Shadow Tag

[Flaflapt]

I searched in this section for shadow tag and gothitelle but nothing showed up. More than likely it has been mentioned by someone somewhere but I didn't found a topic about it.

 

I'm here to talk about the possibility of banning Shadow Tag, and I'm kinda surprised this isn't in the rules, since the rules are basicly Smogon clauses.

Well Smogon banned Shadow Tag a year ago, and it wasn't even close, it was banned with around 90% of the votes.

 

Despite not having choice scarf and trick, Goth can still set up pretty easily with calm mind and rest, with psychic and a coverage move. The set up by itself is "cancerous", it's time consuming, both players are literally just clicking buttons, there's no competitive aspect associated with it. Fun factor: 0/10.

 

After the set up, comes the 2nd issue: Goth obvious ko's the mon it trapped. Now how are you getting rid of it ? Weavile and Bisharp, which are arguably the best physical dark types in the game, can't ohko max def max hp Goth from full, since there's no life orb. Even if there was a life orb, jolly Weavile has 6,3% of ohko'ing and adamant bisharp 75%. I don't really see a reliable way of revenge killing it.

Whirlwind or Roar just delay the problem, and you take a +6 psychic in the face. Defensive Ttar can 2ohko with crunch, but you're still gonna 70 to 80% of damage. Sash physical mons will get ohko if there are rocks/spikes up. You might beat it 1v1 with a leech seed Ferro, but you won't also come out healthy (not even considering that would take an eternity).

 

3rd issue (kinda obvious): It can just switch out after it did its job, I mean, it got its free kill. It can brought back later for another free set up and free kill. Most of the time this doesn't happen, because Goth gets more than 1 ko, or it's worth trading the Goth for 80% hp of a threat on the other side.

 

 

Can we brainstorm a bit about this ? :Cool:

 

Oh btw, if you spent 2 weeks farming for that one bold shadow tag Goth, or spent millions on one, or you hunt Goths "for a living" because they sell great, try not to be biased, ty. :Crazy:

[Tr3y]

It's safe to say that I am not the only person who agrees with you. But the staff seems to not have any interest in making tiers for this game unfortunately. I wish it can be part of the game as well but unfortunately it is not. For now we'll just have to enjoy the new update that Shane has provided for us. :Cool:

[Flaflapt]

I'm not talking about tiering, that would be great but it's something that can come long term. I'm talking about on an additional clause, like the swagger, sleep, baton pass, etc. One that forbids the use of the ability shadow tag.

[Barney]

Sorry but Im not as firm with smogon as I want, but I heard it several times: Smogon banned Gothitelle.

 

Im a bit confused but all I found after a quick google search was that this only applies for the OU metagame and below.

 

I think we should not apply rules for a tier system like smogon did, cause PRO doesnt have such a tier system.

[Rekkuza]

Thing you need to consider when comparing to the meta of Smogon, is that Smogon takes into account all abilities, moves and items. PRO currently is missing a lot of pvp orientated items, along with some moves and abilities, so comparing the two meta's isnt really viable at this point, and is also a big reason why Shadow Tag Gothitelle is not banned in PRO.

[Slaaaark]

i think gothitele should be banned too. the fact that abilities/items miss make it even harder to counter. Or to be specific its not gothitele that should be banned its the combo of shadow tag and calm mind+rest. Gothitele could be played with shadow tag only or with calm mind + rest only. The combo of these too is just broken.

Before some time a gothitele switched into my 350 sp.attack goodra and set up on it, on a 350 sp.attack poke!! I dont make this to complain just to say my opinion on the matter. As it is now gothitele is broken with kinda 0 counterplay since team preview doesnt exist too ( and even though you can revenge kill it with dark physical attacker , losing a poke first to do so isnt healthy gameplay) .

 

Have fun :Angel:

[Tr3y]

330953 i think gothitele should be banned too. the fact that abilities/items miss make it even harder to counter. Or to be specific its not gothitele that should be banned its the combo of shadow tag and calm mind+rest. Gothitele could be played with shadow tag only or with calm mind + rest only. The combo of these too is just broken.

Before some time a gothitele switched into my 350 sp.attack goodra and set up on it, on a 350 sp.attack poke!! I dont make this to complain just to say my opinion on the matter. As it is now gothitele is broken with kinda 0 counterplay since team preview doesnt exist too ( and even though you can revenge kill it with dark physical attacker , losing a poke first to do so isnt healthy gameplay) .

 

Have fun :Angel:

Agreed. Xapoman is too smart.

[Flaflapt]

330944 Sorry but Im not as firm with smogon as I want, but I heard it several times: Smogon banned Gothitelle.

 

Im a bit confused but all I found after a quick google search was that this only applies for the OU metagame and below.

 

I think we should not apply rules for a tier system like smogon did, cause PRO doesnt have such a tier system.

 

Correction: Smogon banned Shadow Tag, not Gothitelle.

 

PRO has a tier system. It has the banned pokemons and the unbanned pokemons. You say we shouldn't apply the rules that smogon has, but the evasion clause, and most "recently" swagger and baton pass clauses was smogon that came up with them and the staff of PRO enjoyed them so much that they're currently apart of the rules. And that's why you don't get recked by Klefki's and Baton pass chains into a sweep on the ladder. The clauses were made for more enjoyable gameplay, and I believe that a shadow tag clause would bring a more enjoyable PRO meta.

 

330947 Thing you need to consider when comparing to the meta of Smogon, is that Smogon takes into account all abilities, moves and items. PRO currently is missing a lot of pvp orientated items, along with some moves and abilities, so comparing the two meta's isnt really viable at this point, and is also a big reason why Shadow Tag Gothitelle is not banned in PRO.

 

I'm sorry, but your argument just supports my cause. Due to the lack of offensive items (choice items, life orb, is there even shed shell in the game to avoid getting trapped?), defensive/stall/set up trapper mons are stronger than ever.

[Shewas18]

330957

330944 Sorry but Im not as firm with smogon as I want, but I heard it several times: Smogon banned Gothitelle.

 

Im a bit confused but all I found after a quick google search was that this only applies for the OU metagame and below.

 

I think we should not apply rules for a tier system like smogon did, cause PRO doesnt have such a tier system.

 

Correction: Smogon banned Shadow Tag, not Gothitelle.

 

PRO has a tier system. It has the banned pokemons and the unbanned pokemons. You say we shouldn't apply the rules that smogon has, but the evasion clause, and most "recently" swagger and baton pass clauses was smogon that came up with them and the staff of PRO enjoyed them so much that they're currently apart of the rules. And that's why you don't get recked by Klefki's and Baton pass chains into a sweep on the ladder. The clauses were made for more enjoyable gameplay, and I believe that a shadow tag clause would bring a more enjoyable PRO meta.

 

330947 Thing you need to consider when comparing to the meta of Smogon, is that Smogon takes into account all abilities, moves and items. PRO currently is missing a lot of pvp orientated items, along with some moves and abilities, so comparing the two meta's isnt really viable at this point, and is also a big reason why Shadow Tag Gothitelle is not banned in PRO.

 

I'm sorry, but your argument just supports my cause. Due to the lack of offensive items (choice items, life orb, is there even shed shell in the game to avoid getting trapped?), defensive/stall/set up trapper mons are stronger than ever.

Let's say goth is a one of the reasons why ppl are STILL buying/using ms . Yeah it's broken, yea it's ain't funny, yeah it's toxic and insanely hard to get, but yeah that make ppl use real money . You understand what i mean ?

[Mestrepokemon]

this problem ( and others) could be solved with pvp items (Or partially), but i'm tired to wait pvp items...unfortunately, i'm out.