Multiple acc on ladder. Playing fair.

[Jeremco]

I understand what you're saying, but I guess you're a bit to much naive crockstar.

I mean, from experiencewise on video-games, every games online I played always had some top ranked players with a very bad mentality, some will cheats, other will abuses, even tho they already have more than a respectable level.

Sadly, this cant change , and its being realistic, yes its sad I totally agree, I also hate everything related to abuses/cheats/lies , and I never could be fine in my shoes if I was to win a game this way.

Some people doesnt care about that, and their own opinions about themself , only thing that matters for them is the image they give to the others, and being called " pro " by the other people . The fact they know that they actually doesnt deserve this title isnt enough for them to change their behavior , all what matter is the image the others have from them , however if this image is erroned.

[Nasulelijah]

Well for being afraid of loosing 20 points by bieing the 1st in ladder against a player, that is a nice challenge and make you feel more motivated, no matter the rng system, because lets be fair, we all have rng against us at some point :). That is not an excuse for you to say that a system where another ladder non-ranked or you being scared of loosing your points because you can`t play on your alts anymore :). I am strongly against alts being playing in ranked competivitly. Also for Mr Gambilicious, don`t lie and say only blaze members is against this thing, cus that is not true, also don`t say we have multiple accounts on ladder when the only one that in my knowledge was even in ranked play was the one of ikouts, wich is not anymore in comparation with you other guilds :). Tl:Dr stop being un-cool and enjoy the fact that soon we will have this, as myself won`t be attracted in playing ranked that much untill something will be done about it. The first step in not allowing alts on ranked was a big one and will get us to the point where the ranked play will be competivitly fair and cool for all of us to play, not playing vs Gambilicious 1, Gambilicious 2 and so on, ( that as an exemple ) :P

[Crokstar]

[mention]JeReMCo[/mention]

 

I must agree that I am a bit into the ideology side which looks at first glance naive. I do know how it is in reality. But if a part of players would follow what is adviced it is still better then non. In this type of games the community is usually more "grown up" as it forces thinking which means you can talk together and get to some conclusions. That is why I would like to show the sportsmanlike side play. For clarity there are rules which could show exactly the way what is OK and what is not. As said if some of the players would change the way of thinking due to change of rules or by just reading stuff it would be great. Utopia does not exist but if players will start to pinpoint themselves that "you are doing wrong" then the progress of a better game environment will develop faster. But to do that there must be change of rules so that people exactly know what is expected at the final state.

 

EDIT: having a break someone can takeover the topic.

[Zinsmiter]

Banning alt accounts is a bad idea because it limits a player to only play his most succesful team/teams if he really wants to try-hard.

 

I used to only have 1 account which i used in PvP. I started to say "whatever" and just dump my rating playing some random stuff because i wanted to use some pokemon FOR FUN (yes that exists!) and not just to do cynical only "tests" (which, together with sniping, seems to be the only thing people use alternative accounts for according to this thread). Well that pretty much prevented me from competing as well as you can imagine but i didn't feel like progressing on a new account. In the end i got comments from people about why i stopped etc. etc. so after a long time i made another account and did the bothersome repeat progress. Now i could try-hard on my main account and play whatever i wanted to on the other account. You speak of alternative accounts like it's the worst idea possible and is only meant in a harmful way when in reality some people just like playing with some of their favorite pokemon or new teams while still wanting to compete.

 

Non-ranked queue won't be a good solution because you're not playing against the same competition. I don't play alternate teams just to click moves and have my opponent do nothing. I wanna see if some of these pokemon even have a chance in the real deal because that's also an aspect that makes it fun. If you can succeed playing with these other pokemon.

You're quite naive if you think you can create a parallel queue as if the same people played there.

 

Also, as i mentioned in the new official rules topic recently, the new top 25 alt rule is badly designed as well. They wanted to get rid of illegal boosting but now people are forced to reverse boost in order to not be on ladder with their other account if their other teams were also doing well (which they often might especially since teams aren't everything and you're the one playing them!) which leads to a worse player experience and will blur the quality of rating as a measure of a skill since there will now be games where people will just give up intentionally which ruins the system since whoever queues into you when you decide that you have to dump your rating, will just gain free points.

 

It can also lead to some awkward games where the guy who decided to dump his rating plays to the best of his ability and just before he knocks out the last pokemon he will have known that he won and just decided to disconnect to drop rating while also boosting the rating of the opponent who would have lost which is definitely not how it should be.

[Jeremco]

https://gyazo.com/d32e110de3d1a24112a4ccf75bafb1a6

 

100% approving on that statement.

 

Tho for the non competitive ladder you said it wasnt a good idea, [mention]Zinsmiter[/mention] they can still let a points system even tho there's no reward at the season end or PvP coins.

If add to that they change the system of this one ladder ( not the other one just this one ) for something where you will only meet people at the same range of points than you, following that logic the ones with 300 ranking ~ will most likely be the one with competitive team, so there u can do your test and see if your team is usefull against thoses players who, if they're at 300 rating , it means they play a minimum decently and competitivly if they reach such a minimum rating. This way in one ladder we could've both the " low ranked " players that play for the only purpose to do troll/fun strats , while the ones high ranked will most likely be the one with decent teams against the ones you can try your new competitive teams .

And in the otherside we still have the ladder we actually play on, working the exact same way as it's working now.

[Nasulelijah]

Ranked PVP is only for PvP only, for ratings, for challenge, you want use fun teams your call, but don`t disaprove this thing, cus you need to try hard only :P is a ranked ladder after all, should be challenging, so deal with it lol

[Zinsmiter]

Ranked PVP is only for PvP only, for ratings, for challenge, you want use fun teams your call, but don`t disaprove this thing, cus you need to try hard only :P is a ranked ladder after all, should be challenging, so deal with it lol

 

You don't make any sense. "Ranked pvp is only for pvp". Eh yes? "cus you need to try hard only :P". No, I just explained that i wanted to use other teams than my best which is not try-harding. Still i like to do my best with these other teams which is also challenging.

 

I wrote why i wanted to be able to play with a second account in ranked pvp. If you got such a problem with that why don't you take your own advice and go "deal with it" yourself as it is now? If it is so easy to tell others to "deal with it" it should be easy for you who can deal with everything :P

[Irafayel]

Banning alt accounts is a bad idea because it limits a player to only play his most succesful team/teams if he really wants to try-hard.

 

I used to only have 1 account which i used in PvP. I started to say "whatever" and just dump my rating playing some random stuff because i wanted to use some pokemon FOR FUN (yes that exists!) and not just to do cynical only "tests" (which, together with sniping, seems to be the only thing people use alternative accounts for according to this thread). Well that pretty much prevented me from competing as well as you can imagine but i didn't feel like progressing on a new account. In the end i got comments from people about why i stopped etc. etc. so after a long time i made another account and did the bothersome repeat progress. Now i could try-hard on my main account and play whatever i wanted to on the other account. You speak of alternative accounts like it's the worst idea possible and is only meant in a harmful way when in reality some people just like playing with some of their favorite pokemon or new teams while still wanting to compete.

 

Non-ranked queue won't be a good solution because you're not playing against the same competition. I don't play alternate teams just to click moves and have my opponent do nothing. I wanna see if some of these pokemon even have a chance in the real deal because that's also an aspect that makes it fun. If you can succeed playing with these other pokemon.

You're quite naive if you think you can create a parallel queue as if the same people played there.

 

Also, as i mentioned in the new official rules topic recently, the new top 25 alt rule is badly designed as well. They wanted to get rid of illegal boosting but now people are forced to reverse boost in order to not be on ladder with their other account if their other teams were also doing well (which they often might especially since teams aren't everything and you're the one playing them!) which leads to a worse player experience and will blur the quality of rating as a measure of a skill since there will now be games where people will just give up intentionally which ruins the system since whoever queues into you when you decide that you have to dump your rating, will just gain free points.

 

It can also lead to some awkward games where the guy who decided to dump his rating plays to the best of his ability and just before he knocks out the last pokemon he will have known that he won and just decided to disconnect to drop rating while also boosting the rating of the opponent who would have lost which is definitely not how it should be.

 

Want to try hard? use main account. Want to test/have fun? use main account! Why do you guys always want an easy way out? If you want to test stuff do so at the beginning of the season. Its a well known fact that the season lasts AT LEAST 1 month. That gives you plenty of time to experiment before actually aiming for a ladder spot. Want to preserve a good win/loss ratio (which, honestly, means nothing and is simply an ego/image thing)? Test teams with friends! I'm sure your guild must have competitive players who would pose a decent challenge compared to the random unranked opponent right? Besides, no one is saying "dont test or dont use the pokemon you like (who may not be the best fit for pvp)". Do so, but with one account.

 

As for the rule at the moment, I agree it isn't put in place in the best of ways. But then staff have acknowledged this and are working on a better way of enforcing it. Until then, we'll have to abide by the rules. Besides, if anyone does intentionally throw games like you said, and gets caught, they would have to face the consequences.

[Zinsmiter]

Banning alt accounts is a bad idea because it limits a player to only play his most succesful team/teams if he really wants to try-hard.

 

I used to only have 1 account which i used in PvP. I started to say "whatever" and just dump my rating playing some random stuff because i wanted to use some pokemon FOR FUN (yes that exists!) and not just to do cynical only "tests" (which, together with sniping, seems to be the only thing people use alternative accounts for according to this thread). Well that pretty much prevented me from competing as well as you can imagine but i didn't feel like progressing on a new account. In the end i got comments from people about why i stopped etc. etc. so after a long time i made another account and did the bothersome repeat progress. Now i could try-hard on my main account and play whatever i wanted to on the other account. You speak of alternative accounts like it's the worst idea possible and is only meant in a harmful way when in reality some people just like playing with some of their favorite pokemon or new teams while still wanting to compete.

 

Non-ranked queue won't be a good solution because you're not playing against the same competition. I don't play alternate teams just to click moves and have my opponent do nothing. I wanna see if some of these pokemon even have a chance in the real deal because that's also an aspect that makes it fun. If you can succeed playing with these other pokemon.

You're quite naive if you think you can create a parallel queue as if the same people played there.

 

Also, as i mentioned in the new official rules topic recently, the new top 25 alt rule is badly designed as well. They wanted to get rid of illegal boosting but now people are forced to reverse boost in order to not be on ladder with their other account if their other teams were also doing well (which they often might especially since teams aren't everything and you're the one playing them!) which leads to a worse player experience and will blur the quality of rating as a measure of a skill since there will now be games where people will just give up intentionally which ruins the system since whoever queues into you when you decide that you have to dump your rating, will just gain free points.

 

It can also lead to some awkward games where the guy who decided to dump his rating plays to the best of his ability and just before he knocks out the last pokemon he will have known that he won and just decided to disconnect to drop rating while also boosting the rating of the opponent who would have lost which is definitely not how it should be.

 

Want to try hard? use main account. Want to test/have fun? use main account! Why do you guys always want an easy way out? If you want to test stuff do so at the beginning of the season. Its a well known fact that the season lasts AT LEAST 1 month. That gives you plenty of time to experiment before actually aiming for a ladder spot. Want to preserve a good win/loss ratio (which, honestly, means nothing and is simply an ego/image thing)? Test teams with friends! I'm sure your guild must have competitive players who would pose a decent challenge compared to the random unranked opponent right? Besides, no one is saying "dont test or dont use the pokemon you like (who may not be the best fit for pvp)". Do so, but with one account.

 

As for the rule at the moment, I agree it isn't put in place in the best of ways. But then staff have acknowledged this and are working on a better way of enforcing it. Until then, we'll have to abide by the rules. Besides, if anyone does intentionally throw games like you said, and gets caught, they would have to face the consequences.

 

I don't know who "you guys" are. I represent only myself here. And i don't know what you think i'm trying to find an easy way out of. If anything, it's you who is trying to find an easy way in winning since you want to limit some players to one account.

 

Why should you tell me what to do? People can queue with different mentalities. Like many other games. On Pokemon Showdown it's common to make different accounts in order to play with different pokemon that are seen as less viable. I tried to say that i didn't only play different teams for doing cynical tests but it seems like no one got that point. Why should the time of the month decide when i should play what i want if i have time to play there? Why should i only be able to do what i want the first 3 weeks of the month or whatever if i wanna go for the ladder at the same time? And why should i have to contact other people personally and ask them to play with me? You don't know my relations with my guild or who i am or if i wanna use stuff and just queue in peace alone. You shouldn't decide any of this.

 

It's clear that we got entirely different opinions on this matter so let's just agree to disagree.

 

As for the rule, i'm just pointing out that there is a paradox where you get punished if you win and punished if you have to lose.

A staff member recently told another player that he had to drop his second account off the ladder right away, so he basically told him to lose intentionally (even though that staff member didn't read the rules properly since it states "at the end of the season" but w/e).

[Irafayel]

Banning alt accounts is a bad idea because it limits a player to only play his most succesful team/teams if he really wants to try-hard.

 

I used to only have 1 account which i used in PvP. I started to say "whatever" and just dump my rating playing some random stuff because i wanted to use some pokemon FOR FUN (yes that exists!) and not just to do cynical only "tests" (which, together with sniping, seems to be the only thing people use alternative accounts for according to this thread). Well that pretty much prevented me from competing as well as you can imagine but i didn't feel like progressing on a new account. In the end i got comments from people about why i stopped etc. etc. so after a long time i made another account and did the bothersome repeat progress. Now i could try-hard on my main account and play whatever i wanted to on the other account. You speak of alternative accounts like it's the worst idea possible and is only meant in a harmful way when in reality some people just like playing with some of their favorite pokemon or new teams while still wanting to compete.

 

Non-ranked queue won't be a good solution because you're not playing against the same competition. I don't play alternate teams just to click moves and have my opponent do nothing. I wanna see if some of these pokemon even have a chance in the real deal because that's also an aspect that makes it fun. If you can succeed playing with these other pokemon.

You're quite naive if you think you can create a parallel queue as if the same people played there.

 

Also, as i mentioned in the new official rules topic recently, the new top 25 alt rule is badly designed as well. They wanted to get rid of illegal boosting but now people are forced to reverse boost in order to not be on ladder with their other account if their other teams were also doing well (which they often might especially since teams aren't everything and you're the one playing them!) which leads to a worse player experience and will blur the quality of rating as a measure of a skill since there will now be games where people will just give up intentionally which ruins the system since whoever queues into you when you decide that you have to dump your rating, will just gain free points.

 

It can also lead to some awkward games where the guy who decided to dump his rating plays to the best of his ability and just before he knocks out the last pokemon he will have known that he won and just decided to disconnect to drop rating while also boosting the rating of the opponent who would have lost which is definitely not how it should be.

 

Want to try hard? use main account. Want to test/have fun? use main account! Why do you guys always want an easy way out? If you want to test stuff do so at the beginning of the season. Its a well known fact that the season lasts AT LEAST 1 month. That gives you plenty of time to experiment before actually aiming for a ladder spot. Want to preserve a good win/loss ratio (which, honestly, means nothing and is simply an ego/image thing)? Test teams with friends! I'm sure your guild must have competitive players who would pose a decent challenge compared to the random unranked opponent right? Besides, no one is saying "dont test or dont use the pokemon you like (who may not be the best fit for pvp)". Do so, but with one account.

 

As for the rule at the moment, I agree it isn't put in place in the best of ways. But then staff have acknowledged this and are working on a better way of enforcing it. Until then, we'll have to abide by the rules. Besides, if anyone does intentionally throw games like you said, and gets caught, they would have to face the consequences.

 

I don't know who "you guys" are. I represent only myself here. And i don't know what you think i'm trying to find an easy way out of. If anything, it's you who is trying to find an easy way in winning since you want to limit some players to one account.

 

Why should you tell me what to do? People can queue with different mentalities. Like many other games. On Pokemon Showdown it's common to make different accounts in order to play with different pokemon that are seen as less viable. I tried to say that i didn't only play different teams for doing cynical tests but it seems like no one got that point. Why should the time of the month decide when i should play what i want if i have time to play there? Why should i only be able to do what i want the first 3 weeks of the month or whatever if i wanna go for the ladder at the same time? And why should i have to contact other people personally and ask them to play with me? You don't know my relations with my guild or who i am or if i wanna use stuff and just queue in peace alone. You shouldn't decide any of this.

 

It's clear that we got entirely different opinions on this matter so let's just agree to disagree.

 

As for the rule, i'm just pointing out that there is a paradox where you get punished if you win and punished if you have to lose.

A staff member recently told another player that he had to drop his second account off the ladder right away, so he basically told him to lose intentionally (even though that staff member didn't read the rules properly since it states "at the end of the season" but w/e).

 

By "you guys" I am referring to everyone that wants this rule revoked. How on earth is making ladder more competitive by forcing people to use main teams making it easier for anyone to win? :|

 

No one is telling you not to queue. I was simply giving you work arounds to the rule, not telling you "what to do". Besides, this is a "Ranked" ladder. Ranked. It's supposed to be competitive. Not only does this rule enforce that it also brings some life to unranked. I'm not sure if you were around when we had only unranked battling (I think you were, you are an experienced player here anyway, no disrespect what so ever), it actually gave battle chat life and people communicated with each other more than for just trading.

 

I agree with the paradox and did hear of the incident... I do concede, it completely throws off any reason to have this rule. Surely you can't ask someone to lose on purpose... either enforce the rule to the point of "you were caught using two accounts on ladder, here's a temp ban" or dont enforce it at all.