List of Pokemon not to be used in ranked battle

[Acello]

205376 Here the solution:

For staff please just make ORB & CHOICE item works, it will solve the stall problem, and then you can ban shadowtag ability from ladder.

Everyone will be happy, no more time will be wasted for discussing the same thing over and over again. So, we can move on.

That is the main purpose of this thread right?

I agree with Futz.

Those items will definitely prevent people from using excessive amount of stall Pokemons. That being said, PVP will be more enjoyable without tanks such as Slowbro and etc.

[Azeo]

193274 not to be bad or aggressive but why not add or code the missing items instead of banning the said mon from pvp ?

 

I really agree, i think it should be a priority to code/add in some CRUCIAL items.

As one poster said, without stuff like Life Orb/Choice items, alot of sets/pokemon become irrelevant or downright useless.. Once we have these items, we can start thinking about a list like this.

For example, without Flame Orb, Guts users like Ursaring or Swellow swoop right down into the lowest tiers.

I would not concider using Breloom without Toxic Orb, for me, atleast, it's like it's signature item. So i think that it should really be a focus, i understand these things are easier said than done, which is why i'd like to offer my help if needed in any way possible i can. I really enjoy this game, and i'd really like to see it go in the right direction.

 

PM if there's anything i can do.

[Coop33]

205379

205376 Here the solution:

For staff please just make ORB & CHOICE item works, it will solve the stall problem, and then you can ban shadowtag ability from ladder.

Everyone will be happy, no more time will be wasted for discussing the same thing over and over again. So, we can move on.

That is the main purpose of this thread right?

I agree with Futz.

Those items will definitely prevent people from using excessive amount of stall Pokemons. That being said, PVP will be more enjoyable without tanks such as Slowbro and etc.

 

Tbh i can live with this. :y:

[Bong2015]

Idk why people hate stall team; from my point of view, stall is much harder to be good at compare to offensive, (despite I haven't used stall since the end of season1).

For people who think w. orbs and choice items u can finally eliminate stalls from the ladder: You will find urself die faster w. that orb's recoil or stuck and forced switch out more often with those choice items. :devil:

But I agree, we need more items for diversify our choices when building team :D

[Aman21]

Idk why people hate stall team; from my point of view, stall is much harder to be good at compare to offensive, (despite I haven't used stall since the end of season1).

For people who think w. orbs and choice items u can finally eliminate stalls from the ladder: You will find urself die faster w. that orb's recoil or stuck and forced switch out more often with those choice items. :devil:

But I agree, we need more items for diversify our choices when building team :D

If substitute works in the future along with intro of choice items and life orb anyone with decent prediction skills would gladly 6-0 your stall team sir (no offense) stall dies you just have to predict and be aggressive.

[Tr3y]

205158

204820

204808

If you want details try scrolling up and reading what RANKED players have posted. If that isn't enough for you then you should go check out the reasons smogon gave for banning it. It's not competitive, over-powered, and should be banned regardless. Not just Gothitelle but other shadow tag users as well. You lack credibility my friend.

 

Sry for my lack of credibility. Im sure yours is good enough for your point of view. Be sure i read every post carefully in here and i know why gothitelle is banned in showdown. I think i made my point clear and i wont repeat myself over and over again, I just wanna say one more time: This is pro, not showdown.

Tr3y, have you read what I, a ranked player both in PRO and smogon, have said? Accusing someone of "lacking credibility" shouldn't ever happen in a decent discussion whatsoever, if someone who doesn't know anything about pvp comes in here and says "pls ban talonflame" or "pls ban sableye prankster" I would have answered the same way I did with the "experienced" players regarding gothitelle:

202240 I really don't get all the fuss about gothitelle...

 

 

1. Tiers are made for pokemon showdown, a competitive environment where the one and only problem is "what to pick" and "what am i allowed to pick to compete at the same level with my opponent". In PRO the eventual "Ubers" would be really different and should include the "unobtainable" pokemon to everyone (see staff pokemon, banned indeed). So complaining about "gothitelle shadow tag is uber, pls copy showdown and ban" makes really no sense.

 

2. You're making it seem impossible to counter with all those "unhealthy" "gamebreaking" and so on out of context adjectives. It's not unbalanced at all, there are TONS of counters to it, unlike many other pokemon, perhaps you just didn't bother to bring them in your team when you faced one (because unexpected). Guess what, even a ferrothorn can ruin your team if you don't have fire coverage, what's the difference? Something you didn't came prepared for, that has counter and counter stuff... unhealthy? please.

Bring u-turn / volt switch / baton pass on your special attacker (see magnezone) to counter shadow tag, dark physical coverage, heavy physical dmg, gothitelle is done for, has way more counters than the most used ability in the game, regenerator.

And guess what, all this fuss because shadow tag counters that...

 

3. Banning an obtainable extremely rare (h.a. as well) pokemon who is working as intended is really dangerous for a MMO environment, PRO isn't showdown where you can get shadow tag gothitelle just by selecting it, there are people who actually spent weeks farming for that h.a. extremely rare, and whoever tried that feeling (hi prankster sableye) knows how much of a pain that is. People saying "ban gothitelle shadowtag" aren't that much different from the guy who said "ban talonflame galewings", there are just as many counters to it, difference being if you don't expect the pokemon (like you do with talonflame) you might be careless with switch ins/outs without having scouted properly the enemy team before, get trapped when you scald with your slowbro and lose your regenerator.

 

4. Wall breaking. Another major problem in the current PvP state, the lack of items like life orb and specs make wall breaking extremely hard. When life orb comes people will get more used to their "walls" being destroyed and maybe realize that a strategy that relies 99% on switching between walls isn't that good anymore. Shadowtag gothitelle does the same, wall breaking, people in PRO aren't just used to get their walls countered...

 

Now this:

204835 K so i am using gothitelle my self right now and i have to admit that it does lean on being over powered... that said, it is a long sort after answer to stall teams. but again, stall is no longer the best pvp set up anyway, i find hyper offensive a lot harder to deal with. Pokemon like togekiss / mew / garchomp are monsters to deal with once their respective counters have been dealt with.

 

Back to goth. Right now it completely shuts down pokemon like starmie / slowbro / tenta / roserade that are seen very often in top ladder teams. One poke rendering so many pokemon unsuable just doesnt seem right imo, and will do no good to the game. But as long as its legal by PRO's rules i will use it because i have been saving my goth up sine the first month of PRO's release... Besides, there are ways around it.

First: sorry for the dc during in our battle, battery died x.x

Second: there are ways of countering gothitelle EVEN with some of the very pokemon you mentioned, saying one pokemon rendering so many pokemon unusable is an exaggeration, with the right moveset special attackers can make gothitelle 100% useless. Let it go for physical or unexpected hybrids, but hey that's way off from the bible that is smogon, I wouldn't dare even mentioning something so blasphemous :(

Third: Gothitelle shuts down meta pokemon right now... Slowbro is meta because it shuts down (by switching in and out) heavy physical attackers (talonflame / weavile / machamp and so on), I feel like slowbro shuts down waaaay more pokemon than gothitelle does.

I've read everything you said Sharlank. About your 3rd statement. It shouldn't matter how hard it is to obtain gothitelle or how rare it is. The main priority should be to keep the metagame healthy. Your 1st statement doesn't make any sense also. Just because pokemon showdown has tiers doesn't mean this game can't. There are tiers for games other than pokemon as well. They shouldn't only be limited to pokemon showdown. #2 You are right, it is not impossible to counter Gothitelle but in order to do so you have to build half of your team just to deal with it. This deems the pokemon over-centralized and doesn't encourage diversity within the metagame. This is the same reason Speed Boost Blaziken is banned from OU in showdown. When I see your claims all I see is, "We shouldn't ban shadow tag Gothitelle because tanky mons are hard to break without it and it is a hard pokemon to obtain. And we shouldn't have tiers in this game because that would mean copying pokemon showdown." This isn't logical at all and encourages an unhealthy PvP metagame.

[Bigdanny]

the current meta is unhealthy

 

expecially blissey, can almost destroy all special attackers in this game

 

what do u think about healty pvp environment is ?

 

full of blisseys, ferros, milotics, slowbros, talonflames, garchomps ,dragonites, azumarills, tyranitars ??

 

pokemon pvp will never be balanced.

 

what we can do is just collect tier1, tier2 pokemons and use them to bettle and win

 

like youngerster joey's team epic ratatta will never be useful in pvp

 

if u don't like Gothitelle or think it's too op, then go get yourself a Gothitelle

[Badhaxery]

So uh, you think every team packing a Shadow Tag Gothitelle will be healthy? Saying Gothitelle is OP so get Gothitelle is like saying Stall is OP so just stall. It's counterproductive lol.

[Coop33]

I agree the meta-game should be kept healthy.

But what is a healthy meta-game in pro? To end up in Showdown-pvp?

 

I think to face most favorable (cause most success) 80% stall teams with minimum 30+ mins cant be a healty state atm.

I never saw a gothitelle in ranked, letz say i face it in 1 of 10 or even in 1 of 5 games by now. I prefer this >>>>>>>> over 80% Stall-teams. And im sure im not alone with my thoughts.

 

Letz say we bring in Tier Uber, OU, UU and lowes. Good idea, i like, but is this healty for pro? 3 Tiers and u need to find a battle with max 1800 players online at same time. Healty? Hard to say, might take a while.

 

Is it fair to forbid players using pokes in ranked, where they spend a lot of time/money for getting them? For a good and fair PVP-Environment. Yes, u are right. So why we just dont delete whole rarity-system, get that breeding in and make it easy for everyone with 100h playtime to get the perfect team they want for pvp. Good for fair pvp games, but healthy for MMO-Environment? Hmm.

Not to mention not everyone likes pvp who plays pro. So every step u take to make pvp fights more interesting dont forget about all the other states of the game.

 

Tbh if i would see a gothitelle comp in each of my games, this would be boring and stupid. But now i see a blissey stall team comp in each of my games, this isnt just boring and stupid this is annyoing and time-wasting also.

So if we just ban gothitelle, u think the pvp-games are healty or "healty enough" again?

Well i dont think so. I think she is the only reason atm why ppl might reorder their team away from 90%stall and maybe 1 sweeper.

 

If we have all the choice/orb items etc in, i would say, letz discuss is it again for this new meta.

And i might agree with u.;) But atm, no.^^

[Bigdanny]

yeah everybody uses stall team

 

why can't everybody use h.a Gothitelle ??

 

Do we ban stall team ??

 

if everybody get a h.a Gothitelle in the team, there is no difference from everybody uses blissey, slowbro in their team

 

just go get one h.a Gothitelle, u trap me and i trap u.

 

everything is solved.

 

pretty fair, isn't it ?? just like everybody abuses blissey, slowbro