Jorogumo

Hey. We'll work on a separate list of viable sets, but it'll take time. For now, if there is any Pokémon for which you'd like to know the set(s), please let us know.

PRO PvP Viability Rankings by @Aggs, @Cyanirl, @Jorogumo, and @Pisforpenguin Welcome to the PRO PvP Viability Rankings thread! This thread is maintained by the PvP Coordinator team and will be updated regularly, but we want to hear your thoughts and opinions on both the metagame at large and specific Pokémon. Please understand that viability rankings are fundamentally a subjective matter — and as such, opinions may certainly differ. Please note the following: Usage is not the same as viability. Please do not nominate Pokémon on the grounds that they are frequently used. Be detailed when submitting nominations for changes. It is difficult to convince anyone, us included, to change their mind with a one-liner. All discussion is welcome, especially if you have personal experience laddering with a certain Pokémon for a substantial number of games. Remain civil. While spirited and contentious debate is encouraged, please do not resort to personal attacks. The following Pokémon are ranked in alphabetical order within each sub-tier: S Rank: S Rank Clefable Kyurem Landorus-T A Rank: A+ Rank Aegislash Lopunny-Mega Mawile-Mega Serperior Tornadus-T A Rank Bisharp Diancie-Mega Dragonite Ferrothorn Garchomp Heatran Keldeo Metagross-Mega Tangrowth Zapdos A- Rank Alakazam-Mega Annihilape Azumarill Charizard-Mega-Y Excadrill Gliscor Hoopa-U Kyurem-B Manaphy Medicham-Mega Ninetales-Alola Rotom-Wash Scizor-Mega Slowking Thundurus Victini Volcarona B Rank: B+ Rank Amoonguss Blacephalon Chansey Charizard-Mega-X Greninja Jirachi Kommo-o Latias Latias-Mega Latios Magnezone Pelipper Sableye-Mega Slowbro Swampert-Mega Tyranitar Weavile B Rank Alomomola Gyarados-Mega Hippowdon Hydreigon Latios-Mega Mew Skarmory Suicune Thundurus-T Tyranitar-Mega Venusaur-Mega Volcanion B- Rank Altaria-Mega Breloom Crawdaunt Gastrodon Heracross-Mega Kingdra Porygon-Z Pinsir-Mega Reuniclus Ribombee C Rank: C+ Rank Alakazam Diggersby Ditto Gallade-Mega Mamowsine Manectric-Mega Quagsire Scizor Togekiss C Rank Cloyster Conkeldurr Cresselia Gardevoir-Mega Gyarados Hawlucha Marowak-Alola Mimikyu Slowbro-Mega Torkoal Venusaur C- Rank Aerodactyl-Mega Azelf Blissey Cofagrigus Garchomp-Mega Infernape Jellicent Klefki Mantine Muk-Alola Nidoking Pidgeot-Mega Porygon2 Seismitoad Starmie Tentacruel Uxie

Hey. There's a more recent version of this thread here. However, it's not fully up-to-date anymore. There's been several metagame developments since the last update and I haven't had time to keep up with all of them. Z-Moves, Tapus, and other Pokemon are allowed in Ranked PvP for the time being, but they were announced as temporary additions, so I didn't feel the need to rework the other VR list yet.

This is another scenario that will almost never matter in practice. If your Ditto is slower than an opposing Ditto, the nature and the speed will help you in a Struggle war. Otherwise, any nature and speed IV can work as long as your Ditto has Imposter.

Hey. This is minor and will mostly never matter in practice. Basically, 29 HP IVs minimize Life Orb recoil. If Gengar has 30+ HP IVs, it will have 260+ HP and will lose 26 HP every time that Life Orb activates. However, with 29 HP IVs, it will have 259 HP and will only lose 25 HP with every hit because 25.9 is rounded down to 25 due to the way Pokemon mechanics work. This makes 29 HP IVs an optimal choice, but it's totally optional and having higher or lower HP IVs will work just as fine. For the purpose of this (now outdated) thread, I tried to optimize sets and spreads as much as possible.

Starmie Serperior Jynx

Small VR changes: Garchomp: A+ → A Breloom: B+ → B Cofagrigus: C- → C The reasons for these changes were mentioned in the #top25-pvp-chat channel of the PRO Discord server on June 8, 2022. I recommend reading them if you are curious about them. There was also some discussion about Landorus-T, Amoonguss, and Starmie. For now, they all remain in their respective tiers (S, B+, and B-). However, while I generally agree with their current placements, I haven't fully made up my mind one way or the other and would like to see them being discussed further. Kyurem-B is still a recent addition and more time is needed before ranking it. Feel free to discuss that one as well. Edit: Kyurem-B has been tentatively added to A- on August 17, 2022.

Here is the successful application of the newest council member, Nornornor444. About you Main account name: Nornornor444 Alternate account names (only if relevant): Rosani Main server: Silver Your PvP experience Highest rating ever achieved: 529 Highest ranking ever achieved: #5 Number of PRO tournaments (i.e., PRO Ladder Tours or PRO Summer Tours) won: 0 Highest placement in PRO tournaments: 3rd in ladder tournament You and PRO PvP What is your favorite Pokémon to use competitively, and why? Clefable. Clefable has all the good moves which makes it a great utility mon. Having great spatking moves along with Moonblast such as Flamethrower, Ice beam, Thunderbolt gives it great coverage. Access to Thunder wave and Knock Off allows it to cripple switch ins. Having Calm Mind gives Clefable a chance to sweep. Unaware Clef does its role in stall team, dealing with set up sweepers as well as Wish Pass. What is your least favorite Pokémon to face competitively, and why? Static Zapdos with defog. Self explanatory, no one wants their Mega Metagross to be paralyzed. How would you describe the current PRO metagame (i.e., Normal Ranked PvP) to a new PRO player who is familiar with competitive Pokémon in other games or platforms? It's uncompetitive and boring. PRO Meta is somewhat in between Gen6 and Gen7, with the worst mechanics coming from each gen. Gen6 with no defog makes it better for offensive teams to perform better, meanwhile in gen7 almost everything has defog, even static zapdos. Gen7 has better special attackers than PRO Meta which makes PRO mostly a physical meta. Archetype such as stall almost always has no answer for hard hitting wallbreakers such as Band Ttar, Specs keld, Mega Medicham, Band Crawdaunt etc as well as Stallbreaker Torn, Mew. About the PRO PvP Council Why are you interested in applying to join the PRO PvP Council? How do you feel about its current state? I'm interested in applying to the PRO PvP Council because I want to use my knowledge and help shape the meta. Currently, PRO PvP Council has some inactive members not playing the game as much as before, which is why I believe it needs to be shaped. According to you, what should be the role and duties of the PRO PvP Council? The main role of the PRO PvP Council is to help shape the meta, have the meta healthy and enjoyable for players to enjoy. About the current PRO PvP metagame What is your evaluation of the state of offensive, balanced and defensive teams in the current metagame? Do you believe that the PRO PvP Council should intervene and take action to change the situation or not? Hyper offense is not that good in the meta right now, with too many defoggers and static zapdos. The teams are most of the time fat which makes it difficult for hyper offense to perform very well. Bulky Offense is probably the best archetype in the meta right now, as it has ways to deal with most archetypes. Balance has never been good enough to use on ladder considering balance is always about making predicts to get momentum, and losing momentum due to defensive answers. Balance usually never has the upper hand in the match up which makes the player having to predict a lot to win, and definitely not something a new player should use. Stall teams in the meta right now is just bad. There are hardly any answer for Specs Keldeo + Banded Ttar, or mega medicham/banded crawdaunt in stall teams. Stallbreaker Torn usually always just wins vs stalls easily. There are too many ways to beat stalls. Volt Turn with rocks pressure is very hard to deal with for stalls. Addition of Mega Sableye would easily make stall very good but it's not really the way. There isn't much PRO PvP Council can do to fix the metagame, as the blame completely goes for not releasing more gen7 mons that could shape the meta more and make the metagame more healthy. In general, what makes something ban-worthy, and why? The lack of answers in the metagame for a certain mon makes it ban-worthy. Not having many reliable answers, and making teambuilding very limited, such as having to run a certain mon to check something. In your opinion, is Mega Metagross ban-worthy? Justify your answer. Mega Metagross is not ban-worthy in the metagame right now. But it is certainly one of the best megas in the game right now. Megagross was not banned in Gen6 but banned in Gen7. One of the major nerf for megagross in gen6 was the mega speed not being added the turn it megas. The difference between 262-350 is huge. Meanwhile in gen7, megagross would have been dominant with the addition of terrains. Mega Metagross can be simply put as 'Broken' with every terrain helping it somehow; Grassy Terrain helps with recovery every turn and half the damage from EQ, Misty Terrain saving it from Will O Wisps, Psychic Terrain for boosted power with Zen Headbutt and immune to sucker punch, Electric Terrain for that added thunder punch to two shot Skarmory and Slowbro. But right now, there are enough checks and ways to deal with megagross even though it's performance is top notch most of the times. Discuss one of the current PvP bans and explain why it is deserved or undeserved. Mega Mawile:- Mega Mawile honestly deserves to just go somewhere else. It's typing is ridiculous, with access to Pre Mega ability Intimidate let's it set up easily on a lot of pokemon. It has a great movepool, going with Play Rough, Fire Fang, Swords dance, Knock Off, Sucker Punch, Iron Head. It doesn't have much switch ins considering -1 252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 112+ Def Landorus-Therian: 163-193 (42.6 - 50.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery. Lando-T can only come out once after rocks. 252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zapdos: 222-262 (57.8 - 68.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery; has to go on a mindgame after with whether Mega Mawile will Play Rough or Sucker Punch, as you don't want to be in the receiving end of Play Rough when you roost and you die, Sucker Punch on your Heat Wave and die, 0 SpA Zapdos Heat Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mawile-Mega: 172-204 (71.3 - 84.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO do this and still die to play rough. 252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 96+ Def Slowbro: 306-362 (77.8 - 92.1%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock. That's not it considering if your only Mawile Switch in is Slowbro, Mawile can simply set up Swords Dance and threat to Ohko. There really isn't enough to deal with Mega Mawile except if someone runs Arcanine with Intimidate and Will O Wisp? Considering competitive Pokemon is a team game and Mega Mawile just has a huge impact with a well built team around it, as it is pretty easy to build a solid VoltTurn around it. Mega Mawile destroys stall entirely unless you slap a Quagsire in it, considering +2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Fire Fang vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 304-358 (91 - 107.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock. Quagsire still can't though; +2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Quagsire: 222-262 (56.3 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery. It's lack of speed and not as much versatile makes it not too entirely 'broken' but still a reasonable ban.

The PvP Council is the entity in charge of overseeing the competitive side of PRO PvP. It currently caters to the higher end of the ladder, especially the top 25 players from each server, as well as ladder tournament participants. While we acknowledge that ladder tournaments display a higher skill cap, we cannot deny that the majority of PvP matches are played on the ladder and that the decisions of the PvP Council will impact the entire community. To promote an optimally healthy and competitive PvP environment, the PvP Council must take the necessary tiering actions when something is proven to negatively impact both the ladder and tournament play. This stems from the belief that it first has to become problematic before reaching a ban-worthy status, although exceptions, namely quick bans, can be made if the metagame otherwise runs the risk of being seriously compromised. It must be noted that the PvP Council must provide a justification for changing the status quo, that is, the (pre)existing state of affairs. The burden of proof should always lie with the side making a tiering proposal. That party should explain how something negatively affects both the ladder and ladder tournaments and why banning it is necessary. Conversely, said party should explain why unbanning something is possible and/or how it can positively impact PvP. While on the lookout for ways to improve the metagame, the PvP Council should consider different suggestions, use personal player experience, and keep an eye on new metagame additions. This period of scrutiny and informal observation should be followed by discussion surrounding the potential issue(s) to exchange arguments favoring or opposing metagame change(s). Following the debate period, the PvP Council should internally vote to determine whether any adjustment(s) should be made and, if so, what course(s) of action should be adopted. The bulk of these conversations takes place in the PvP Council channels of the official Pokémon Revolution Online Discord server. For further information regarding the PvP Council structure, please take a look at this thread: Introducing the PvP Council. Even if you do not meet all requirements, you may still be eligible for the Council position. However, overall, PvP Council applicants must: Have an extensive knowledge and understanding of the PRO PvP metagame. Be able to communicate and debate PvP matters in English efficiently and fluently. Have a relatively clean infraction history, particularly in relation to rank boosting and general behavior, as the infraction history of each applicant will be reviewed. Have an extensive PvP experience in PRO. Carefully follow all the rules of the official Pokémon Revolution Online Discord server. If you are interested in joining the PvP Council, please fill out the application form below and post it in the PvP Council Application section of the forums. We ask that you keep your application confidential and avoid sharing your answers with other members of the PRO community. Moreover, helping other applicants with their applications is not allowed and will result in the rejection of your own application.

6m.

5m.

Welcome to the Baby XD001 suspect test thread. Baby XD001 was first released during the 2021 Halloween event and has been an infamously controversial addition ever since, with its proponents seeing it as a welcome change and its opponents disagreeing with the path it seems to invite PRO to follow. Despite the preexistence of some unofficial Pokémon in the game, Baby XD001 is thought by many to cross a line as the first catchable one of the sort. Inspired by Shadow Lugia, it also possesses an unprecedented dual typing in Shadow / Flying, thus effectively introducing a new type to PRO. This left players both excited and perplexed by the prospect of using Baby XD001. The Shadow type works similarly to the way it operated in Pokémon Colosseum and Pokémon XD: Gale of Darkness. Offensively, it inflicts STAB-less super effective damage to every type except itself, since Shadow-type moves are not very effective against Shadow-type Pokémon. It is worth nothing that, while Shadow moves themselves do not receive STAB, other moves used by Baby XD001, like Aeroblast, do. Moreover, Shadow-type moves always deal x2 super effective damage, even to Pokémon with a dual typing. Defensively, all moves – with the exception of Shadow-type ones – deal neutral damage to the Shadow type. This means that Baby XD001 will virtually be receiving damage as a pure Flying type, making it weak to Electric-, Ice-, and Rock-type attacks. Baby XD001’s initial base stats were as follows: 20 ATK, 105 DEF, 100 SPD, 55 SPATK, 110 SPDEF, and 70 HP. The HP stat was recently buffed to 76 to prevent potential issues that could arise due to the conversion of Baby XD001 into Baby Lugia, its “purified” counterpart, in the future. As a result, DEF and SPDEF were respectively nerfed down from 105 to 100 and from 110 to 105. Thus, Baby XD001’s current base stats are as follows: 20 ATK, 100 DEF, 100 SPD, 55 SPATK, 105 SPDEF, and 76 HP. Baby XD001 possesses two Abilities: Marvel Scale and Multiscale. Marvel Scale multiplies the Pokémon’s Defense by 1.5 if it has a non-volatile status condition. While Baby XD001 is arguably prone to status, it can utilize Marvel Scale to take advantage of burns. In an effort to maximize the potential of this Ability while simultaneously avoiding other forms of status, Baby XD001 can wield a Flame Orb. The Hidden Ability, Multiscale, halves the damage taken from attacks if the Pokémon is at full HP. Considering Baby XD001’s primary Shadow typing, it can utilize Multiscale well, in conjunction with other moves, like Roost and Calm Mind, to become harder to take down. Baby XD001 learns four Shadow-type moves: Shadow Blast, Shadow Down, Shadow Shed, and Shadow Storm. From a PvP standpoint, Shadow Storm particularly stands out for having a Base Power of 95 coupled with perfect accuracy. Aside from Shadow moves, Baby XD001 possesses the same moves as Lugia – with the exception of four “purified” ones: Earthquake, Feather Dance, Hydro Pump, and Psycho Boost. While its offensive coverage is good and varied, Baby XD001 is likely to find itself in situations where clicking Shadow Storm is more beneficial. However, due to its limited PPs, ranging from 10 to 16, other options can be considered. Furthermore, Baby XD001 learns many utility moves, such as Calm Mind, Defog, Rest, Roost, Sleep Talk, Substitute, Tail Wind, Thunder Wave, Toxic, Trick, and Whirlwind. Despite a deceptively low SPATK stat of 55, Baby XD001 can take advantage of Choice Specs to run a specially offensive set capable of 2HKOing the vast majority of the metagame with just Shadow Storm. On that set, it can even use Trick to circumvent one of its main roadblocks in Chansey. While a Timid nature can viably be used to reach 328 Speed, a Modest nature allows Baby XD001 to have more immediate breaking power and transforms some 3HKOs into 2HKOs. Having said that, Baby XD001 can alternatively run other, viable sets revolving around moves like Calm Mind and Defog. For example, it can make use of Calm Mind with Multiscale and Leftovers or Marvel Scale and Flame Orb. On sets like those, which can be fully offensive, bulky or even fully defensive, Baby XD001 does not lack versatility. For instance, Marvel Scale Flame Orb sets with Calm Mind can run a move like Toxic to improve the match-up against defensive teams. Overall, depending on its set, Baby XD001 can choose its battles and accommodate its own needs or those of its teammates. It is also worth noting that, despite its name, Baby XD001 cannot use Eviolite because it is not considered unevolved. The list of Pokémon able to handle most or all of Baby XD001’s sets is both limited and somewhat set-dependent. Defensively speaking, Chansey and Baby XD001 itself stand out as the most reliable answers due to their ability to stomach powerful Shadow Storm attacks. Assault Vest Tornadus-T can switch into Baby XD001 and threaten to remove its item or generate momentum, although it is faster. Unaware Clefable can take on most Calm Mind sets but must be wary of moves like Toxic or sets such as Choice Specs, making Bold a far less reliable nature against Baby XD001. The same goes for Heatran, which cannot attempt to check Baby XD001 without a Calm nature. Common Pokémon, like Mega Scizor and Ferrothorn, can heavily invest into SPDEF to avoid the 2HKO at all times, but hazards and prior chip tend to make them shaky answers, especially in the long term. With or without Assault Vest, Tyranitar fears very little from Baby XD001 but has to choose between longevity and power. Mega Latias can reliably switch into it and attempt to beat it with Calm Mind and either Psyshock or Stored Power, though it cannot beat Toxic sets without Refresh or, at least, in some cases, Substitute. Amoonguss can threaten Baby XD001 with Spore and Clear Smog, but it should particularly watch out for Aeroblast. Some niche yet viable picks include Filter Mega Aggron, Alolan Muk, Ditto and specially defensive Clear Smog Gastrodon. While it is difficult to check Baby XD001 offensively, maintaining pressure and using faster threats can hinder its ability to retain Multiscale, stay healthy throughout the match or find opportunities to fire off its attacks. Finally, Stealth Rock, one of the most commonly used moves in PvP, prevents Baby XD001 from keeping said Multiscale intact by forcing it to take 25% damage every time that it comes into play. On paper, Baby XD001 can be used on a myriad of teams, ranging from semi-stall to hyper offense (e.g., Sticky Web, Veil…). It will be up to you to try to discover them and use them! When Baby XD001 was first released, it divided the PRO community and the PvP council. As a result, it was banned in October 2021 before ever being allowed in Ranked PvP. This suspect test will serve to determine whether the playerbase wants Baby XD001 to be legal or not. Many of those in favor of allowing Baby XD001 welcome the change it offers with open arms. They wish to give it a chance due to the overall staleness of the metagame, which has known no new, relevant additions since early 2021. They consider PRO as its own entity and separate it from other Pokémon games and platforms, thus appreciating the addition of unofficial Pokémon. While others are less vocal about allowing Baby XD001 just for the sake of implementing a change of any kind, they believe that it should at least be tested and given a fair trial solely based on its PvP performance. They find that Baby XD001 can benefit the game in the long term. Arguing in favor of a case-by-case basis, some even cite Timid Aura Sphere Raikou and Timid Eruption Heatran as unique examples that make PRO stand out. Several Baby XD001 proponents believe it would be manageable and far from ban-worthy since its average Speed tier and relatively low stats mitigate its potential and keep it in check by forcing the player to choose between bulk, power and speed. Those who oppose allowing Baby XD001 in Ranked PvP often cite the fact that it is an unofficial Pokémon with a unique, unprecedented typing that would discourage new or casual players from starting PvP and would demotivate veterans, possibly driving them away. They also view this addition as an unexpected and unwelcome surprise that goes against some of the reasons that prompted them to choose PRO in the first place. Moreover, they find that the Shadow type is an unnecessary complication with many practical repercussions, such as preventing players from properly running calculations or forcing them to learn all the characteristics of the Shadow type. To an extent, they even compare Baby XD001 to previously banned illegal combinations, like Soft-Boiled on Unaware Clefable, to justify a ban for the sake of consistency. Others, who do not necessarily oppose unofficial Pokémon, are against Baby XD001 due to the low opportunity cost of running it and spamming a single move: Shadow Storm. According to them, Baby XD001 is inherently broken because of its Shadow typing and does not contribute positively to the promotion of a skill-based metagame, as it might be too easy to use, too good at what it does, self-sufficient, or potentially overcentralizing. Once the suspect test begins, players will be able to interact with an NPC that will spawn a single Baby XD001. It will be guaranteed to have 31 SPD. Other IVs will be randomized but will at least be equal or superior to 20. When the season ends, every spawned Baby XD001 will be removed. This does not concern the ones previously caught during the Halloween event. The suspect test will last for the entirety of the February 2022 season, ending on February 28 – unless officially announced otherwise. In order to qualify and be eligible to vote, players will need to achieve a minimum rating of 300 over 30 (or more) games played. There will be no game limit or win rate requirement. 300+ rating and 30+ games will suffice. Players will only be able to qualify and vote once (i.e., on a single account). Moderators will make sure to double-check requirements and keep an eye on potential fraud attempts. Eligible voters will be able to vote in this thread after the season ends. It will remain locked until then. The qualified playerbase will vote to decide the outcome of this suspect test. There will be two options to choose from – BAN or UNBAN. The threshold to unban Baby XD001 must be ≥ 60% of the qualified votes cast (meaning that 60% would suffice to unban it). If this threshold is not met, Baby XD001 will remain banned. We hope that you will consider taking part in this suspect test. Good luck to everyone. Voting template: Vote (BAN or UNBAN): Account name: Server (Silver or Gold):

12 CCs.

10 CCs.

The banner on the initial post has been updated. It now includes different Pokémon and, most notably, 3 Mega Evolutions: Mega Alakazam, Mega Metagross, and Mega Scizor.