Staff pokes - Is this really what the PVP community wants?

[Lucareus]

Lets try to keep this discussion as mature as possible.

Everyone has the right to express his opinion and other players can obviously say their point without taunting and/or disrespecting.

 

Have you all a great day and a pacific confrontation

[Galio]

[Crokstar]

Dear players,

 

I notice that you are all overshading the whole matter just by talking at each other when the topic should remain as clear from trash talk as possible so that the community can read through it and understand it.

 

Some of you are after staff pokes because it is by some chance possible to obtain. I mean legendaries and tier 9 pokes. Which are currently really in meta like Latios, dragonite, zapdos.

 

The number of chance getting 1/6^31 was just a shortcut calculation to show the absurd of the number. But man even if in reality the percentage WOULD BE 1/1000 then tell me how many normals players (the PVP hardened ones which actually do PVP in ladder and the matter of skill in higher ladder combined with epic IVs are important) will obtain it? Add this a HP to the 9 tier/legendary poke. Just imagine with pure logic is it really as obtainable as you think? The staff pokes are really 30/31 type poke (when HP then can be lower but it is the best bersion of HP usually) So well that won't make a much difference between the number 1/6^31

Lets say for offensive pokemons spatk/atk one of it will not matter so it can be 1/5^31=1/28629151

please count in 50% for sync fails so it will be a larger number. Now how many possibilities you drop of by putting a 30 IV not 31 IV? It is rather numbers like 50,60 or so So you can minus the 50,60,75 or w/e of the total number to get closer to the true number of possibility.

 

As far as I know in PRO there aren't so many players. So the rest of them really will have their pokes outclassed in many terms ( team comp, IV's, SHINY - Wow for someone it can matter but it has no impact on pvp ) so please try to be objective and by all means REALISTIC of the chance you will get one.

 

Please remember that staff puts work to make the game better so let them have a "small" reward for their work but it should be more fair looking compare to the other players pokes because other players ALSO put a lot of their time to achieve the epic ones which are not even close to the staff pokes.

 

Logically the most important aspect is the speed IV which allows to reach a speed tier which should be put to the table as the major IV considering to change it or not. Same for HP some pokes having the HP perform a lot more better then without it. I think I dont need to again talk about probability.

 

What I read from the comments some people think that epic legendaries compared to staff is something casual. Please again go back to the probability section read it patiently even if it is maths and the make a comment considering this.

 

Personally I think that IV's should be based around the tier and for legendaries it should be even more restricted due to the fact that every player can only have one chance of getting a good one.

As I mentioned we are not against staff getting rewards for their hardwork but we want it to be a bit more fair then it is for now on.

 

Ranked ladder is something that should mainly show who is the skilled one. And remember simple equation:

equally skilled player+truly epic poke>equally skilled player+standard epic poke.

 

And another equation

generated poke>luck

 

Considering this it is more aimed to the staff players. Still at the end the decision will be made by the staffs, I just want to try to show why community doesn't appreciate sucha pokes in PVP. What are they overpassing by creating sucha pokes ( yeah it is probability). Why they have sucha advantage in PVP if they do PVP.

You staff guys might do nothing about it but at least your decision will be made after the knowledge of how unfair it is compare to the normal players. At the end PRO doesn't end on staff players but it is also the community that makes the game. Btw nice that you made nicknames of players in Sinnoh.

 

I hope you will stick to the topic and build more constructive comments based on fruitful thoughts not just trying to force your own sentence by insisting things which actually in reality don't occur to everyone.

 

Crokstar.

 

PS: For example me I don't have any legendaries because I am math thinking person and the probability means for me a lot. Basing on this the chance i would get an acceptable IV poke is not worth the time i would need to spend to get it. Think of it.

[Gambilicious]

You guys target staff generated pokes specifically but don't seem to care about players catching near-perfect pokes or players winning them through the official tournaments held from time to time. The only difference between a near-perfect staff poke and a near-perfect poke caught by a regular player is the way they were obtained; ergo you can't complain about staff pokes because of their IVs solely without also complaining about pokes with similar IVs obtained by regular farming/tournaments - it doesn't make sense since it is literally the same thing. The only difference between staff pokes and regular pokes is the way they are obtained - you argue that it is fair for players to use near-perfect pokes because of their time spent farming. Now staffs obviously don't spend time farming for their staff pokes but they instead spent time making PRO a better game, be it through mapping, dealing with reports, ... etc. Why would the time people spend for farming be worth more than the time staffs spend for staff-work?

 

In conclusion I think that staffs should be allowed to use as many staff-generated pokes as they like - as long as said pokes are available for regular players aswell. I'd like to once again point out that the only difference between staff pokes and regular pokes is the way people obtain them; for both ways a certain amount of time is invested which finally leads me to believe that banning staff pokes based on their IVs while allowing regular pokes with similar IVs is not just plain unfair but simply contradictory.

 

rip i made a huge post and its gone cause i didnt log in rip.

 

i will try to summarize.

 

Players farming for 6 months doesnt gurantee a perfect mon and comparing them to staff mons is just wrong to be polite, because us hunting is full rng and we cant really decide what specific mon is gonna be nearly perfect, for all i know it could be the wild encounter to my hunting spot and even if i get that nearly perfect mon with speed being low af, even tho its really important for speedtier its basically useless.

As for tournament rewards, ppl who win pvp tournaments have actually shown their abilities in the pvp game and should be able to use them, pretty sure moderating or mapping shouldnt give you permission to impact the pvp meta game as you please. Aswell as with lax rules like these we are just waiting for some kind of Zarate player to become staff and wreck havoc in pvp.

 

Staff mons arent super unfair, but they are overpowered in certain aspects:

 

-Legendaries are full rng and shouldnt be handed out perfectly to impact the meta game.

-Staff can handpick certain mons to fill the gap in their team and its guranteed, because even if you hunt there is no gurantee you will get a perfect mon. (aswell as things like speed tier matter, so max speed is sometimes all or nothing) and its not limited ( you can even pick boss exclusive mons which require god rng for normal players)

- Changing rewards is just completly wrong, because staff can just change their mon according to the meta or can snatch up perfect new introduced mons (players cant just trade their hard farmed mons, just because its lost power in the meta)

 

The most simple solution is to just change the parameters of staff mons instead of getting rid of them.

I want to see staff rewarded for their hard work, harrasment/abusement and time invested, they really do deserve it, but we should also try to keep it for fair for all sides.

 

Legendaries, boss exclusive and unavaliable mons should be excluded and it should be limited to avaliable mons every single player could farm with perfect kinda ivs in the same 6 months timeframe.

 

Pretty sure this solution could make most staff and playerbase happy and its better than to see these topics pop up here or discord every single week and everybody qqing or staff being forced to say *just deal with it*.

 

This isnt meant as rant or trashtalk but personally iam tired of seeing these topics and all those posts missing the general point of this dilemma, but iam open for discussion and suggestions as long as they are civil.

 

Have a good day guys!

[Maui]

It is important for players to understand that the staff actually does work tremendously hard. I will agree with Gambi, if you look back Oli had a latios before anyone else had access and it was used in pvp. As I personally did not have an issue with it, it was an incredibly unfair mon. I think that for pvp staff should still be able to have two mons that are farmable, even if they are tier 9 right hp right ability. This is to reward the staff for their work. I think the only parameters should be that you can not have a legendary to play with. So maybe a good solution is 2 staff generated FARMABLE mons or One premium mon ( legendary, epic boss reward, coded but not in game). This should be a fair solution. Really for normal mons, a good pvper should be prepared to go against epic farmable mons. Just legendaries get a little hazy

[6head]

You guys target staff generated pokes specifically but don't seem to care about players catching near-perfect pokes or players winning them through the official tournaments held from time to time. The only difference between a near-perfect staff poke and a near-perfect poke caught by a regular player is the way they were obtained; ergo you can't complain about staff pokes because of their IVs solely without also complaining about pokes with similar IVs obtained by regular farming/tournaments - it doesn't make sense since it is literally the same thing. The only difference between staff pokes and regular pokes is the way they are obtained - you argue that it is fair for players to use near-perfect pokes because of their time spent farming. Now staffs obviously don't spend time farming for their staff pokes but they instead spent time making PRO a better game, be it through mapping, dealing with reports, ... etc. Why would the time people spend for farming be worth more than the time staffs spend for staff-work?

 

In conclusion I think that staffs should be allowed to use as many staff-generated pokes as they like - as long as said pokes are available for regular players aswell. I'd like to once again point out that the only difference between staff pokes and regular pokes is the way people obtain them; for both ways a certain amount of time is invested which finally leads me to believe that banning staff pokes based on their IVs while allowing regular pokes with similar IVs is not just plain unfair but simply contradictory.

 

rip i made a huge post and its gone cause i didnt log in rip.

 

i will try to summarize.

 

Players farming for 6 months doesnt gurantee a perfect mon and comparing them to staff mons is just wrong to be polite, because us hunting is full rng and we cant really decide what specific mon is gonna be nearly perfect, for all i know it could be the wild encounter to my hunting spot and even if i get that nearly perfect mon with speed being low af, even tho its really important for speedtier its basically useless.

As for tournament rewards, ppl who win pvp tournaments have actually shown their abilities in the pvp game and should be able to use them, pretty sure moderating or mapping shouldnt give you permission to impact the pvp meta game as you please. Aswell as with lax rules like these we are just waiting for some kind of Zarate player to become staff and wreck havoc in pvp.

 

Staff mons arent super unfair, but they are overpowered in certain aspects:

 

-Legendaries are full rng and shouldnt be handed out perfectly to impact the meta game.

-Staff can handpick certain mons to fill the gap in their team and its guranteed, because even if you hunt there is no gurantee you will get a perfect mon. (aswell as things like speed tier matter, so max speed is sometimes all or nothing) and its not limited ( you can even pick boss exclusive mons which require god rng for normal players)

- Changing rewards is just completly wrong, because staff can just change their mon according to the meta or can snatch up perfect new introduced mons (players cant just trade their hard farmed mons, just because its lost power in the meta)

 

The most simple solution is to just change the parameters of staff mons instead of getting rid of them.

I want to see staff rewarded for their hard work, harrasment/abusement and time invested, they really do deserve it, but we should also try to keep it for fair for all sides.

 

Legendaries, boss exclusive and unavaliable mons should be excluded and it should be limited to avaliable mons every single player could farm with perfect kinda ivs in the same 6 months timeframe.

 

Pretty sure this solution could make most staff and playerbase happy and its better than to see these topics pop up here or discord every single week and everybody qqing or staff being forced to say *just deal with it*.

 

This isnt meant as rant or trashtalk but personally iam tired of seeing these topics and all those posts missing the general point of this dilemma, but iam open for discussion and suggestions as long as they are civil.

 

Have a good day guys!

 

It doesn't matter how likely a regular player is to obtain a near-perfect legendary. My point is, even if only one player among 1000 has one, that one player is allowed to use it. It's the same for tournament rewards - a near-perfect Raikou is undoubtly an advantage, but yet I see noone arguing that tournament rewards like that Raikou should also be banned. I feel like I'm repeating myself for the 100th time here but I wil keep saying it: if you ignore the way they are obtained, a staff reward Raikou and a tournament reward/super lucky catch Raikou have absolutely no difference. How can you ban one but allow the other when in regards to PVP, they are one and the same? You can't. That's not to be discussed as it is something you deduce from simple logic - it's objective. If we look at the way those pokes are obtained, we of course see a difference: You tackle that difference and consider it unfair which is absolutely reasonable - I wouldn't mind if you opened a discussion talking about whether or not mapping/moderating/etc. should reward staffs with the staff pokes they currently are given. (I'd probably not partake in that discussion either, since I don't think you can objectively say that xx amount of staff work is worth xx amount of won tournaments/luck) But in this thread, people are trying to get staff pokes banned because of the advantage they grant to their owners while ignoring the advantage tournament rewards/huge luck on catches grant to regular players - it's contradictional. They are one and the same; ban both or neither. In my opinion letting staff pokes roam free is absolutely fine as long as players have a chance to get the very same poke stat-wise, it doesn't matter how small that chance is.

[6head]

Sure you can include anything you want since you are fabricating things that we think and want and seem to not care at all what our reasoning's are behind them.

 

I could link a picture of a tournament reward Raikou and a staff-generated Raikou with the exact same stats and you couldn't tell the difference. I could upload the same picture twice for all you know. Now tell me why one of those is ok, while one is to be banned? You can't justify it, it wouldn't follow any logic. You said that you don't care about how either are obtained so even in that regard you can't argue about odds - what base exactly is left for you to argue on?

[Bladermagician]

Sure you can include anything you want since you are fabricating things that we think and want and seem to not care at all what our reasoning's are behind them.

 

I could link a picture of a tournament reward Raikou and a staff-generated Raikou with the exact same stats and you couldn't tell the difference. I could upload the same picture twice for all you know. Now tell me why one of those is ok, while one is to be banned? You can't justify it, it wouldn't follow any logic. You said that you don't care about how either are obtained so even in that regard you can't argue about odds - what base exactly is left for you to argue on?

 

I've already answered you multiple times on this exact same subject and you clearly don't understand.

[6head]

Sure you can include anything you want since you are fabricating things that we think and want and seem to not care at all what our reasoning's are behind them.

 

I could link a picture of a tournament reward Raikou and a staff-generated Raikou with the exact same stats and you couldn't tell the difference. I could upload the same picture twice for all you know. Now tell me why one of those is ok, while one is to be banned? You can't justify it, it wouldn't follow any logic. You said that you don't care about how either are obtained so even in that regard you can't argue about odds - what base exactly is left for you to argue on?

 

I've already answered you multiple times on this exact same subject and you clearly don't understand.

 

The only point you have brought up so far that isn't relativized by my previous statement is that you dislike epic legendaries because only few get them and thus want rerolls. I in fact agree that enabling everyone to get epic legendaries would be a good thing to do, but I don't think that banning staff pokes (while some normal players roam around free with just as epic legendaries) until those rerolls exist is the right approach.

[Crokstar]

6Head

 

Again please read my posts (Which has some details with probability what does mean getting a truly epic poke for a "normal player", I did not even mention about banning staff pokes just making their IV's fair statistically (Good and one of the better ones AMONG the average epic pokes) for the rest of the players which also "tremendously" hard farm (Puts time input ingame which would not exist if lack of player). Don't call things which were not even said. Others also are not after totally banning the staff pokemons ( Read posts of other players). Man It is hard to discuss when someone is trying to insist things which does not appear. Read the arguments why we are after it and then make a sensible reply.

 

Honestly luck generated poke still isn't usually ( in major cases) as good as staff pokemon. You cannot compare these 2 pokes.

And a good PVPer is limitted by the stats, speed tiers, poke known as epics are not x6 31 IV and they do take more dmg.

Combine a good PVPer with staff pokemons and it is a sure upperhand situation comparing to a good PVPer with "normaly epic" pokes.

 

No matter how good you are a 30 speed pokemon will not outspeed 31 speed pokemon

No matter how good you are if a draco meteor 2hko's a poke the poke can switch only one time in other situations it will switch in 2 times.

No matter how good you are if your team needs a certain speed/nature/stat/HP for example Heatran and it doesn't have it then you will not have it which makes your team weaker if your idea is based on certain pokemon in the team which usually (in almost any competitive team) are the top meta pokes

And please keep in mind that staff pokes are usually (Quite obvious) the top peak meta pokes.

 

So staff poke > normal epic poke

 

The staff pokes should be epic, but they cannot be godly epic because it most likely swings the win to the staff poke user because of let's say HP ice so it cannot be walled by a certain poke.

 

Crokstar.