Jorogumo

The rankings in this thread reflect those in the other VR thread, so please use that one to make nominations instead. If you believe that a currently unranked Pokémon deserves to be ranked, provide your reasoning, and we will look into the nomination and consider its validity. If you wish to recommend a new set for a Pokémon already on the list, you may use this thread to keep nominations organized accordingly. The label "Offensive Stealth Rock" has already been discussed as an option for Mega Diancie, Mega Metagross, and Mega Swampert. Even though it is a variation of an overall offensive set, we figured it would still be useful to separate an all-out attacker set from one with a utility move, at least until a more detailed list of sets, including moves, is produced.

Not to turn this into a semantics course, but let's not forget the difference between a check and a counter. A Kyurem counter would be able to switch into it manually and still defeat it, even behind its Substitute. A Pokémon like Slowking would not qualify, because it would come in to Future Sight the Sub then switch to another Pokémon that can handle Kyurem after Future Sight breaks the Sub. This makes Slowking a Kyurem check. The list of actual Kyurem counters is extremely limited. There are more offensive and defensive checks, but they would either need to be given a free switch into it or require that no Substitute be up on the other side of the field. Also, another thing worth noting is that, while a Pokémon like Bronzong counters Kyurem, its limited viability means that it would not be worth running in most cases, whereas Clefable and Mega Scizor are both reliable and viable. Encore Alolan Ninetales is also able to switch into Kyurem and lock it into a move, but its usage is exclusive to Veil teams. Bulky Volcarona is a good switch-in as well and, like Mega Gardevoir (which saw some usage on Silver server), can hit Kyurem behind its Substitute. However, Volcarona is weak to Stealth Rock, making it a less reliable answer than Clefable and Mega Scizor. Also, for those of you who enjoy looking at statistics, here are the Kyurem numbers for Silver server and for Gold server that were shared in the official PRO Discord by Wally. While statistics are indicative, they still show that Kyurem excels with certain teammates that can handle some of its weaknesses. I would also encourage each of you, regardless of your opinion on Kyurem and whether you think it is broken or not, to avoid looking at match-ups in a vacuum. Kyurem is not isolated, it is paired up with Pokémon that can help it to handle its checks. Just like you, the Kyurem user can also switch out and not be locked behind Substitute. There are many variables to consider.

As part of our continuing commitment to monitoring developments in the metagame, the PvP Coordinators have noticed that Kyurem is quite possibly a presence that is overcentralizing, difficult to prepare for, and perhaps too strong for our current available answers. This belief is reflected in our recent Viability Rankings update, where Kyurem is now in S-tier. We highly encourage you to participate in this discussion and offer opposing viewpoints, as we recognize that any discussion within a small group of relatively similar people is liable to produce the same ideas, regardless of their competence. We are especially interested in hearing your thoughts on Kyurem's role in the current metagame. Have you had difficulty handling it with your current team? Has it invalidated any builds you wanted to try? Or, on the other hand, are you having success utilizing it? While Kyurem has several viable sets, including Choice Specs and Choice Scarf, we believe it is at its most dangerous when running Substitute, Roost, and Freeze-Dry. On Gold server, players tend to prefer the fourth move Earth Power, while on Silver, players also favor Toxic. This set is able to safely create Substitutes on a vast majority of the viable defensive Pokémon in the PRO metagame, especially balance staples such as Tangrowth and Rotom-Wash. Its titanic base HP stat permits it to easily reach 405 maximum HP, thereby creating 101 HP Substitutes which Seismic Toss Chansey cannot break. Ferrothorn, despite a nominal type advantage, is simply run out of Gyro Ball due to Pressure, while even something like Eviolite Bisharp is faced with the possibility of a straight 2HKO from Earth Power as well as both Substitute and Roost, denying Sucker Punch. Against offensive teams, the combination of Freeze-Dry, Earth Power, and Kyurem's natural bulk forces switches to no end, which it can easily set Substitute on, guaranteeing that it claims a kill shortly thereafter. However, Kyurem's weakness to Stealth Rock and the relative speed of the metagame do somewhat hold it back. Mega Lopunny teams tend to play at a pace that does not often let Kyurem enter the field, while Mega Scizor is one of very few immediately safe defensive answers (though, in an extended interaction, it can certainly eventually get frozen or worn down by hazards). Mega Metagross immediately threatens Kyurem with its faster speed and massive power but simply cannot come in on Kyurem using Substitute more than once. Slowking, which is rapidly gaining popularity, is both a good teammate for Kyurem and a form of counterplay. With Future Sight, it can ensure that a teammate safely enters the field to face a Kyurem without a Substitute while barely dodging the 2HKO from Freeze-Dry. Ultimately, Kyurem is sometimes manageable in battle, even when it poses extreme strain on the teambuilder. We will take into account all feedback we receive before the end of the season, when we intend to make a final decision. Well-constructed and defended reasonings will naturally be given more weight, but we do care even if your opinion is simply that you like the Pokémon. At this time, there are no other Pokémon or combinations that are immediately on our radar, but we will keep you updated as soon as possible if that changes.

Thank you for the suggestions, Bash. Your feedback is appreciated. This thread is in its final form, but we will discuss adding missing sets like the Mega Diancie one you mention or Stealth Rock Mega Metagross. We may need to rename some of the sets to clarify what we mean and avoid any potential confusion. I will just add that usage does not necessarily dictate viability; the most used sets may not automatically be deemed the most viable ones, so we reserve the right to rank all options accordingly while remaining open to changes and additions posted by players in this very thread. We wanted to get the viability rankings and set viability rankings out first as indicative resources while we continue working on the rest. One of the projects would be a detailed list of sets including Abilities, Natures, items, moves, and EV spreads in alignment with what you propose. However, that one would understandably take time and would also link back to this one. Ideally, clicking on each recommended set would take the user to the corresponding set details, but that may not be possible, and we may need to settle for a direct link to the other thread instead. Set explanations would take even longer and are not currently being considered because the time investment would not be worth their limited utility.

Reserved.

Hey. We'll work on a separate list of viable sets, but it'll take time. For now, if there is any Pokémon for which you'd like to know the set(s), please let us know.

PRO PvP Viability Rankings by @Aggs, @Cyanirl, @Jorogumo, and @Pisforpenguin Welcome to the PRO PvP Viability Rankings thread! This thread is maintained by the PvP Coordinator team and will be updated regularly, but we want to hear your thoughts and opinions on both the metagame at large and specific Pokémon. Please understand that viability rankings are fundamentally a subjective matter — and as such, opinions may certainly differ. Please note the following: Usage is not the same as viability. Please do not nominate Pokémon on the grounds that they are frequently used. Be detailed when submitting nominations for changes. It is difficult to convince anyone, us included, to change their mind with a one-liner. All discussion is welcome, especially if you have personal experience laddering with a certain Pokémon for a substantial number of games. Remain civil. While spirited and contentious debate is encouraged, please do not resort to personal attacks. The following Pokémon are ranked in alphabetical order within each sub-tier: S Rank: S Rank Clefable Kyurem Landorus-T A Rank: A+ Rank Aegislash Lopunny-Mega Mawile-Mega Serperior Tornadus-T A Rank Bisharp Diancie-Mega Dragonite Ferrothorn Garchomp Heatran Keldeo Metagross-Mega Tangrowth Zapdos A- Rank Alakazam-Mega Annihilape Azumarill Charizard-Mega-Y Excadrill Gliscor Hoopa-U Kyurem-B Manaphy Medicham-Mega Ninetales-Alola Rotom-Wash Scizor-Mega Slowking Thundurus Victini Volcarona B Rank: B+ Rank Amoonguss Blacephalon Chansey Charizard-Mega-X Greninja Jirachi Kommo-o Latias Latias-Mega Latios Magnezone Pelipper Sableye-Mega Slowbro Swampert-Mega Tyranitar Weavile B Rank Alomomola Gyarados-Mega Hippowdon Hydreigon Latios-Mega Mew Skarmory Suicune Thundurus-T Tyranitar-Mega Venusaur-Mega Volcanion B- Rank Altaria-Mega Breloom Crawdaunt Gastrodon Heracross-Mega Kingdra Porygon-Z Pinsir-Mega Reuniclus Ribombee C Rank: C+ Rank Alakazam Diggersby Ditto Gallade-Mega Mamowsine Manectric-Mega Quagsire Scizor Togekiss C Rank Cloyster Conkeldurr Cresselia Gardevoir-Mega Gyarados Hawlucha Marowak-Alola Mimikyu Slowbro-Mega Torkoal Venusaur C- Rank Aerodactyl-Mega Azelf Blissey Cofagrigus Garchomp-Mega Infernape Jellicent Klefki Mantine Muk-Alola Nidoking Pidgeot-Mega Porygon2 Seismitoad Starmie Tentacruel Uxie

Hey. There's a more recent version of this thread here. However, it's not fully up-to-date anymore. There's been several metagame developments since the last update and I haven't had time to keep up with all of them. Z-Moves, Tapus, and other Pokemon are allowed in Ranked PvP for the time being, but they were announced as temporary additions, so I didn't feel the need to rework the other VR list yet.

This is another scenario that will almost never matter in practice. If your Ditto is slower than an opposing Ditto, the nature and the speed will help you in a Struggle war. Otherwise, any nature and speed IV can work as long as your Ditto has Imposter.

Hey. This is minor and will mostly never matter in practice. Basically, 29 HP IVs minimize Life Orb recoil. If Gengar has 30+ HP IVs, it will have 260+ HP and will lose 26 HP every time that Life Orb activates. However, with 29 HP IVs, it will have 259 HP and will only lose 25 HP with every hit because 25.9 is rounded down to 25 due to the way Pokemon mechanics work. This makes 29 HP IVs an optimal choice, but it's totally optional and having higher or lower HP IVs will work just as fine. For the purpose of this (now outdated) thread, I tried to optimize sets and spreads as much as possible.

Starmie Serperior Jynx

Small VR changes: Garchomp: A+ → A Breloom: B+ → B Cofagrigus: C- → C The reasons for these changes were mentioned in the #top25-pvp-chat channel of the PRO Discord server on June 8, 2022. I recommend reading them if you are curious about them. There was also some discussion about Landorus-T, Amoonguss, and Starmie. For now, they all remain in their respective tiers (S, B+, and B-). However, while I generally agree with their current placements, I haven't fully made up my mind one way or the other and would like to see them being discussed further. Kyurem-B is still a recent addition and more time is needed before ranking it. Feel free to discuss that one as well. Edit: Kyurem-B has been tentatively added to A- on August 17, 2022.

Here is the successful application of the newest council member, Nornornor444. About you Main account name: Nornornor444 Alternate account names (only if relevant): Rosani Main server: Silver Your PvP experience Highest rating ever achieved: 529 Highest ranking ever achieved: #5 Number of PRO tournaments (i.e., PRO Ladder Tours or PRO Summer Tours) won: 0 Highest placement in PRO tournaments: 3rd in ladder tournament You and PRO PvP What is your favorite Pokémon to use competitively, and why? Clefable. Clefable has all the good moves which makes it a great utility mon. Having great spatking moves along with Moonblast such as Flamethrower, Ice beam, Thunderbolt gives it great coverage. Access to Thunder wave and Knock Off allows it to cripple switch ins. Having Calm Mind gives Clefable a chance to sweep. Unaware Clef does its role in stall team, dealing with set up sweepers as well as Wish Pass. What is your least favorite Pokémon to face competitively, and why? Static Zapdos with defog. Self explanatory, no one wants their Mega Metagross to be paralyzed. How would you describe the current PRO metagame (i.e., Normal Ranked PvP) to a new PRO player who is familiar with competitive Pokémon in other games or platforms? It's uncompetitive and boring. PRO Meta is somewhat in between Gen6 and Gen7, with the worst mechanics coming from each gen. Gen6 with no defog makes it better for offensive teams to perform better, meanwhile in gen7 almost everything has defog, even static zapdos. Gen7 has better special attackers than PRO Meta which makes PRO mostly a physical meta. Archetype such as stall almost always has no answer for hard hitting wallbreakers such as Band Ttar, Specs keld, Mega Medicham, Band Crawdaunt etc as well as Stallbreaker Torn, Mew. About the PRO PvP Council Why are you interested in applying to join the PRO PvP Council? How do you feel about its current state? I'm interested in applying to the PRO PvP Council because I want to use my knowledge and help shape the meta. Currently, PRO PvP Council has some inactive members not playing the game as much as before, which is why I believe it needs to be shaped. According to you, what should be the role and duties of the PRO PvP Council? The main role of the PRO PvP Council is to help shape the meta, have the meta healthy and enjoyable for players to enjoy. About the current PRO PvP metagame What is your evaluation of the state of offensive, balanced and defensive teams in the current metagame? Do you believe that the PRO PvP Council should intervene and take action to change the situation or not? Hyper offense is not that good in the meta right now, with too many defoggers and static zapdos. The teams are most of the time fat which makes it difficult for hyper offense to perform very well. Bulky Offense is probably the best archetype in the meta right now, as it has ways to deal with most archetypes. Balance has never been good enough to use on ladder considering balance is always about making predicts to get momentum, and losing momentum due to defensive answers. Balance usually never has the upper hand in the match up which makes the player having to predict a lot to win, and definitely not something a new player should use. Stall teams in the meta right now is just bad. There are hardly any answer for Specs Keldeo + Banded Ttar, or mega medicham/banded crawdaunt in stall teams. Stallbreaker Torn usually always just wins vs stalls easily. There are too many ways to beat stalls. Volt Turn with rocks pressure is very hard to deal with for stalls. Addition of Mega Sableye would easily make stall very good but it's not really the way. There isn't much PRO PvP Council can do to fix the metagame, as the blame completely goes for not releasing more gen7 mons that could shape the meta more and make the metagame more healthy. In general, what makes something ban-worthy, and why? The lack of answers in the metagame for a certain mon makes it ban-worthy. Not having many reliable answers, and making teambuilding very limited, such as having to run a certain mon to check something. In your opinion, is Mega Metagross ban-worthy? Justify your answer. Mega Metagross is not ban-worthy in the metagame right now. But it is certainly one of the best megas in the game right now. Megagross was not banned in Gen6 but banned in Gen7. One of the major nerf for megagross in gen6 was the mega speed not being added the turn it megas. The difference between 262-350 is huge. Meanwhile in gen7, megagross would have been dominant with the addition of terrains. Mega Metagross can be simply put as 'Broken' with every terrain helping it somehow; Grassy Terrain helps with recovery every turn and half the damage from EQ, Misty Terrain saving it from Will O Wisps, Psychic Terrain for boosted power with Zen Headbutt and immune to sucker punch, Electric Terrain for that added thunder punch to two shot Skarmory and Slowbro. But right now, there are enough checks and ways to deal with megagross even though it's performance is top notch most of the times. Discuss one of the current PvP bans and explain why it is deserved or undeserved. Mega Mawile:- Mega Mawile honestly deserves to just go somewhere else. It's typing is ridiculous, with access to Pre Mega ability Intimidate let's it set up easily on a lot of pokemon. It has a great movepool, going with Play Rough, Fire Fang, Swords dance, Knock Off, Sucker Punch, Iron Head. It doesn't have much switch ins considering -1 252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 112+ Def Landorus-Therian: 163-193 (42.6 - 50.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery. Lando-T can only come out once after rocks. 252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zapdos: 222-262 (57.8 - 68.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery; has to go on a mindgame after with whether Mega Mawile will Play Rough or Sucker Punch, as you don't want to be in the receiving end of Play Rough when you roost and you die, Sucker Punch on your Heat Wave and die, 0 SpA Zapdos Heat Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mawile-Mega: 172-204 (71.3 - 84.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO do this and still die to play rough. 252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 96+ Def Slowbro: 306-362 (77.8 - 92.1%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock. That's not it considering if your only Mawile Switch in is Slowbro, Mawile can simply set up Swords Dance and threat to Ohko. There really isn't enough to deal with Mega Mawile except if someone runs Arcanine with Intimidate and Will O Wisp? Considering competitive Pokemon is a team game and Mega Mawile just has a huge impact with a well built team around it, as it is pretty easy to build a solid VoltTurn around it. Mega Mawile destroys stall entirely unless you slap a Quagsire in it, considering +2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Fire Fang vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 304-358 (91 - 107.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock. Quagsire still can't though; +2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Quagsire: 222-262 (56.3 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery. It's lack of speed and not as much versatile makes it not too entirely 'broken' but still a reasonable ban.

The PvP Council is the entity in charge of overseeing the competitive side of PRO PvP. It currently caters to the higher end of the ladder, especially the top 25 players from each server, as well as ladder tournament participants. While we acknowledge that ladder tournaments display a higher skill cap, we cannot deny that the majority of PvP matches are played on the ladder and that the decisions of the PvP Council will impact the entire community. To promote an optimally healthy and competitive PvP environment, the PvP Council must take the necessary tiering actions when something is proven to negatively impact both the ladder and tournament play. This stems from the belief that it first has to become problematic before reaching a ban-worthy status, although exceptions, namely quick bans, can be made if the metagame otherwise runs the risk of being seriously compromised. It must be noted that the PvP Council must provide a justification for changing the status quo, that is, the (pre)existing state of affairs. The burden of proof should always lie with the side making a tiering proposal. That party should explain how something negatively affects both the ladder and ladder tournaments and why banning it is necessary. Conversely, said party should explain why unbanning something is possible and/or how it can positively impact PvP. While on the lookout for ways to improve the metagame, the PvP Council should consider different suggestions, use personal player experience, and keep an eye on new metagame additions. This period of scrutiny and informal observation should be followed by discussion surrounding the potential issue(s) to exchange arguments favoring or opposing metagame change(s). Following the debate period, the PvP Council should internally vote to determine whether any adjustment(s) should be made and, if so, what course(s) of action should be adopted. The bulk of these conversations takes place in the PvP Council channels of the official Pokémon Revolution Online Discord server. For further information regarding the PvP Council structure, please take a look at this thread: Introducing the PvP Council. Even if you do not meet all requirements, you may still be eligible for the Council position. However, overall, PvP Council applicants must: Have an extensive knowledge and understanding of the PRO PvP metagame. Be able to communicate and debate PvP matters in English efficiently and fluently. Have a relatively clean infraction history, particularly in relation to rank boosting and general behavior, as the infraction history of each applicant will be reviewed. Have an extensive PvP experience in PRO. Carefully follow all the rules of the official Pokémon Revolution Online Discord server. If you are interested in joining the PvP Council, please fill out the application form below and post it in the PvP Council Application section of the forums. We ask that you keep your application confidential and avoid sharing your answers with other members of the PRO community. Moreover, helping other applicants with their applications is not allowed and will result in the rejection of your own application.

6m.