Competitive Leads in PRO Discussion/Usage

[Nathan]

Cool guide :)

I'll probably refer myself back to this in the future.

[Enforcer]

319507 good list, but i would put drag, ferro, donphan and machamp one down ( in drags case maybe even 2, its rarely getting used as lead)

 

Would move Meta 1 up and who the hell uses Crawdaunt lead? :P

 

 

Also feels like, that starmie leads are somehow fotm right now.

 

I'll make few changes next chance I get, I still run into a ton of drago's personally

Haven't played against one starmie yet, but obviously my sample size is about 80 game this season

Run into 3 or more crawdawnt leads running Ddance. Will prob bump down

agree on metagross ;)

319517 Where is my classic Ambipom-Lead!

Used to be very strong Pre Gen 6th and hey, guess where we are in PRO. :P

 

Love to lead with him and get a free fake out. If u meet an opponent u already know u can bait an expected ghost type switch in and one shot gengars with knock off who predict your fake out.

I saw ambipom a few times as i pvp´d, atm im a bit out of form tho.

I have run into it once or twice will add it, someone is super brave or foolish swapping in a Gengar unless they are going for the double swap to ghost and then to something that resist dark. Seems like alot just to dodge a fakeout.

 

Just gathering everyone's opinion , thank you both for your input

[Idkup]

ambipom is and was never good in any standard metagame except DPP UU, due to it simply being too weak to warrant using such a frail pokemon. it also has a lack of coverage which renders it essentially unable to fight off steels at all (252 Atk Ambipom Low Kick (100 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Scizor: 90-107 (32 - 38%) -- 96.4% chance to 3HKO

) (252 Atk Ambipom Low Kick (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 124-146 (35.2 - 41.4%) -- 72.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery) (252 Atk Ambipom Low Kick (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Magnezone: 162-192 (47 - 55.8%) -- 21.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

) (252 Atk Ambipom Low Kick (80 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lucario: 196-232 (69.7 - 82.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO) (i won't even bother calc'ing skarmory here, because it's clear by this point) Fake out is also extremely predictable, which means steels can switch in with impunity and set up hazards / swords dance / nasty plot without risk, costing you valuable momentum and perhaps even setting up a complete dismantling of your team by something like SD Scizor. Furthermore, you simply don't get the damage output from Ambipom that you might from another frail lead, such as Alakazam:

 

252 Atk Ambipom Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 139-165 (40.7 - 48.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 SpA Gengar Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Manaphy: 148-175 (43.4 - 51.3%) -- 6.6% chance to 2HKO

252 Atk Weavile Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 151-178 (44.2 - 52.1%) -- 16% chance to 2HKO

 

 

and as for their coverage options:

 

252 SpA Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Manaphy: 132-156 (38.7 - 45.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 Atk Ambipom Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 89-105 (26 - 30.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

252 Atk Weavile Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 117-138 (34.3 - 40.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (This Manaphy was set to be Normal-type instead of Water for more relevant results)

 

 

Its problems are compounded by the fact that Normal is a decidedly meh offensive typing, and also offers no useful resists (switch into Gengar at your own peril, even Icy Wind will mean Ambipom is forced out again.)

 

The one thing it does have going for it is that it beats Gengar leads handily 1v1, but other than that... not much

[Tr3y]

bump!

[Bong2015]

320483 ambipom is and was never good in any standard metagame except DPP UU, due to it simply being too weak to warrant using such a frail pokemon. it also has a lack of coverage which renders it essentially unable to fight off steels at all (252 Atk Ambipom Low Kick (100 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Scizor: 90-107 (32 - 38%) -- 96.4% chance to 3HKO

) (252 Atk Ambipom Low Kick (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 124-146 (35.2 - 41.4%) -- 72.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery) (252 Atk Ambipom Low Kick (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Magnezone: 162-192 (47 - 55.8%) -- 21.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

) (252 Atk Ambipom Low Kick (80 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lucario: 196-232 (69.7 - 82.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO) (i won't even bother calc'ing skarmory here, because it's clear by this point) Fake out is also extremely predictable, which means steels can switch in with impunity and set up hazards / swords dance / nasty plot without risk, costing you valuable momentum and perhaps even setting up a complete dismantling of your team by something like SD Scizor. Furthermore, you simply don't get the damage output from Ambipom that you might from another frail lead, such as Alakazam:

 

252 Atk Ambipom Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 139-165 (40.7 - 48.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 SpA Gengar Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Manaphy: 148-175 (43.4 - 51.3%) -- 6.6% chance to 2HKO

252 Atk Weavile Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 151-178 (44.2 - 52.1%) -- 16% chance to 2HKO

 

 

and as for their coverage options:

 

252 SpA Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Manaphy: 132-156 (38.7 - 45.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 Atk Ambipom Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 89-105 (26 - 30.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

252 Atk Weavile Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 117-138 (34.3 - 40.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (This Manaphy was set to be Normal-type instead of Water for more relevant results)

 

 

Its problems are compounded by the fact that Normal is a decidedly meh offensive typing, and also offers no useful resists (switch into Gengar at your own peril, even Icy Wind will mean Ambipom is forced out again.)

 

The one thing it does have going for it is that it beats Gengar leads handily 1v1, but other than that... not much

 

Problem w. the monkey is: here in PRO, U-turn - one of its mandatory move is not working properly. Losing Ambipom its scout ability.. Other than that, in my opinion, it's a good lead for PRO meta right now, especially in a right hand.

[Simotofu]

326018 ing Ambipom its scout ability.. Other than that, in my opinion, it's a good lead for PRO meta right now, especially in a right hand.

what's wrong with u-turn ?

[Guest LiquidSnakeK]

327051

326018 ing Ambipom its scout ability.. Other than that, in my opinion, it's a good lead for PRO meta right now, especially in a right hand.

what's wrong with u-turn ?

You move first and then swap. The way it should be is, You select U-Turn, then wait for the opponent to react, THEN you select what pokemon you want to switch in. The way it stands now its basically just swapping your pokemon manually.

[Simotofu]

327062 The way it should be is, You select U-Turn, then wait for the opponent to react, THEN you select what pokemon you want to switch in. The way it stands now its basically just swapping your pokemon manuall

i see thanks

[Tr3y]

327062

327051

326018 ing Ambipom its scout ability.. Other than that, in my opinion, it's a good lead for PRO meta right now, especially in a right hand.

what's wrong with u-turn ?

You move first and then swap. The way it should be is, You select U-Turn, then wait for the opponent to react, THEN you select what pokemon you want to switch in. The way it stands now its basically just swapping your pokemon manually.

This bug makes me cringe. I hope someday it gets resolved. Very nice post though Enforcer, well done.

[Mestrepokemon]

This bug makes me cringe. I hope someday it gets resolved. Very nice post though Enforcer, well done.

 

it seems to be easy to fix it... and how long has this been bugged? (...)