Shadow Tag

[Cam]

I agree. At least, if they don't ban shadowtag, they should ban the especific moveset of calm mind + rest in a shadowtag user.

[Krepachu]

100% on your side bro, something needs to be done, it is impossible to counter shadow tag combo on goth :Cry:

[Theburi]

the crying shadowtag post of the week.

Opposed to what u said, every week and every month someone make a thread crying because they lost against a freaking gothielle... I personally don't use it, and have only seen it once... just got rid of it easily... u only need HEAVY HITTERS.

If u play 6 stall mon, and get destroyed by a freaking gothielle DEAL WITH IT.... The meta of this game is arleady pretty short, and u only wanna make it smaller because u can't counter something with a LOT of counters.. Smogon has it banned, but in smogon u have a millon diffrent pokes so no point of comparison...

Just learn to carry a counter to a pkmon and that's all

[Flaflapt]

331016 the crying shadowtag post of the week.

Opposed to what u said, every week and every month someone make a thread crying because they lost against a freaking gothielle... I personally don't use it, and have only seen it once... just got rid of it easily... u only need HEAVY HITTERS.

If u play 6 stall mon, and get destroyed by a freaking gothielle DEAL WITH IT.... The meta of this game is arleady pretty short, and u only wanna make it smaller because u can't counter something with a LOT of counters.. Smogon has it banned, but in smogon u have a millon diffrent pokes so no point of comparison...

Just learn to carry a counter to a pkmon and that's all

 

Oh you got me wrong, I haven't started laddering yet on PRO, but I know the strenght of Goth from playing showdown. I just saw Goth in one of Tr3y's youtube videos which he was forced to speed up the video because of the set up.

 

You only saw it once, that's a life time experience bro :Smile: . You shouldn't judge your opinion on a mon based on 1 appearance, specially if it was badly used. Obviously if you run 6 physical hyper offensive team, Goth isn't an issue at all, because it can't set up. But if you decide to run balance and there's a Goth on the other side, you WILL get punished and you won't even see it coming.

 

Clearly you missed the point of this topic. I don't mind being the cry baby but at least throw solid arguments. I threw mine, I expect the same from who doesn't agree with me. That's how a discussion progresses. Heavy hitters, ok, name them.

[Teemoking]

no need to ban shadow tag(gothitelle), it's just part of the game

 

i encounterd s.t gothitelle many times on ladder. Sometimes i got raped by it and sometimes i won it

 

i also use gothitelle for some team build, i am sure that gothitelle can't give you a 100% win rate and some time, it's kinda useless(can't even trap one of enemy's pokemon)

 

so it's just part of the game

 

stop complaining about it :Smile:

[Rekkuza]

330957 Lunestra wrote:

Source of the post Thing you need to consider when comparing to the meta of Smogon, is that Smogon takes into account all abilities, moves and items. PRO currently is missing a lot of pvp orientated items, along with some moves and abilities, so comparing the two meta's isnt really viable at this point, and is also a big reason why Shadow Tag Gothitelle is not banned in PRO.

 

 

I'm sorry, but your argument just supports my cause. Due to the lack of offensive items (choice items, life orb, is there even shed shell in the game to avoid getting trapped?), defensive/stall/set up trapper mons are stronger than ever.

One knock off from a Bisharp and the Goth is dead, as with usually the case if not a full health Goth from a sucker punch Weavile, and considering how frequent they are in this meta, its not exactly "hard" to cause Goth an issue, yes shadow tag is OP at the moment due to the amount of viable pokemon that give it a free setup but its not impossible to beat a Goth and your comment there is acting like its Arceus, its easily beaten and its not exactly only got non-pvp-worthy counters, Bisharp and Weavile are in pretty much every team.

[Shewas18]

331099

One knock off from a Bisharp and the Goth is dead, as with usually the case if not a full health Goth from a sucker punch Weavile, and considering how frequent they are in this meta, its not exactly "hard" to cause Goth an issue, yes shadow tag is OP at the moment due to the amount of viable pokemon that give it a free setup but its not impossible to beat a Goth and your comment there is acting like its Arceus, its easily beaten and its not exactly only got non-pvp-worthy counters, Bisharp and Weavile are in pretty much every team.

So the best you can do is TRYING to revenge smthing who came free on you on a dedicated wall(and trap aswell two of the most used spinner) if you'r running balance or either stall ,watch it dies without counterplay , and hope your opponent doesn't run smthing fairy or fight ? Ah yeah forgot you can't PURSUIT trap either , make sense . Im not whinning about goth or talon atm , but that doesn't mean it's not broken . Balance is by definition the playstyle with an odd of winning against everything and the hardest to play since you get easily punished by a missplay while stall and h.o are almost brainless, player who started "pvping" with gen 6 probably never played any because of m-evo rendered the playstyle deciduous and sometimes auto-loose , and goth/talon in pro give the same approach , so the summary is , left side you got staller whinning , right h.o not giving a fuck ,at the total oposite you got talon , h.o crying out loud (and runned in every h/o team, why not ? ), while stall is laughing , and caught in the middle balance heavly pressured by both of them , to the point it's disgusting .

So you got the community abording the subjet every week , and staff totally ignoring the community slash giving so-so called arguments (we could alost debate about current rules arguments and shadowtag/gw to made them irrevalent ), or either closing their eyes . Dunno why the community has to adapt on her own , isn't basic stuff for mmo games/simulator/whatever you want if smthing is herebly broken/too strong/noxious af ,it got nerfed at some point or restricted/banned ?(all of us can write a message 300words long with exemples shh),We got no tools to change the situation ,The staff has to do smthing not the community and Having discussion everyweek isn't going to change anything anyways .

[Tymerod]

330947 Thing you need to consider when comparing to the meta of Smogon, is that Smogon takes into account all abilities, moves and items. PRO currently is missing a lot of pvp orientated items, along with some moves and abilities, so comparing the two meta's isnt really viable at this point, and is also a big reason why Shadow Tag Gothitelle is not banned in PRO.

That makes every pokemon with a working ability even stronger and not weaker.

 

Imo shadow tag isnt the problem right now. Shadow tag is abused to make gothitelle the most reliable setup sweeper with calm mind. Shadow tag + calm mind transforms rest in a reliable recovery move at +2 (or +1) letting u setup to +6, kill the pokemon and still remain +95% HP

A bold one with leftover isnt even a guaranteed OHKO with knock off for pokemons like bisharp or weavile right now. But at +6 all of them are a guaranteed OHKO with signal beam or thunderbolt. And if some1 uses a chesto berry instead of a leftover there wouldnt be a chance for a dark type to ever OHKO it once chesto berry is consumed. On the bug side we have only scoliped and heracross (guts+poisoned) being able to OHKO with megahorn limited to 85% because of accuracy. And i dont think we have a strong physical ghost type right now.

All the revenge killing stuff is limited by the fact that u are free to switch gothitelle out whenever u want because pursuit isnt working.

Gothitelle is fine without calm mind because it has access to taunt. It will do its job but never trade for more than 1for2 and 1for1 in most cases because of its low speed. So before killing gothitelle completely i would advise to bann calm mind (and trick once it works) on shadow tag gothitelle. If its still fotm a bann is still possible.

[Fatmanclt]

Ah yeah forgot you can't PURSUIT trap either , make sense .

 

The important quote is here.

No pursuit code + no team preview.

 

Goth can trap a poke kill it and go back full life, u can have a Weavile, Tyra or Bisharp they will do nothing vs goth without pursuit.

 

Do u realize the fact that only ONE poke can destroy balance and stall team is OP ?

[Flaflapt]

331057 no need to ban shadow tag(gothitelle), it's just part of the game

 

i encounterd s.t gothitelle many times on ladder. Sometimes i got raped by it and sometimes i won it

 

i also use gothitelle for some team build, i am sure that gothitelle can't give you a 100% win rate and some time, it's kinda useless(can't even trap one of enemy's pokemon)

 

so it's just part of the game

 

stop complaining about it :Smile:

 

My man, "part of the game" isn't an argument. This is about balance and the effeciency/cheapness of Goth. Spore is also a part of the game, but there's a sleep cause. Swagger is a part of the game, but there's a clause for it. Baton pass is a part of the game, but there's a clause for it.

The rules were made for a reason, sometimes I feel people forget that.

331099

330957 Lunestra wrote:

Source of the post Thing you need to consider when comparing to the meta of Smogon, is that Smogon takes into account all abilities, moves and items. PRO currently is missing a lot of pvp orientated items, along with some moves and abilities, so comparing the two meta's isnt really viable at this point, and is also a big reason why Shadow Tag Gothitelle is not banned in PRO.

 

 

I'm sorry, but your argument just supports my cause. Due to the lack of offensive items (choice items, life orb, is there even shed shell in the game to avoid getting trapped?), defensive/stall/set up trapper mons are stronger than ever.

One knock off from a Bisharp and the Goth is dead, as with usually the case if not a full health Goth from a sucker punch Weavile, and considering how frequent they are in this meta, its not exactly "hard" to cause Goth an issue, yes shadow tag is OP at the moment due to the amount of viable pokemon that give it a free setup but its not impossible to beat a Goth and your comment there is acting like its Arceus, its easily beaten and its not exactly only got non-pvp-worthy counters, Bisharp and Weavile are in pretty much every team.

 

I would answer, but I wouldn't add much to what other people said. In summary, the way of dealing with it is you can only hope to revenge kill it (if it stays in vs a Crawdaunt/Bisharp/Weavile/Heracross). If the Goth is Resto Chesto, Knock off isn't an option to revenge kill it. With no Pursuit, it can always get away for free.

 

This isn't about Goth being impossible to beat, you're not seeing my point. Goth is beatable. The problem is you have to sack almost half of your team to get rid of it (the trapped mon, the mon that can't revenge kill it but does decent damage for the 3rd to ko it, judging it doesn't switch out ever).

 

A pokemon that gets free kills with free set up, not revenge killable, imo is a broken mon.