Grindfest Limits PRO's Potential

[Chameleon]

First of all, this is all my opinion. I don't aim anything at anyone and I am in no way disrespecting the staff or the players of this game. You may disagree with me, but please try to explain your point of view respectfully if that is the case.

 

tl;dr at the end.

Alright... PRO is a very good, and in my opinion the best MMO game based on Pokemon, I deeply appreciate the efforts of anyone who's involved in the making/running of the game. But I believe some things aren't handled correctly and these things limit the game's potential.

 

One of the first things suggested to new players is generally "do not evolve your Pokemon until 90+ level". This obviously sounds strange to anyone who isn't familiar with the game because it's a joy to train your Pokemon until it can level up and be able to evolve, helping you progress throughout the story. But unfortunately, this particular suggestion is very accurate because evolving your Pokemon before it's at a high level could cost you a very long time in the long run, because the required Exp to level up rises drastically on an evolved Pokemon. I believe Exp mechanics is this way so the story mode is a little bit challenging, but I think there are other ways to ensure this, such as placing stronger Pokemon at Gyms etc.

 

Now, the story part of the game is still pretty doable. The bigger problem, in my opinion, starts after that. EV training and levelling a single Pokemon takes A LOT of time. From my experience, EV training (depends on the EVs obviously, but in general) takes around 2hrs on average, and levelling a lvl 20 Pokemon to 100 takes about 4-6hrs or even more depending on the Pokemon (Snorlax vs Rattata, for example). Finding the right Pokemon is another story, especially if the said Pokemon is one of the rarer ones and/or if you need its hidden ability etc.

 

 

This is an okay amount of time for people who just want to play ranked-PvP and aim for top whatever in the ladder. But I believe PRO has a lot more to offer. There are all sorts of different players in the game, hunters, collectors, shiny hunters, PvPers, people who just want to have fun and a lot more I can't name... This also includes those who just want to PvP without thinking about their rating/place in the ladder, just for fun. I am one of those people. I do, eventually, battle for the top 5/10/25 in the ladder but my main aim in this game is to have fun battles more than anything. But guess what, the grindfest stops me from doing so; explained below.

 

I want to PvP for fun, try out stupid/funny/unconventional builds just for giggles. That's where the fun is at for me. I would love to KO a Goodra with a Physical Gengar using Ice Punch, bring a Golem down to its Sturdy with Blizzard on Raticate, use a sweeping Onix and hundreds of other things. But I cannot do that and normal PvP at the same time, because it's costly as hell. Either $$$ or time. Finding the right Gastly (a fairly common Poke) for a physical build, training it is taking a considerable amount of time, and multiplying that time with other "hundreds" of builds I spoke about results me in having white hair before I manage to do that.

 

I've already spoken a lot and I believe I have got my point across so I don't want to keep writing even more about the problem, I want to move onto the solution.

 

I believe in the handhelds, the experience formula is a lot more 'friendly' (correct me if I'm wrong, I haven't played them in a very long time). I'm not saying make an exact copy of that (though I would probably like it), but give us a more friendly experience formula. And also implement Power Items for EV training, Macho Brace doesn't cut it especially if you need several different EVs on a single Pokemon. Implement Exp. Share (this "may" not be that necessary, would like to read your thoughts on this). This will help with a lot of things, I and many others won't just be sad when they get a modest Mudkip, they'll say "I'll just use a special Swampert for giggles, lol" instead and have fun!

 

I will probably be getting "daycarers will lose" as a response. No they won't. Training a Pokemon will still take a considerable amount of time, especially if there are more than one. Rich/lazy ones will still use these services. Daycarers will need to drop prices, but instead of training 1 Pokemon in 10 hours, they'll train 2-3 (numbers may not represent realistic values). And there will be a lot more Pokemon for them to train, because people can actually find it reasonable to train their adamant Abras.

 

And please do not respond with "this is an MMO". I'm aware of it, but MMO doesn't necessarily mean "grind for days, make everyone get rekt and try to be number 1!!!". Pokemon has so much potential to be fun, PRO is currently limiting it with its mechanics, in my opinion.

 

Tl;dr - Bring more fun to the game by reducing the grind factor, let us find it reasonable/feasible to run stupid builds such as physical Alakazam, sweeping Skarmory, special Machamp etc. for fun and giggles.

[Namelesshero27]

The fact is that pokemon is already a grind game (you have to grind in the original game, right?), put it in a MMO and yes, obviously the answers you're going to get are "this is an MMO", because that's the answer.

I'm sorry, but this is an MMO.

[Chameleon]

279353 The fact is that pokemon is already a grind game (you have to grind in the original game, right?), put it in a MMO and yes, obviously the answers you're going to get are "this is an MMO", because that's the answer.

I'm sorry, but this is an MMO.

This response does not answer my concerns or disprove my thoughts on limiting the potential fun factor of the game. And I have not suggested that the grind part of the game should be removed. I suggested that it should help bring different aspects to the game.

[Thejollypear]

279357

279353 The fact is that pokemon is already a grind game (you have to grind in the original game, right?), put it in a MMO and yes, obviously the answers you're going to get are "this is an MMO", because that's the answer.

I'm sorry, but this is an MMO.

This response does not answer my concerns or disprove my thoughts on limiting the potential fun factor of the game. And I have not suggested that the grind part of the game should be removed. I suggested that it should help bring different aspects to the game.

 

 

Removing the grind is removing PRO lol

[Chameleon]

279376

279357

279353 The fact is that pokemon is already a grind game (you have to grind in the original game, right?), put it in a MMO and yes, obviously the answers you're going to get are "this is an MMO", because that's the answer.

I'm sorry, but this is an MMO.

This response does not answer my concerns or disprove my thoughts on limiting the potential fun factor of the game. And I have not suggested that the grind part of the game should be removed. I suggested that it should help bring different aspects to the game.

 

 

Removing the grind is removing PRO lol

And that is exactly the opposite of what I suggested.

[Badhaxery]

Uh, I think PRO's formula is a lot faster than the handhelds. Granted, this is only true if you don't evolve your Pokemon. In my most recent experience, it took less than 30 KOs for my Drilbur to get from level 97-98 in Cerulean Cave, and I didn't even have MS. Earlier levels take significantly less KOs. My Level 79 Paras leveled up every two or three KOs from level 60 at Mt. Silver. Leveling from 98-100 is a much different story, but you could use Rare Candies for that.

 

I do agree that postponing evolution takes out a lot of the fun in playing, but at least, in a sense, they give you an option which involves grinding substantially less.

[Badhaxery]

Oops double post. Sorry.

[Starlight]

Physical Alakazam flat out doesn't work, that's why nobody use it. It's a pointless build.

 

At lv100, Adamant Alakazam with 31 Atk IV and 1 SpAtk IV, along with 252 Atk EV and 0 SpAtk EV, will have 218 Attack and 248 SpAtk.

 

It's not worth it at all because after all that trouble of looking for an Adamant Abra with such IV, the final SpAtk number is still 30 points higher than its Atk.

It's Psyshock still deal much more damage than its Psycho Cut. What's the point in making it a physical build then?

 

.........Modest Machamp/sweeping Weak Armor Skarmory/Adamant Gengar/Modest Swampert/Mixed Raticate all can work, though.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Anyway, regarding Power Items, I agree, we need them.

 

Regarding Exp, I don't know if it was intended or not, but PRO uses "base exp yield" as part of the equation for exp required to level up. While in official games the two are completely separate things (base exp yield is the number that determine how much exp you get from defeating a Pokemon - it's exp received, not exp required).

 

I can't say anything else regarding exp, let's just see what staffs will say about making the exp required to level up more friendly.

[Chameleon]

279518 Uh, I think PRO's formula is a lot faster than the handhelds. Granted, this is only true if you don't evolve your Pokemon. In my most recent experience, it took less than 30 KOs for my Drilbur to get from level 97-98 in Cerulean Cave, and I didn't even have MS. Earlier levels take significantly less KOs. My Level 79 Paras leveled up every two or three KOs from level 60 at Mt. Silver. Leveling from 98-100 is a much different story, but you could use Rare Candies for that.

 

I do agree that postponing evolution takes out a lot of the fun in playing, but at least, in a sense, they give you an option which involves grinding substantially less.

I'm not sure about that, you may be right. Though the problem still exists with Pokemon who don't evolve/who did not evolve in a certain gen(those with high base exp, basically), such as Snorlax, Scyther and so on... Levelling them up takes considerable amount of time. Rare candies do obviously help, but you would need lots of them if you're levelling up a number of Pokemon.

 

My main point, as addressed in the title, is the time it takes to have a high number of max level Pokemon. It limits PvP to being competitive only.

 

279562 Physical Alakazam flat out doesn't work, that's why nobody use it. It's a pointless build.

 

At lv100, Adamant Alakazam with 31 Atk IV and 1 SpAtk IV, along with 252 Atk EV and 0 SpAtk EV, will have 218 Attack and 248 SpAtk.

 

It's not worth it at all because after all that trouble of looking for an Adamant Abra with such IV, the final SpAtk number is still 30 points higher than its Atk.

It's Psyshock still deal much more damage than its Psycho Cut. What's the point in making it a physical build then?

 

.........Modest Machamp/sweeping Weak Armor Skarmory/Adamant Gengar/Modest Swampert/Mixed Raticate all can work, though.

 

Anyway, regarding Power Items, I agree, we need them.

 

Regarding Exp, I don't know if it was intended or not, but PRO uses "base exp yield" as part of the equation for exp required to level up. While in official games the two are completely separate things (base exp yield is the number that determine how much exp you get from defeating a Pokemon - it's exp received, not exp required).

 

I can't say anything else regarding exp, let's just see what staffs will say about making the exp required to level up more friendly.

Physical Alakazam doesn't work in competitive PvP, I do not disagree with that or the other gimmicky builds I've spoken about earlier. But you're missing my point here, I'm saying PvP doesn't necessarily have to be competitive. Why don't we just have battles with stupid builds to add more fun to the game? See the "point" in making a physical Alakazam build with Psycho Cut instead of Psyshock?

 

About exp... Like I said in my response to the previous quote, the exp formula could well be beneficial on Pokemon who have pre-evolutions, levelling a Drillbur, Marill, Gastly, Abra etc. could be easy enough. But the formula really hurts Pokemon with no pre-evolutions/those with high base exp.

 

Anyway, my point still is the fact (at least from my pov) that PRO, especially its PvP aspect, is limited with its current mechanics. I would like to see improvements on that, and I would be more than happy to read other thoughts on this. Whether they agree or disagree with me. I would especially like to read the staff members' views on this.

[Thor]

I dont know about you, but I PvP to win, winning = fun, so therefore why would i then use a pokemon that isnt using its optimum movepools/stat distributions, im sorry if I sound harsh but that is stupid and you should feel bad.

 

People seem to forget that PRO is a work in progress. That means things will get done. it's just a matter of time.