Jorogumo

10 CCs.

The banner on the initial post has been updated. It now includes different Pokémon and, most notably, 3 Mega Evolutions: Mega Alakazam, Mega Metagross, and Mega Scizor.

Suggestions and requests regarding current PvP bans Hello, everyone! The purpose of this thread is to allow players to formulate requests, proposals, and suggestions for potential change or improvement regarding current PvP bans in a manner that would indicate an alternative course of action. For example, if you disagree with a specific ban, please feel free to argue against it. I hope that this thread can serve as a way to better communication between the PvP Council and the rest of the players, especially those who may not frequently check Council-related PRO Discord channels. Moreover, this post should provide the playerbase with an exhaustive list of everything that is currently banned from Normal Ranked PvP, as well as the (brief) reasoning behind each individual ban. As there are several bans, there are multiple items to discuss one by one. I also plan to use the forums to publish future PRO PvP surveys and survey results in an effort to reach a larger number of players and organize all survey-related information in a single thread for more clarity and accessibility in the future. A third thread where players would be able to forward any suggestions or recommendations for PvP Council discussion or metagame improvement is potentially in the works, since this one is exclusively limited to current PvP bans. All of the following items are banned from the queue known as Normal Ranked PvP. Here they are in alphabetical order: Aegislash. At first, Aegislash was allowed with King’s Shield and quickly made a name for itself as the most centralizing Pokémon in the metagame. King’s Shield was then banned, in August 2020, in an attempt to keep it unbanned and in check by limiting its effectiveness. However, as it turned out, Aegislash was still a menace to most playstyles. Its versatility and unpredictability, combined with its unmatched offensive and defensive capabilities, ultimately pushed it over the top and made it an overcentralizing presence in the metagame, even without access to King’s Shield. It was banned in April 2021. Arena Trap. Arena Trap removed one of the main features of competitive Pokémon: the ability to switch. Unlike Magnet Pull, its targets were far greater in number (i.e., all grounded Pokémon that are not Ghost types). The main culprit, Dugtrio, enabled several offensive threats by removing their checks and counters from the game. Moreover, despite being an offensively oriented Pokémon, Dugtrio was able to fit on stall teams by eliminating some of the strongest stallbreakers and wallbreakers in the metagame, like Heatran and Choice Band Tyranitar. Other Arena Trap users were never seriously considered in PRO. When the mechanics of the game transitioned from being Gen 6-based to being Gen-7 based, Dugtrio’s Base ATK went from 80 to 100. This prompted many players to request its ban. Arena Trap was deemed uncompetitive and was consequently banned in April 2018. Baby XD001. Baby XD001 was the first unofficial Pokémon added to PRO. Inspired by Shadow Lugia, codenamed XD001, it had an unusual dual typing: Shadow / Flying. The Shadow type offensively allowed it to inflict STAB-less super effective damage to every other type except itself. Furthermore, all moves besides Shadow-type ones dealt neutral damage to it, thus virtually rendering it a pure Flying type from a strictly defensive perspective. Baby XD001’s base stats were as follows: 20 ATK, 105 DEF, 100 SPD, 55 SPATK, 110 SPDEF, and 70 HP. As far as the prospect of an unofficial Pokémon with a new, unfamiliar typing goes, the PvP Council and the polled community were both split. Therefore, Baby XD001 remained banned. This happened in October 2021. Baton Pass. Baton Pass referred to more than just a move; it represented a playstyle centered on passing accumulated boosts to Pokémon capable of taking advantage of them to sweep the opposition. This behavior was limited by the Baton Pass clause, which stated that teams could only carry a single Baton Pass user and that said user could not simultaneously boost its Speed and other stats. This effectively resulted in Speed Boost Scolipede becoming the main Baton Passer on Baton Pass teams. Speed abusers included Pokémon such as Manaphy and Togekiss. While Substitute was not yet coded at the time, Scolipede adapted and still managed to excel as a Baton Passer. Due to the uncompetitive, matchup-reliant, and luck-based nature of Baton Pass teams, the Staff team then decided, in April 2020, to revoke the Baton Pass clause and ban the move as a whole instead. This was initially announced as a test period, but the change, most likely deemed positive, remained in effect. Battle Bond Greninja. Battle Bond Greninja was released during the 2020 Halloween event and was only allowed for the PvP season of October 2020. The fastest Megas were still unreleased and Ash-Greninja ended up outpacing the entire viable metagame. Offensive and defensive countermeasures were insufficient, with some players resorting to gimmicky checks, like Poliwrath, or exploitable ones, like Chansey, even on offense. After activating Battle Bond, it even had access to one of the most powerful priority moves in the game in Water Shuriken. Overall, Ash-Greninja made steady progress throughout every match and promoted passive (counter)play, which facilitated laying down Spikes on telegraphed switches. It quickly became centralizing to an unhealthy extent and, before its presence could begin to hurt the viability of multiple playstyles, Battle Bond Greninja was banned in November 2020. Blazikenite. Unsurprisingly, Mega Blaziken was never allowed in Ranked PvP. Its Fire / Fighting coverage was bolstered by two powerful STAB moves in Flare Blitz and High Jump Kick. Its Ability, Speed Boost, perfectly complemented its offensive stats, allowing it to fulfill the dual role of a wallbreaker and a sweeper. Mega Blaziken had a good match-up against offensive and defensive teams, while totally dismantling balanced builds in the process. The list of Pokémon able to check it reliably was also too limited. The PvP Council almost unanimously agreed that it would put an unbearable strain on the teambuilder, would require futile overpreparation, would generate an unhealthy amount of unstoppable sweeps, and would hurt the growth of several playstyles in an ever-evolving metagame that had just undergone massive changes, including the release of the second wave of Megas. Blazikenite was swiftly banned in November 2020. Darkrai. Darkrai was on a list of pre-banned Pokémon before its release. Dark Void’s accuracy used to be 80% before dropping to 50% in the transition of PRO from Gen 6 mechanics to Gen 7 ones, thus making the move a low-risk, high-reward prospect that would have complemented the Ability Bad Dreams perfectly. Darkrai also had access to Nasty Plot, a move that would have allowed it to muscle past special walls with ease. Boasting high power and one of the best Speed tiers in the metagame (at the time), Darkrai would have undoubtedly terrorized the PvP scene with just a couple of damaging moves. Genesect. In July 2017, the pre-banned Genesect made its PRO debut with an Ability that worked in reverse. Players who met certain requirements were then asked to vote on Genesect – alongside Gothitelle and Blaziken – to gauge whether there would be sufficient support to test it. Unfortunately, the majority opposed this testing phase and Genesect has remained banned ever since. Aside from its power and typing, it could generate momentum in an unprecedented manner and make progress no matter what. Its versatility and unpredictability were also deemed outstanding. Indeed, Genesect boasted a wide array of viable items, moves, and sets. As a result, it was known for having almost no safe switch-ins. Gengarite. Gengarite, released during the 2020 Halloween event, was instantly banned due to Mega Gengar possessing the already banned Ability Shadow Tag. Usually at its best against defensive and, to a lesser degree, balanced teams, Shadow Tag Mega Gengar would be able to target and remove specific threats with extreme ease, thus paving the way for an easy victory. Its stats, power, and utility would allow it to excel at performing multiple roles at once. Had Shadow Tag somehow not been banned, Mega Gengar would have still almost certainly been banned on the spot due to the low-risk, (almost) guaranteed-reward nature of its kit. Gengarite was banned in October 2020. OHKO moves. The one-hit KO clause, implemented in July 2016, effectively banned the moves Fissure, Guillotine, Horn Drill, and Sheer Cold from Ranked PvP. Despite their low accuracy, these moves could drastically change the course of a match by potentially devaluing the importance of skill and rewarding the luckiest player instead of the most skillful one. Therefore, these specific high-risk, high-reward gimmicks were quickly ejected from a then primitive PvP environment striving for fairness and competitiveness. Lucarionite. Lucarionite was unanimously banned by the PvP Council in January 2022 as soon as its release became public knowledge. Aside from being an offensive powerhouse with limited, situational checks and almost no guaranteed switch-ins, Mega Lucario is notable for its unpredictability and versatility, which allow it to run physically and specially offensive sets. Furthermore, its good Speed tier of 112 and its access to Adaptability, boosting moves in Swords Dance and Nasty Plot, as well as priority moves in Bullet Punch, Extreme Speed, and Vacuum Wave, make it incredibly difficult to stop or revenge kill. Mega Lucario also possesses a wide movepool. Thus, figuring out the (physical or special) nature of its set would not suffice as its movepool can still remain undiscovered due to the number of viable moves that it is susceptible of carrying. Because of all the aforementioned factors, Lucarionite was deemed ban-worthy. Lunala and Solgaleo. Released in February 2021, Lunala and Solgaleo boast an impressive BST of 680. Defensively speaking, Lunala’s typing might be considered underwhelming, but the Pokémon’s various assets outweigh its rare drawbacks. Its bulk is impressive, its Ability is outstanding, and its diverse movepool would allow it to fulfill too many roles far better than anything else would. As for Solgaleo, aside from a passable Ability, it benefits from a good typing, a varied movepool, great defenses, and limited but reliable recovery. Offensively, its coverage is further boosted by the usability of its mixed offensive stats. Overall, both Lunala and Solgaleo were unsurprisingly deemed too powerful for Ranked PvP. Mawilite. When Mega Mawile was released, many thought its low Speed would keep it in check. However, this offensive behemoth turned out to be incredibly difficult to prepare for in a sufficient manner. It only had a handful of checks and counters, some of which served little to no purpose outside of handling Mega Mawile and weakened the team’s overall match-up against other threats. Due to its toolkit, which includes an amazing Fairy / Steel typing, useful pre-Mega Evolution Abilities, and the move Sucker Punch, Mega Mawile was able to bypass its low Speed and perform well against all major playstyles. There was also a discrepancy between the low cost of running Mega Mawile and the ensuing high rewards. Mawilite was banned in April 2021. Moves with a chance to reduce accuracy or raise evasion. Moves that continually increase the user’s evasion, like Double Team and Minimize, are banned due to their inherently uncompetitive nature. Likewise, those that decrease the target’s accuracy, such as Flash and Kinesis, are banned. Moreover, Acupressure, which raises a random stat by two stages, can coincidentally increase evasion and is banned as well. Protean Greninja. Protean Greninja was allowed from 2018 to 2021. There was some opposition to its release, but it fizzled out once it was out. Players had an easier time than expected handling it in PvP. However, as time went on, many realized the full potential of Protean Greninja and, ultimately, its Spikes / Hydro Pump / Ice Beam / Hidden Power Grass set pushed it over the top. Protean Greninja was able to control the hazard game extremely well and had almost no guaranteed offensive or defensive switch-ins, thanks to its Ability and its vast movepool. Protean Greninja also hindered the development of certain playstyles and archetypes. It was banned in April 2021. Sablenite. Stall is not the most popular playstyle. It is then unsurprising that the addition of a new tool to stall teams was met with backlash. This new tool, Mega Sableye, was a godsend to those teams. It allowed them to seize control of the hazard game to an unprecedented degree that made facing them a daunting task. Thanks to Magic Bounce and its overall toolkit, Mega Sableye was able to remove several ways of crippling Stall and defensive teams in general. Some even argued that it promoted unhealthy match-up reliance and centralization in terms of teambuilding and metagame development. Many deemed that Mega Sableye, one of the best Pokémon used on Stall, and Mega Mawile, one of the best offensive countermeasures to Stall teams, should be packaged together. Sablenite was banned in April 2021. Salamencite. The Staff team instantly banned Salamencite. Mega Salamence boasts incredible stats, which include a remarkable combination of power and Speed, as well as an offensively oriented Ability in Aerilate. Only gimmicky or niche Pokémon, like Eviolite Porygon-2 and Cresselia, can safely switch into it, which highlights the unhealthy and centralizing effects of its presence on the teambuilder and the metagame. Mega Salamence also possesses impressive physical bulk, further complemented by the possibility of running Intimidate as the pre-Mega Ability. Its wide offensive movepool allows it to pick its own checks and it even has access to highly valuable utility moves like Roost and Substitute, which respectively give it more longevity and allow it to bypass status. Salamencite was predictably banned in February 2021, shortly following its release. Shadow Tag. In March 2017, the Staff team organized a 3-week voting period on Shadow Tag. Gothitelle was the main culprit, while other Shadow Tag users were potential casualties that most players did not mind back then. The anti-ban side primarily cited the prevalence of Dark types, Gothitelle’s poor match-up against offensive teams, its inability to set up against relevant Pokémon, its proneness to common stallbreakers like Togekiss, and its much-appreciated ability to keep Stall teams in check. The pro-ban side focused on the lack of team preview (at the time), the removal of the fundamental switch mechanic, the uncompetitive and low-risk, high-reward nature of Shadow Tag, the absence of Pursuit from the game, and Gothitelle’s ability to enable certain threats by removing their main checks. Shadow Tag was banned with a 65% supermajority in April 2017. Shaymin-Sky. While Shaymin was initially banned due to a bug that allowed it to obtain illegal moves like TMs Flamethrower and Ice Beam, it was later unbanned. Shaymin-Sky, on the other hand, has remained banned ever since its first and only ban. Shaymin-Sky boasts high Speed, good Special Attack, and respectable bulk. It also possesses the Ability Serene Grace, which works perfectly with Air Slash and Seed Flare, turning the latter into a 120-BP Grass-type move with an 80% chance to lower the target’s Special Defense by two stages. Shaymin-Sky can then proceed to dispose of the sturdiest special walls. Furthermore, this Pokémon has access to various utility moves, like Substitute, Leech Seed, and Healing Wish. Shaymin-Sky was banned in April 2019. Sheer Force Landorus-Incarnate. Sheer Force Landorus-Incarnate is famed for only having two counters: Cresselia and Mega Latias. The latter was not even released when Landorus-I was roaming free in Ranked PvP. Thanks to an amazing Ability in Sheer Force, which grants it a recoil-free Life Orb boost, as well as its varied movepool, Landorus-I had both versatility and unpredictability. It was even able to choose whether to better its match-up against defensive teams with Calm Mind or improve the one against offensive builds with Rock Polish. Moreover, because Sheer Force Landorus-I had low usage, players had to decide whether to account for it at the risk of not encountering any or forego preparing for it altogether at the risk of running into one and suffering certain defeat. Sheer Force Landorus-I was, at first, only banned from PRO Ladder Tours; however, it was also banned from Ranked PvP in August 2020. Some illegal combinations, like Psywave Natural Cure/Serene Grace Chansey/Blissey or Curse Technician/Swarm Scizor. While the latter was solely enforced by the Staff team in August 2020, the community still had a say in previous illegal combinations that were banned, including Soft-Boiled Unaware Clefable in September 2017. Speed Boost Blaziken. When PRO’s mechanics shifted from being Gen 6-based to being Gen 7-based, Talonflame’s Gale Wings was effectively nerfed. This once popular Pokémon was no longer highly viable and, as a result, players realized that they had just lost one of the very few tools to keep Speed Boost Blaziken in check. Shortly thereafter, Blaziken was banned in April 2018, as it had become exceedingly hard to revenge kill or prevent from sweeping due to the shakiness of answers like Slowbro and Azumarill. Blaze Blaziken was unbanned in August 2018 thanks to the addition of a clear Speed Boost message that allowed differentiating between Speed Boost Blaziken and Blaze Blaziken. Swagger. The Swagger Clause was added to Ranked PvP in November 2016. SwagPlay teams were extremely uncompetitive and consisted of running Prankster Pokémon able to utilize the move Swagger, typically in conjunction with Thunder Wave and Foul Play. While this strategy never became popular in PRO, due to how quickly the Swagger Clause was borrowed from Smogon, some players still tried to experiment with similar tactics, including Prankster Confuse Ray Sableye, which were far less successful, consistent, and uncompetitive than SwagPlay teams. Please avoid including the following Pokémon in your comments and suggestions: Falinks, Skwovet, and Wooloo. Zacian and Zamazenta. Balance matters aside, these no longer obtainable Gen 8 Pokémon were released in 2021 with the intent of keeping them banned from Ranked PvP for the foreseeable future. Therefore, discussing them now would be pointless. Please make sure to use the following template to discuss any of the aforementioned items. Template: Example of a good submission: Discussed item: Protean Greninja. Course of action: Retesting. Justification: Protean Greninja deserves another shot. Offensive teams can handle it relatively well thanks to priority users and steadily or increasingly common Pokemon like Mega Scizor, Mega Manectric, Mega Alakazam, and even Keldeo and Scarf Lando. Stall is able to deal with Protean Greninja better than most playstyles, even though Spikes can make things tricky. Finally, while balanced teams might still struggle a bit against Protean Greninja, Pokemon like Ferrothorn and Rotom-W are among the most common ones in the metagame. If some players can afford to run HP Grass to beat Defog Rotom-W, you can immediately expect Spikes and Ice Beam, which immediately makes Protean Greninja easier to check. Moreover, many Pokemon that Greninja beats hard, like Volca, Exca, and Gliscor, have been seeing less and less usage, thus rendering Protean Gren less efficient than it used to be. Weavile is still common and can Pursuit trap Greninja to remove it from the game. Overall, 2/3 major playstyles can deal with Protean Greninja decently well. This is why I believe it should at least be considered for a retest. Example of a bad submission: Please unban Gren. It’s frail and has a lot of counters in the metagame like Chansey and Ferrothorn on every team. It also dies easily to Mach Punch and Bullet Punch. Now we have Lopunny, Manectric and Alakazam to outspeed it too, so it shouldn’t be a problem. Main sources: [Un]Banning Dugtrio & Wobbuffet An unhealthy Battle Bond: The Ash-Greninja case Arena Trap. Yes or No. Ban Blaziken Explaining the recent bans of Greninja, Mawilite, and Sablenite and the unbanning of Mega Metagross Genesect, Gothitelle and Blaziken testing phase PvP Feedback – Baton Pass PvP Feedback – Landorus Ranked PvP Rules. Shadow Tag Voting Softboiled and Unaware ability combined – Allow or Ban from ranked PvP? Time to unban normal ability Blaze Blaziken [Edit: Blaze Blaziken is unbanned | H.A Blaziken stays banned]

I would be in favor of an UU queue replacing OU every 3 months. However, we must address and resolve several practical issues before we can effectively implement UU. Usage and preemptive action: We already know that we will prevent Pokémon with more than 4.52% usage from being allowed in UU. However, we now must decide the months to take into account. If the rotation occurs every 3 months, will we consider all three or will we instead only account for the last month? This is important because UU might begin as soon as OU ends, thus leaving the PvP Council with virtually no time to decide whether to quickban something or not. For example, if an otherwise overpowered Pokémon with over 4.52% usage previously is suddenly UU by usage, we should be able to ban it. Alternatively, the PvP Council can preemptively work on a list of Pokémon that deserve a quick ban regardless of their current usage. We should be able to revisit said list in the future if necessary, as the metagame will continue to evolve and some Pokémon may become more or less bearable with time. Borderline Pokémon: Aside from the problem of Pokémon worthy of a preemptive ban, there also is the issue of more borderline, more contentious Pokémon. Those would typically warrant additional time and testing before the PvP Council could effectively reach a decision. In this case, as we would only have a single month on our hands, we might have to act differently. Should we then quickban those Pokémon or run the risk of letting them roam free? I find this to be a dilemma because both options come with drawbacks. Major tier shifts and usage changes: Likewise, if some Pokémon end up rising from UU to OU, some UU Pokémon may end up becoming much harder to deal with, perhaps even to the point of warranting a ban. I realize that some players dislike defensive Pokémon, but each balanced and healthy metagame has its fair share of those. Without them, some offensive Pokémon will become too strong. The same applies for a metagame where defensive Pokémon are too potent. If all the aforementioned issues seem like a lot to handle, we can ultimately decide to let UU turn into a chaotic, disorganized tier. I would like to keep it competitive, if possible. There are probably going to be UU tours, like the PRO Ladder Tour, so we should be careful with the way that we manage this tier. Should we just work on a list of UU Pokémon to ensure that the metagame can be somewhat healthy before its release? In this case, we would have to drop the 4.52% usage requirement. I do not have any definitive solutions to these problems, but I feel like they deserve further attention and discussion. Balancing issues: If UU is only available once every 3 or 4 months, it becomes nearly impossible to balance out the tier consistently. At best, the PvP Council can vote to quickban obvious culprits, but contentious ones will divide players, as well as the Council itself. Future changes: Moreover, the UU metagame will undergo major shifts and changes in the future, specifically with the introduction of Z-Moves and, later, more Gen 7 Pokémon that happen to be viable in the tier. Pokémon with a Mega Evolution: We will most likely need to know the usage percentages of the regular versions of Pokémon that have a Mega Evolution. It is hard to tell whether a Pokémon like Scizor would be OU by usage on its own or not. If there is an accurate way to distinguish between the usage stats of the regular Pokémon and those of their Mega Evolutions, this should not be a problem. Otherwise, Pokémon like Charizard will be unusable in UU. This can also be one of PRO’s many specificities. We do not have to follow Smogon or any other platform. We can establish our own UU rules if needed, as long as the Developers agree with doing so, of course! Two servers, two metagames? Another thing worth mentioning is that we have two servers with slightly different OU metagames. This may seem minor at first, but it will matter when it comes to UU, as we will effectively end up with two different UU metagames, unless we choose to opt for unique cross-server usage, which would not be consistent with the way we have been handling OU so far. With two OU metagames evolving simultaneously yet individually, Pokémon usage will be different no matter what. Consequently, the list of Pokémon allowed in UU will differ from one server to the other. This also means that the bans will be distinct as well, unless we choose a homogeneous tiering approach that allows us to ban the same Pokémon on both servers. Unfortunately, since the metagames would technically be different, it would be possible for a Pokémon deemed ban-worthy on one server to be tolerable on the other due to the presence of additional countermeasures unavailable on the server where said Pokémon would be too strong (e.g., OU by usage). Therefore, should we combine the OU usage stats of both servers or not? If so, should we do this over 1, 2 or 3 months? As you can tell, we should take into account many factors and variables to ensure the successful implementation of UU. The myth of UU diversity: I would also like to emphasize that, while UU will bring some diversity (in comparison to OU), it will not be a metagame where every single Pokémon is viable. Yes, of course, players can use whatever they want and, while this is already the case in OU, it will likely be less punishing in UU in most cases. UU will have its own viability rankings – if not concretely posted on the forums, then at least virtually. Some Pokémon will be much stronger than the rest and will dominate the usage charts. I am only putting extra emphasis on this because I know that some users expect UU to be a place where all non-OU Pokémon can finally thrive. That will not be the case, even if the metagame is relatively unbalanced at first. Some picks will always be more viable than most. This does not mean that you cannot use your favorite Pokémon; it just means that you will eventually start running into the same Pokémon, perhaps even the same teams and strategies. You can promote diversity on your own by trying out different things if you wish. However, please do not expect UU to be a disorganized tier, unless we willingly choose to let it be one. Please feel free to reply to any part(s) of my post. I am interested in reading everyone’s thoughts and opinions. I am sure that we can come up with satisfactory solutions to the aforementioned issues, too.

6m+15 CCs.

I won't elaborate too much on this, but it is a balanced team that focuses on stacking hazards (thanks to Donphan having Rapid Spin), although it is extremely outdated and unviable. I might work on a guide that explains what the different playstyles are and how they're built and used, but I make no promises!

Assuming that, by matches and PvP Quests, we are only referring to Normal Ranked PvP, here are my suggestions for PvP Quests, which take into account the fact that players who do not complete them are only missing out on additional, totally optional rewards: 3 Daily PvP Quests: Play 5 matches. Ideally, even if the number ends up being lower, players should always be able to finish all daily PvP Quests if they complete this one. Instead of 5 matches, we can also have X matches, with X being a number between 3 and 5. Win 3 matches. Likewise, instead of 3 matches, we can have X matches, X being 2 or 3. The last daily PvP quest can rotate between 1 of these quests: Play a game with X in your team, X being a random Pokémon. Here are some potential issues that could arise: Players not having X; X being absolutely terrible and almost always constituting a burden; players being forced to borrow Pokémon in order to complete this quest from time to time, which could also increase the risk of potential scammers, given that the lending function currently doesn't work. Having said that, X can be randomly chosen from the player's PC based on level-100 Pokémon, but some of those will be story Pokémon and will be extremely mediocre, while other players can make sure to have PvP-ready lvl-100 Pokémon just for the sake of doing this quest, so I don't think choosing a Pokémon that the player already has can work. Another suggestion is to make sure that only fully evolved Pokémon can be mentioned. Moreover, if certain Pokémon, like Unown, can be blacklisted in advance for being too mediocre, I think it is also worth considering. Play a game without X in your team, X being either the Pokémon that the player used the most the previous day (if there is a way to keep track of this) or a random Pokémon from the Top 25 list. Play a game with a X-type Pokémon, X being a random type, or play a game without a X-type Pokémon, X being either the type that the player used the most the previous day (if there is a way to keep track of this) or a random type. If considered, I would like certain types, like the Steel type, to have a higher chance to be chosen. Some other silly but maybe fun ideas: The "Play 5 matches" and "Win 3 matches" quests could rarely change to "Play 5 matches without X in your team" or "Win 3 matches without using X-type Pokémon." For these particular quests, I do not think imposing a must-have condition (e.g., "Win 3 matches with Bibarel") would necessarily be popular. Play or win 1 match with a Pokémon starting with the letter X, X being a random letter (Yes, I know X is already a letter, but...). Play or win 1 match with X Y-type Pokémon, X being the number of Pokémon and Y being the type. X should maybe be capped at 3 or 4, while Y can be any type. Something worth noting is that some players might be tempted to forfeit immediately in order to complete some of these daily quests. Is it possible to have them complete the match? I understand that it could be a long and frustrating one, though (e.g., against Stall), which is why I am in favor of changing most of these quests from play to win instead. 3 Weekly PvP Quests (that can be completed alongside daily and seasonal PvP quests): Get a minimum of 100 rating or get a minimum of X rating, X ranging from 80 to 120. Win X matches with at least Y OT Pokémon in your team, X being a slightly higher number than for daily PvP quests and Y being capped at 3 or 4. Defeat a player with 100 more rating than you. Defeat a player from a rival Top 10 guild. Win X matches with Pokémon that have a total of 600 Y, X being a random number of wins within a certain range and Y being a random Base Stat (HP, Atk, Def, etc.). "600" is an indicative number, but the main issue is Speed, which prevents me from picking something higher (since 6 115-Base Speed Pokémon would not even reach 700 BST). Alternatively, this can be changed to: Win X matches with Pokémon that have a total of Y Z, X being a random number of wins within a certain range, Y being the BST, and Z being the stat in question. This way, numbers can be tailored according to each stat. Win X matches with a Pokémon with the ability Y, X being a random number of wins and Y being a weather-inducing ability. Win X matches in a row, X being at least 3. Win X matches without using more than Y Pokémon from last season's list of Top 25 (or Top 50) most used Pokémon, X being a random number of wins and Y ranging from 1 to 3. OHKO X Pokémon, X being a random number. Note: OHKO=One-hit knockout. This means that a Pokémon taking 99% damage (because of Focus Sash or something else) would not count, so be careful with entry hazards, too! We can also have a different version of this achievement: Have X Pokémon faint without you dealing any direct damage to them, X being a random number. Win X matches without using any legendary or mythical Pokémon, X being a random number. Win X matches without using the item Y, X being a random number and Y ideally being one of the player's most regularly used items (e.g., Leftovers, Focus Sash...). Win X matches without any of your Pokémon having more than Y Z, X being a random number, Y ranging from 60 to 80, and Z being the base stat. An example would be: Win 3 matches without any of your Pokémon having more than 75 Base Speed. 3 Seasonal PvP Quests (that can be completed alongside daily and weekly PvP quests): Finish the PvP season in the Top 25 Normal Ranked PvP ladder. Achieve X rating without using your 5 most used Pokémon from last season. Achieve X rating without using more than Y Pokémon from last season's list of Top 25 most used Pokémon, X being at least 200 and Y ranging from 1 to 3. Achieve X rating without using any legendary or mythical Pokémon, X being at least 250. Defeat X players from a rival Top 3 guild, X being a random number (but at least 3). Win X matches with Y dealing the final blow, X being a random number (but at least 3) and Y being a random Pokémon. This could be really frustrating if Y is a bad Pokémon, but it might encourage some creativity. Win X matches with none of your Pokémon having a BST higher than Y, X being a random number and Y being a relatively low number as far as BST is concerned. The first listed seasonal PvP quest should always be present, in my opinion. I am not sure how players would receive their seasonal PvP rewards, though. For example, if they do not interact with a certain NPC (because, let's say, they have to wait for the end of the season to be confirmed as Top 25 players), how will they receive them? Maybe at the start of the next season? Let's assume 30 days in a given season. This means a total of 90 daily, 12 weekly, and 3 seasonal PvP Quests. I think that PvP daily quests should not grant players additional rewards for completing all of them every day. If each one grants the player 1 PvP Token (or 1 PvP Coin, which might be more appealing as a way to balance this out, since there is a currency exchange cap), 90 PvP Tokens (or 90 PvP Coins) can be earned every season through daily PvP quests alone. I think this is fine. Weekly PvP quests should then grant players 3 PvP Tokens (or 3 PvP Coins) for a total of 36 possible PvP Tokens (or PvP Coins) every season. Finally, as seasonal PvP quests are noticeably more difficult, they should maybe grant players 5 or 10 PvP Tokens (or PvP Coins). I am not sure about the individual number, but players can then earn 15 or 30 PvP Tokens (or PvP Coins) for completing all seasonal quests. However, this is still a relatively low number because I do not know if players will also earn additional rewards for completing all weekly and seasonal PvP quests every time. Assuming no extra Tokens or Coins, the 3 seasonal PvP quests should grant a total of 30 PvP Tokens or (PvP Coins). As such, players can earn up to 156 PvP Tokens (or PvP Coins) for completing every single PvP quests. The numbers can be tweaked later.

Hello there! For the sake of this argumentation, I am going to focus on why I believe that Landorus-I should remain banned. This does not mean that there are no valid counterarguments; it just means that I am, for the most part, not going to bring those up. 101 Speed is, indeed, unimpressive in our metagame. However, while Landorus-I is slower than several Mega Evolutions, it also pairs up super well with many of them. In fact, because it is able to choose what to beat (i.e., Calm Mind helping against more defensive teams, Rock Polish assisting it against offensive ones, and a 4th coverage move being useful in general or specifically against balance), Landorus-I can be used alongside Megas that are good against different teams and playstyles, which widens the range of its potential teammates. Therefore, it is far from being weaker just because faster Megas now exist. If anything, it has even more teammates to choose from. Landorus-I is also not easy to KO or revenge kill reliably. Since switching into it is a daunting task, you will often be trying to revenge kill it after it has already KO'd something (and you may or may not succeed in doing so). Sheer Force means that it can use Life Orb to boost its strength further without taking recoil damage, which keeps it relatively healthy throughout the match. The sole entry hazard that affects it is Stealth Rock; it is immune to Spikes, Toxic Spikes, and Sticky Web. It has two useful immunities and a good typing for what it does. It does not need many resistances, since it should not be taking unnecessary hits, but it only has two weaknesses, which means that only a small portion of the metagame is effective at forcing it out. I mentioned both of these moves before, but they are relevant here as well: Calm Mind makes it a nightmare against defensive teams and Rock Polish pretty much forces offensive teams to revenge kill it with Ice Shard or throw a Pokémon that is able to survive one of its hits once (like Keldeo or Latios) at it. Landorus-I's frailty is also exaggerated. While it is true that it will rarely be at full health (as is the case with most offensive Pokémon throughout the course of a match), it is still able to survive some relatively strong and, sometimes, even super effective hits. Rotom-W's Hydro Pump only has a chance to KO it from full, for example. Soul Dew Latios is not guaranteed to KO it with Draco Meteor. Moreover, Landorus-I is sturdier on the physical side. I am not pretending that it is tanky, but it is bulkier than many offensively-oriented Pokémon. It always survives a +2 Sucker Punch from Bisharp without Life Orb or Black Glasses. Choice Band Aqua Jet from Azumarill never OHKOs it. Aside from being difficult to KO, it also hits really hard and can OHKO many slower offensive Pokémon that would otherwise KO it. Assuming no Rock Slide (which certainly is niche but viable), Landorus-I has very limited guaranteed switch-ins and many of those are not too viable (Cresselia, specially defensive Mandibuzz, specially defensive Moltres, specially defensive Blissey, specially defensive Mantine, specially defensive Slowking, regular Gyarados...) and/or are unable to check it after Stealth Rock (like specially defensive Zapdos). Others may seem like appealing options at first (like Assault Vest Tornadus-T, Chansey or Lati@s), but they are either heavily crippled by a certain move (Knock Off in the case of Eviolite Chansey and Assault Vest Tornadus-T), thus rendered useless against Landorus-I and its teammates henceforth, or they are not solid, long-term answers because they lack reliable recovery, cannot outheal the damage or can lose if/when Landorus-I clicks the right move once. Mega Latias is the only answer that is both solid and viable. If we take into account all of Landorus-I's viable moves, it only really has 2 counters (not checks): Cresselia and Mega Latias. They both have recovery, but the former is barely viable, especially when used outside of Trick Room, and the latter is a good Pokémon but takes up the Mega slot. Some Pokémon, such as Rotom-W, can switch into some of Landorus-I's moves, but those must be at high health the entire time to stay out of range of Landorus-I's other moves. You also should not always have to rely on prediction and outplay potential in order to defeat a Pokémon. Those criteria do matter in practice, but only having 2 infallible answers is still a concern. If you forego Cresselia and/or Mega Latias, you will then have to dedicate more than one slot to checking Landorus-I, since none of the other answers would suffice alone. Some common Pokémon, like Rotom-W, Gliscor, and even Tornadus-T, can function together to try to fend off most Landorus-I sets, but those still rely on the right prediction and the right Landorus-I set (since HP Ice sets with Focus Blast or Sludge Wave and Rock Slide or even Knock Off could, for example, beat all three of the aforementioned Pokémon). Latios and Latias are more uncommon, despite being quite viable, but they are also not the most reliable answers since they struggle against common Landorus-I cores. An example of this would be Pursuit support from Pokémon like Tyranitar or Weavile, both of which excel against many of the more reliable Landorus-I checks and are able to threaten to remove them permanently from the match or dent them enough to prevent them from performing their roles effectively. This, in itself, is quite centralizing since you not only have a hard time against Landorus-I in 1-on-1 scenarios, but you also cannot properly prepare for all the Landorus-I cores that would be common. So, while Landorus-I might struggle against viable cores consisting of the likes of Rotom-W, Gliscor, Assault Vest Tornadus-T, and Latios, it does not have to beat an entire team singlehandedly and often requires one or two offensive partners to take care of all its issues. I cannot emphasize the previous point enough: Landorus-I doesn't have to be able to beat down a whole team on its own in order to be broken. It can pave the way for another teammate (like one of the many Mega Evolutions that work well with it) by weakening the opposition. Also, since Landorus-I's set is highly customizable, only truly mandating Earth Power (Focus Blast being arguable), it can choose moves that benefit the overall team, that is, either ones that help against specific targets, which it can easily lure in then surprise with unexpected coverage, or others that are useful for its teammates, like Stealth Rock, Knock Off, U-turn, etc. We already have some match-up issues in our current metagame and I believe that Landorus-I would exacerbate them further. If you choose to prepare for it as well as you should, you will lessen your match-up against other, perhaps more common, teams. If you do not account for it at all, you are then gambling with matchups and hoping that you will not encounter one, which is not very healthy, either. In fact, low Landorus-I usage might be problematic, because that would mean that all the already viable offensive threats would still see similar usage to now while simply adding an extra threat to the metagame. I am going to use Aegislash as a counterexample, but I am not saying to unban it at all (actually, quite the contrary). Aegislash would probably see far more usage than something like Landorus-I. What this means in practice is that some of the current threats, like Mega Medicham or Mega Metagross, will have to adapt or, if unable to, decrease in viability. Landorus-I would be an additional threat to handle alongside almost all the others, even though a few wallbreakers, like Nidoking, would understandably decline in usage and viability due to its presence. In the current metagame, where match-up issues very much exist, I don't think that unbanning Landorus-I would be a smart move, as it would warp teambuilding around it and make those problems even worse.

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First, I would like to thank all 19 participants who took the time to fill out and submit the PRO Viability Rankings survey that was posted in the PvP Council channel on the PRO Discord. I read every single response with much interest. In most cases, I went with the choice of the majority that I also happened to agree with. There will be two sections this time: VR changes (with as many explanations as I was able to provide on my own) and new discussion points (mostly comprised of common suggestions that I either understood but did not fully agree with or would like to have further discussion about). As usual, feel free to comment below this post to talk about changes and/or points that interest you. I will read every message, even if I do not always have the time to respond. Overall, while this was not my intent at all, I noticed a general downward shift, resulting in many Pokémon (most of which are—perhaps not so coincidentally—Mega Evolutions) dropping in viability with only two rising. New VR changes: Rises: Landorus-T: A+ → S Many players who completed the survey suggested this change and, after giving it some thought and looking at this nomination from a different perspective than one solely based on all the available Landorus-T countermeasures, I must say that I agree with it. While Landorus-T might be easier to check than some of the current A+ threats, it offers more than enough utility to make up for that flaw. Landorus-T is the cornerstone of most offensive teams and many balanced builds. In fact, its splashability is often the result of a necessity for several builds. This is due to the extreme role compression that it offers. Landorus-T is able to blanket check most physical threats (emphasis on “check”). It is one of the most consistent Stealth Rock setters in the metagame. It achieves an unparalleled combination of offensive presence and defensive utility thanks to its ability, Intimidate, and its typing, which grants it useful immunities and resistances. Both of these traits offer Landorus-T more opportunities to switch into many Pokémon. Overall, Landorus-T compresses many roles into one Pokémon and does this better than anything else in A+. Picking Landorus-T automatically strengthens your team and improves its matchup against many threats, which is a vital trait in a metagame characterized by as many matchup issues as the one we are currently playing in (due to the presence of an exceedingly high number of threats that are hard to prepare for properly). While Landorus-T may not constitute a guaranteed switch-in to several physical threats, it can still (practically and situationally) switch into (and force out or revenge kill) many Pokémon that sometimes carry a move that either heavily damages it or outright KOs it. Here are some examples: Dragonite, Mega Scizor, Tyranitar, Garchomp, Excadrill, Conkeldurr, Diggersby, Mega Charizard X, Mega Lopunny, Mega Metagross, Mega Diancie, Mega Medicham, Mega Pinsir, Mega Heracross… It goes without saying that Landorus-T is an extremely versatile Pokémon. It excels at many roles (e.g., revenge killer, defensive Stealth Rock setter, offensive Stealth Rock setter, sweeper…) and, outside of Stall, naturally fits on most builds. Depending on the set, Landorus-T can pressure almost all playstyles. SD Earth Plate sets are a hassle for defensive and fat teams, while Rock Polish and Choice Scarf sets pressure many offensive builds into never giving Landorus-T a free turn. While Pokémon such as Mega Metagross and Tornadus-T might constitute a bigger teambuilding constraint, Landorus-T still influences the teambuilding process considerably because so many builds must (or at least should) run it. Overall, Landorus-T is unquestionably meta-defining and, perhaps controversially, worthy of a rise from A+ to S. Serperior: A- → A On paper, it looks like Serperior would struggle in a metagame where Tornadus-T, Heatran, Zapdos, Dragonite, etc. are common. However, Serperior is still able to put in a tremendous amount of work and make progress even against some of its best answers. Substitute Serperior continues to thrive, with Glare gaining some traction over HP Fire for its ability to neuter the likes of Tornadus-T and Heatran, thus providing Serperior’s teammates with more opportunities to take advantage of them. SubSeed is an excellent set that fares relatively well against many balanced and bulky offensive teams. Serperior has its fair share of checks and counters, but it can opt for moves that prevent it from being deadweight against some of them or that provide the overall team with additional utility. Inspired by recent ORAS OU trends, some PRO players have even begun using Dual Screen Serperior with Light Clay. It has seen more usage (and some relative success) in the last PRO Ladder Tour as well, despite PRO having substantially more (and better) Defog options than ORAS OU—although it must be said that Serperior can drop Glare for Taunt on sets that use Light Screen and Reflect. Overall, Serperior’s versatility and utility cannot be understated. Drops: Mega Charizard X: A → A- Mega Charizard X should not be underestimated. An underexplored menace able to rip through many unprepared teams, Mega Charizard X can efficiently take advantage of common Pokémon like Ferrothorn, Mega Scizor, and (to an extent) even Zapdos, while outspeeding and KOing Choice Scarf Landorus-T after 1 Dragon Dance, Intimidate, and Stealth Rock damage most of the time. Despite most Landorus-T sets being Choice Scarf sets, Mega Charizard X does not appreciate the rise of Rocky Helmet users, such as Landorus-T, Slowbro, Garchomp, Zapdos, etc. While hazards might seem easy to remove due to the prevalence of some good Defog users that pair well with Mega Charizard X, they are hard to keep off the field (without being taken advantage of or losing too much momentum) with sufficient offensive pressure. As such, Mega Charizard X cannot always use its typing to switch into some attacks if Stealth Rock is up. Moreover, +1 Mega Charizard X struggles to sweep the increasingly common balanced and bulky offensive teams before succumbing to Rocky Helmet chip and/or Flare Blitz recoil. Roost can increase its longevity, but losing coverage leaves it walled by even more Pokémon. Screens and Healing Wish are also two nice options that can be run alongside Mega Charizard X, although Mega Charizard X struggles to fit on as many teams as the Megas ranked in A. Because Mega Charizard X struggles more in the current metagame than it did in previous ones and because its checks are becoming more and more common, thus hindering its sweeping capabilities, it requires more support than the Megas in A and fits better with the other Megas in A-. Mega Venusaur: A- → B+ Many of the Pokémon that Mega Venusaur excels against are less viable and less common than they used to be (e.g., Mega Gyarados, Azumarill, Mega Diancie…). Mega Venusaur struggles in a metagame where Heatran and Tornadus-T are still common, while also being unable to afford luxury options like Earthquake. Moreover, it has to worry about Latios, Mega Medicham, Mega Metagross, and some other threats that are starting to shape the metagame. On paper, Mega Venusaur is a solid Keldeo answer that is not Pursuit-weak. Having said that, one of Keldeo’s best partners, Tyranitar, hinders Mega Venusaur’s overall efficiency by setting up Sand. Mega Venusaur does not appreciate a weakened Synthesis, a Scald burn from Keldeo, Sand chip, and hazards in general. In practice, Mega Venusaur alone does not suffice to answer Keldeo throughout the course of a match and, due to its limited longevity for the aforementioned reasons, often requires a secondary Keldeo check on the team. Mega Venusaur has always faced competition from Amoonguss, which has access to the coveted Spore, does not take up the Mega slot, and offers a Keldeo answer that can comfortably pivot in and out thanks to Regenerator. Furthermore, Mega Venusaur also has to compete with Tangrowth on the physical side, as the latter has Regenerator, checks some dangerous physical threats that Mega Venusaur cannot take on, such as Mega Metagross, and handles offensive Ground types, like Landorus-T and Garchomp, better. In truth, this drop could have happened before but is nigh mandatory now. Mega Venusaur is no longer one of the most consistent performers on balanced builds and only fits on more defensive and Stall-oriented teams, where it faces competition from other Megas, such as Mega Slowbro and Mega Altaria. Many Pokémon in the A ranks have proven to be able to adapt back to the trends of our ever-evolving metagame whenever it has adapted to them; Mega Venusaur has not done that yet. Mega Gardevoir: B+ → B Current meta trends are unfavorable to Mega Gardevoir, despite it never truly gaining any traction. Mega Scizor was the most used Mega across both servers for the PvP season of June 2021. Mega Metagross is also increasingly common and, while Mega Gardevoir can burn or beat some of its checks, it still has to hit Focus Blast against the likes of Ferrothorn and Heatran while often not KOing them from full and possibly fainting in the process. Moreover, Mega Gardevoir struggles in a metagame where its Speed tier puts it below many potent threats, such as Garchomp, Keldeo, Mega Diancie, Tornadus-T, and Weavile. Mega Gardevoir has a hard time against offensive builds in general and faces tough competition from other wallbreakers, like Mega Diancie on the special and Fairy sides and Mega Medicham (or even Mega Heracross, a Mega currently ranked in B+) on the Fighting side. Mega Gardevoir also has to compete for a Mega slot with Mega Alakazam, a much faster Mega with a better match-up against certain offensive builds. Overall, Mega Gardevoir is quite the situational pick and, while it can perform well against certain teams, it tends to perform poorly against many builds, including common ones or those with progressively more common Pokémon. As a result, Mega Gardevoir’s increasing inconsistency is now reflected in the Viability Rankings with a drop from B+ to B. Other drops that I currently do not have the time to comment on, but that I ended up agreeing with: Mega Alakazam: A+ → A Mega Medicham: A+ → A Latias: A → A- Tangrowth: A → A- Thundurus: A → A- Jirachi: A- → B+ Mega Pinsir: A- → B+ Gengar: B+ → B Conkeldurr: B → B- Mega Garchomp: B → B- Starmie: B → B- If anyone wants to explain (or argue against) any of them, please be my guest! New discussion points: Azumarill: A- → B+? It feels like Azumarill keeps struggling in the current metagame. Rotom-W was the most common Pokémon for the PvP season of June 2021 and Pokémon like Ferrothorn, Zapdos, and Mega Scizor give Azumarill a lot of trouble. On paper, Choice Band sets can heavily dent these Pokémon, but an Azumarill locked into the wrong move invites in many dangerous threats that can take advantage of it or set up on it. Belly Drum sets still have sweeping potential, although they have a harder time in this metagame because of how slow Azumarill is. There are common Pokémon that can live a +6 Aqua Jet and Jolly Azumarill sometimes fails to outspeed Rotom-W sets that specifically invest into Speed to outspeed it. As such, Azumarill’s overall efficiency has decreased and it is less consistent than it used to be. Its typing is still a great asset and Perish-trapping sets are worthy of a mention for their ability to eliminate some of Azumarill’s common checks to open up a door for one of its teammates. However, Azumarill now requires more support than before. Therefore, discussing whether it should consequently drop from A- to B+ is relevant. Mega Gyarados: A- → B+? While Mega Gyarados can be a fearsome sweeper, the current metagame is not very friendly towards it. Despite its bulk, Pokémon like Keldeo and Rotom-W force it to run Earthquake. With the metagame shifting towards more balanced and bulky offensive builds, Mega Gyarados struggles to sweep and often requires multiple boosts to get past common checks like Ferrothorn. Mega Gyarados cannot really afford to run Substitute to avoid Status or Leech Seed as freely as some claim, because it needs all the coverage moves that it can have in the current metagame. With Mega Charizard X dropping from A to A- and being ranked alongside Mega Gyarados, now is a good time to discuss whether Mega Gyarados should drop to B+ or remain in the same tier as Mega Charizard X. Volcarona: A- → A? This was one of the most nominated Pokémon for a rise, but I would like to give this nomination more time first. Volcarona can sweep several unprepared teams, sometimes only needing a single setup opportunity in order to do so. Some of its most common answers can lose to coverage options (e.g., Hidden Power Ground, Giga Drain…). Even Hidden Power Ice, which might seem gimmicky or unnecessary at first, can ease the way for Volcarona to sweep teams it would normally struggle to beat. With the rise of balance and bulky offense, it makes theoretical sense for Volcarona to rise in viability. However, in practice, the matchup moth still runs into more issues than expected. Chansey is not exclusively used on defensive teams; Pokémon like Garchomp, Keldeo, Dragonite, Azumarill, and even Tyranitar are commonly used; Heatran’s usage is quite high, which means that a non-HP Ground Volcarona will have a harder time against teams packing a Heatran. While Volcarona can beat some of the previously mentioned Pokémon, like Keldeo, after minimal chip, it often has to choose two moves out of 3 (Giga Drain, Bug Buzz, and HP Ground). HP Ice is even harder to fit, though it retains an element of surprise against some of Volcarona’s usual checks. Depending on the move selection, Volcarona will struggle to break past some Pokémon without a good amount of prior chip. For example, a Volcarona lacking Bug Buzz (or HP Ice) will have a harder time against a Psyshock Latios. Bulky sets are also worth considering, but they should probably invest more into Speed to avoid something like Choice Scarf Landorus-T halting them in their tracks at +1. Even with HP Ground, Volcarona still requires more team support than many of the Pokémon in A. For instance, it mandates solid hazard removal and something to take on Chansey on its behalf. Having said that, these issues are not necessarily specific to Volcarona; they rather stem from common team necessities that players should at least consider in the teambuilder, although it can be argued that Volcarona exacerbates them further. Some meta trends also work in Volcarona’s favor and it is not the easiest Pokémon to revenge kill. For example, +1 offensive Volcarona is able to outspeed and KO Choice Scarf Landorus-T with Fire Blast, while Flamethrower has a high chance to KO it after Stealth Rock damage. While Volcarona has the potential to beat certain teams after a single Quiver Dance, it must be stated that it can sometimes still put in some work against teams that can seemingly stop its set altogether. I personally find it to be too inconsistent for A (at least for the time being), but I am open to more discussion on this topic. Thundurus-T: B → B+? Thundurus-T is a threatening Pokémon and, although slower than its Incarnate counterpart, has the necessary positive traits to make up for that discrepancy. It hits harder and has a useful ability in Volt Absorb, which lets it take advantage of certain Electric types, such as Zapdos, an increasingly common Pokémon, and Magnezone, one of the most used Pokémon for the PvP Season of June 2021. Thundurus-T also makes Rotom-W more fearful of clicking Volt Switch over Hydro Pump. Thundurus-T’s sweeping potential cannot be understated, either. Agility, in conjunction with Electric-, Ice-, and Fighting-type coverage, turns Thundurus-T into a devastating Pokémon that can almost only be checked defensively (unless you are relying on a Focus Blast miss). Given Thundurus-T’s high Special Attack, not many Pokémon can check it defensively. Chansey is a stellar answer to sets lacking Nasty Plot, while the Lati twins, defensive Ground types (e.g., Hippowdon, Gastrodon…), and some Assault Vest users (e.g., Tangrowth) can beat it in a one-on-one scenario most of the time. Offensively speaking, Sucker Punch and Ice Shard users can attempt to revenge kill a weakened Thundurus-T after it has used Agility, with Choice Band Weavile only requiring minimal chip before being able to KO it. Thundurus-T can find setup opportunities against some Electric- and Steel-type Pokémon, like Ferrothorn, Zapdos, Skarmory, some Mega Scizor sets. Moreover, it can try to set up against Pokémon that it forces out due to its coverage moves KOing them, such as Gliscor, Slowbro, Tornadus-T… Agility helps Thundurus-T against more offensive and faster builds, while Nasty Plot gives it a boon against balanced and more defensive teams, where it can muscle past the likes of Chansey and Clefable more easily than Thundurus-I. Unlike its counterpart, it can sometimes afford to run a Modest nature. Ditto: C+? This one-dimensional Pokémon is one of the best revenge killers in the metagame. Ditto tends to perform relatively well on builds that struggle against setup sweepers and where it acts as a setup deterrent. Ditto can also help some defensive teams against other defensive and Stall teams because it replenishes its PPs every time that it switches in, thus giving the Ditto team the PP advantage in a scenario that could result in a PP war. Last but certainly not least, Ditto’s main application in PRO misuses the Pokémon on poorly built teams that should be rebuilt from scratch to avoid needing a Ditto to fix their problems in the first place. On those builds, ones that tend to suffer from the Chansey syndrome, also known as the “add this Pokémon for a quick and easy fix” afterthought, Ditto can perform well, too, preventing several dangerous threats from sweeping an otherwise almost fully dysfunctional team. In a metagame shifting towards balance and bulky offense, Ditto struggles to perform decently against some of the most common builds. Ditto is still an extremely niche Pokémon, but its niche is invaluable to some teams and many team builders. Considering that most suggestions recommended Ditto for a rise (sometimes even to the A ranks), I remain open to discuss a potential Ditto rise, as long as sufficiently convincing arguments are presented. Other discussion points that I currently do not have the time to comment on, but that might be worth debating: Mega Metagross: A+? Garchomp: A+ → A? Heatran: A+ → A? Mega Diancie: A → A-? Breloom: B+ → B? Mega Heracross: B+ → B? Mega Latios: B+ → B? Lucario: B- → C+? Heracross: C+ → C? Rotom-Heat: C → C-? Mega Ampharos: C- → Unranked? Porygon-Z: C- → Unranked? Sylveon: C- → Unranked? Venomoth: C- → Unranked? Haxorus: Unranked → C-? Krookodile: Unranked → C-? Swellow: Unranked → C-?

First of all, I would like to thank @Gio and @Nornornor444 for substantial contributions to this project. Speed stats are an important defining characteristic of each Pokémon species. They determine the order of moves made by Pokémon during a battle. Assuming an equal level of priority, Pokémon with a higher Speed stat at the start of any given turn will make a move before those with lower Speed. In the case of a Speed tie, which occurs when two Pokémon have the same Speed, one of them will randomly go first. Speed-altering moves, like Dragon Dance or Hammer Arm, only start affecting a Pokémon’s speed on the following turn. You should first identify the maximum Speed of the Pokémon of your choice. You must take into account its Speed IVs and, based on the Pokémon that you want it to outspeed, distribute its EVs accordingly. For example, if your Jolly Gliscor has 31 Speed IVs, you can give it 112 EVs to reach 279 Speed and outspeed any non-Choice Scarf Timid Heatran with max Speed IVs and EVs (i.e., 278 Speed). If your Jolly Gliscor only has 26 IVs, you can give it 132 Speed EVs to achieve the same feat. When you do this, it is best to assume perfect IVs for opposing Pokémon. This thread will only provide the Speed stats of currently viable Pokémon, so it will not cover every single Pokémon in the game, since it primarily is a PvP-focused resource. The updated Viability Rankings can be found here. For PvP sets that detail moves and EVs for each viable Pokémon, you may check out this (outdated) resource, which will be updated in the future with more accurate and relevant information. Since there are far too many viable Speed tiers and Pokémon sets, some will understandably be missing from the list. For example, you may encounter a Bold Volcarona with 240 or 241 Speed or a Pokémon not even mentioned in this thread. Similarly, you may also run into a Zapdos with a Speed number that is not listed below. Many players do not have perfect Speed IVs on all their Pokémon and some opt for unusual or custom EV spreads tailored according to the needs of their teams. The following Speed Tier list is separated into six different tiers: Pokémon with 500+ Speed, those with 400+ Speed, those with 300+ Speed, those with 200+ Speed, those with 100+ Speed, and those with less than 100 Speed. The items within each tier are arranged in descending order, that is, from the fastest Pokémon to the slowest. In some cases, specific scenarios or boosts are taken into account. For example, Trace Mega Alakazam using its ability to copy Sand Rush or Swift Swim becomes twice as fast as normal when the relevant weather is up. Only 2 additional Speed stages will be counted at most for Pokémon that can boost their own Speed thanks to Quiver Dance, Dragon Dance, Speed Boost, etc. 500 and above Pokémon Base Nature EVs IVs Stage Total Mega Alakazam 150 Positive 252 31 +2 876 Mega Alakazam 150 Neutral 252 31 +2 798 Ribombee 124 Positive 252 31 +2 762 Hawlucha 118 Positive 252 31 +2 736 Scolipede 112 Positive 252 31 +2 710 Mega Diancie 110 Positive 252 31 +2 700 Mega Metagross 110 Positive 252 31 +2 700 Mega Sharpedo 105 Positive 252 31 +2 678 Hawlucha 118 Neutral 252 31 +2 670 Thundurus-T 101 Positive 252 31 +2 662 Mega Charizard X 100 Positive 252 31 +2 656 Salamence 100 Positive 252 31 +2 656 Volcarona 100 Positive 252 31 +2 656 Scolipede 112 Neutral 252 31 +2 646 Mega Diancie 110 Neutral 252 31 +2 638 Mega Metagross 110 Neutral 252 31 +2 638 Landorus-T 91 Positive 252 31 +2 618 Mega Sharpedo 105 Neutral 252 31 +2 618 Excadrill 88 Positive 252 31 +2 604 Thundurus-T 101 Neutral 252 31 +2 602 Mega Charizard X 100 Neutral 252 31 +2 598 Volcarona 100 Neutral 252 31 +2 598 Kommo-o 85 Positive 252 31 +2 590 Gyarados 81 Positive 252 31 +2 574 Mega Gyarados 81 Positive 252 31 +2 574 Ribombee 124 Positive 252 31 +1 571 Dragonite 80 Positive 252 31 +2 568 Mega Altaria 80 Positive 252 31 +2 568 Landorus-T 91 Neutral 252 31 +2 562 Excadrill 88 Neutral 252 31 +2 550 Kingdra 85 Neutral 252 31 +2 538 Serperior 113 Positive 252 31 +1 535 Scolipede 112 Positive 252 31 +1 532 Mega Tyranitar 71 Positive 252 31 +2 530 Gengar 110 Positive 252 31 +1 525 Latias 110 Positive 252 31 +1 525 Latios 110 Positive 252 31 +1 525 Cloyster 70 Positive 252 31 +2 524 Mega Swampert 70 Positive 252 31 +2 524 Keldeo 108 Positive 252 31 +1 519 Dragonite 80 Neutral 252 31 +2 518 Mega Altaria 80 Neutral 252 31 +2 518 Venusaur (HP Fire) 80 Neutral 252 30 +2 516 Mega Sharpedo 105 Positive 252 31 +1 508 400-499 Pokémon Base Nature EVs IVs Stage Total Garchomp 102 Positive 252 31 +1 499 Jirachi 100 Positive 252 31 +1 492 Mega Charizard X 100 Positive 252 31 +1 492 Salamence 100 Positive 252 31 +1 492 Staraptor 100 Positive 252 31 +1 492 Volcarona 100 Positive 252 31 +1 492 Hydreigon 98 Positive 252 31 +1 486 Scolipede 112 Neutral 252 31 +1 484 Cloyster 70 Neutral 252 31 +2 478 Mega Swampert 70 Neutral 252 31 +2 478 Landorus-T 91 Positive 252 31 +1 463 Mega Sharpedo 105 Neutral 252 31 +1 463 Excadrill 88 Positive 252 31 +1 453 Mega Charizard X 100 Neutral 252 31 +1 448 Volcarona 100 Neutral 252 31 +1 448 Rotom-W 86 Positive 252 31 +1 447 Kommo-o 85 Positive 252 31 +1 442 Mega Aerodactyl 150 Positive 252 31 +0 438 Mega Alakazam 150 Positive 252 31 +0 438 Gyarados 81 Positive 252 31 +1 430 Mega Gyarados 81 Positive 252 31 +1 430 Mega Beedrill 145 Positive 252 31 +0 427 Mega Sceptile 145 Positive 252 31 +0 427 Chandelure 80 Positive 252 31 +1 426 Dragonite 80 Positive 252 31 +1 426 Mega Altaria 80 Positive 252 31 +1 426 Togekiss 80 Positive 252 31 +1 426 Diggersby 78 Positive 252 31 +1 420 Heatran 77 Positive 252 31 +1 417 Mega Altaria 80 Neutral 28 31 +2 406 Mega Lopunny 135 Positive 252 31 +0 405 Mega Manectric 135 Positive 252 31 +0 405 300-399 Pokémon Base Nature EVs IVs Stage Total Mega Alakazam 150 Neutral 252 31 +0 399 Mega Tyranitar 71 Positive 252 31 +1 397 Aerodactyl 130 Positive 252 31 +0 394 Magneton (HP Fire) 70 Positive 252 30 +1 391 Dragonite 80 Neutral 252 31 +1 388 Mega Altaria 80 Neutral 252 31 +1 388 Weavile 125 Positive 252 31 +0 383 Ribombee 124 Positive 252 31 +0 381 Mega Pidgeot 121 Positive 252 31 +0 375 Tornadus-T 121 Positive 252 31 +0 375 Alakazam 120 Positive 252 31 +0 372 Hawlucha 118 Positive 252 31 +0 368 Tyranitar 61 Positive 252 31 +1 364 Azelf 115 Positive 252 31 +0 361 Mega Absol 115 Positive 252 31 +0 361 Mega Houndoom 115 Positive 252 31 +0 361 Raikou 115 Positive 252 31 +0 361 Starmie 115 Positive 252 31 +0 361 Magnezone (HP Fire) 60 Positive 252 30 +1 358 Serperior 113 Positive 252 31 +0 357 Serperior (HP Fire) 113 Positive 252 30 +0 356 Scolipede 112 Positive 252 31 +0 355 Thundurus-I 111 Positive 252 31 +0 353 Gengar 110 Positive 252 31 +0 350 Latias 110 Positive 252 31 +0 350 Latios 110 Positive 252 31 +0 350 Mega Diancie 110 Positive 252 31 +0 350 Mega Gallade 110 Positive 252 31 +0 350 Mega Latias 110 Positive 252 31 +0 350 Mega Latios 110 Positive 252 31 +0 350 Mega Metagross 110 Positive 252 31 +0 350 Alolan Ninetales 109 Positive 252 31 +0 348 Infernape 108 Positive 252 31 +0 346 Keldeo 108 Positive 252 31 +0 346 Mega Pinsir 105 Positive 252 31 +0 339 Mega Sharpedo 105 Positive 252 31 +0 339 Hawlucha 118 Neutral 252 31 +0 335 Garchomp 102 Positive 252 31 +0 333 Thundurus-T 101 Positive 252 31 +0 331 Celebi 100 Positive 252 31 +0 328 Jirachi 100 Positive 252 31 +0 328 Manaphy 100 Positive 252 31 +0 328 Mega Charizard X 100 Positive 252 31 +0 328 Mega Charizard Y 100 Positive 252 31 +0 328 Mega Gardevoir 100 Positive 252 31 +0 328 Mega Medicham 100 Positive 252 31 +0 328 Mew 100 Positive 252 31 +0 328 Salamence 100 Positive 252 31 +0 328 Staraptor 100 Positive 252 31 +0 328 Volcarona 100 Positive 252 31 +0 328 Zapdos 100 Positive 252 31 +0 328 Hydreigon 98 Positive 252 31 +0 324 Scolipede 112 Neutral 252 31 +0 323 Haxorus 97 Positive 252 31 +0 322 Mimikyu 96 Positive 252 31 +0 320 Mega Diancie 110 Neutral 252 31 +0 319 Mega Metagross 110 Neutral 252 31 +0 319 Gliscor 95 Positive 252 31 +0 317 Kyurem 95 Positive 252 31 +0 317 Mega Garchomp 92 Positive 252 31 +0 311 Alolan Golem 45 Positive 252 31 +1 310 Landorus-T 91 Positive 252 31 +0 309 Mega Pinsir 105 Neutral 252 31 +0 309 Mega Sharpedo 105 Neutral 252 31 +0 309 Lucario 90 Positive 252 31 +0 306 Mega Altaria 80 Neutral 28 31 +1 304 Excadrill 88 Positive 252 31 +0 302 Thundurus-T 101 Neutral 252 31 +0 301 200-299 Pokémon Base Nature EVs IVs Stage Total Manaphy 100 Neutral 252 31 +0 299 Mega Charizard X 100 Neutral 252 31 +0 299 Mega Charizard Y 100 Neutral 252 31 +0 299 Mega Gardevoir 100 Neutral 252 31 +0 299 Mega Medicham 100 Neutral 252 31 +0 299 Staraptor 100 Neutral 252 31 +0 299 Volcarona 100 Neutral 252 31 +0 299 Rotom-W 86 Positive 252 31 +0 298 Gliscor 95 Positive 176 31 +0 297 Heracross 85 Positive 252 31 +0 295 Hydreigon 98 Neutral 252 31 +0 295 Kommo-o 85 Positive 252 31 +0 295 Nidoking 85 Positive 252 31 +0 295 Suicune 85 Positive 252 31 +0 295 Toxicroak 85 Positive 252 31 +0 295 Mimikyu 96 Neutral 252 31 +0 291 Kyurem 95 Neutral 252 31 +0 289 Gyarados 81 Positive 252 31 +0 287 Mega Gyarados 81 Positive 252 31 +0 287 Suicune 85 Positive 216 31 +0 286 Chandelure 80 Positive 252 31 +0 284 Dragonite 80 Positive 252 31 +0 284 Mamoswine 80 Positive 252 31 +0 284 Mega Altaria 80 Positive 252 31 +0 284 Togekiss 80 Positive 252 31 +0 284 Mega Garchomp 92 Neutral 252 31 +0 283 Landorus-T 91 Neutral 252 31 +0 281 Diggersby 78 Positive 252 31 +0 280 Gliscor 95 Positive 112 31 +0 279 Lucario 90 Neutral 252 31 +0 279 Heatran 77 Positive 252 31 +0 278 Excadrill 88 Neutral 252 31 +0 275 Mega Heracross 75 Positive 252 31 +0 273 Mega Scizor 75 Positive 252 31 +0 273 Heracross 85 Neutral 252 31 +0 269 Kingdra 85 Neutral 252 31 +0 269 Mega Tyranitar 71 Positive 252 31 +0 265 Tentacruel 100 Positive 16 31 +0 264 Togekiss 80 Positive 176 31 +0 264 Celebi 100 Neutral 108 31 +0 263 Garchomp 102 Neutral 92 31 +0 263 Bisharp 70 Positive 252 31 +0 262 Breloom 70 Positive 252 31 +0 262 Cloyster 70 Positive 252 31 +0 262 Mega Swampert 70 Positive 252 31 +0 262 Volcanion 70 Positive 252 31 +0 262 Chandelure 80 Neutral 252 31 +0 259 Dragonite 80 Neutral 252 31 +0 259 Mamoswine 80 Neutral 252 31 +0 259 Mega Altaria 80 Neutral 252 31 +0 259 Venusaur (HP Fire) 80 Neutral 252 30 +0 258 Diggersby 78 Neutral 252 31 +0 255 Pelipper 65 Positive 252 31 +0 251 Scizor 65 Positive 252 31 +0 251 Mega Heracross 75 Neutral 252 31 +0 249 Mega Scizor 75 Neutral 252 31 +0 249 Celebi 100 Neutral 32 31 +0 244 Gliscor 95 Neutral 72 31 +0 244 Jirachi 100 Neutral 32 31 +0 244 Mew 100 Neutral 32 31 +0 244 Zapdos 100 Neutral 32 31 +0 244 Tyranitar 61 Positive 252 31 +0 243 Manaphy 100 Neutral 20 31 +0 241 Tentacruel 100 Neutral 20 31 +0 241 Clefable 60 Positive 252 31 +0 240 Gliscor 95 Neutral 56 31 +0 240 Kommo-o 85 Neutral 136 31 +0 240 Zapdos 100 Neutral 16 31 +0 240 Bisharp 70 Neutral 252 31 +0 239 Breloom 70 Neutral 252 31 +0 239 Closyter 70 Neutral 252 31 +0 239 Magnezone (HP Fire) 60 Positive 252 30 +0 239 Mega Swampert 70 Neutral 252 31 +0 239 Volcanion 70 Neutral 252 31 +0 239 Crawdaunt 55 Positive 252 31 +0 229 Pelipper 65 Neutral 252 31 +0 229 Scizor 65 Neutral 252 31 +0 229 Excadrill 88 Neutral 40 31 +0 222 Landorus-T 91 Neutral 16 31 +0 222 Mega Heracross 75 Neutral 144 31 +0 222 Mega Scizor 75 Neutral 144 31 +0 222 Rotom-W 86 Neutral 56 31 +0 222 Tyranitar 61 Neutral 252 31 +0 221 Clefable 60 Neutral 252 31 +0 219 Azumarill 50 Positive 252 31 +0 218 Magnezone (HP Fire) 60 Neutral 252 30 +0 218 Diancie 50 Positive 252 31 +0 218 Landorus-T 91 Neutral 0 31 +0 218 Heatran 77 Neutral 80 31 +0 210 Crawdaunt 55 Neutral 252 31 +0 209 Rotom-W 86 Neutral 0 31 +0 208 Kommo-o 85 Neutral 0 31 +0 206 Suicune 85 Neutral 0 31 +0 206 Mega Altaria 80 Neutral 28 31 +0 203 Clefable 60 Neutral 176 31 +0 200 Mandibuzz 80 Neutral 16 31 +0 200 Mega Altaria 80 Neutral 16 31 +0 200 Mega Scizor 75 Neutral 56 31 +0 200 Mega Tyranitar 71 Neutral 88 31 +0 200 Mega Venusaur (HP Fire) 80 Neutral 20 30 +0 200 Tyranitar 61 Neutral 168 31 +0 200 100-199 Pokémon Base Nature EVs IVs Stage Total Azumarill 50 Neutral 252 31 +0 199 Togekiss 80 Neutral 0 31 +0 196 Clefable 60 Neutral 136 31 +0 190 Heatran 77 Neutral 0 31 +0 190 Conkeldurr 45 Neutral 252 31 +0 189 Klefki 75 Neutral 0 31 +0 186 Mega Scizor 75 Neutral 0 31 +0 186 Azumarill 50 Neutral 164 31 +0 177 Mantine 70 Neutral 0 31 +0 176 Skarmory 70 Neutral 0 31 +0 176 Uxie 95 Negative 0 01 +0 176 Jellicent 60 Neutral 44 31 +0 167 Alomomola 65 Neutral 0 31 +0 166 Pelipper 65 Neutral 0 31 +0 166 Scizor 65 Neutral 0 31 +0 166 Chesnaught 64 Neutral 0 31 +0 164 Clefable 60 Neutral 16 31 +0 160 Conkeldurr 45 Neutral 136 31 +0 160 Cresselia 85 Negative 0 01 +0 158 Tyranitar 61 Neutral 0 31 +0 158 Clefable 60 Neutral 0 31 +0 156 Blissey 55 Neutral 0 31 +0 146 Tyranitar 61 Negative 0 31 +0 142 Mega Heracross 75 Negative 0 01 +0 140 Alolan Muk 50 Neutral 0 31 +0 136 Azumarill 50 Neutral 0 31 +0 136 Chansey 50 Neutral 0 31 +0 136 Mega Aggron 50 Neutral 0 31 +0 136 Hippowdon 47 Neutral 0 31 +0 130 Tangrowth 50 Negative 0 31 +0 122 Gastrodon 39 Neutral 0 31 +0 114 Crawdaunt 55 Negative 0 01 +0 104 Gastrodon 39 Negative 0 31 +0 102 99 and below Pokémon Base Nature EVs IVs Stage Total Mega Slowbro 30 Neutral 0 31 +0 96 Reuniclus 30 Neutral 0 31 +0 96 Slowbro 30 Neutral 0 31 +0 96 Slowking 30 Neutral 0 31 +0 96 Amoonguss (HP Fire) 30 Neutral 0 30 +0 95 Quagsire 35 Negative 0 31 +0 95 Avalugg 28 Neutral 0 31 +0 92 Alolan Marowak 45 Negative 0 01 +0 86 Amoonguss (HP Fire) 30 Negative 0 30 +0 85 Ferrothorn 20 Neutral 0 31 +0 76 Torkoal 20 Neutral 0 31 +0 76 Reuniclus 30 Negative 0 01 +0 59 Shuckle 5 Neutral 0 31 +0 46 Ferrothorn 20 Negative 0 01 +0 41

Thank you for bringing this up, idkup. After extensively using both Lati twins last season, I can safely say that they are both worthy of an A placement. I did encounter several KeldTar teams, but even those did not particularly hinder the performance of either one of the Lati twins. Weavile teams have to play risky games and either sacrifice a Pokémon to bring in their Pursuit trapper or hope that Latios or Latias is clicking Defog or Recover/Roost. Latias' utility and bulk is always appreciated and, unlike Latios, it does not always have to heal up after switching into Mega Charizard Y, Keldeo, Volcanion, etc. Healing Wish Latias is particularly good on dedicated offensive teams that appreciate having a check to specific dangerous threats (such as the ones I just mentioned) that also happens to possess Defog and the ability to give one of its teammates a second chance. As for Latios, I have been an avid user of the Life Orb variant, as I do appreciate its ever so slight increase in power (in comparison to Soul Dew variants). It still manages to chunk Heatran and Ferrothorn quite nicely while obliterating the likes of Zapdos, which might attempt to Roost up on its powerful Draco Meteor, if they happen to be faintly weakened. Choice Specs sets are quite prediction-reliant but can wallbreak rather effectively and are a threat to all teams. I am less sold on Choice Scarf Latios, because I would then prefer using Latias, but I can acknowledge the occasional worth of such a set. I do not particularly find Mega Alakazam to be overrated. I only faced it a couple of times, but it managed to land all its hits while sometimes lowering the Special Defense of my main checks for it. I think it is still dangerous in a metagame where many teams (mostly balanced ones) are relying on their defensive Mega Alakazam checks without necessarily having any priority move in the back to handle it if it ever gets out of hand (e.g., Calm Mind, Substitute...). From personal experience, Mega Scizor was also surprisingly uncommon last season, at least on Silver server. Oftentimes, players find themselves in a position to have to hope that Mega Alakazam misses Focus Blast against something that could KO it back. As for Mega Medicham, I was not impressed by its performance. I think its frailty and relatively lackluster Speed are definitely holding it back. Slowbro has been increasing in usage and I have even encountered some Mew sets that can always survive its hits. Overall, I do think it might be the weakest Mega in A+, but I am open to other opinions. Finally, we get to Mega Diancie... I still find that it struggles far too much against all archetypes to be considered on par with other A+ threats. Chansey is still one of the most used Pokémon in the metagame and Ferrothorn gives it too much trouble on balanced builds. I will admit, however, that it makes it easier to anticipate certain switch-ins to try to take advantage of them. Protect is also a double-edged weapon, as it allows the player to scout for Choice-locked users while leaving the outplay door open for both parties.

You know, Bash... I never thought I needed a Lanturn in my life until I saw yours. Maybe we can negotiate.

50 CCs (17.5m).

40 CCs (14m) then.

30 CCs (10.5m).

20 CCs (7m).

12 CCs (4.2m).

Can be closed.

The auction is over. @GCheik is the winner. Please message me either on the forum or on Discord (Jorogumo#1523) to arrange the time and location of the trade.

Bump! A bit over 15 hours left.