New anti-hack system

[Goedendag]

Hey, first of all, thanks for clicking on this thread.

 

Please note: I'm not banned and never used any sort of hacks, so this thread is not about me.

 

 

Last few months a lot of people get banned for using an unauthorized software, having too many alt accounts etc. All of these charges were made by a anti-hack bot. Sadly, this bot/system doesn't work properly, because people that get banned are often innocent and get banned for nothing. Why would someone who played hundreds or even thousands of hours a game risk his progress only to use a weird software to hack? Of course there are a few people that probably did use a hacking software, but most of them didn't. Friends of mine got banned while they had +/- 1000 hours playing time and spent almost $100... All of this because of a anti-hack system which isn't working properly.

 

There is an option to create an appeal on the forums, but when the banned people try to explain that they aren't banned the staff won't listen and trust the system more than the banned people. The banned people try to proof themselves that they're innocent, but sadly nobody believes them...

 

My suggestion is: get a new anti-hack system and let the appeals be there to let the banned people proof their innocent (also recheck all the current banned people). Otherwise PRO might lose a lot of players.

 

 

I won't close/delete this thread. If you don't see this thread anymore, it means a staff-member removed it.

[Allsmell]

I don't get how you think there is confusion over owning too many accounts.

[Namelesshero27]

If you are banned then you are not innocent. There are no mistaken ban. The appeal forum is something uselss for me, appealing is like saying staff is wrong. Something that should make the punishment even harder. Respect our Leaders and don't cheat, then you will not get banned.

[Allsmell]

If you are banned then you are not innocent. There are no mistaken ban. The appeal forum is something uselss for me, appealing is like saying staff is wrong. Something that should make the punishment even harder. Respect our Leaders and don't cheat, then you will not get banned.

Lots of modding is subjective, appeals are good because they provide a 2nd look at the subjectivity.

Judges hand out longer sentences just before lunch, and just after lunch are the most forgiving.

[Goedendag]

I don't get how you think there is confusion over owning too many accounts.

 

It happened a week ago to like 10 users, all of them were active players and the bot thought all accounts were from the same person, after an appeal all the bans were unbanned. I personally don't know the relation between those accounts.

[Illuvatar]

If you are banned then you are not innocent. There are no mistaken ban. The appeal forum is something uselss for me, appealing is like saying staff is wrong. Something that should make the punishment even harder. Respect our Leaders and don't cheat, then you will not get banned.

 

That seems a little too far imo . EVERY major game company , has messed up with the anti-cheat system , big ban waves that ban innocent people as well , claiming that the Anti-cheat system is flawless is far from truth . No anti cheat system can detect every hack , and not everything that gets detected is a hack .

As far as the appeal system goes , that's not only for people banned for the use of third party software . With that being said I agree with the OP

Edited May 21, 2020 by Illuvatar

[Qeight]

Hey there,

 

I am Qeight, one of the newer Game Masters, before that I was the Moderator Team Lead.

I asked for this thread to be moved into public viewing again as I believe there is value in having our viewpoints stated publicly as well.

The post is a bit of a mix so I'll dissect the points 1 by 1.

 

Last few months a lot of people get banned for using an unauthorized software, having too many alt accounts etc. All of these charges were made by a anti-hack bot. Sadly, this bot/system doesn't work properly, because people that get banned are often innocent and get banned for nothing.

All bans, are manual bans. Automated bans haven't been taking place for quite a long time now ( around 2+ years). You are hitting on two completely different subjects as well.

Unauthorized software is something like botting software, speedhacks, any kind of third party software while having "too many accounts" are simple mistakes that get unbanned in 99/100 cases, the 1 case being someone who yells and insults staff for their ban (even though they haven't read the rules).

 

Why would someone who played hundreds or even thousands of hours a game risk his progress only to use a weird software to hack?

Good question, we don't know. I banned people with 6000 hours and 6 hours for doing the same thing, unfortunately your hours, status, money donated and what not don't matter when banning someone. We have to treat all players equally and fairly, based on the punishment policy.

 

Of course there are a few people that probably did use a hacking software, but most of them didn't. Friends of mine got banned while they had +/- 1000 hours playing time and spent almost $100... All of this because of a anti-hack system which isn't working properly.

Friends often lie, it's the internet, nobody wants to be seen as a cheater. If you can put your hands in a fire for a friend, you will get burned if they swear they didn't cheat.

 

There is an option to create an appeal on the forums, but when the banned people try to explain that they aren't banned the staff won't listen and trust the system more than the banned people. The banned people try to proof themselves that they're innocent, but sadly nobody believes them...

The appeal center is there for honest players, unless you are banned for investigation purposes you are guilty. It's not "innocent until proven guilty", we banned you because we proved that you were guilty through methods we never gonna disclose. We are not disclosing them for obvious reasons.

 

The banned people try to proof themselves that they're innocent, but sadly nobody believes them...

It really depends on the ban itself, all are done manually to ensure there isn't anything wrong with the bans. If you are banned for macro- usage or any 3rd party programs you are guilty by default otherwise you wouldn't have been banned. Mass-account bans are often due to people sharing accounts, it is indeed very hard to distinguish who is who sometimes, if you have 30 accounts use the same device. Mass account bans are 99/100 cases successful and people get unbanned.

 

My suggestion is: get a new anti-hack system and let the appeals be there to let the banned people proof their innocent (also recheck all the current banned people). Otherwise PRO might lose a lot of players.

Here is my take on this, PRO had an automated system during the time Shane was still a Dev. The system flagged you for simply lagging out, creating bans that weren't accurate.

There were a few auto bans like "Auto Ban: S2" was one of the more faulty ones while "Auto Ban: Third Party Software" was 100% accurate. This system was removed a very long time ago and replaced with something way more secure made by Eaty. What exactly gets detected, how detection works is only need-to-know basis within staff as well.

 

At first nobody was getting banned and then people got banned in waves, this of course raised questions about how detection works even within staff. I was by far the loudest voice against it because the story was always the same "I didn't do anything", "I didn't cheat" & so on. I was only a Moderator at the time, not a Game Master who deals with this kind of stuff but I had my doubts and I made my doubts be heard loudly.

However overtime bans slowed down, people were still getting banned for it, the bans were made more severe over time to a permanent ban for users' who cheat. Eaty is very confident in his anti-cheat and we have to trust that. It would be not logical to think that Eaty wants people to be banned for no reason or faulty bans. It goes against everything Eaty is trying with this game. I came to that realization after I left staff for 3 months.

 

It happened a week ago to like 10 users, all of them were active players and the bot thought all accounts were from the same person, after an appeal all the bans were unbanned. I personally don't know the relation between those accounts.

I would correct that, we banned more than 10 users, some of those were detected months ago but weren't banned due to shortage of GMs. This is on us but we are catching up, hence you might see increased numbers of bans.

 

That seems a little too far imo . EVERY major game company , has messed up with the anti-cheat system , big ban waves that ban innocent people as well , claiming that the Anti-cheat system is flawless is far from truth . No anti cheat system can detect every hack , and not everything that gets detected is a hack .

As far as the appeal system goes , that's not only for people banned for the use of third party software . With that being said I agree with the OP

I think you are confusing something, yes anti-cheats can not detect all cheats, that's a fault on the anti-cheat but saying our system is faulty because "people are innocent get banned"? Our system detects known cheat programs to us. The chances that you are detected and innocent equal 0.

 

I won't close/delete this thread. If you don't see this thread anymore, it means a staff-member removed it.

It stays open till people starts insulting staff or yell at each other.

[Illuvatar]

I think you are confusing something, yes anti-cheats can not detect all cheats, that's a fault on the anti-cheat but saying our system is faulty because "people are innocent get banned"? Our system detects known cheat programs to us. The chances that you are detected and innocent equal 0.

I wasn't referring to your anti-cheat , I am talkin about the thousands of games that have repeatedly banned innocent people and then publicly apologized .

I was just trying to prove the guy saying that anti cheats are absolute wrong , not to undermine your anti-cheat or developers

[Qeight]

I wasn't referring to your anti-cheat , I am talkin about the thousands of games that have repeatedly banned innocent people and then publicly apologized .

I was just trying to prove the guy saying that anti cheats are absolute wrong , not to undermine your anti-cheat or developers

Oh, our system aren't detecting random things. e.g Valorants anti-cheat detected and blocked known CPU/GPU softwares from working. Our system is detection known stuff to use in this game. I won't pretend to fully understand how it works, only the Dev would know.

[Sin]

Oh, our system aren't detecting random things. e.g Valorants anti-cheat detected and blocked known CPU/GPU softwares from working. Our system is detection known stuff to use in this game. I won't pretend to fully understand how it works, only the Dev would know.

 

First of all, I will start off by saying that the recent ban wave of many macro users is a very welcome movement.

 

Nevertheless, I'm most concerned about the fact that the GMs are currently still unable to show the evidences to the banned user.

 

In an ideal world, evidence should be provided while ensuring that showing them won't enable potential breaching of the system.

 

I understand that it is not possible to do so atm. I still do hope that Eaty and other staffs would be able to figure out an alternative solution for this. Because currently, it does make me and other players feel unsafe to go for an intensive hunt, afraid of getting banned incorrectly by the new system, and get no chance to appeal properly because no evidence would be shown.

 

I have friends who got banned and admitted they used macro. I also have friend who got banned and swore with his life that he did not macro. It really makes me feel sad to think he might really did not macro and a mistake happened. An evidence being shown would return peace of mind to all parties here.

 

Most specifically, I hope the anti-cheat system does not include something so simple like a staff pms a player, he's afk and do not respond, or don't want to respond, thereby largely influence the probability of him getting identified as a macro user. Many hunters enjoy multi-tasking, so not getting disturbed by random pm is a right they should have. Not answering a pm might cause suspicion, but should not be a deterministic factor in this case.

 

I hope you will be able to shed some lights for us with this, about whether there would be plan to fix the "can't show evidence" issue, and whether the system uses some primitive methods like the "not answering pm" example i just showed to determine a macro user.

 

Thank you in advance. :)

Edited May 21, 2020 by SinLight