Ranked PvP Viability Rankings (Last updated 6-30-2020)

[Baganha]

Seismitoad UNR->C: how is the toad unranked? the greatest switch to rotom-wash that gets up rocks pretty much, which might not sound that big when ferro exists but the fact that rotom is as good as it is is the fact that it invites every threat with volt switch, seismitoad at worse at least forces a hard switch, good utility between knock, toxic and the potential burns and naturally great typing dealing with threats like heatran, zapdos, mag, slowbro, rotom-h, gengar (check), gren (no hp grass, check), rd manaphy. Spdef is the only set imo (sassy), cause mons like bish and drill, which seismitoad on paper should check it, seem to always manage to overwhelm it. Its definitely not an easy mon to fit in any team and fundamentals such as lack of reliable recovery (tho i think rest is a potential niche option) and pokemon like gastro, which cover most things seismitoad does, existing. Its honestly a great pick on presure stall teams that follow the typical suicune/zapdos/clef line since those tend to be a bit pressured by momentum from rotom into wallbreakers.

 

Might post more if i fell like it, we'll see

[Idkup]

Seismitoad UNR->C: how is the toad unranked? the greatest switch to rotom-wash that gets up rocks pretty much, which might not sound that big when ferro exists but the fact that rotom is as good as it is is the fact that it invites every threat with volt switch, seismitoad at worse at least forces a hard switch, good utility between knock, toxic and the potential burns and naturally great typing dealing with threats like heatran, zapdos, mag, slowbro, rotom-h, gengar (check), gren (no hp grass, check), rd manaphy. Spdef is the only set imo (sassy), cause mons like bish and drill, which seismitoad on paper should check it, seem to always manage to overwhelm it. Its definitely not an easy mon to fit in any team and fundamentals such as lack of reliable recovery (tho i think rest is a potential niche option) and pokemon like gastro, which cover most things seismitoad does, existing. Its honestly a great pick on presure stall teams that follow the typical suicune/zapdos/clef line since those tend to be a bit pressured by momentum from rotom into wallbreakers.

 

Might post more if i fell like it, we'll see

Agree in principle, disagree that Sassy is the only set - the suggested natures reflect this. Seismitoad has been moved to C.

 

Swampert has been moved from C- to UNR because there are better options... like Seismitoad.

[Karyyy]

hmm, idk but i feel absol can be on the list, I use it in pvp and I feel like it being underrated

[Greatlucky]

Hey, i was wondering if something like smogon exist but just for pro because smogon is not 100% reliable in this game.

 

If you know something plz help me :)

[Idkup]

Changelog 5/22/2020:

 

Kamis - Tentative

==

Tornadus-Therian -> S

It fits on everything. The only reliable defensive answer is Zapdos... and praying Hurricane misses. Good luck.

 

Landorus -> A+

While arguably broken, it has yet to warp the metagame around it, and its flexibility is unexplored. However, it is already evident that it is incredibly strong. Tornadus-Therian is answered by Zapdos, a solid Pokemon most teams do not mind running, while the only Pokemon that reliably beats all Landorus sets is... Cresselia.

 

Landorus-Therian -> A+

Landorus-Therian is excellent glue for any team. It has many viable sets: Scarf, one of the best revenge-killers in the game; Swords Dance, one of the few setup-sweepers capable of breaking through Unaware Clefable, and it is one of the best Stealth Rock setters in the game. However, it is held in check by some of the best Pokemon in the metagame, such as Tornadus-Therian and Rotom-Wash.

 

Thundurus / Thundurus-Therian -> A-

The potential for these Electric-types is there, but few have experimented with either due to the difficulty of obtaining Hidden Power Ice or Flying in this game. This is the most tentative rating in this update, and is easily subject to change.

 

Tornadus -> C

Unless you desperately need Prankster Defog, use Tornadus-Therian.

 

Updates

==

Togekiss A+ -> A

Baton Pass was one of the strongest contexts for Nasty Plot Togekiss. It no longer exists.

 

Volcarona A+ -> A

Meta trends have not been kind to Volcarona. While poor utilization is partially to blame for its bad performance, the heavy prevalence of priority is difficult for this moth to handle.

 

Tentacruel A- -> B+

Hazard control is more accessible than ever with the addition of both Landorus-Therian and Tornadus-Therian. Thus, Tentacruel's niche shrinks.

Edited May 22, 2020 by idkup

[Acidac]

Kinda feel like Conkeldurr could be moved up a notch since it has lots of coverage moves, great wallbreaker, work with lots of different kinds of teams and is one out of the most used offensive mons tied with Azumarill and Dragonite.

 

Only major weakness it has is fairy type, this due to the fact that it's fairly rare to see psychic mons in ranked pvp on PRO aren't that common, those are moslty legendaries that you should have counters to. Most flying types doesn't even use flying type moves, exception being the newly added Tornadus. Like I mentioned is fairy the major threat due to it's typing counters dragon and dark mons and is in general a type with few weaknesses and

 

 

I'd say it deserves a move to A or possibly A+ tier.

Edited June 3, 2020 by Acidac

[C0mp]

I have no idea why Weavile isn't in S Tier, if not being discussed for a ban already, whereas a Pokemon like Tornadus-Therian suddenly is. Weavile is easily the best revenge-killer in the game. It has 125 base speed meaning it outspeeds the vast majority of the metagame. Whenever you're down a Poke you can easily go to a Choice-Banded Weavile without issue and fire off something your opponent has trouble dealing with. It fits on every team archetype and literally every single one of its moves has insane viability. It has priority Ice Shard and two high-powered stab moves (Knock Off and Icicle Crash), which can easily 2hko the majority of the metagame. Oh, and it gets Pursuit too, which means you're rolling the dice whenever Weavile switches in on something slower and frailer than it. I wouldn't say this is the most troubling aspect of Weavile, however, it does cause 50/50 scenarios. Icicle Crash has a 30% flinch chance that can easily be the deciding factor whether you win or lose a game. It creates 30/70 scenarios far too often and forces you to play more defensively against it. There are certainly priority users that can revenge-kill Weavile like Aqua Jet Azumarill, Bullet Punch Scizor, Mach Punch Conkeldurr etc, but if you just spam the priority move, that can put you into a pretty crappy situation especially if they have something to absorb the hits like a Rocky Helmet Garchomp. If your plan is to counter Weavile defensively, then those defensive Pokemon can also easily succumb to a flinch chance, especially after knocking off Leftovers i.e Skarmory, Clefable, Quagsire, Ferrothorn, Chansey.

 

I mean, just look at these calcs for reference:

252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 172-204 (43.6 - 51.7%) -- 10.5% chance to 2HKO

252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 112-133 (33.5 - 39.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 157-186 (39.8 - 47.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 118-139 (33.5 - 39.4%) -- 81.3% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 135-159 (38.3 - 45.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 297-351 (42.2 - 49.9%) -- 90.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Icicle Crash vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 261-307 (37.1 - 43.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 242-288 (59.9 - 71.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

 

Now, let's see how much damage Weavile deals out to more offensive Pokemon:

252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Volcarona: 319-376 (102.5 - 120.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Knock Off vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 90-107 (26.3 - 31.2%) -- 32.5% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Icicle Crash vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 118-140 (34.5 - 40.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragonite: 235-277 (72.7 - 85.7%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Greninja: 155-183 (54.3 - 64.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 213-252 (55.1 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 213-252 (65.9 - 78%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 225-265 (65.9 - 77.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Bisharp: 111-132 (40.9 - 48.7%) -- 10.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Icicle Crash vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Bisharp: 98-116 (36.1 - 42.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Excadrill: 337-397 (93.3 - 109.9%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Icicle Crash vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Excadrill: 297-349 (82.2 - 96.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 181-214 (44.8 - 52.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Icicle Crash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lucario: 132-156 (46.9 - 55.5%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lucario: 150-177 (53.3 - 62.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Scizor: 225-265 (65.5 - 77.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Scizor: 225-265 (80 - 94.3%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Icicle Crash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Conkeldurr: 205-243 (58.4 - 69.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and burn damage

252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Conkeldurr: 205-243 (49.5 - 58.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and burn damage

252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Serperior: 194-230 (66.6 - 79%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latios: 224-266 (74.4 - 88.3%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Togekiss: 194-230 (62.3 - 73.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Magnezone: 199-235 (70.5 - 83.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

 

I could go on and on about the brute power of Weavile, but I dont want to flood this thread with calcs. In the many games I've played over the past few months I've considered it stressful and aggravating to play against. As I see it now, Weavile is just too much of an omnipotent force in the metagame to not be considered for a ban let alone S rank.

[Rawrelit]

Weavile is making the meta extremely stale.

 

 

i 100% agree with what c0mp is saying. Because some of the best counters are not even in the game. Such as Keldeo, Incineroar and Toxapex.

Edited June 3, 2020 by rawrelit

[Frostyjoereborn]

+1

[Stavd]

weavile is a mach/ bullet punch story...in a meta dominated by conk, scizor and clefable (bold in most cases), weavile cannot be in s rank...it is useful, but there are many restrictions in its use...even in moveset...