Public Test: Exp. Rework

[Erasmoreisinho]

gin 5

[Olker]

Before and after 4th Johto Gym (Ecruteak). BCC looks cool, but I was kind of disappointed I couldn't enter. xD

 

[Jpasrv]

before viridian gym --

 gyaradose=lvl65,charizard=lvl51,jumpluff=lvl50,magnemite=lvl17,geodude=lvl22,snorlax=lvl41

 

after viridian gym^^

[Karyoplasma]

Spoiler

Gym 1 - Pewter City

 

Spoiler

before:

after:

 

Gym 2 - Cerulean City

Spoiler

before:

after:

 

Gym 3 - Vermilion City:

Spoiler

before:

after:

 

 

 

Gym 4 - Celadon City

Spoiler

before:

after:

 

 

Gym 5 - Fuchsia City:

Spoiler

before:

after:

 

Note: Had EXP Share on Wartortle during the gym because I was worried about Blaine.

 

Gym 6 - Saffron City:

Spoiler

before:

after:

 

 

Gym 7 - Cinnabar Island:

Spoiler

before:

after:

 

Gym 8 - Viridian City:

Spoiler

before:

after:

 

Note: Butterfree got solo EXP for killing Mewtwo, no EXP Share

 

After Elite 4:

Spoiler

 

Note: I didn't take a screenshot before entering because I surrender-farmed the Elite 4 because that was the only ok source of EXP.

 

 

What I expected and how I tried to gauge the change:

 

First off, I'm somewhat familiar with the Kanto story. I never provided a story service, but also never used one and played through the story on 2 alts on both servers and on 1 alt on Silver only, totaling 5 playthroughs.

I knew that the best way to speed through the story always has been to powerlevel a single mon to overlevel and easily win fights. Therefore it was advised to deny evolution for as long as possible to abuse that sweet, sweet faster growth rate. I was under the impression, the EXP rework took aim into changing that and make it more viable to level more than just a single, first form evolution team member. I knew about the EXP potion quest in Viridian City before Brock, but I deliberately forwent getting it, since I wanted to experience the rework as a new player would.

 

Rundown of my story playthrough:

It started off really well and pleasant. Catch EXP meant that I didn't have to switch train and could get new team members up to speed without having to switch train them. I caught a lot of pokemon to decide which I would use during story and settled on what I thought would work well as a team. I spent a pretty long time in Viridian Forest and Route 22 because I got a bold sync Natu and was farming for a nice story Budew or Oddish. I settled for Budew in the end because of better stats, unknowing that happiness was bugged which meant evolving it would be a pain.

The experience gained in the early routes and gyms felt really good and I was making steady progress until the SS Anne, where the curve flattened a bit for the first time. 

After getting Cut, I felt already behind but didn't want to grind more so I defeated Surge and went through Rock Tunnel. I battled all optional trainers on Routes 8, 9 and 10 and Rock Tunnel on my way to Celadon but I was still not getting anywhere. The EXP share just did not help, even more so, I found it to hold me back. At this point, my team was basically reduced to just Butterfree (Quiver Dance, Bug Buzz) and Sandslash (Bulky, good synergy by absorbing electric attacks for my butterfly). The Rocket hideout and Erika were no problem and I went onto Fuchsia, fighting every trainer in my way because I was very worried about Jasmine.

Despite fighting everyone, I was still very underleveled for the Fuchsia gym. As an example how badly behind I was: I set up to +4 with Sword Dance on Sandslash (even with Brave nature) and almost didn't 2-shot Jasmine's Ariados. I couldn't go to +6 because Ariados' Pin Missile literally destroyed my 110 base defense mon because I was so far behind.

After this, I just totally abandoned my plan of actually building a functional team and surfed for an ok Magikarp in Viridian City. After I found one, I EV-trained it with the EXP share (the most useful this thing has been during my test) and leveled it to 45 on the Bike Road. After doing that, the rest of the story was a complete joke. It was just: setup DD and sweep and if that was not possible, it was: lead with Magneton and paralyze/LightScreen/Flash and then setup DD and sweep. If you check the playtime in the screenshots, you can see that it took me 5.5 hours between Fuchsia and Saffron and then 45 minutes for the rest of the badges. That's how much easier it was when abandoning teambuilding and just dancing in front of everyone.

Funny (or rather sad) side note here: Against Mewtwo, I got too greedy and died on my Gyara so my old team of Sandslash (what a beast) and Butterfree (you go girl) managed to be ridiculously lucky and get enough paralysis procs so they could finish the fight. Butterfree received solo XP from killing a legendary pokemon that was at least 15 to 20 levels higher and did not receive enough XP for a single level. This is not ok and too little. This is why you fall behind and have to abandon everyone but a setup sweeper.

I trained on the Elite 4 for a bit until Gyarados was comfortably getting to Lance without me doing any thinking and then I decided to finish the region. Gyara was lvl 77 at the end, I started the first E4 run at around lvl60 and did not count how many times I farmed them, but it was around 2 hours. All the E4 members combined leveled Gyarados from 76 to 77 on the final run.

 

There is absolutely no point of fighting wild pokemon. If you happen to get a fully evolved wild spawn that is not super low level, go ahead and kill it, else it's absolutely not worth it. Not even on Victory Road which is a big bummer.

 

Thoughts on the reworked EXP curve:

Starting from the mid 40s, it takes ages to level up, everything above level 60 is hell. Wild EXP is too low, regular trainer EXP is too low, gym leader and gym trainer EXP is way too low. I would even say that E4 EXP is too low, it's just the least rotten, the least sucky way to level on the test server. Grinding experience on Victory Road to level 90 would take literal days. I do not see how this is going to work out at all, sorry. You could double the XP gained in VicRoad and it would still be too low, so I cannot really give good advice other than to completely rethink the test system again, it's just not fun.

 

Thoughts on the EXP share:

I'm an old fart, I grew up on Gen1 and Gen2 games and found the EXP Share in these games useless as a kid. I still think it's rather niche, but it does provide a way to get your mon to learn an attacking move while also getting EVs which is nice and saves you at least a bit of a headache. But as soon as your pokemon is able to fight itself, throw the EXP share in the bin, it is just holding you back.

 

 

I am tentatively planning to go through Johto as well, but I fear that it will just be the same old, same old aka fishing up a karp in Violet and then dancing on everyone. If that is the case, I probably won't finish the Johto story since I really hoped for more story teambuilding options, not less.

Edited September 21, 2022 by Karyoplasma

[Olker]

Before and after Cianwood (5th Gym, Johto), I think xp gain is starting to slow down. (Yes, even considering my GYarados is overleveled.)

 

[Olker]

Before and after Olivine Gym (6th, Johto)

I didn't battle anything iirc between gym 5 and 6, so:

 

[Paprikaflow]

Johto

 

Gyms

Spoiler

Violet Gym

Spoiler

after:  I am terribly sorry I forgot to take a screen before, but I did not gain a level in that gym.

 

Azalea Gym

Spoiler

 

 

Goldenrod Gym

Spoiler

  

 

Ecruteak Gym

Spoiler

 

 

Cianwood Gym

Spoiler

 

 

Olivine Gym

Spoiler

 

 

Mahagony Gym

Spoiler

 

 

Blackthorn Gym

Spoiler

  

 

After I fought the trainers in the gym I leveled for one more level outside of the gym before I returned to finish the gym leader

 

 

 

Elite 4

Spoiler

 

 

Feedback:

The Johto region is general is very nice to play. You can progress nice and don't feel to many to difficult obsticles. But the longer I played the more difficult it got. The reason is imo the extrem difficulty to gain exp. outsite of trainer battles. Besides playing a cheesy strategy the best chance to play well in Johto is to overlevel one pokemon. 

 

In the early states everything went smoothe, especially since you can bring items and tms from kanto. This feature I do like about PRO and the gameplay. It makes the beginning a little fast and it less necessarry to kill ratatas for the first 30 mins, which is not the most pleasent thing to do. 

 

The transition into the mid game stages are also still very nice, eventhough it gets hard to play the game with just one mon, while trying to exp.-share another. 
There is a general tention between high level trainer and very low level wild pokemons. The wild pokemons are very useless when you want to boost your main pokemon a little more, so the story works smoother. I would like to see it, if training in the grass would be more viable. I believe the first real spot to train the mons is in blackthorn, which is a little late.

 

My other issue with the kanto region with the badge in olivine. The gym is extremly hard, if you do not have played with certain mons. Here I would love to see the possibility to train more and more efficient to elevate my team to the right level, or a nerf of the arena. 

 

The exp.-share remains are very nice and usefull tool. The way it works appears to be just right. In my oppinion and very usefull adition to the game. 

 

 

Edited September 22, 2022 by Paprikaflow

[Olker]

7th Gym Johto, forgot to take screenshot of before the gym, but there was no change, other than gyarados being lvl 65.

 

[Pisforpenguin]

Kanto

Spoiler

Pewter:

 

Cerulean:

Vermillion:

 

Celadon:

Fuchsia:

Saffron:

Cinnabar:

viridian:

 

Feedback:

 

The exp rework makes the early game much more manageable ie: evolving mons and being able to play the story in a way that more represents a story. No longer do you have to worry about keeping your mons as 1st stage due to being out leveled later on in the story. The exp share is nice it allowed me to train up the growlithe i got in viridian maze to prep for Erika which was the only early gym i would not have a favorable matchup with my starter.  I was also able to pick up a magikarp after vermillion by fishing in the city which i started to prep to be the main mon i would use to complete the story. After erika my growlithe/arcanine usage fell off drastically as i no longer would have much use for it(other than intimidate support) for the rest of the story. After saffron i sparsely used the exp share usage to level gyarados more effectively. The only time i really ran into a roadblock was the viridian gym and fighting mewtwo. After finishing cinnabar, i traveled to power plant to pick up a sturdy mag to help my gyarados set up with twave and light screen support. I also took a detour to go back and fight the rest of the trainers around cinnabar on both the pallet town side and seafoam islands side. I also went back and cleared the trainers on cycling road which i had previously skipped to farm some xp for my gyarados. Later on the xp gains feel a bit slower but still manageable. Overall i enjoyed the addition of the exp share it made the game much more manageable being able to level pokes simultaneously to prep for future gyms to avoid getting stuck later in the story. The catch xp was also an interesting feature i didnt use this much but can see how this would be a nice feature for newer players on a playthrough not having to decide between catching a new mon or farming more xp. One issue i had was that i was completely poor going into e4 after purchasing healing items i had only 500 pokedollars remaining which would have possibly lead to issues if i chose to continue into a new region. I wish i had more time for testing so i could have got more experience testing the other regions however i have been very limited on time over this last week. 

Edited September 26, 2022 by Pisforpenguin

[Olker]

Johto 8th Gym Before and After