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Jorogumo last won the day on March 5 2022

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  1. Hey. There's a more recent version of this thread here. However, it's not fully up-to-date anymore. There's been several metagame developments since the last update and I haven't had time to keep up with all of them. Z-Moves, Tapus, and other Pokemon are allowed in Ranked PvP for the time being, but they were announced as temporary additions, so I didn't feel the need to rework the other VR list yet.
  2. This is another scenario that will almost never matter in practice. If your Ditto is slower than an opposing Ditto, the nature and the speed will help you in a Struggle war. Otherwise, any nature and speed IV can work as long as your Ditto has Imposter.
  3. Hey. This is minor and will mostly never matter in practice. Basically, 29 HP IVs minimize Life Orb recoil. If Gengar has 30+ HP IVs, it will have 260+ HP and will lose 26 HP every time that Life Orb activates. However, with 29 HP IVs, it will have 259 HP and will only lose 25 HP with every hit because 25.9 is rounded down to 25 due to the way Pokemon mechanics work. This makes 29 HP IVs an optimal choice, but it's totally optional and having higher or lower HP IVs will work just as fine. For the purpose of this (now outdated) thread, I tried to optimize sets and spreads as much as possible.
  4. Small VR changes: Garchomp: A+ → A Breloom: B+ → B Cofagrigus: C- → C The reasons for these changes were mentioned in the #top25-pvp-chat channel of the PRO Discord server on June 8, 2022. I recommend reading them if you are curious about them. There was also some discussion about Landorus-T, Amoonguss, and Starmie. For now, they all remain in their respective tiers (S, B+, and B-). However, while I generally agree with their current placements, I haven't fully made up my mind one way or the other and would like to see them being discussed further. Kyurem-B is still a recent addition and more time is needed before ranking it. Feel free to discuss that one as well. Edit: Kyurem-B has been tentatively added to A- on August 17, 2022.
  5. Here is the successful application of the newest council member, Nornornor444. About you Main account name: Nornornor444 Alternate account names (only if relevant): Rosani Main server: Silver Your PvP experience Highest rating ever achieved: 529 Highest ranking ever achieved: #5 Number of PRO tournaments (i.e., PRO Ladder Tours or PRO Summer Tours) won: 0 Highest placement in PRO tournaments: 3rd in ladder tournament You and PRO PvP What is your favorite Pokémon to use competitively, and why? Clefable. Clefable has all the good moves which makes it a great utility mon. Having great spatking moves along with Moonblast such as Flamethrower, Ice beam, Thunderbolt gives it great coverage. Access to Thunder wave and Knock Off allows it to cripple switch ins. Having Calm Mind gives Clefable a chance to sweep. Unaware Clef does its role in stall team, dealing with set up sweepers as well as Wish Pass. What is your least favorite Pokémon to face competitively, and why? Static Zapdos with defog. Self explanatory, no one wants their Mega Metagross to be paralyzed. How would you describe the current PRO metagame (i.e., Normal Ranked PvP) to a new PRO player who is familiar with competitive Pokémon in other games or platforms? It's uncompetitive and boring. PRO Meta is somewhat in between Gen6 and Gen7, with the worst mechanics coming from each gen. Gen6 with no defog makes it better for offensive teams to perform better, meanwhile in gen7 almost everything has defog, even static zapdos. Gen7 has better special attackers than PRO Meta which makes PRO mostly a physical meta. Archetype such as stall almost always has no answer for hard hitting wallbreakers such as Band Ttar, Specs keld, Mega Medicham, Band Crawdaunt etc as well as Stallbreaker Torn, Mew. About the PRO PvP Council Why are you interested in applying to join the PRO PvP Council? How do you feel about its current state? I'm interested in applying to the PRO PvP Council because I want to use my knowledge and help shape the meta. Currently, PRO PvP Council has some inactive members not playing the game as much as before, which is why I believe it needs to be shaped. According to you, what should be the role and duties of the PRO PvP Council? The main role of the PRO PvP Council is to help shape the meta, have the meta healthy and enjoyable for players to enjoy. About the current PRO PvP metagame What is your evaluation of the state of offensive, balanced and defensive teams in the current metagame? Do you believe that the PRO PvP Council should intervene and take action to change the situation or not? Hyper offense is not that good in the meta right now, with too many defoggers and static zapdos. The teams are most of the time fat which makes it difficult for hyper offense to perform very well. Bulky Offense is probably the best archetype in the meta right now, as it has ways to deal with most archetypes. Balance has never been good enough to use on ladder considering balance is always about making predicts to get momentum, and losing momentum due to defensive answers. Balance usually never has the upper hand in the match up which makes the player having to predict a lot to win, and definitely not something a new player should use. Stall teams in the meta right now is just bad. There are hardly any answer for Specs Keldeo + Banded Ttar, or mega medicham/banded crawdaunt in stall teams. Stallbreaker Torn usually always just wins vs stalls easily. There are too many ways to beat stalls. Volt Turn with rocks pressure is very hard to deal with for stalls. Addition of Mega Sableye would easily make stall very good but it's not really the way. There isn't much PRO PvP Council can do to fix the metagame, as the blame completely goes for not releasing more gen7 mons that could shape the meta more and make the metagame more healthy. In general, what makes something ban-worthy, and why? The lack of answers in the metagame for a certain mon makes it ban-worthy. Not having many reliable answers, and making teambuilding very limited, such as having to run a certain mon to check something. In your opinion, is Mega Metagross ban-worthy? Justify your answer. Mega Metagross is not ban-worthy in the metagame right now. But it is certainly one of the best megas in the game right now. Megagross was not banned in Gen6 but banned in Gen7. One of the major nerf for megagross in gen6 was the mega speed not being added the turn it megas. The difference between 262-350 is huge. Meanwhile in gen7, megagross would have been dominant with the addition of terrains. Mega Metagross can be simply put as 'Broken' with every terrain helping it somehow; Grassy Terrain helps with recovery every turn and half the damage from EQ, Misty Terrain saving it from Will O Wisps, Psychic Terrain for boosted power with Zen Headbutt and immune to sucker punch, Electric Terrain for that added thunder punch to two shot Skarmory and Slowbro. But right now, there are enough checks and ways to deal with megagross even though it's performance is top notch most of the times. Discuss one of the current PvP bans and explain why it is deserved or undeserved. Mega Mawile:- Mega Mawile honestly deserves to just go somewhere else. It's typing is ridiculous, with access to Pre Mega ability Intimidate let's it set up easily on a lot of pokemon. It has a great movepool, going with Play Rough, Fire Fang, Swords dance, Knock Off, Sucker Punch, Iron Head. It doesn't have much switch ins considering -1 252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 112+ Def Landorus-Therian: 163-193 (42.6 - 50.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery. Lando-T can only come out once after rocks. 252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zapdos: 222-262 (57.8 - 68.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery; has to go on a mindgame after with whether Mega Mawile will Play Rough or Sucker Punch, as you don't want to be in the receiving end of Play Rough when you roost and you die, Sucker Punch on your Heat Wave and die, 0 SpA Zapdos Heat Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mawile-Mega: 172-204 (71.3 - 84.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO do this and still die to play rough. 252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 96+ Def Slowbro: 306-362 (77.8 - 92.1%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock. That's not it considering if your only Mawile Switch in is Slowbro, Mawile can simply set up Swords Dance and threat to Ohko. There really isn't enough to deal with Mega Mawile except if someone runs Arcanine with Intimidate and Will O Wisp? Considering competitive Pokemon is a team game and Mega Mawile just has a huge impact with a well built team around it, as it is pretty easy to build a solid VoltTurn around it. Mega Mawile destroys stall entirely unless you slap a Quagsire in it, considering +2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Fire Fang vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 304-358 (91 - 107.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock. Quagsire still can't though; +2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Quagsire: 222-262 (56.3 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery. It's lack of speed and not as much versatile makes it not too entirely 'broken' but still a reasonable ban.
  6. The PvP Council is the entity in charge of overseeing the competitive side of PRO PvP. It currently caters to the higher end of the ladder, especially the top 25 players from each server, as well as ladder tournament participants. While we acknowledge that ladder tournaments display a higher skill cap, we cannot deny that the majority of PvP matches are played on the ladder and that the decisions of the PvP Council will impact the entire community. To promote an optimally healthy and competitive PvP environment, the PvP Council must take the necessary tiering actions when something is proven to negatively impact both the ladder and tournament play. This stems from the belief that it first has to become problematic before reaching a ban-worthy status, although exceptions, namely quick bans, can be made if the metagame otherwise runs the risk of being seriously compromised. It must be noted that the PvP Council must provide a justification for changing the status quo, that is, the (pre)existing state of affairs. The burden of proof should always lie with the side making a tiering proposal. That party should explain how something negatively affects both the ladder and ladder tournaments and why banning it is necessary. Conversely, said party should explain why unbanning something is possible and/or how it can positively impact PvP. While on the lookout for ways to improve the metagame, the PvP Council should consider different suggestions, use personal player experience, and keep an eye on new metagame additions. This period of scrutiny and informal observation should be followed by discussion surrounding the potential issue(s) to exchange arguments favoring or opposing metagame change(s). Following the debate period, the PvP Council should internally vote to determine whether any adjustment(s) should be made and, if so, what course(s) of action should be adopted. The bulk of these conversations takes place in the PvP Council channels of the official Pokémon Revolution Online Discord server. For further information regarding the PvP Council structure, please take a look at this thread: Introducing the PvP Council. Even if you do not meet all requirements, you may still be eligible for the Council position. However, overall, PvP Council applicants must: Have an extensive knowledge and understanding of the PRO PvP metagame. Be able to communicate and debate PvP matters in English efficiently and fluently. Have a relatively clean infraction history, particularly in relation to rank boosting and general behavior, as the infraction history of each applicant will be reviewed. Have an extensive PvP experience in PRO. Carefully follow all the rules of the official Pokémon Revolution Online Discord server. If you are interested in joining the PvP Council, please fill out the application form below and post it in the PvP Council Application section of the forums. We ask that you keep your application confidential and avoid sharing your answers with other members of the PRO community. Moreover, helping other applicants with their applications is not allowed and will result in the rejection of your own application.
  7. Welcome to the Baby XD001 suspect test thread. Baby XD001 was first released during the 2021 Halloween event and has been an infamously controversial addition ever since, with its proponents seeing it as a welcome change and its opponents disagreeing with the path it seems to invite PRO to follow. Despite the preexistence of some unofficial Pokémon in the game, Baby XD001 is thought by many to cross a line as the first catchable one of the sort. Inspired by Shadow Lugia, it also possesses an unprecedented dual typing in Shadow / Flying, thus effectively introducing a new type to PRO. This left players both excited and perplexed by the prospect of using Baby XD001. The Shadow type works similarly to the way it operated in Pokémon Colosseum and Pokémon XD: Gale of Darkness. Offensively, it inflicts STAB-less super effective damage to every type except itself, since Shadow-type moves are not very effective against Shadow-type Pokémon. It is worth nothing that, while Shadow moves themselves do not receive STAB, other moves used by Baby XD001, like Aeroblast, do. Moreover, Shadow-type moves always deal x2 super effective damage, even to Pokémon with a dual typing. Defensively, all moves – with the exception of Shadow-type ones – deal neutral damage to the Shadow type. This means that Baby XD001 will virtually be receiving damage as a pure Flying type, making it weak to Electric-, Ice-, and Rock-type attacks. Baby XD001’s initial base stats were as follows: 20 ATK, 105 DEF, 100 SPD, 55 SPATK, 110 SPDEF, and 70 HP. The HP stat was recently buffed to 76 to prevent potential issues that could arise due to the conversion of Baby XD001 into Baby Lugia, its “purified” counterpart, in the future. As a result, DEF and SPDEF were respectively nerfed down from 105 to 100 and from 110 to 105. Thus, Baby XD001’s current base stats are as follows: 20 ATK, 100 DEF, 100 SPD, 55 SPATK, 105 SPDEF, and 76 HP. Baby XD001 possesses two Abilities: Marvel Scale and Multiscale. Marvel Scale multiplies the Pokémon’s Defense by 1.5 if it has a non-volatile status condition. While Baby XD001 is arguably prone to status, it can utilize Marvel Scale to take advantage of burns. In an effort to maximize the potential of this Ability while simultaneously avoiding other forms of status, Baby XD001 can wield a Flame Orb. The Hidden Ability, Multiscale, halves the damage taken from attacks if the Pokémon is at full HP. Considering Baby XD001’s primary Shadow typing, it can utilize Multiscale well, in conjunction with other moves, like Roost and Calm Mind, to become harder to take down. Baby XD001 learns four Shadow-type moves: Shadow Blast, Shadow Down, Shadow Shed, and Shadow Storm. From a PvP standpoint, Shadow Storm particularly stands out for having a Base Power of 95 coupled with perfect accuracy. Aside from Shadow moves, Baby XD001 possesses the same moves as Lugia – with the exception of four “purified” ones: Earthquake, Feather Dance, Hydro Pump, and Psycho Boost. While its offensive coverage is good and varied, Baby XD001 is likely to find itself in situations where clicking Shadow Storm is more beneficial. However, due to its limited PPs, ranging from 10 to 16, other options can be considered. Furthermore, Baby XD001 learns many utility moves, such as Calm Mind, Defog, Rest, Roost, Sleep Talk, Substitute, Tail Wind, Thunder Wave, Toxic, Trick, and Whirlwind. Despite a deceptively low SPATK stat of 55, Baby XD001 can take advantage of Choice Specs to run a specially offensive set capable of 2HKOing the vast majority of the metagame with just Shadow Storm. On that set, it can even use Trick to circumvent one of its main roadblocks in Chansey. While a Timid nature can viably be used to reach 328 Speed, a Modest nature allows Baby XD001 to have more immediate breaking power and transforms some 3HKOs into 2HKOs. Having said that, Baby XD001 can alternatively run other, viable sets revolving around moves like Calm Mind and Defog. For example, it can make use of Calm Mind with Multiscale and Leftovers or Marvel Scale and Flame Orb. On sets like those, which can be fully offensive, bulky or even fully defensive, Baby XD001 does not lack versatility. For instance, Marvel Scale Flame Orb sets with Calm Mind can run a move like Toxic to improve the match-up against defensive teams. Overall, depending on its set, Baby XD001 can choose its battles and accommodate its own needs or those of its teammates. It is also worth noting that, despite its name, Baby XD001 cannot use Eviolite because it is not considered unevolved. The list of Pokémon able to handle most or all of Baby XD001’s sets is both limited and somewhat set-dependent. Defensively speaking, Chansey and Baby XD001 itself stand out as the most reliable answers due to their ability to stomach powerful Shadow Storm attacks. Assault Vest Tornadus-T can switch into Baby XD001 and threaten to remove its item or generate momentum, although it is faster. Unaware Clefable can take on most Calm Mind sets but must be wary of moves like Toxic or sets such as Choice Specs, making Bold a far less reliable nature against Baby XD001. The same goes for Heatran, which cannot attempt to check Baby XD001 without a Calm nature. Common Pokémon, like Mega Scizor and Ferrothorn, can heavily invest into SPDEF to avoid the 2HKO at all times, but hazards and prior chip tend to make them shaky answers, especially in the long term. With or without Assault Vest, Tyranitar fears very little from Baby XD001 but has to choose between longevity and power. Mega Latias can reliably switch into it and attempt to beat it with Calm Mind and either Psyshock or Stored Power, though it cannot beat Toxic sets without Refresh or, at least, in some cases, Substitute. Amoonguss can threaten Baby XD001 with Spore and Clear Smog, but it should particularly watch out for Aeroblast. Some niche yet viable picks include Filter Mega Aggron, Alolan Muk, Ditto and specially defensive Clear Smog Gastrodon. While it is difficult to check Baby XD001 offensively, maintaining pressure and using faster threats can hinder its ability to retain Multiscale, stay healthy throughout the match or find opportunities to fire off its attacks. Finally, Stealth Rock, one of the most commonly used moves in PvP, prevents Baby XD001 from keeping said Multiscale intact by forcing it to take 25% damage every time that it comes into play. On paper, Baby XD001 can be used on a myriad of teams, ranging from semi-stall to hyper offense (e.g., Sticky Web, Veil…). It will be up to you to try to discover them and use them! When Baby XD001 was first released, it divided the PRO community and the PvP council. As a result, it was banned in October 2021 before ever being allowed in Ranked PvP. This suspect test will serve to determine whether the playerbase wants Baby XD001 to be legal or not. Many of those in favor of allowing Baby XD001 welcome the change it offers with open arms. They wish to give it a chance due to the overall staleness of the metagame, which has known no new, relevant additions since early 2021. They consider PRO as its own entity and separate it from other Pokémon games and platforms, thus appreciating the addition of unofficial Pokémon. While others are less vocal about allowing Baby XD001 just for the sake of implementing a change of any kind, they believe that it should at least be tested and given a fair trial solely based on its PvP performance. They find that Baby XD001 can benefit the game in the long term. Arguing in favor of a case-by-case basis, some even cite Timid Aura Sphere Raikou and Timid Eruption Heatran as unique examples that make PRO stand out. Several Baby XD001 proponents believe it would be manageable and far from ban-worthy since its average Speed tier and relatively low stats mitigate its potential and keep it in check by forcing the player to choose between bulk, power and speed. Those who oppose allowing Baby XD001 in Ranked PvP often cite the fact that it is an unofficial Pokémon with a unique, unprecedented typing that would discourage new or casual players from starting PvP and would demotivate veterans, possibly driving them away. They also view this addition as an unexpected and unwelcome surprise that goes against some of the reasons that prompted them to choose PRO in the first place. Moreover, they find that the Shadow type is an unnecessary complication with many practical repercussions, such as preventing players from properly running calculations or forcing them to learn all the characteristics of the Shadow type. To an extent, they even compare Baby XD001 to previously banned illegal combinations, like Soft-Boiled on Unaware Clefable, to justify a ban for the sake of consistency. Others, who do not necessarily oppose unofficial Pokémon, are against Baby XD001 due to the low opportunity cost of running it and spamming a single move: Shadow Storm. According to them, Baby XD001 is inherently broken because of its Shadow typing and does not contribute positively to the promotion of a skill-based metagame, as it might be too easy to use, too good at what it does, self-sufficient, or potentially overcentralizing. Once the suspect test begins, players will be able to interact with an NPC that will spawn a single Baby XD001. It will be guaranteed to have 31 SPD. Other IVs will be randomized but will at least be equal or superior to 20. When the season ends, every spawned Baby XD001 will be removed. This does not concern the ones previously caught during the Halloween event. The suspect test will last for the entirety of the February 2022 season, ending on February 28 – unless officially announced otherwise. In order to qualify and be eligible to vote, players will need to achieve a minimum rating of 300 over 30 (or more) games played. There will be no game limit or win rate requirement. 300+ rating and 30+ games will suffice. Players will only be able to qualify and vote once (i.e., on a single account). Moderators will make sure to double-check requirements and keep an eye on potential fraud attempts. Eligible voters will be able to vote in this thread after the season ends. It will remain locked until then. The qualified playerbase will vote to decide the outcome of this suspect test. There will be two options to choose from – BAN or UNBAN. The threshold to unban Baby XD001 must be ≥ 60% of the qualified votes cast (meaning that 60% would suffice to unban it). If this threshold is not met, Baby XD001 will remain banned. We hope that you will consider taking part in this suspect test. Good luck to everyone. Voting template: Vote (BAN or UNBAN): Account name: Server (Silver or Gold):
  8. The banner on the initial post has been updated. It now includes different Pokémon and, most notably, 3 Mega Evolutions: Mega Alakazam, Mega Metagross, and Mega Scizor.
  9. Suggestions and requests regarding current PvP bans Hello, everyone! The purpose of this thread is to allow players to formulate requests, proposals, and suggestions for potential change or improvement regarding current PvP bans in a manner that would indicate an alternative course of action. For example, if you disagree with a specific ban, please feel free to argue against it. I hope that this thread can serve as a way to better communication between the PvP Council and the rest of the players, especially those who may not frequently check Council-related PRO Discord channels. Moreover, this post should provide the playerbase with an exhaustive list of everything that is currently banned from Normal Ranked PvP, as well as the (brief) reasoning behind each individual ban. As there are several bans, there are multiple items to discuss one by one. I also plan to use the forums to publish future PRO PvP surveys and survey results in an effort to reach a larger number of players and organize all survey-related information in a single thread for more clarity and accessibility in the future. A third thread where players would be able to forward any suggestions or recommendations for PvP Council discussion or metagame improvement is potentially in the works, since this one is exclusively limited to current PvP bans. All of the following items are banned from the queue known as Normal Ranked PvP. Here they are in alphabetical order: Aegislash. At first, Aegislash was allowed with King’s Shield and quickly made a name for itself as the most centralizing Pokémon in the metagame. King’s Shield was then banned, in August 2020, in an attempt to keep it unbanned and in check by limiting its effectiveness. However, as it turned out, Aegislash was still a menace to most playstyles. Its versatility and unpredictability, combined with its unmatched offensive and defensive capabilities, ultimately pushed it over the top and made it an overcentralizing presence in the metagame, even without access to King’s Shield. It was banned in April 2021. Arena Trap. Arena Trap removed one of the main features of competitive Pokémon: the ability to switch. Unlike Magnet Pull, its targets were far greater in number (i.e., all grounded Pokémon that are not Ghost types). The main culprit, Dugtrio, enabled several offensive threats by removing their checks and counters from the game. Moreover, despite being an offensively oriented Pokémon, Dugtrio was able to fit on stall teams by eliminating some of the strongest stallbreakers and wallbreakers in the metagame, like Heatran and Choice Band Tyranitar. Other Arena Trap users were never seriously considered in PRO. When the mechanics of the game transitioned from being Gen 6-based to being Gen-7 based, Dugtrio’s Base ATK went from 80 to 100. This prompted many players to request its ban. Arena Trap was deemed uncompetitive and was consequently banned in April 2018. Baby XD001. Baby XD001 was the first unofficial Pokémon added to PRO. Inspired by Shadow Lugia, codenamed XD001, it had an unusual dual typing: Shadow / Flying. The Shadow type offensively allowed it to inflict STAB-less super effective damage to every other type except itself. Furthermore, all moves besides Shadow-type ones dealt neutral damage to it, thus virtually rendering it a pure Flying type from a strictly defensive perspective. Baby XD001’s base stats were as follows: 20 ATK, 105 DEF, 100 SPD, 55 SPATK, 110 SPDEF, and 70 HP. As far as the prospect of an unofficial Pokémon with a new, unfamiliar typing goes, the PvP Council and the polled community were both split. Therefore, Baby XD001 remained banned. This happened in October 2021. Baton Pass. Baton Pass referred to more than just a move; it represented a playstyle centered on passing accumulated boosts to Pokémon capable of taking advantage of them to sweep the opposition. This behavior was limited by the Baton Pass clause, which stated that teams could only carry a single Baton Pass user and that said user could not simultaneously boost its Speed and other stats. This effectively resulted in Speed Boost Scolipede becoming the main Baton Passer on Baton Pass teams. Speed abusers included Pokémon such as Manaphy and Togekiss. While Substitute was not yet coded at the time, Scolipede adapted and still managed to excel as a Baton Passer. Due to the uncompetitive, matchup-reliant, and luck-based nature of Baton Pass teams, the Staff team then decided, in April 2020, to revoke the Baton Pass clause and ban the move as a whole instead. This was initially announced as a test period, but the change, most likely deemed positive, remained in effect. Battle Bond Greninja. Battle Bond Greninja was released during the 2020 Halloween event and was only allowed for the PvP season of October 2020. The fastest Megas were still unreleased and Ash-Greninja ended up outpacing the entire viable metagame. Offensive and defensive countermeasures were insufficient, with some players resorting to gimmicky checks, like Poliwrath, or exploitable ones, like Chansey, even on offense. After activating Battle Bond, it even had access to one of the most powerful priority moves in the game in Water Shuriken. Overall, Ash-Greninja made steady progress throughout every match and promoted passive (counter)play, which facilitated laying down Spikes on telegraphed switches. It quickly became centralizing to an unhealthy extent and, before its presence could begin to hurt the viability of multiple playstyles, Battle Bond Greninja was banned in November 2020. Blazikenite. Unsurprisingly, Mega Blaziken was never allowed in Ranked PvP. Its Fire / Fighting coverage was bolstered by two powerful STAB moves in Flare Blitz and High Jump Kick. Its Ability, Speed Boost, perfectly complemented its offensive stats, allowing it to fulfill the dual role of a wallbreaker and a sweeper. Mega Blaziken had a good match-up against offensive and defensive teams, while totally dismantling balanced builds in the process. The list of Pokémon able to check it reliably was also too limited. The PvP Council almost unanimously agreed that it would put an unbearable strain on the teambuilder, would require futile overpreparation, would generate an unhealthy amount of unstoppable sweeps, and would hurt the growth of several playstyles in an ever-evolving metagame that had just undergone massive changes, including the release of the second wave of Megas. Blazikenite was swiftly banned in November 2020. Darkrai. Darkrai was on a list of pre-banned Pokémon before its release. Dark Void’s accuracy used to be 80% before dropping to 50% in the transition of PRO from Gen 6 mechanics to Gen 7 ones, thus making the move a low-risk, high-reward prospect that would have complemented the Ability Bad Dreams perfectly. Darkrai also had access to Nasty Plot, a move that would have allowed it to muscle past special walls with ease. Boasting high power and one of the best Speed tiers in the metagame (at the time), Darkrai would have undoubtedly terrorized the PvP scene with just a couple of damaging moves. Genesect. In July 2017, the pre-banned Genesect made its PRO debut with an Ability that worked in reverse. Players who met certain requirements were then asked to vote on Genesect – alongside Gothitelle and Blaziken – to gauge whether there would be sufficient support to test it. Unfortunately, the majority opposed this testing phase and Genesect has remained banned ever since. Aside from its power and typing, it could generate momentum in an unprecedented manner and make progress no matter what. Its versatility and unpredictability were also deemed outstanding. Indeed, Genesect boasted a wide array of viable items, moves, and sets. As a result, it was known for having almost no safe switch-ins. Gengarite. Gengarite, released during the 2020 Halloween event, was instantly banned due to Mega Gengar possessing the already banned Ability Shadow Tag. Usually at its best against defensive and, to a lesser degree, balanced teams, Shadow Tag Mega Gengar would be able to target and remove specific threats with extreme ease, thus paving the way for an easy victory. Its stats, power, and utility would allow it to excel at performing multiple roles at once. Had Shadow Tag somehow not been banned, Mega Gengar would have still almost certainly been banned on the spot due to the low-risk, (almost) guaranteed-reward nature of its kit. Gengarite was banned in October 2020. OHKO moves. The one-hit KO clause, implemented in July 2016, effectively banned the moves Fissure, Guillotine, Horn Drill, and Sheer Cold from Ranked PvP. Despite their low accuracy, these moves could drastically change the course of a match by potentially devaluing the importance of skill and rewarding the luckiest player instead of the most skillful one. Therefore, these specific high-risk, high-reward gimmicks were quickly ejected from a then primitive PvP environment striving for fairness and competitiveness. Lucarionite. Lucarionite was unanimously banned by the PvP Council in January 2022 as soon as its release became public knowledge. Aside from being an offensive powerhouse with limited, situational checks and almost no guaranteed switch-ins, Mega Lucario is notable for its unpredictability and versatility, which allow it to run physically and specially offensive sets. Furthermore, its good Speed tier of 112 and its access to Adaptability, boosting moves in Swords Dance and Nasty Plot, as well as priority moves in Bullet Punch, Extreme Speed, and Vacuum Wave, make it incredibly difficult to stop or revenge kill. Mega Lucario also possesses a wide movepool. Thus, figuring out the (physical or special) nature of its set would not suffice as its movepool can still remain undiscovered due to the number of viable moves that it is susceptible of carrying. Because of all the aforementioned factors, Lucarionite was deemed ban-worthy. Lunala and Solgaleo. Released in February 2021, Lunala and Solgaleo boast an impressive BST of 680. Defensively speaking, Lunala’s typing might be considered underwhelming, but the Pokémon’s various assets outweigh its rare drawbacks. Its bulk is impressive, its Ability is outstanding, and its diverse movepool would allow it to fulfill too many roles far better than anything else would. As for Solgaleo, aside from a passable Ability, it benefits from a good typing, a varied movepool, great defenses, and limited but reliable recovery. Offensively, its coverage is further boosted by the usability of its mixed offensive stats. Overall, both Lunala and Solgaleo were unsurprisingly deemed too powerful for Ranked PvP. Mawilite. When Mega Mawile was released, many thought its low Speed would keep it in check. However, this offensive behemoth turned out to be incredibly difficult to prepare for in a sufficient manner. It only had a handful of checks and counters, some of which served little to no purpose outside of handling Mega Mawile and weakened the team’s overall match-up against other threats. Due to its toolkit, which includes an amazing Fairy / Steel typing, useful pre-Mega Evolution Abilities, and the move Sucker Punch, Mega Mawile was able to bypass its low Speed and perform well against all major playstyles. There was also a discrepancy between the low cost of running Mega Mawile and the ensuing high rewards. Mawilite was banned in April 2021. Moves with a chance to reduce accuracy or raise evasion. Moves that continually increase the user’s evasion, like Double Team and Minimize, are banned due to their inherently uncompetitive nature. Likewise, those that decrease the target’s accuracy, such as Flash and Kinesis, are banned. Moreover, Acupressure, which raises a random stat by two stages, can coincidentally increase evasion and is banned as well. Protean Greninja. Protean Greninja was allowed from 2018 to 2021. There was some opposition to its release, but it fizzled out once it was out. Players had an easier time than expected handling it in PvP. However, as time went on, many realized the full potential of Protean Greninja and, ultimately, its Spikes / Hydro Pump / Ice Beam / Hidden Power Grass set pushed it over the top. Protean Greninja was able to control the hazard game extremely well and had almost no guaranteed offensive or defensive switch-ins, thanks to its Ability and its vast movepool. Protean Greninja also hindered the development of certain playstyles and archetypes. It was banned in April 2021. Sablenite. Stall is not the most popular playstyle. It is then unsurprising that the addition of a new tool to stall teams was met with backlash. This new tool, Mega Sableye, was a godsend to those teams. It allowed them to seize control of the hazard game to an unprecedented degree that made facing them a daunting task. Thanks to Magic Bounce and its overall toolkit, Mega Sableye was able to remove several ways of crippling Stall and defensive teams in general. Some even argued that it promoted unhealthy match-up reliance and centralization in terms of teambuilding and metagame development. Many deemed that Mega Sableye, one of the best Pokémon used on Stall, and Mega Mawile, one of the best offensive countermeasures to Stall teams, should be packaged together. Sablenite was banned in April 2021. Salamencite. The Staff team instantly banned Salamencite. Mega Salamence boasts incredible stats, which include a remarkable combination of power and Speed, as well as an offensively oriented Ability in Aerilate. Only gimmicky or niche Pokémon, like Eviolite Porygon-2 and Cresselia, can safely switch into it, which highlights the unhealthy and centralizing effects of its presence on the teambuilder and the metagame. Mega Salamence also possesses impressive physical bulk, further complemented by the possibility of running Intimidate as the pre-Mega Ability. Its wide offensive movepool allows it to pick its own checks and it even has access to highly valuable utility moves like Roost and Substitute, which respectively give it more longevity and allow it to bypass status. Salamencite was predictably banned in February 2021, shortly following its release. Shadow Tag. In March 2017, the Staff team organized a 3-week voting period on Shadow Tag. Gothitelle was the main culprit, while other Shadow Tag users were potential casualties that most players did not mind back then. The anti-ban side primarily cited the prevalence of Dark types, Gothitelle’s poor match-up against offensive teams, its inability to set up against relevant Pokémon, its proneness to common stallbreakers like Togekiss, and its much-appreciated ability to keep Stall teams in check. The pro-ban side focused on the lack of team preview (at the time), the removal of the fundamental switch mechanic, the uncompetitive and low-risk, high-reward nature of Shadow Tag, the absence of Pursuit from the game, and Gothitelle’s ability to enable certain threats by removing their main checks. Shadow Tag was banned with a 65% supermajority in April 2017. Shaymin-Sky. While Shaymin was initially banned due to a bug that allowed it to obtain illegal moves like TMs Flamethrower and Ice Beam, it was later unbanned. Shaymin-Sky, on the other hand, has remained banned ever since its first and only ban. Shaymin-Sky boasts high Speed, good Special Attack, and respectable bulk. It also possesses the Ability Serene Grace, which works perfectly with Air Slash and Seed Flare, turning the latter into a 120-BP Grass-type move with an 80% chance to lower the target’s Special Defense by two stages. Shaymin-Sky can then proceed to dispose of the sturdiest special walls. Furthermore, this Pokémon has access to various utility moves, like Substitute, Leech Seed, and Healing Wish. Shaymin-Sky was banned in April 2019. Sheer Force Landorus-Incarnate. Sheer Force Landorus-Incarnate is famed for only having two counters: Cresselia and Mega Latias. The latter was not even released when Landorus-I was roaming free in Ranked PvP. Thanks to an amazing Ability in Sheer Force, which grants it a recoil-free Life Orb boost, as well as its varied movepool, Landorus-I had both versatility and unpredictability. It was even able to choose whether to better its match-up against defensive teams with Calm Mind or improve the one against offensive builds with Rock Polish. Moreover, because Sheer Force Landorus-I had low usage, players had to decide whether to account for it at the risk of not encountering any or forego preparing for it altogether at the risk of running into one and suffering certain defeat. Sheer Force Landorus-I was, at first, only banned from PRO Ladder Tours; however, it was also banned from Ranked PvP in August 2020. Some illegal combinations, like Psywave Natural Cure/Serene Grace Chansey/Blissey or Curse Technician/Swarm Scizor. While the latter was solely enforced by the Staff team in August 2020, the community still had a say in previous illegal combinations that were banned, including Soft-Boiled Unaware Clefable in September 2017. Speed Boost Blaziken. When PRO’s mechanics shifted from being Gen 6-based to being Gen 7-based, Talonflame’s Gale Wings was effectively nerfed. This once popular Pokémon was no longer highly viable and, as a result, players realized that they had just lost one of the very few tools to keep Speed Boost Blaziken in check. Shortly thereafter, Blaziken was banned in April 2018, as it had become exceedingly hard to revenge kill or prevent from sweeping due to the shakiness of answers like Slowbro and Azumarill. Blaze Blaziken was unbanned in August 2018 thanks to the addition of a clear Speed Boost message that allowed differentiating between Speed Boost Blaziken and Blaze Blaziken. Swagger. The Swagger Clause was added to Ranked PvP in November 2016. SwagPlay teams were extremely uncompetitive and consisted of running Prankster Pokémon able to utilize the move Swagger, typically in conjunction with Thunder Wave and Foul Play. While this strategy never became popular in PRO, due to how quickly the Swagger Clause was borrowed from Smogon, some players still tried to experiment with similar tactics, including Prankster Confuse Ray Sableye, which were far less successful, consistent, and uncompetitive than SwagPlay teams. Please avoid including the following Pokémon in your comments and suggestions: Falinks, Skwovet, and Wooloo. Zacian and Zamazenta. Balance matters aside, these no longer obtainable Gen 8 Pokémon were released in 2021 with the intent of keeping them banned from Ranked PvP for the foreseeable future. Therefore, discussing them now would be pointless. Please make sure to use the following template to discuss any of the aforementioned items. Template: Example of a good submission: Discussed item: Protean Greninja. Course of action: Retesting. Justification: Protean Greninja deserves another shot. Offensive teams can handle it relatively well thanks to priority users and steadily or increasingly common Pokemon like Mega Scizor, Mega Manectric, Mega Alakazam, and even Keldeo and Scarf Lando. Stall is able to deal with Protean Greninja better than most playstyles, even though Spikes can make things tricky. Finally, while balanced teams might still struggle a bit against Protean Greninja, Pokemon like Ferrothorn and Rotom-W are among the most common ones in the metagame. If some players can afford to run HP Grass to beat Defog Rotom-W, you can immediately expect Spikes and Ice Beam, which immediately makes Protean Greninja easier to check. Moreover, many Pokemon that Greninja beats hard, like Volca, Exca, and Gliscor, have been seeing less and less usage, thus rendering Protean Gren less efficient than it used to be. Weavile is still common and can Pursuit trap Greninja to remove it from the game. Overall, 2/3 major playstyles can deal with Protean Greninja decently well. This is why I believe it should at least be considered for a retest. Example of a bad submission: Please unban Gren. It’s frail and has a lot of counters in the metagame like Chansey and Ferrothorn on every team. It also dies easily to Mach Punch and Bullet Punch. Now we have Lopunny, Manectric and Alakazam to outspeed it too, so it shouldn’t be a problem. Main sources: [Un]Banning Dugtrio & Wobbuffet An unhealthy Battle Bond: The Ash-Greninja case Arena Trap. Yes or No. Ban Blaziken Explaining the recent bans of Greninja, Mawilite, and Sablenite and the unbanning of Mega Metagross Genesect, Gothitelle and Blaziken testing phase PvP Feedback – Baton Pass PvP Feedback – Landorus Ranked PvP Rules. Shadow Tag Voting Softboiled and Unaware ability combined – Allow or Ban from ranked PvP? Time to unban normal ability Blaze Blaziken [Edit: Blaze Blaziken is unbanned | H.A Blaziken stays banned]
  10. I would be in favor of an UU queue replacing OU every 3 months. However, we must address and resolve several practical issues before we can effectively implement UU. Usage and preemptive action: We already know that we will prevent Pokémon with more than 4.52% usage from being allowed in UU. However, we now must decide the months to take into account. If the rotation occurs every 3 months, will we consider all three or will we instead only account for the last month? This is important because UU might begin as soon as OU ends, thus leaving the PvP Council with virtually no time to decide whether to quickban something or not. For example, if an otherwise overpowered Pokémon with over 4.52% usage previously is suddenly UU by usage, we should be able to ban it. Alternatively, the PvP Council can preemptively work on a list of Pokémon that deserve a quick ban regardless of their current usage. We should be able to revisit said list in the future if necessary, as the metagame will continue to evolve and some Pokémon may become more or less bearable with time. Borderline Pokémon: Aside from the problem of Pokémon worthy of a preemptive ban, there also is the issue of more borderline, more contentious Pokémon. Those would typically warrant additional time and testing before the PvP Council could effectively reach a decision. In this case, as we would only have a single month on our hands, we might have to act differently. Should we then quickban those Pokémon or run the risk of letting them roam free? I find this to be a dilemma because both options come with drawbacks. Major tier shifts and usage changes: Likewise, if some Pokémon end up rising from UU to OU, some UU Pokémon may end up becoming much harder to deal with, perhaps even to the point of warranting a ban. I realize that some players dislike defensive Pokémon, but each balanced and healthy metagame has its fair share of those. Without them, some offensive Pokémon will become too strong. The same applies for a metagame where defensive Pokémon are too potent. If all the aforementioned issues seem like a lot to handle, we can ultimately decide to let UU turn into a chaotic, disorganized tier. I would like to keep it competitive, if possible. There are probably going to be UU tours, like the PRO Ladder Tour, so we should be careful with the way that we manage this tier. Should we just work on a list of UU Pokémon to ensure that the metagame can be somewhat healthy before its release? In this case, we would have to drop the 4.52% usage requirement. I do not have any definitive solutions to these problems, but I feel like they deserve further attention and discussion. Balancing issues: If UU is only available once every 3 or 4 months, it becomes nearly impossible to balance out the tier consistently. At best, the PvP Council can vote to quickban obvious culprits, but contentious ones will divide players, as well as the Council itself. Future changes: Moreover, the UU metagame will undergo major shifts and changes in the future, specifically with the introduction of Z-Moves and, later, more Gen 7 Pokémon that happen to be viable in the tier. Pokémon with a Mega Evolution: We will most likely need to know the usage percentages of the regular versions of Pokémon that have a Mega Evolution. It is hard to tell whether a Pokémon like Scizor would be OU by usage on its own or not. If there is an accurate way to distinguish between the usage stats of the regular Pokémon and those of their Mega Evolutions, this should not be a problem. Otherwise, Pokémon like Charizard will be unusable in UU. This can also be one of PRO’s many specificities. We do not have to follow Smogon or any other platform. We can establish our own UU rules if needed, as long as the Developers agree with doing so, of course! Two servers, two metagames? Another thing worth mentioning is that we have two servers with slightly different OU metagames. This may seem minor at first, but it will matter when it comes to UU, as we will effectively end up with two different UU metagames, unless we choose to opt for unique cross-server usage, which would not be consistent with the way we have been handling OU so far. With two OU metagames evolving simultaneously yet individually, Pokémon usage will be different no matter what. Consequently, the list of Pokémon allowed in UU will differ from one server to the other. This also means that the bans will be distinct as well, unless we choose a homogeneous tiering approach that allows us to ban the same Pokémon on both servers. Unfortunately, since the metagames would technically be different, it would be possible for a Pokémon deemed ban-worthy on one server to be tolerable on the other due to the presence of additional countermeasures unavailable on the server where said Pokémon would be too strong (e.g., OU by usage). Therefore, should we combine the OU usage stats of both servers or not? If so, should we do this over 1, 2 or 3 months? As you can tell, we should take into account many factors and variables to ensure the successful implementation of UU. The myth of UU diversity: I would also like to emphasize that, while UU will bring some diversity (in comparison to OU), it will not be a metagame where every single Pokémon is viable. Yes, of course, players can use whatever they want and, while this is already the case in OU, it will likely be less punishing in UU in most cases. UU will have its own viability rankings – if not concretely posted on the forums, then at least virtually. Some Pokémon will be much stronger than the rest and will dominate the usage charts. I am only putting extra emphasis on this because I know that some users expect UU to be a place where all non-OU Pokémon can finally thrive. That will not be the case, even if the metagame is relatively unbalanced at first. Some picks will always be more viable than most. This does not mean that you cannot use your favorite Pokémon; it just means that you will eventually start running into the same Pokémon, perhaps even the same teams and strategies. You can promote diversity on your own by trying out different things if you wish. However, please do not expect UU to be a disorganized tier, unless we willingly choose to let it be one. Please feel free to reply to any part(s) of my post. I am interested in reading everyone’s thoughts and opinions. I am sure that we can come up with satisfactory solutions to the aforementioned issues, too.
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