Jorogumo

If you are referring to the latest PRO PvP Survey, 96 out of 195 respondents found Stall to be too strong, so the percentage is closer to 50%, but I acknowledge your point. However, there are possibly other factors at play to explain that kind of response; I will not get into them here to avoid derailing the topic of this thread. I hope you can see that, even if we allowed Mega Kangaskhan, it would not punish Stall as much as other archetypes that were deemed adequately strong by the playerbase. As discussed here, Mega Sableye – the premier Mega on Stall teams – halts Mega Kangaskhan in its tracks and threatens to burn it. On top of that, Regenerator Alomomola coupled with Unaware Clefable would be able to keep passing Wishes while punishing Mega Kangaskhan with two rounds of Rocky Helmet every time that it would attack Alomomola. Realistically, the addition of a Balance breaker like Mega Kangaskhan would primarily punish... well, Balance, a playstyle that is already not in a great spot due to pressure from both ends of the spectrum. Sure, Mega Kangaskhan can be used on Balance, but what are we trying to accomplish by unbanning it? It is not a Stall breaker. Also, keep in mind that there is no shortage of Megas to use. Players usually ask for more additions – which the PvP Council has no control over – but rarely complain about not having enough Megas to choose from. Thank you for taking the time to read my post and reply to it as well. I value these PvP discussions and interactions with other players even if, sometimes, no common ground can be found in the end. I will also add that the PvP Council needs a clear majority before adopting a PvP change and, in this particular case, there is a consensus that allowing Mega Kangaskhan with Power-Up Punch is not a solution to some of the metagame's problems. I shared your proposal with other PvP Coordinators to spark a discussion because, even though I personally disagree with the suggestion and find that it would not have a positive impact on the metagame, your efforts deserve to be seen and taken seriously. I would say that the moveset used by Mega Kangaskhan vastly depends on whether you want to better its match-up against offense or defense, and so the choice of coverage options is ultimately team-reliant, but it is true that Mega Kangaskhan wants to run more moves than the ones in bold characters because it enjoys additional coverage to hit Pokémon that its STAB Body Slam or Return is ineffective against. We can note that Body Slam has a good chance of incapacitating switch-ins like Clefable or Alomomola, thus introducing an element of luck about half the time. I want to point out a contradiction that I noticed here and elsewhere about Mega Kangaskhan forcing teams to resort to Rocky Helmet, Rough Skin, Iron Barbs, and Regenerator users. If the desired effect is to weaken Stall – even though dedicated Stall teams are far from common –, then freeing a Pokémon that would result in an uptick in the usage of the decried Pokémon, like Alomomola and Clefable, sounds counterproductive. I suspect that many conflate Stall and Balance even though they are widely different. Stall wins by attrition – by slowly wearing down the opponent with hazards, status, etc., while preventing them from making progress. That is one of the ways to beat Mega Kangaskhan. You mention that the ability to break Focus Sash and Sturdy and hit Pokémon like Kyurem behind their Substitute would be beneficial. I would argue that Offense suffers from this. Currently, just to give an example, many Hyper Offense variants rely on the prevention of hazards with a suicide lead like Aerodactyl or Excadrill. Mega Lopunny is renowned for doing well against those traditional HO builds; Mega Kangaskhan also has access to Fake Out in conjunction with Power-Up Punch and Sucker Punch, as well as a respectable Speed tier that places it above almost all of the non-Mega HO picks. Mega Kangaskhan can turn Excadrill into setup fodder thanks to Power-Up Punch. It can even afford to stay in against Focus Sash Breloom because it always survives Mach Punch and has a good chance to OHKO it with Return. Obviously, it does not want to do that, but it can if absolutely necessary. If Mega Kangaskhan acquires a simple Power-Up Punch boost, for example against the suicide lead, it can OHKO some of the sturdiest Pokémon on HO, like bulky Manaphy and Azumarill, while surviving a few neutral priority hits in an effort to revenge-kill it. Dragonite survives most of the time if its Multiscale is intact and, while offensive Mega Scizor lives as well if we assume a non-Fire Punch set, Mega Kangaskhan can just Power-Up Punch again then KO it because Bullet Punch barely scratches its 105/100 physical bulk. Mega Metagross outspeeds Mega Kangaskhan but can fall to +2 Sucker Punch from full. For Mega Pinsir, it depends on the set; many players enjoy Adamant instead of Jolly for the extra boost, which can make it slower than Mega Kangaskhan if it is Jolly instead of Adamant. Jolly outspeeds Mimikyu and does not fear Blacephalon, Gengar, or any of the faster, Sucker Punch-weak options run on HO. Moreover, while your comparison with Mega Mawile has merit, Mega Kangaskhan would still outspeed or threaten to +2 priority-KO most Pokémon on standard HO. Fake Out is also an invaluable safety net against Offense. There are more offensive team structures to cover, of course – Rain offense, Trick Room offense, etc. My point is that, while it may seem like Mega Kangaskhan would help against threats like Sub Kyurem, there would be too much collateral damage. It is nowhere near as slow as some make it out to be. +2 Sucker Punch still does a number on faster Pokémon. Your point about the stale and repetitive nature of the metagame is one I can share. As you know, PvP Coordinators are very limited in what they can currently do. Releases are not something that we oversee, although we can make suggestions to the content team like any other player can. PvP changes are a possibility, but we should not shake up the metagame without a precise purpose, because doing so recklessly can lead to chaos. It might be new and different, but it could very well result in an unhealthy, less skill-based metagame, so we need to exercise caution. On the topic of Kyurem, which you mentioned: If you believe that it is broken, we should not free another potentially broken Pokémon to deal with it; instead, we should focus on the problem at hand – Kyurem. Obviously, the previous vote was too split, with a slight majority of PvP Coordinators voting to keep it unbanned, but the margin was slim enough for the Pokémon to remain on our radar and continue being discussed. It can still be banned if a majority is reached in the near or far future.

I agree with you that the double complex ban should be revisited, but not with a simplification that would not resolve the issue. Mega Kangaskhan sees virtually no usage and is not particularly viable at the moment, which means that the effort of going through a double complex ban to preserve Kangaskhanite is just not worth it. I would favor the full-on ban of Kangaskhanite. I think you are underselling the combination of Power-Up Punch and Parental Bond. Power-Up Punch in conjunction with a Scrappy Ability prior to the Mega Evolution of Kangaskhan guarantees a +1 Atk boost against any of the usual switch-ins, including the Ghost types that you mentioned, and a +2 Atk boost if Kangaskhan is Mega Evolved. Even without Seismic Toss, that kind of power is sufficient to drop or at least heavily dent some of the sturdiest premier walls in the metagame: 252+ Atk Parental Bond Kangaskhan-Mega Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 195-230 (49.4 - 58.3%) -- 67.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery +2 252+ Atk Parental Bond Kangaskhan-Mega Return vs. 252 HP / 184+ Def Zapdos: 378-445 (98.4 - 115.8%) -- 95.7% chance to OHKO +2 252+ Atk Parental Bond Kangaskhan-Mega Fire Punch vs. 248 HP / 164+ Def Skarmory: 264-312 (79.2 - 93.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO +2 252+ Atk Parental Bond Kangaskhan-Mega Return vs. 248 HP / 216+ Def Alomomola: 382-450 (71.6 - 84.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery +2 252+ Atk Parental Bond Kangaskhan-Mega Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 298-353 (75.6 - 89.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO Another issue with the above calculations is how many of the typical defensive Mega Kangaskhan switch-ins are slower and unable to KO it back in one hit, which means that they will likely fall. As for the four examples that you mentioned, only one of them is usually foolproof: Mega Sableye. Aegislash and Annihilape certainly qualify as checks, but they can lose under specific circumstances or after minimal damage. Overall, the other Pokémon that you mentioned are all prone to Scrappy Power-Up Punch on the switch and do not fare particularly well against Mega Kangaskhan, which outspeeds them and can KO them after hazards or prior chip: 252+ Atk Kangaskhan Power-Up Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Both: 58-70 (17.9 - 21.6%) -- possible 7HKO 252+ Atk Parental Bond Kangaskhan-Mega Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Both: 218-258 (67.2 - 79.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery +1 252+ Atk Parental Bond Kangaskhan-Mega Fire Punch vs. 88 HP / 0 Def Mawile-Mega: 270-320 (102.6 - 121.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO 252+ Atk Kangaskhan Power-Up Punch vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Annihilape: 47-56 (11.1 - 13.3%) -- possibly the worst move ever +1 252+ Atk Parental Bond Kangaskhan-Mega Earthquake vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Annihilape: 262-310 (62.2 - 73.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery 252+ Atk Kangaskhan Return vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Annihilape: 178-210 (42.2 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery Admittedly, while this may be niche, Earthquake is not a bad move to run on Mega Kangaskhan to ease prediction against many of the Pokémon you named, like Aegislash and Mega Mawile, as well as Heatran. Body Slam, which you mentioned, is another serious option to consider, as it has a 51% chance to paralyze the opposing Pokémon in conjunction with Parental Bond. This introduces luck into the equation. So, while the addition of some new Pokémon helps against Mega Kangaskhan, because it makes it more prediction-reliant and can give it a hard time to fit all the moves it would otherwise want to run, it does not mean that it will be a healthy addition to an already ailing metagame. Moreover, forcing an influx of dedicated Mega Kangashan checks when it is difficult enough as is to prepare for other match-ups would put an unnecessary strain on the teambuilder. Another point in favor of Mega Kagaskhan that I am willing to concede is the abundance of Rocky Helmet, Iron Barbs, and Rough Skin users, all of which can give Mega Kangaskhan a rough time and limit its longevity throughout a match. It is also decidedly prone to hazards and status, but it enjoys being paired up with Wish or Healing Wish users that can revitalize it. In the worst-case scenario, Mega Kangaskhan will trade its life for its check – and going 1 for 1 in a bad situation is far from convincing proof that the Pokémon is otherwise healthy. Most of the arguments presented so far focus on Mega Kangaskhan against defensive and/or slower teams, but its match-up against offense is anything but undesirable. It can run Fake Out and Sucker Punch, bypass Sturdy and Focus Sash, is defensively bulky enough to survive at least two neutral priority hits thanks to its 105/100/100 defenses, and does enough damage to KO several offensive Pokémon after minimal chip. What it lacks in Speed in comparison with Mega Lopunny, it makes up for in terms of power and bulk. In short, while your Trick Room teams might be able to deal with Mega Kangaskhan – and its 5 teammates, which are often omitted from these discussions in a vacuum –, other archetypes would struggle considerably. I am not talking about a single playstyle suffering from the presence of Mega Kangaskhan; I am referring to many. No point in entertaining the thought of unbanning both Seismic Toss and Power-Up Punch if either of the two could suffice to break the Pokémon. Ultimately, while we can sit here and argue back and forth about whether it would be broken with just Power-Up Punch, why would we even take the risk of unleashing a stronger Mega Kangaskhan with no guarantee that it will be manageable? What would be its positive contribution to the metagame in its current state?

PRO PvP Survey Results (March 2025) Hello, everyone! Last week, the PvP Coordinator team released a survey in an effort to gauge how the community feels about the current metagame, as well as what changes can be made to improve the overall experience and satisfaction of the PvP playerbase. The survey results are informal but can constitute a starting point for some PvP discussion. While they are mostly indicative, they can, in some cases, invite to follow or avoid a certain course of action. After 211 total responses, here are the PRO PvP Survey results: First question: On a scale of 1 to 10, how much do you enjoy the current metagame? (Read: how fun is it to play?) There were 209 responses to this question and the average response was 6.64/10, meaning that most players are somewhat enjoying the metagame. However, we must also acknowledge that there is room for improvement and that the average response is far from satisfactory. Second question: Do you agree with the statement that the recent rework of PvP rewards has increased your satisfaction with the PvP content offered in PRO? There were 209 responses to this question. The majority of players – 110 (52.6%), to be exact – strongly agreed with the statement, while 83 players (39.7%) somewhat agreed with it. Only 11 respondents (5.3%) somewhat disagreed with the statement, whereas a mere 5 (2.4%) strongly disagreed with it. Overall, 92.3% of participants (193 out of 209) seem to be more satisfied with PvP following the recent rework of PvP rewards. Third question: What are some changes you would like to see implemented in regards to the recent PvP rework? There were 155 replies. We have read every single one of them but cannot include them all. We will thus limit the following summary to the suggestions that were at least made a few times. Players would like a wider variety of PvP Chest rewards, including new TMs, as well as fewer low-value prizes and better drop rates in general. There were several complaints about the way that the reward system currently works. Some players want to shorten the duration of the battle timer. Others eagerly await the merge of both servers and the implementation of the PvP Token Shop. There were a few suggestions to make more PvP statistics and Pokémon data publicly available. Implementing some QoL changes, like showing remaining weather or Trick Room turns, would be appreciated by many. While this question mainly concerned the recent PvP rework, there were some complaints about the metagame being unhealthy and/or unenjoyable. There were a few recommendations for additional tiers/queues. Fourth question: On a scale of 1 to 10, how healthy do you find the current metagame? (1 being extremely unhealthy and 10 being extremely healthy) There were 207 responses to this question and the average response was 6.17/10. This means that, although a sizable portion of players may disagree, most players find the current metagame to be somewhat healthy. Nonetheless, these results seem to encourage considering some sort of action to improve the state of the metagame. Fifth question: How do you feel about the strength of the following archetypes in the current metagame? Hyper Offense: There were 195 assessments. According to 124 of them, Hyper Offense is appropriately strong in the current metagame. 44 players find it to be too strong, whereas only 27 deem it to be too weak. Overall, the playerbase is content with the state of Hyper Offense in the current metagame. Bulky Offense: There were 193 assessments. According to 133 of them, Bulky Offense is appropriately strong in the current metagame. 38 players find it to be too strong, whereas only 22 deem it to be too weak. Overall, the playerbase is content with the state of Bulky Offense in the current metagame. Balance: There were 193 assessments. According to 146 of them, Balance is appropriately strong in the current metagame. 28 players find it to be too weak, while only 19 think that it is too strong. Overall, the playerbase is content with the state of Balance in the current metagame. Stall: There were 195 assessments. According to 96 of them, Stall is too strong in the current metagame. 64 players find it to be adequately strong, whereas 35 deem it to be too weak. Overall, a large portion of the playerbase is discontented with the state of Stall, with 49.2% of respondents considering the playstyle to be potentially problematic in the current metagame. Rain: There were 194 assessments. According to 123 of them, Rain is appropriately strong in the current metagame. 41 players find it to be too weak, while 30 deem it too strong. Overall, the playerbase is content with the state of Rain in the current metagame. Sun: There were 192 assessments. According to 109 of them, Sun is appropriately strong in the current metagame. However, 67 players find it to be too weak, while only 16 deem it too strong. Overall, the playerbase is content with the state of Sun, but a substantial number of players (34.9%) think that the playstyle is too weak in the current metagame. Sand: There were 192 assessments. According to 97 of them, Sand is appropriately strong in the current metagame. However, 86 players find it to be too weak, while only 9 deem it too strong. Overall, the playerbase is content with the state of Sand, but a substantial number of players (44.8%) think that the playstyle is too weak in the current metagame. Snow (or Veil): There were 193 assessments. According to 100 of them, Snow (or Veil) is appropriately strong in the current metagame. However, 77 players find it to be too weak, while only 16 deem it too strong. Overall, the playerbase is content with the state of Snow (or Veil), but a substantial number of players (39.9%) think that the playstyle is too weak in the current metagame. Trick Room: There were 194 assessments. According to 96 of them, Trick Room is appropriately strong in the current metagame. 54 players find it to be too strong, whereas 44 deem it to be too weak. Overall, the playerbase is content with the state of Trick Room in the current metagame. The three archetypes that players found to be the strongest in the current metagame are, in decreasing order of perceived strength, Stall, Trick Room, and Hyper Offense. The three archetypes that players found to be the weakest in the current metagame are, in decreasing order of perceived weakness, Sand, Snow (or Veil), and Sun. Sixth question: Do you agree with the statement that there are too many offensive threats and not enough defensive answers? There were 202 responses to this question. 69 players (34.2%) somewhat agreed with the statement, while 46 (22.8%) strongly agreed with it. 53 players (26.2%) somewhat disagreed with the statement, whereas only 34 (16.8%) strongly disagreed with it. Overall, 115 players (57% of respondents) agreed either partially or completely with the statement that there may be too many offensive threats and not enough defensive answers. Seventh question: Do you agree with the statement that the current offensive trends promote an unhealthy, matchup-fishy metagame? (Read: a metagame where a large amount of games are decided at team preview regardless of player skill) There were 198 responses to this question. 68 players (34.3%) somewhat agreed with the statement, while 57 (28.8%) strongly agreed with it. 50 players (25.3%) somewhat disagreed with the statement, whereas only 23 (11.6%) strongly disagreed with it. Overall, 125 out of 198 players (63.1% of respondents) agreed either partially or completely with the statement that the current offensive trends promote an unhealthy, matchup-fishy metagame. Based on the answers to this question and the previous one, a majority of players find that the wide array of offensive options and builds may minimize the impact of skillful play on the outcome of a given match. Eighth question: Do you believe that the PvP Council should take tiering action against something (i.e., a Pokémon) to improve the state of the metagame? There were 196 responses to this question. A majority of players – 107 (54.6%), to be exact – believe that the PvP Council should take tiering action against something (i.e., a Pokémon) to improve the state of the metagame, while 24 players (12.2%) do not believe so. However, there is substantial uncertainty, with 65 respondents (33.2%) being unsure as to whether the PvP Council should act at all. As a reminder, the PvP Coordinator team can only act on currently released features and can – at best – suggest new releases on the basis of the improvement of the metagame. Ninth question: On a scale of 1 to 5, how do you feel about Annihilape in the current metagame? (1 being not broken and 5 being broken) There were 198 responses to this question and the average response was 3.01/5. Most respondents seem to be on the fence. Tenth question: On a scale of 1 to 5, how do you feel about Breloom in the current metagame? (1 being not broken and 5 being broken) There were 198 responses to this question and the average response was 2.63/5. Most respondents find that Breloom is unproblematic in the current metagame. Eleventh question: On a scale of 1 to 5, how do you feel about Clefable in the current metagame? (1 being not broken and 5 being broken) There were 201 responses to this question and the average response was 3.3/5. Most respondents find that Clefable is potentially problematic in the current metagame. Twelfth question: On a scale of 1 to 5, how do you feel about Kyurem in the current metagame? (1 being not broken and 5 being broken) There were 202 responses to this question and the average response was 3.46/5. Most respondents find that Kyurem is potentially problematic in the current metagame. Thirteenth question: On a scale of 1 to 5, how do you feel about Kyurem-Black in the current metagame? (1 being not broken and 5 being broken) There were 202 responses to this question and the average response was 3.27/5. Most respondents find that Kyurem-Black is potentially problematic in the current metagame. Fourteenth question: On a scale of 1 to 5, how do you feel about Mega Mawile in the current metagame? (1 being not broken and 5 being broken) There were 201 responses to this question and the average response was 3.09/5. Most respondents seem to be on the fence. Fifteenth question: On a scale of 1 to 5, how do you feel about Mega Metagross in the current metagame? (1 being not broken and 5 being broken) There were 201 responses to this question and the average response was 2.87/5. Most respondents seem to be on the fence. Sixteenth question: On a scale of 1 to 5, how do you feel about Mega Lopunny in the current metagame? (1 being not broken and 5 being broken) There were 201 responses to this question and the average response was 3.04/5. Most respondents seem to be on the fence. Seventeenth question: Which of the following, if any, would be positive additions to the metagame, in your view? (Select all that apply.) There were 197 responses to this question. The most picked Pokémon is Kartana with 104 votes (52.8% of the responses). The second most picked Pokémon is Toxapex with 102 votes (51.8% of the responses). The third most picked Pokémon is Corviknight with 101 votes (51.3% of the responses). The fourth most picked Pokémon is Slowking-Galar with 96 votes (48.7% of the responses). There is a noticeable drop in votes between the four most picked Pokémon and others. In fifth place is Magearna, with 68 votes (34.5% of the responses). In sixth place is Speed Boost Blaziken, with 56 votes (28.4% of the responses). In seventh place is Darkrai, with 50 votes (25.4% of the responses). In eighth place is Melmetal, with 48 votes (24.4% of the responses). In ninth place is Genesect, with 43 votes (21.8% of the responses). In tenth place is Sheer Force Landorus, with 36 votes (18.3% of the responses). 14 respondents (7.1% of the votes) selected “None of the above.” There were several other suggestions made as additional comments, with the most recurring pick being the guardian deities. Tapu Bulu, Tapu Fini, Tapu Koko, and Tapu Lele are a quartet of Legendary Pokémon and, as is the case with most Legendary Pokémon in PRO, there are usually specific release plans in place, hence the omission of the guardian deities from the poll options. As a reminder, the PvP Coordinator team can only act on currently released features and can – at best – suggest new releases on the basis of the aforementioned suggestions. Any final thoughts, comments, suggestions or concerns? There were 140 replies. We have read every single one of them but cannot include them all. We will thus limit the following summary to the points that were at least mentioned a few times. Ban Stall, I guess. Many other ban suggestions. While players made conflicting observations, one point remained: the current metagame does not feel very balanced; some archetypes fare better than others. More TMs and items – mainly Heavy-Duty Boots –, as well as missing Pokémon, need to be released as soon as possible. Too much repetition and team similarity in the current metagame. A rework of the Reconnect feature. More PvP formats. Once again, thank you so much for participating in this PRO PvP Survey. If there is anything else not mentioned in the results, you may bring it up in this thread. Of course, if you wish to discuss any of the PRO PvP Survey results, you may also do so here.

Reserved.

PRO PvP Speed Tiers Speed stats are an important defining characteristic of each Pokémon species. They determine the order of moves made by Pokémon during a battle. Assuming an equal level of priority, Pokémon with a higher Speed stat at the start of any given turn will make a move before those with lower Speed. In the case of a Speed tie, which occurs when two Pokémon have the same Speed, one of them will randomly go first. Speed-altering moves, like Dragon Dance or Hammer Arm, only start affecting a Pokémon’s Speed on the following turn. You should first identify the maximum Speed of the Pokémon of your choice. You must take into account its Speed IVs and, based on the Pokémon that you want it to outspeed, distribute its EVs accordingly. For example, if your Jolly Gliscor has 31 Speed IVs, you can give it 112 EVs to reach 279 Speed and outspeed any non-Choice Scarf Timid Heatran with max Speed IVs and EVs (i.e., 278 Speed). If your Jolly Gliscor only has 26 IVs, you can give it 132 Speed EVs to achieve the same feat. When you do this, it is best to assume perfect IVs for opposing Pokémon. This thread will only provide the Speed stats of currently viable Pokémon, so it will not cover every single Pokémon in the game, since it primarily is a PvP-focused resource. The updated Viability Rankings can be found here. For individual PvP sets for each viable Pokémon, you may check out this resource. Both threads will continue to be updated in the future with more accurate and relevant information. Since there are far too many viable Speed tiers and Pokémon sets, some will understandably be missing from the list. For example, you may encounter a Bold Volcarona with 240 or 241 Speed or a Pokémon not even mentioned in this thread. Similarly, you may also run into a Zapdos with an unlisted Speed number. Many players do not have perfect Speed IVs on all their Pokémon and some opt for unusual or custom EV spreads tailored according to the needs of their teams. The following Speed tier list is separated into six different tiers: Pokémon with 500+ Speed, those with 400+ Speed, those with 300+ Speed, those with 200+ Speed, those with 100+ Speed, and those with less than 100 Speed. The items within each tier are arranged in descending order, that is, from the fastest Pokémon to the slowest. In some cases, specific scenarios or boosts are taken into account. For example, Trace Mega Alakazam using its ability to copy Sand Rush or Swift Swim becomes twice as fast as normal when the relevant weather is up. Only 2 additional Speed stages will be counted at most for Pokémon that can boost their own Speed thanks to Quiver Dance, Dragon Dance, Beast Boost, etc. Tier 0: 500 and above Pokémon Base Nature EVs IVs Stage Speed Mega Alakazam 150 Positive 252 31 +2 876 Mega Alakazam 150 Neutral 252 31 +2 798 Ribombee 124 Positive 252 31 +2 762 Hawlucha 118 Positive 252 31 +2 736 Mega Diancie 110 Positive 252 31 +2 700 Mega Metagross 110 Positive 252 31 +2 700 Hawlucha 118 Neutral 252 31 +2 670 Thundurus-Therian 101 Positive 252 31 +2 662 Mega Charizard X 100 Positive 252 31 +2 656 Volcarona 100 Positive 252 31 +2 656 Mega Diancie 110 Neutral 252 31 +2 638 Mega Metagross 110 Neutral 252 31 +2 638 Landorus-Therian 91 Positive 252 31 +2 618 Excadrill 88 Positive 252 31 +2 604 Thundurus-Therian 101 Neutral 252 31 +2 602 Mega Charizard X 100 Neutral 252 31 +2 598 Volcarona 100 Neutral 252 31 +2 598 Kommo-o 85 Positive 252 31 +2 590 Gyarados 81 Positive 252 31 +2 574 Mega Gyarados 81 Positive 252 31 +2 574 Ribombee 124 Positive 252 31 +1 571 Dragonite 80 Positive 252 31 +2 568 Mega Altaria 80 Positive 252 31 +2 568 Greninja 122 Positive 252 31 +1 565 Landorus-Therian 91 Neutral 252 31 +2 562 Excadrill 88 Neutral 252 31 +2 550 Kingdra 85 Neutral 252 31 +2 538 Serperior 113 Positive 252 31 +1 535 Mega Tyranitar 71 Positive 252 31 +2 530 Gengar 110 Positive 252 31 +1 525 Latias 110 Positive 252 31 +1 525 Latios 110 Positive 252 31 +1 525 Cloyster 70 Positive 252 31 +2 524 Mega Swampert 70 Positive 252 31 +2 524 Keldeo 108 Positive 252 31 +1 519 Dragonite 80 Neutral 252 31 +2 518 Mega Altaria 80 Neutral 252 31 +2 518 Venusaur 80 Neutral 252 31 +2 518 Blacephalon 107 Positive 252 31 +1 516 Venusaur (HP Fire) 80 Neutral 252 30 +2 516 Tier 1: 400-499 Pokémon Base Nature EVs IVs Stage Speed Garchomp 102 Positive 252 31 +1 499 Manaphy 100 Positive 252 31 +1 492 Mega Charizard X 100 Positive 252 31 +1 492 Jirachi 100 Positive 252 31 +1 492 Volcarona 100 Positive 252 31 +1 492 Victini 100 Positive 252 31 +1 492 Hydreigon 98 Positive 252 31 +1 486 Cloyster 70 Neutral 252 31 +2 478 Mega Swampert 70 Neutral 252 31 +2 478 Landorus-Therian 91 Positive 252 31 +1 463 Annihilape 90 Positive 252 31 +1 459 Porygon-Z 90 Positive 252 31 +1 459 Excadrill 88 Positive 252 31 +1 453 Manaphy 100 Neutral 252 31 +1 448 Mega Charizard X 100 Neutral 252 31 +1 448 Volcarona 100 Neutral 252 31 +1 448 Rotom-Wash 86 Positive 252 31 +1 447 Kommo-o 85 Positive 252 31 +1 442 Mega Aerodactyl 150 Positive 252 31 +0 438 Mega Alakazam 150 Positive 252 31 +0 438 Gyarados 81 Positive 252 31 +1 430 Mega Gyarados 81 Positive 252 31 +1 430 Dragonite 80 Positive 252 31 +1 426 Mega Altaria 80 Positive 252 31 +1 426 Togekiss 80 Positive 252 31 +1 426 Diggersby 78 Positive 252 31 +1 420 Heatran 77 Positive 252 31 +1 417 Mega Altaria 80 Neutral 28 31 +2 406 Mega Lopunny 135 Positive 252 31 +0 405 Mega Manectric 135 Positive 252 31 +0 405 Tier 2: 300-399 Pokémon Base Nature EVs IVs Stage Speed Mega Alakazam 150 Neutral 252 31 +0 399 Mega Tyranitar 71 Positive 252 31 +1 397 Dragonite 80 Neutral 252 31 +1 388 Mega Altaria 80 Neutral 252 31 +1 388 Weavile 125 Positive 252 31 +0 383 Ribombee 124 Positive 252 31 +0 381 Greninja 122 Positive 252 31 +0 377 Tornadus-Therian 121 Positive 252 31 +0 375 Mega Pidgeot 121 Positive 252 31 +0 375 Alakazam 120 Positive 252 31 +0 372 Hawlucha 118 Positive 252 31 +0 368 Tyranitar 61 Positive 252 31 +1 364 Azelf 115 Positive 252 31 +0 361 Starmie 115 Positive 252 31 +0 361 Magnezone (HP Fire) 60 Positive 252 30 +1 358 Serperior 113 Positive 252 31 +0 357 Serperior (HP Fire) 113 Positive 252 30 +0 356 Thundurus-Incarnate 111 Positive 252 31 +0 353 Gengar 110 Positive 252 31 +0 350 Latias 110 Positive 252 31 +0 350 Latios 110 Positive 252 31 +0 350 Mega Diancie 110 Positive 252 31 +0 350 Mega Gallade 110 Positive 252 31 +0 350 Mega Latias 110 Positive 252 31 +0 350 Mega Latios 110 Positive 252 31 +0 350 Mega Metagross 110 Positive 252 31 +0 350 Alolan Ninetales 109 Positive 252 31 +0 348 Keldeo 108 Positive 252 31 +0 346 Infernape 108 Positive 252 31 +0 346 Blacephalon 107 Positive 252 31 +0 344 Mega Pinsir 105 Positive 252 31 +0 339 Hawlucha 118 Neutral 252 31 +0 335 Garchomp 102 Positive 252 31 +0 333 Thundurus-Therian 101 Positive 252 31 +0 331 Baby XD001 100 Positive 252 31 +0 328 Jirachi 100 Positive 252 31 +0 328 Manaphy 100 Positive 252 31 +0 328 Mega Charizard X 100 Positive 252 31 +0 328 Mega Charizard Y 100 Positive 252 31 +0 328 Mega Gardevoir 100 Positive 252 31 +0 328 Mega Medicham 100 Positive 252 31 +0 328 Mew 100 Positive 252 31 +0 328 Volcarona 100 Positive 252 31 +0 328 Victini 100 Positive 252 31 +0 328 Zapdos 100 Positive 252 31 +0 328 Hydreigon 98 Positive 252 31 +0 324 Mimikyu 96 Positive 252 31 +0 320 Mega Diancie 110 Neutral 252 31 +0 319 Mega Metagross 110 Neutral 252 31 +0 319 Gliscor 95 Positive 252 31 +0 317 Kyurem 95 Positive 252 31 +0 317 Kyurem-Black 95 Positive 252 31 +0 317 Mega Garchomp 92 Positive 252 31 +0 311 Landorus-Therian 91 Positive 252 31 +0 309 Mega Pinsir 105 Neutral 252 31 +0 309 Annihilape 90 Positive 252 31 +0 306 Porygon-Z 90 Positive 252 31 +0 306 Mega Altaria 80 Neutral 28 31 +1 304 Excadrill 88 Positive 252 31 +0 302 Thundurus-Therian 101 Neutral 252 31 +0 301 Tier 3: 200-299 Pokémon Base Nature EVs IVs Stage Speed Baby XD001 100 Neutral 252 31 +0 299 Manaphy 100 Neutral 252 31 +0 299 Mega Charizard X 100 Neutral 252 31 +0 299 Mega Charizard Y 100 Neutral 252 31 +0 299 Mega Gardevoir 100 Neutral 252 31 +0 299 Mega Medicham 100 Neutral 252 31 +0 299 Volcarona 100 Neutral 252 31 +0 299 Victini 100 Neutral 252 31 +0 299 Rotom-Wash 86 Positive 252 31 +0 298 Gliscor 95 Positive 176 31 +0 297 Hydreigon 98 Neutral 252 31 +0 295 Kommo-o 85 Positive 252 31 +0 295 Nidoking 85 Positive 252 31 +0 295 Suicune 85 Positive 252 31 +0 295 Mimikyu 96 Neutral 252 31 +0 291 Kyurem 95 Neutral 252 31 +0 289 Kyurem-Black 95 Neutral 252 31 +0 289 Gyarados 81 Positive 252 31 +0 287 Mega Gyarados 81 Positive 252 31 +0 287 Suicune 85 Positive 216 31 +0 286 Dragonite 80 Positive 252 31 +0 284 Hoopa-Unbound 80 Positive 252 31 +0 284 Mamoswine 80 Positive 252 31 +0 284 Mega Altaria 80 Positive 252 31 +0 284 Togekiss 80 Positive 252 31 +0 284 Mega Garchomp 92 Neutral 252 31 +0 283 Landorus-Therian 91 Neutral 252 31 +0 281 Diggersby 78 Positive 252 31 +0 280 Annihilape 90 Neutral 252 31 +0 279 Gliscor 95 Positive 112 31 +0 279 Heatran 77 Positive 252 31 +0 278 Excadrill 88 Neutral 252 31 +0 275 Mega Heracross 75 Positive 252 31 +0 273 Mega Scizor 75 Positive 252 31 +0 273 Kingdra 85 Neutral 252 31 +0 269 Mega Tyranitar 71 Positive 252 31 +0 265 Tentacruel 100 Positive 16 31 +0 264 Togekiss 80 Positive 176 31 +0 264 Garchomp 102 Neutral 92 31 +0 263 Bisharp 70 Positive 252 31 +0 262 Breloom 70 Positive 252 31 +0 262 Cloyster 70 Positive 252 31 +0 262 Mega Swampert 70 Positive 252 31 +0 262 Volcanion 70 Positive 252 31 +0 262 Dragonite 80 Neutral 252 31 +0 259 Hoopa-Unbound 80 Neutral 252 31 +0 259 Mamoswine 80 Neutral 252 31 +0 259 Mega Altaria 80 Neutral 252 31 +0 259 Venusaur 80 Neutral 252 31 +2 259 Venusaur (HP Fire) 80 Neutral 252 30 +0 258 Diggersby 78 Neutral 252 31 +0 255 Heatran 77 Neutral 252 31 +0 253 Pelipper 65 Positive 252 31 +0 251 Scizor 65 Positive 252 31 +0 251 Mega Heracross 75 Neutral 252 31 +0 249 Mega Scizor 75 Neutral 252 31 +0 249 Garchomp 102 Neutral 20 31 +0 245 Gliscor 95 Neutral 72 31 +0 244 Jirachi 100 Neutral 32 31 +0 244 Landorus-Therian 91 Neutral 104 31 +0 244 Mew 100 Neutral 32 31 +0 244 Zapdos 100 Neutral 32 31 +0 244 Tyranitar 61 Positive 252 31 +0 243 Manaphy 100 Neutral 20 31 +0 241 Tentacruel 100 Neutral 20 31 +0 241 Aegislash 60 Positive 252 31 +0 240 Annihilape 90 Neutral 96 31 +0 240 Clefable 60 Positive 252 31 +0 240 Gliscor 95 Neutral 56 31 +0 240 Kommo-o 85 Neutral 136 31 +0 240 Zapdos 100 Neutral 16 31 +0 240 Bisharp 70 Neutral 252 31 +0 239 Breloom 70 Neutral 252 31 +0 239 Cloyster 70 Neutral 252 31 +0 239 Magnezone (HP Fire) 60 Positive 252 30 +0 239 Mega Swampert 70 Neutral 252 31 +0 239 Volcanion 70 Neutral 252 31 +0 239 Crawdaunt 55 Positive 252 31 +0 229 Pelipper 65 Neutral 252 31 +0 229 Scizor 65 Neutral 252 31 +0 229 Excadrill 88 Neutral 40 31 +0 222 Landorus-Therian 91 Neutral 16 31 +0 222 Mega Heracross 75 Neutral 144 31 +0 222 Mega Scizor 75 Neutral 144 31 +0 222 Rotom-Wash 86 Neutral 56 31 +0 222 Tyranitar 61 Neutral 252 31 +0 221 Annihilape 90 Neutral 16 31 +0 220 Bisharp 70 Neutral 176 31 +0 220 Aegislash 60 Neutral 252 31 +0 219 Clefable 60 Neutral 252 31 +0 219 Magnezone (HP Fire) 60 Neutral 252 30 +0 218 Azumarill 50 Positive 252 31 +0 218 Diancie 50 Positive 252 31 +0 218 Landorus-Therian 91 Neutral 0 31 +0 218 Annihilape 90 Neutral 0 31 +0 216 Heatran 77 Neutral 80 31 +0 210 Crawdaunt 55 Neutral 252 31 +0 209 Rotom-Wash 86 Neutral 0 31 +0 208 Kommo-o 85 Neutral 0 31 +0 206 Suicune 85 Neutral 0 31 +0 206 Mega Altaria 80 Neutral 28 31 +0 203 Bisharp 70 Neutral 96 31 +0 200 Clefable 60 Neutral 176 31 +0 200 Mega Altaria 80 Neutral 16 31 +0 200 Mega Scizor 75 Neutral 56 31 +0 200 Mega Tyranitar 71 Neutral 88 31 +0 200 Mega Venusaur (HP Fire) 80 Neutral 20 30 +0 200 Tyranitar 61 Neutral 168 31 +0 200 Tier 4: 100-199 Pokémon Base Nature EVs IVs Stage Speed Azumarill 50 Neutral 252 31 +0 199 Mega Mawile 50 Neutral 252 31 +0 199 Togekiss 80 Neutral 0 31 +0 196 Clefable 60 Neutral 136 31 +0 190 Heatran 77 Neutral 0 31 +0 190 Conkeldurr 45 Neutral 252 31 +0 189 Klefki 75 Neutral 0 31 +0 186 Mega Scizor 75 Neutral 0 31 +0 186 Seismitoad 74 Neutral 0 31 +0 184 Azumarill 50 Neutral 164 31 +0 177 Bisharp 70 Neutral 4 31 +0 177 Mega Mawile 50 Neutral 164 31 +0 177 Tyranitar 61 Neutral 76 31 +0 177 Bisharp 70 Neutral 0 31 +0 176 Mantine 70 Neutral 0 31 +0 176 Skarmory 70 Neutral 0 31 +0 176 Volcanion 70 Neutral 0 31 +0 176 Uxie 95 Negative 0 01 +0 176 Jellicent 60 Neutral 44 31 +0 167 Alomomola 65 Neutral 0 31 +0 166 Pelipper 65 Neutral 0 31 +0 166 Scizor 65 Neutral 0 31 +0 166 Seismitoad 74 Negative 0 31 +0 165 Aegislash 60 Neutral 16 31 +0 160 Clefable 60 Neutral 16 31 +0 160 Conkeldurr 45 Neutral 136 31 +0 160 Tyranitar 61 Neutral 0 31 +0 158 Cresselia 85 Negative 0 01 +0 158 Aegislash 60 Neutral 0 31 +0 156 Clefable 60 Neutral 0 31 +0 156 Jellicent 60 Neutral 0 31 +0 156 Porygon2 60 Neutral 0 31 +0 156 Blissey 55 Neutral 0 31 +0 146 Tyranitar 61 Negative 0 31 +0 142 Mega Heracross 75 Negative 0 01 +0 140 Alolan Muk 50 Neutral 0 31 +0 136 Azumarill 50 Neutral 0 31 +0 136 Mega Mawile 50 Neutral 0 31 +0 136 Chansey 50 Neutral 0 31 +0 136 Sableye 50 Neutral 0 31 +0 136 Hippowdon 47 Neutral 0 31 +0 130 Alomomola 65 Negative 0 01 +0 122 Tangrowth 50 Negative 0 31 +0 122 Gastrodon 39 Neutral 0 31 +0 114 Aegislash 60 Negative 0 01 +0 113 Porygon2 60 Negative 0 01 +0 113 Crawdaunt 55 Negative 0 01 +0 104 Gastrodon 39 Negative 0 31 +0 102 Tier 5: 99 and below Pokémon Base Nature EVs IVs Stage Speed Cofagrigus 30 Neutral 0 31 +0 96 Mega Slowbro 30 Neutral 0 31 +0 96 Reuniclus 30 Neutral 0 31 +0 96 Slowbro 30 Neutral 0 31 +0 96 Slowking 30 Neutral 0 31 +0 96 Amoonguss (HP Fire) 30 Neutral 0 30 +0 95 Mega Mawile 50 Negative 0 01 +0 95 Quagsire 35 Negative 0 31 +0 95 Alolan Marowak 45 Negative 0 01 +0 86 Amoonguss (HP Fire) 30 Negative 0 30 +0 85 Ferrothorn 20 Neutral 0 31 +0 76 Mega Sableye 20 Neutral 0 31 +0 76 Torkoal 20 Neutral 0 31 +0 76 Cofagrigus 30 Negative 0 01 +0 59 Slowbro 30 Negative 0 01 +0 59 Slowking 30 Negative 0 01 +0 59 Reuniclus 30 Negative 0 01 +0 59 Ferrothorn 20 Negative 0 01 +0 41

The PvP Coordinator team has discussed some more changes to the Viability Rankings based on latest metagame trends and developments.  Rises: Bisharp: A → A+ A staple on BO and HO teams, Bisharp pairs well with other offensive threats, like Mega Lopunny and Mega Pinsir, to overwhelm physically defensive Pokémon that it would otherwise struggle to overcome by itself, such as Zapdos and Skarmory. It is also a top-tier teammate for Pokémon that appreciate the removal of commonplace walls like Clefable, the Slow twins, Chansey, and more.  Zapdos: A → A+ In a metagame where it can check some of the most dangerous offensive threats, like Mega Lopunny, Bisharp, Tornadus-T, Mega Scizor, Mega Pinsir, and much more, Zapdos fits on many offensive, balanced, and defensive builds where it can provide much-needed Defog support, the possibility of chipping down physical assailants with Rocky Helmet, the chance to paralyze them with Static, and decent offensive pressure and momentum even without running HP Ice, thanks to Heat Wave, Hurricane, and Volt Switch.  Kyurem-B: A- → A Kyurem-B is a strong wallbreaker with a lot of set diversity and the ability to blow past some would-be checks, like Clefable and Ferrothorn, thanks to Icium Z. While it certainly has its own drawbacks, like its lackluster speed and vulnerability to Stealth Rock, its bulk allows it to stomach a hit and retaliate even in an offensively leaning metagame.  Slowbro: B+ → A- Slowbro finally joins its specially defensive twin in the A ranks as a strong answer to some of the most prevalent offensive Pokémon in the tier: Mega Lopunny, Mega Metagross, Keldeo, and more. Thanks to Rocky Helmet in conjunction with Teleport, it can swiftly switch into a hit then generate momentum and recover health back with Regenerator. This makes Slowbro an option on more teams than just defensive and balanced structures.  Breloom: B- → B Breloom is a valuable member of specific HO builds that appreciate its priority and ability to incapacitate an opposing Pokémon thanks to Spore and the safety net of Focus Sash. It also performs well against other offensive staples, like Bisharp, Mega Lopunny, and Azumarill just to name a few.  Mega Pinsir: B- → B Just like Breloom, Mega Pinsir finds home on some of the HO builds that heavily benefit from its unique offensive coverage, priority, and ability to overwhelm physical checks with the help of its teammates.  Cresselia: C → C+ Porygon2: C- → C+ Uxie: C- → C+ Trick Room carves itself a notable niche in an offensively oriented metagame where it can turn the speed of opposing HO teams into a disadvantage. The addition of Ursaluna also means that TR builds now gain another valuable member that appreciates common setters like Cresselia, Porygon2, and Uxie.  Drops: Kyurem: S → A+ While Kyurem continues to be a force to be reckoned with in this metagame and can excel against specific team structures, it is decidedly less effective into most of the increasingly common offensive builds.  Mega Medicham: A- → B Mega Medicham continues to struggle in this metagame because wallbreaking requires the widespread presence of walls it can effectively break with its coverage. However, it is quite prediction-reliant against structures that revolve around the likes of Clefable, Landorus-T, Zapdos, the Slow twins, etc. Mega Medicham also suffers from 4MSS (4 Moveslot Syndrome) and must pick between Zen Headbutt, Thunder Punch, and Bullet Punch to round out its coverage. Even then, it is left completely walled by Pokémon like Mega Sableye and Aegislash, the latter of which it can only severely damage with Fire Punch, which it simply cannot afford to run. Pelipper: B+ → C+ Mega Swampert: B+ → C+ Kingdra: B- → C In what is the steepest, longest overdue drop of this update, common Rain staples find themselves tumbling down the viability ranks for a multitude of reasons. Rain structures are not particularly effective against other offensive teams, like Breloom HO, Veil offense, or even Trick Room. Moreover, the matchup-fishy nature of this playstyle also makes it less reliable against Pokémon like Freeze-Dry Kyurem and Chilly Reception Slowking. The PvP Coordinator team believes that Rain has been ranked exceedingly generously for a while now, and this sudden drop seeks to correct a long-standing misperception. Additions: Gengar: Unranked → C+ Gengar has a decent match-up against offense, thanks to its 110 base speed tier, offensive coverage, and access to utility options in Taunt and Destiny Bond. It also fits well on offensive builds, where it can spam Shadow Ball pretty freely while being able to hit common Dark-type switch-ins with Focus Blast and taking advantage of Focus Sash to fire off another hit or use Destiny Bond before fainting. The PvP Coordintor team continues to monitor the VR in lights of the release of new Pokémon, such as Arcanine-Hisui and Ursaluna, and the addition of moves that potentially affect the viability of the likes of Alomomola, the Lati twins, Mega Charizard Y, and Skarmory. However, due to the recency of those events, we are choosing to wait a bit longer before making any further adjustments to the list.

The rankings in this thread reflect those in the other VR thread, so please use that one to make nominations instead. If you believe that a currently unranked Pokémon deserves to be ranked, provide your reasoning, and we will look into the nomination and consider its validity. If you wish to recommend a new set for a Pokémon already on the list, you may use this thread to keep nominations organized accordingly. The label "Offensive Stealth Rock" has already been discussed as an option for Mega Diancie, Mega Metagross, and Mega Swampert. Even though it is a variation of an overall offensive set, we figured it would still be useful to separate an all-out attacker set from one with a utility move, at least until a more detailed list of sets, including moves, is produced.

Not to turn this into a semantics course, but let's not forget the difference between a check and a counter. A Kyurem counter would be able to switch into it manually and still defeat it, even behind its Substitute. A Pokémon like Slowking would not qualify, because it would come in to Future Sight the Sub then switch to another Pokémon that can handle Kyurem after Future Sight breaks the Sub. This makes Slowking a Kyurem check. The list of actual Kyurem counters is extremely limited. There are more offensive and defensive checks, but they would either need to be given a free switch into it or require that no Substitute be up on the other side of the field. Also, another thing worth noting is that, while a Pokémon like Bronzong counters Kyurem, its limited viability means that it would not be worth running in most cases, whereas Clefable and Mega Scizor are both reliable and viable. Encore Alolan Ninetales is also able to switch into Kyurem and lock it into a move, but its usage is exclusive to Veil teams. Bulky Volcarona is a good switch-in as well and, like Mega Gardevoir (which saw some usage on Silver server), can hit Kyurem behind its Substitute. However, Volcarona is weak to Stealth Rock, making it a less reliable answer than Clefable and Mega Scizor. Also, for those of you who enjoy looking at statistics, here are the Kyurem numbers for Silver server and for Gold server that were shared in the official PRO Discord by Wally. While statistics are indicative, they still show that Kyurem excels with certain teammates that can handle some of its weaknesses. I would also encourage each of you, regardless of your opinion on Kyurem and whether you think it is broken or not, to avoid looking at match-ups in a vacuum. Kyurem is not isolated, it is paired up with Pokémon that can help it to handle its checks. Just like you, the Kyurem user can also switch out and not be locked behind Substitute. There are many variables to consider.

As part of our continuing commitment to monitoring developments in the metagame, the PvP Coordinators have noticed that Kyurem is quite possibly a presence that is overcentralizing, difficult to prepare for, and perhaps too strong for our current available answers. This belief is reflected in our recent Viability Rankings update, where Kyurem is now in S-tier. We highly encourage you to participate in this discussion and offer opposing viewpoints, as we recognize that any discussion within a small group of relatively similar people is liable to produce the same ideas, regardless of their competence. We are especially interested in hearing your thoughts on Kyurem's role in the current metagame. Have you had difficulty handling it with your current team? Has it invalidated any builds you wanted to try? Or, on the other hand, are you having success utilizing it? While Kyurem has several viable sets, including Choice Specs and Choice Scarf, we believe it is at its most dangerous when running Substitute, Roost, and Freeze-Dry. On Gold server, players tend to prefer the fourth move Earth Power, while on Silver, players also favor Toxic. This set is able to safely create Substitutes on a vast majority of the viable defensive Pokémon in the PRO metagame, especially balance staples such as Tangrowth and Rotom-Wash. Its titanic base HP stat permits it to easily reach 405 maximum HP, thereby creating 101 HP Substitutes which Seismic Toss Chansey cannot break. Ferrothorn, despite a nominal type advantage, is simply run out of Gyro Ball due to Pressure, while even something like Eviolite Bisharp is faced with the possibility of a straight 2HKO from Earth Power as well as both Substitute and Roost, denying Sucker Punch. Against offensive teams, the combination of Freeze-Dry, Earth Power, and Kyurem's natural bulk forces switches to no end, which it can easily set Substitute on, guaranteeing that it claims a kill shortly thereafter. However, Kyurem's weakness to Stealth Rock and the relative speed of the metagame do somewhat hold it back. Mega Lopunny teams tend to play at a pace that does not often let Kyurem enter the field, while Mega Scizor is one of very few immediately safe defensive answers (though, in an extended interaction, it can certainly eventually get frozen or worn down by hazards). Mega Metagross immediately threatens Kyurem with its faster speed and massive power but simply cannot come in on Kyurem using Substitute more than once. Slowking, which is rapidly gaining popularity, is both a good teammate for Kyurem and a form of counterplay. With Future Sight, it can ensure that a teammate safely enters the field to face a Kyurem without a Substitute while barely dodging the 2HKO from Freeze-Dry. Ultimately, Kyurem is sometimes manageable in battle, even when it poses extreme strain on the teambuilder. We will take into account all feedback we receive before the end of the season, when we intend to make a final decision. Well-constructed and defended reasonings will naturally be given more weight, but we do care even if your opinion is simply that you like the Pokémon. At this time, there are no other Pokémon or combinations that are immediately on our radar, but we will keep you updated as soon as possible if that changes.

Thank you for the suggestions, Bash. Your feedback is appreciated. This thread is in its final form, but we will discuss adding missing sets like the Mega Diancie one you mention or Stealth Rock Mega Metagross. We may need to rename some of the sets to clarify what we mean and avoid any potential confusion. I will just add that usage does not necessarily dictate viability; the most used sets may not automatically be deemed the most viable ones, so we reserve the right to rank all options accordingly while remaining open to changes and additions posted by players in this very thread. We wanted to get the viability rankings and set viability rankings out first as indicative resources while we continue working on the rest. One of the projects would be a detailed list of sets including Abilities, Natures, items, moves, and EV spreads in alignment with what you propose. However, that one would understandably take time and would also link back to this one. Ideally, clicking on each recommended set would take the user to the corresponding set details, but that may not be possible, and we may need to settle for a direct link to the other thread instead. Set explanations would take even longer and are not currently being considered because the time investment would not be worth their limited utility.

Reserved.

Hey. We'll work on a separate list of viable sets, but it'll take time. For now, if there is any Pokémon for which you'd like to know the set(s), please let us know.

PRO PvP Viability Rankings by @Aggs, @Cyanirl, @Jorogumo, and @Pisforpenguin Welcome to the PRO PvP Viability Rankings thread! This thread is maintained by the PvP Coordinator team and will be updated regularly, but we want to hear your thoughts and opinions on both the metagame at large and specific Pokémon. Please understand that viability rankings are fundamentally a subjective matter — and as such, opinions may certainly differ. Please note the following: Usage is not the same as viability. Please do not nominate Pokémon on the grounds that they are frequently used. Be detailed when submitting nominations for changes. It is difficult to convince anyone, us included, to change their mind with a one-liner. All discussion is welcome, especially if you have personal experience laddering with a certain Pokémon for a substantial number of games. Remain civil. While spirited and contentious debate is encouraged, please do not resort to personal attacks. The following Pokémon are ranked in alphabetical order within each sub-tier: S Rank: S Rank Clefable Landorus-T A Rank: A+ Rank Bisharp Kyurem Lopunny-Mega Serperior Tornadus-T Zapdos A Rank Aegislash Azumarill Diancie-Mega Dragonite Ferrothorn Garchomp Heatran Keldeo Kyurem-B Latias-Mega Mawile-Mega Tangrowth A- Rank Annihilape Blacephalon Excadrill Gliscor Latios Manaphy Metagross-Mega Ninetales-Alola Scizor-Mega Skarmory Slowbro Slowking Thundurus Victini Volcarona B Rank: B+ Rank Alakazam-Mega Alomomola Amoonguss Chansey Charizard-Mega-X Charizard-Mega-Y Greninja Jirachi Kommo-o Latias Latios-Mega Magnezone Pinsir-Mega Rotom-Wash Sableye-Mega Tyranitar Weavile B Rank Breloom Gyarados-Mega Hippowdon Hoopa-U Hydreigon Medicham-Mega Mew Suicune Thundurus-T Tyranitar-Mega Venusaur-Mega Volcanion B- Rank Altaria-Mega Crawdaunt Gastrodon Heracross-Mega Porygon-Z Reuniclus Ursaluna C Rank: C+ Rank Aerodactyl Alakazam Cresselia Diggersby Ditto Gallade-Mega Gengar Mamowsine Manectric-Mega Pelipper Porygon2 Quagsire Ribombee Scizor Swampert-Mega Togekiss Uxie C Rank Cloyster Conkeldurr Gardevoir-Mega Gyarados Hawlucha Kingdra Marowak-Alola Mimikyu Slowbro-Mega Terrakion Torkoal Venusaur C- Rank Aerodactyl-Mega Azelf Blastoise Blissey Cofagrigus Garchomp-Mega Infernape Jellicent Kleavor Klefki Mantine Muk-Alola Nidoking Pidgeot-Mega Seismitoad Starmie Tentacruel

Hey. There's a more recent version of this thread here. However, it's not fully up-to-date anymore. There's been several metagame developments since the last update and I haven't had time to keep up with all of them. Z-Moves, Tapus, and other Pokemon are allowed in Ranked PvP for the time being, but they were announced as temporary additions, so I didn't feel the need to rework the other VR list yet.

This is another scenario that will almost never matter in practice. If your Ditto is slower than an opposing Ditto, the nature and the speed will help you in a Struggle war. Otherwise, any nature and speed IV can work as long as your Ditto has Imposter.