Manaphy in ranked PVP

[Ta7esh]

In my opinion that yes Rain teams are being over used lately and its a bit of frustrating since it has 0 strategy except for setting the weather and sweeping.

 

Yes you can counter it but it will be definitely be annoying however, Manaphy isnt that of a deal i always take it with gyarados draining its hp to half or a bit more and out-speeding it with Mamo earthquake

[Baganha]

In my opinion that yes Rain teams are being over used lately and its a bit of frustrating since it has 0 strategy except for setting the weather and sweeping.

 

Yes you can counter it but it will be definitely be annoying however, Manaphy isnt that of a deal i always take it with gyarados draining its hp to half or a bit more and out-speeding it with Mamo earthquake

 

Im not sure if youre saying that manaphy isnt broken or simply explaining how you deal with it but in case its the first, then im sorry but that argument is completely fallacious, using anecdotes to justify something from only your personal experience and not looking at an objective pov is just wrong, i dont feel like i need to explain why that is.

[Ta7esh]

Im stating that the main problem is with rain not with Manaphy.

[Baganha]

Im stating that the main problem is with rain not with Manaphy.

 

Are you saying that rain is the reason why manaphy is as good as he is, or is rain the one you consider broken?

[Envymeister]

Are you saying that rain is the reason why manaphy is as good as he is, or is rain the one you consider broken?

Dude manaphy isnt a problem inside rain its annoying? yes absolutly, outside not really. U shouldnt ask to ban manaphy, instead ban rain and we gucci, bc rain is just noneskill playstyle.

[Baganha]

Dude manaphy isnt a problem inside rain its annoying? yes absolutly, outside not really. U shouldnt ask to ban manaphy, instead ban rain and we gucci, bc rain is just noneskill playstyle.

 

If it was up to skill, id argue more than half of all playstyles should be considered to be banned, how much skill does it take to use sun? or any HO team for that matter?

 

You say manaphy isnt a problem under rain but i still havent been convinced from that, when there is literally 1 safe counter to it (3 loose counters if you wanna get analytical about it), it should show you how unbelievably broken it is, in fact i even tried to explain to you why rain might be a big problem for you (without manaphy) and you didnt deny those things, maybe you do but you didnt explain to me why that is, on the other hand there is so much manaphy can do outside of rain that you seem to neglect, like before mentioned, screens is a great way for manaphy to take advantage of its high bulk and make it even harder for your opponent to deal with. Any hazard stacking offense would welcome manaphy in all of their teams as a primary wall/stallbreaker for the rest of the team to cleanup. There is a lot manaphy can do outside of rain.

 

If you want rain to be banned thats fine, while you can argue its overcentralising, banning it wouldnt do much for the meta unless a whole lotta of things would go as well. With rain gone, it would only be natural for things like sun and sand to be popular and take over, it would be a slippery slope from then on. Manaphy on the other hand is just a pokemon and not an entire playstyle, it would nerf rain stallbreaking potential, giving more chance for bulkier teams to take place in the meta, bulkier teams whom of which would ease up the pressure and increase the stability and diversity for the meta, it wouldnt be perfect of course, rain would still be very popular obviously, however, unfortunately, there isnt much that can be done about that, there is always gonna be a centralising force in the meta, that in a way keeps it from collapsing even vgc and smogon are guilty of this.

[Ta7esh]

Are you saying that rain is the reason why manaphy is as good as he is, or is rain the one you consider broken?

Exactly in fact I mean both of what youve stated. Manaphy is annoying with rain however the core problem here is " Rain " and it is hard to counter it because it has natural type advantage, gives STAB to one of the most versatile typings, and has some of the best ability benefits (Hydration, Swift Swim, Dry Skin) along with a ton of viable pokemon to use it with.

 

While other teams are easier to deal with, Sand ? just use a ground type of the beginning and hit earthquake u can definitely take it off and once he switches to Exca the user can change safely to ferro etc... but with rain there are no real safe switches Kingdra's typing as dragon and water with the move Ice beam it can take down anything other than the other rain pokes that can be used as a backup.

 

Sun team is the easiest just use a heatran or a volcarona you can take down everything easily.

 

Thus Rain team is OP + Manaphy and Tail glow its just an unacceptable.

[Ta7esh]

Rain in all its glory has no contest because:

 

-many abusers (Swift Swim, Rain Dish, Dry Skin, Hydration)

-most abusers are water type, so they get an extra x1.5 to their already STAB water attacks,

-so Swift Swimmers essentially have a +1 to water attacks and +2 to speed in rain

-no miss Thunder and Hurricane

-fire attacks' base power reduced by 50%, making steel, especially 4x fire-weak steels like Ferrothorn and Scizor, excellent teammates

[Baganha]

Exactly in fact I mean both of what youve stated. Manaphy is annoying with rain however the core problem here is " Rain " and it is hard to counter it because it has natural type advantage, gives STAB to one of the most versatile typings, and has some of the best ability benefits (Hydration, Swift Swim, Dry Skin) along with a ton of viable pokemon to use it with.

 

While other teams are easier to deal with, Sand ? just use a ground type of the beginning and hit earthquake u can definitely take it off and once he switches to Exca the user can change safely to ferro etc... but with rain there are no real safe switches Kingdra's typing as dragon and water with the move Ice beam it can take down anything other than the other rain pokes that can be used as a backup.

 

Sun team is the easiest just use a heatran or a volcarona you can take down everything easily.

 

Thus Rain team is OP + Manaphy and Tail glow its just an unacceptable.

 

Youre not being very fair to the other weather's at all, saying just use eq to deal with sand is ridiculous, the same can be said for rain then, just use electric move on pelipper and its all good, also ferro isnt really a switchin to excadrill at all, adamant +2 soft sand eq does 75% min to max def ferro and the best it can do is leash off a power whip or lecch seed + tect, either way hes getting about 60% at best hp off of drill, not countering it at all.

 

How does volcarona deal with sun at all? Volc gets ohkod by entei banded sacred fire and darm's scarf flare blitz, not to mention that heatrani is definitely easy to deal with between these same pokemon's coverage with stomping tantrum and superpower respectively.

 

Kingdra does have safe switchins to it, chansey is probably the best, spdef ferro actually deals with it, unlike excadrill, and even options such as av azu, slowking, mew and mantine are all good examples

Edited February 26, 2019 by Baganha

[Baganha]

Rain in all its glory has no contest because:

 

-many abusers (Swift Swim, Rain Dish, Dry Skin, Hydration)

-most abusers are water type, so they get an extra x1.5 to their already STAB water attacks,

-so Swift Swimmers essentially have a +1 to water attacks and +2 to speed in rain

-no miss Thunder and Hurricane

-fire attacks' base power reduced by 50%, making steel, especially 4x fire-weak steels like Ferrothorn and Scizor, excellent teammates

 

 

You saying rain's secondary effects doesnt really make them more broken, everyone is aware of all of this. Just like sand and sun have it as well. I do agree that rain is the best weather but im not gonna write my opinion again ( you can check out prior convos if you want to see it).