An unhealthy Battle Bond: The Ash-Greninja case

[Stavd]

1 hour ago, GlogS said:

I'm interested to know which of Jorogumos points made you come to this conclusion.
My bet is none of them, cause I doubt you've even read it at all. Do feel free to take the wheel and explain how the players of the archetype that is damaged the least are the ones promoting this the most, though. I'm very interested in the line of thought, but I haven't been able to figure out where it originated.

From where I stand, the fact that HO relies on momentum colliding with the fact that Ash-Gren exudes a ridiculous amount of it is a little odd, to put it mildly.
I don't know how you play the game, but I'll go out on a limb and say stall players are less likely to have to sacrifice a Pokémon to Ash-Gren than any other playstyle.

You clearly see i quoted dopxmine post, not jorogumo...jorogumo writes down in detail how ash gren will influence the meta...overcentralization is not enough reason to ban a poke...190, 200, 240 or 264, 307 are some speed limits in pro which were forced in order to deal with some pokes...also the appearance of some pokes forced changes in natures and evs distributions e.g. manaphy turned ferros from relaxed full def to sassy full spdef and made tyranitars hold assault vest and be spdef invested...the fact that i have to go my clefable 190 speed and lose bulk in order to avoid facade means that conk should get banned?...the fact that rain teams made ferro sassy makes manaphy bannable? the fact that my rotom should exceed 219 speed to counter jolly belly drum azu, makes azu bannable?  the fact that my skarmory or ferro should hold shed shell to avoid trapping, and lose rocky helmet benefits, make magne bannable? the game is centralized around pokes that are the major threats at that moment...that changes from time to time ofc...should we banned all pokes that game is build around them? and finally i want a staller to speak the naked truth ''i want bb gren banned cause hazard and rain teams will completely destroy my cores'' and stop distorting reality...i need to say again that i am in favour of banning bb gren for the mere reason that will make rain unstoppable, especially if matched with mega swampert..

Edited October 12, 2020 by stavd

[Glogs]

@stavd
I see you quoting the whole of his post, including the part where he "+1's" the original post.
The reason this is relevant, is because if you had actually read the original post, you'd know that you're pouring your energy in the wrong direction.
I direct you to point 13 of the original post.

Last time I checked, Conkeldurr would've been more of a problem if it reached close to 400 speed. Let me remind you that the base stat of Ash-Greninjas spatk is higher than Conkeldurrs attack base stat.
I understand that we're not disagreeing on whether it should be banned or not, but you thinking the relatively small community of PRO that do play stall are the ones most afraid of this and trying to cover it up behind some other things... When I thought about what I wanted to climb with (if at all with Ash-Greninja on the loose)  this month, the only reasonable thing to move towards was stall. I'd be putting myself unnecessarily much at a disadvantage by choosing any other archetype.

Why is it you think stall players are distorting reality? Hazard teams would've been a problem prior to this, if they were built poorly.
The truth is, the perfect stall team doesn't exist, just like the perfect team doesn't exist. There'll always be a weakness that can be exploited, but I disagree heavily with agenda you're trying to push.

[Darksun20]

Normally I'd say give time for the meta to settle as Ash-Greninja has only just been released but it is quite clear this mon never should have been released without the Gen 7 mons, it is too much to handle without the usual checks/counters it is supposed to have.

 

However, I don't see a reason not to un-ban it once the Gen 7 dex is fully released, including Magearna and the Tapus.

Edited October 13, 2020 by Darksun20

[Khaihoan2662004]

-1

I completely disagree with u .

Edited October 13, 2020 by khaihoan2662004

[Yuriko91]

+1 gg

[Cycloenn]

+1 i think it should go but maybe come back with more mons later

[Nab]

On 10/12/2020 at 8:36 PM, Ckilepapa said:

Yeah good idea, let's ban him with Char X, mega-mauwile, mega-lopunny and every tapu. 

 

Kinda funny how yu'all barking when you need to ban this guy but when we needed to ban aegislash where were u guys ?

i truly love this meta where stall is dominating, totally don't want to see any change, keep it up guys ! love ya

 

PS : let's not forget to not ban toxapex when it comes out, it can't ohko anyone right ? must be fine to add him

 

Someone clearly doesn't understand the point of the post. Ash Greninja has high stats with no drawback (rip Archeops) and has a Priority move that is strong enough to 2(?)OHKO its counters. Furthermore, Charizard X, Mega Mawile, Mega Lopunny aNd eVeRy tApU are not even close to being as broken as Ash Greninja is. Ash Greninja needs ONE kill to suddenly boast a whopping 399 speed stat which outspeeds the 'entire (viable) metagame" (Yes I read Joro's post, unlike you) and 405 Special attack (and 350 attack for those memers :3) Charizard X requires a Dragon Dance boost which is effectively a turn of not doing anything (which is easy to outplay, let's be honest, it is already seen with Dragonite). Mega Mawile requires Swords dance and is slow, even with Sucker Punch, it is not STAB and is not extremely reliable (Low PP, Requires Opponent to use an attack). Mega Lopunny lacks a slot to put in a much needed priority move, easily loses to rocky helmet and residual chip damage while being walled because of it's mediocre attack stat (FOR A MEGA POKEMON WHOSE MAIN JOB IS TO HIT HARD). Tapus are Legendaries and are not even as Meta-Defining as Ash Greninja, by that logic we should ban all legendaries because you don't know how to pvp.

https://pokemonrevolution.net/forum/topic/158532-ban-aegislash-from-pvp/?tab=comments#comment-878146

In case you are not going to find the thread yourself, thread was not made by the smartest of people but this is a pro ban for Aegislash thread. 

Toxapex has alot of thing that kills it, same as any other wall (Amoonguss, Mega Venusaur, Chansey, Clefable) You probably don't know about type effectiveness so I linked the Smogon pages for you. 

https://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/types/poison/

https://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/types/water/

Smogon pages of what Toxapex are weak against. 

https://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/toxapex/

To read up more on Toxapex 

It is just any other wall (maybe a little more annoying to deal with) If it bothers you so much that you have to complain about H.O and Stall on a Ash Greninja ban thread when it has nothing to do with the thread itself then don't bother coming here and slurring your sub 100 rating nonsense.

Edited October 14, 2020 by ChiiCe242
Fixed some mistakes

[Dukmak]

+1 totally agree with this Thread , simply everyone has to add an anti to ash greninja now ,which will always be on high pressure by other pokes in team + we lack alot of checks to it ( people say ferro or chansey while both can be checked still 2ohko or flinch could end the day )
so it changes entirely whole strategies without enough checks to it available still in current meta 

[Qqq]

hi can translate spanish???english is new !! ! hablas espanol , uhh ola.

[Lumizen]

Novus, this is great! You have a lot of skills and I agree with your post. So I think Ash-Greninja should be banned, so +1.