone here vote? Just the TOP 25 of each server ladder? Are they really competent enough? Is staff competent enough? (i mean pvp-experienced-wise, i love u guys, dont get me wrong haha :Heart: ) Who decides how the vote has to work? Well lets say everyone may vote for it, even with half-knowledge they could vote, u think thats a good idea?^^

 

And as i said this would be just the beginning. Ppl getting mad and i tell u it wont take less than a week and ppl getting threads ready, where they want to ban the stall-pokes or other pokes with some good arguments, im sure. So it might be a bit unfair to just suspect gothitelle and not others if it gets suggested with reliable arguments. And where do we stop in this still young, evolving PvP-Meta?

 

I think in the end we all want the same. Having a interesting, highly competitive (how competitive hax-game pokemon ever can be) PvP-Meta. Ok, as im thinking of it... thats not true....the same amount of players denying you coins by DC, trying to bot or trying to scam or trying to make the highest amount of profit possible in a legal way for them and their PvP-Team would probably just vote selfish. And not cause its the right decision. And i expect that being a lot.

 

Well we have to accept how staff decides it. Do they want players to vote for it or not. Do they even ever wanna do a vote or ever ban a pokemon cause of above mentioned reasons. PRO is still evolving, esp the PRO-PvP Meta, so they have to decide according to PROs philosophy and own good. I wont say banning specific pokes would always be a bad decision, in my opinion its just a bit early with so many stuff missing.

 

If they wanna suspect it and decide ist unhealty for the meta, go ahead and ban it. Its just not my opinion but i can live with it. ;)

[Carmillum]

253282

 

nb: I'd need to know what could 1hko a +6 Gothitelle. Everyone is running it Bold + max def and once it uses calm mind 6 times it got an insane amount of sdef. The difference is, once he is at +6, he will 1hko everything of your team for sure unless you got something it cannot hits. A pokemon that let you a chance "only if" isnt that good for the metagame.

 

Weavile.

You're welcome!

Or Tyranitar with Lum-Berry & Crunch if the Goti has Thunderwave & a PSY move (enables a DD that may help to sweep).

[Zinsmiter]

253597 Stop running [Censored] stall, thats your answer for gothitelle.

Gothitelle alrd in PRO for long long time ago but no one care to use it, you know why? because its not that good pokes to begin with in PRO.

Gothit start to shine when regenerator introduced which makes pokemon like slowbro overpowered and abused by many ladder climber, and Gothit can shut it down completely along with another STALL pokes. In result those stall players get salty, that this threat all about.

Check ladder some poeple even manage to get high win:lose ratio without using that overpowered gothit you mentioned, and if gothit that OP they will never get such win ratio right?

 

Seems like it is YOU who doesn't know why. Gothitelle wasn't used simply because Rest TM wasn't in the game.

 

Personally I think they should ban it as well. In other pokemon communities it's already banned and in PRO you don't even know the opponent's team, making it even more devastating than usual. Also there still aren't items like Life Orb or Choice Band to wall break along with things like Pursuit not working. Pursuit would kinda be the revenge trap. Having a check doesn't really work when you can't switch and don't know the opponent's team. Abolishing a whole playstyle such as stall based on this mechanic seems stupid. There are other ways to stall break, like taunt, setting up with lum berry, using pokemon types to ignore moves like toxic, t-wave, W-o-W, entry hazards etc.

[Einheria]

253676 So here u would start smth completly new. Banning a Pokemon forever (or until a new vote). And all what i want is being careful with that topic.

Banning a pokemon out of PRO (yeah sure PvE is still there so u can give it a shot at bosses or unranked pvp, if u have friends or willing guild members) would destroy its value completly. PPl are investing time or money into that, so if they hear they can never us it again, they might get very mad. And u could still use your unbound hoopa in UBER?, not sure what tier it is. And u just clicking your IVs/EVs moves etc in SD. Not in PRO.

And did u ever tried to catch h.a. extremely rare pokemon? I might already have asked u that not sure. xd So even if they got a shadow tag it might not have the best nature/ivs. Ive met one, maybe 2 players using her this season in around 200 games. And im sure i met in at least 50% of the games a blissey, a bit boring but he

 

I guess that people who spent weeks or millions farming for a h.a Gothitelle (or Blaziken) won't enjoy them to be banned for obvious reasons. And to answer you, yes, i actually have a speed boost Blaziken but i promise that i won't get mad if it will be banned in the future (but that's just me ^^)

253676 So who does vote? How to determine? Just staff decides? Who of staff decides that? May everyone here vote? Just the TOP 25 of each server ladder? Are they really competent enough? Is staff competent enough? (i mean pvp-experienced-wise, i love u guys, dont get me wrong haha :Heart: ) Who decides how the vote has to work? Well lets say everyone may vote for it, even with half-knowledge they could vote, u think thats a good idea?^^

 

"Is staff competent enough"? You're really looking for trouble aren't you? xD Seriously, you do have a point, it's very hard to decide who is competent enough to vote. On smogon, only players who have achieved a certain rank on the ladder may vote but PRO is not smogon and should not become a smogon-like. I mean, if i want to play exactly with smogon terms, why am i still here? I should go back on showdown instead.

 

So yes, i'll be honest, just like you i don't really have an answer to your question and i don't think anyone has a proper one. You're right stating that

253676 the same amount of players denying you coins by DC, trying to bot or trying to scam or trying to make the highest amount of profit possible in a legal way for them and their PvP-Team would probably just vote selfish. And not cause its the right decision.

[Tymerod]

Its funny that almost everyone is quoting the smogon uber moveset of gothitelle, which is bs because almost all uber pokemons arent in PRO right now.

gothitelle in PRO is used best with taunt if u wanna counter a stall team, because u outspeed slowbro, blissey, tangrowth, amoongus anyway but u deny them their status moves. without taunt u can even struggle against a bold+calm mind slowbro.

Sleep powder users like roserade/venusaur are countered by chesto berry, so u have a guaranteed taunt in the frist round, while sleep powder has only a 75% chance to hit. Btw Chesto berry is the best item in PRO because if u wanna set up on a special attacker u probably dont get to +2 before u need to rest the first time (u are too slow). But once u reached +3+ u dont care about the sleep turns anyway and u dont need a lum berry because rest cures scald burns, poison from toxic spikes or para.

Faster confuse ray+thunder wave users (starmie, lanturn) have only a 50% chance to deny taunt or the +1. If taunt is succesful gothitelle has a 50% to rest heal para and set up for 2 turns or if confused to set up for 3 turns. A lum berry has a little advantage over chesto in this scenario because u get a guaranteed taunt in the frist round followed by +2/+3 the next rounds. and at +3 starmie's hydro pump is only dealing max 25% (Psyshock will always deal 18% max against bold gothitelle). Even if u are confused+para u still have a 25% chance to use an attack, while starmie already needs 5 hits for a KO. Because starmie is stronger u already know whats happening if lanturn isnt running volt switch.

If u dont run taunt u want signal beam as coverage move against dark type switch ins and other psychic types. Most of them get 0HKO'ed at +6 by signal beam while most dont have a 0HKO with their dark type stabs with black glasses or even life orb. Additionally a used chesto berry helps against knock off.

 

And for all the players who think u cant use gothitelle without calm mind to take care of slowbro, blissey, tangrowth, amoongus. A bold gothitelle with chesto berry and taunt, psyshock, signal beam and rest beats them 1on1.

 

If u dont believe it feel free to recalc with a dmg calculator.

 

peace out

[Bigdanny]

if u guys really think gothe is too overpowered, the best way is that just finding yourself a gothe, use it in pvp and see what's gonna happen

 

maybe u can figure out how to deal with gothetella

 

as i said before, u trap me and i trap u, it's very fair :Smile:

 

banning any pokemon is just like denying the efforts of a player who paid to get that pokemon

 

and if u think efforts or money ppl paid to get gothe should not be considered , you are wrong

 

as one staff ever said, " [highlight=yellow]PRO is not a battle simulator[/highlight] where you can use your desired Pokes and Items anytime you want.

 

You gotta put some efforts to build a decent team that can overpower your opponents.

 

[highlight=yellow]One of the factors that makes PRO PvP competitive is the efforts you put to get Items, Pokemons, and Moves.[/highlight]"

 

if u want to play pvp fairly, u need to go to showdown instead of pro

 

and i am sure that gothe is not over-abused in pvp now, :Ambivalent:

 

i played like 30 pvp games and i only faced one guy who has gothe in his team

[Naye]

nah, remove tangrowth, sableye, slowbro, blissey and milotic first

[Futz]

253970 nah, remove tangrowth, sableye, slowbro, blissey and milotic first

wow such demand, no wonder you keep leave PVP match and denying people coin :Smile: