Eric66

Discussed Item : Protean Greninja Course of action : Testing Justification : 1. Protean Greninja might be a big thread to balanced teams, as it was mentioned, stall teams and hyper offense teams could deal with it. With Keldeo being in the centre of the meta, and it is basicly used on almost every single team on higher ranks, it is a pretty simple counter to Greninja. Also, as it was mentioned, the most used tanks, such as Ferrothorn or Rotom-Wash can check it is moveset, and it can be predicted after the first move. 2. Getting back to the game since Protean Greninja ban, I could see a lot of Weavile in the ranked mode. Weavile is just one of the few pokemons in the current meta that can out speed Greninja, and Ohko it. Other than that, Keldeo, Scarf Landorus can outdpeed and kill it. None the less, the introduction of all mega pokemons, we got Mega Alakazam, an extremely fast and strong pokemon, just like we got Mega Manectric and Mega Lopunny. They are all faster and can easily kill Greninja. 3. Stall teams. They are most likely can afford to defog, and check it is moveset, that lead to advantage over your opponent. Even if the enemy Greninja has HP Grass, and kills Rotom - Wash, you will have the advantage, due to knowing, or atleast having a good guess of it is moveset Hyper offense teams. In these teams, priority moves are necesarry. They are there to deal with faster pokemons, and Greninja isnt an exception. +2 Bisharp can easily 1 hit ko Greninja. These teams often include Keldeo, so it is another solution to deal with it.

Trolling not going to move this topic forward. Inferanepa will pick up kills even without protean. It is in a solid speed tier so theres no problem with that. Super effective moves will kill the opponent mon, especially since Infernape has high Atk stat.

So you can always run hp ice. You can always run psychic poke. You cant afford it every single time. Gen7 is not healthy at all. Atleast not the teams that are 100% meta. Its not idiocy, I just can see the stall rising again. Even more. But this isnt about stall now, lets put it aside. Toxapex with regenerator ability, moves like baneful bunker makes it extremely annoying. Skarmory was just 1 example, players will surely find a way for a "better" stall pair. Players bringing up Garchomp, Gliscor, Zapdos, Tornadus. Without protean, they would All die without exception to Ice Beam. Gliscor 4x weak, Garchomp 4x weak, Zapdos and Tornadus 2x weak to Ice. Why not bringing calculations that are not super eff3ctive against opponent mons? Theres no logic behind this, beacuse we could ban each and every offensive mon, beacuse they can kill several pokemons. Specially with the right moveset.

Hello. I would like to buy the Metagross for 1.5m if its possible

They stated focus blast that can miss. They use the word if. Theres no if in pokemon. So this goes to them too.

In this case, theres no argument. Greninja is the same braindead pokemon as the rest, with moveset we already know. Different teams, different tactics. You cant say this should be the only moveset, beacuse its not true.

They are all cancer walls. You guys say Greninja is unhealthy, why these mons combined are unhealthy. Its not possible to protect stall this much.

So Greninja cant miss Gunk shot. Greninja cant miss Hydro Pump. Greninja cant miss any move that has less than 100% accuracy. If its misses, the same result, free kill. And its a miracle, but loses hp to hazards too.

Same thing. We run out of opinions, we make it personal. Im not sure, if you ever heard about Showdown. I do, and thats why I stated, that if Greninja is banned due to being broken, than we dont need tapus, and we dont need toxapex. Obviously, they will be added. But Toxa makes SD real cancer, you never know, when you encounter it. It pretty much forces you to have atleast 1 pokemon that can deal with it, and combining it with stuffs like Lando or skarmory, EQ will do nothing, beacuse they will easily switch out, and gain momentum. Yeah, I want Tapus too. I want to see what ppl will say, when Tapu+Lucha combo will break the pvp. Or just simply Tapu Koko under rain, having access to Volt Switch, and easily gain momentum.

Thats the problem. You guys say Greninja is broken, but at the same time saying we need Tapus and stuffs like Toxapex. No, we dont need any of them. How are you going to deal with Tapu Kokó under rain? How will you deal with scarf Tapu Lele without prio moves? Tapu Koko is just straight broken under rain, hits like a truck, not even talking about the fact it can be physical/special or mixed. Toxapex is the most disgusting pokemon ever created, we dont need it here to be paired with things like skarmory. Magearna can not be killed with magnezone, it has access to volt switch, its easily going to gain momentum. We really need them? People are pissed over this ban, beacuse we know this wasnt fair at all, and stating that we gonna get them back, when more broken pokes going to come is not gonna lead anywhere. We need it back, and we dont ask tapus and/or toxa, thank you.

I thought about offensive mons so many times. Things like bisharp, breloom, offensive lando, drago, garchomp, they will all die to any super effective move. But they take a good amount of damage from other moves too, unless they resist it, or doesnt effect them, like poison type move steel pokemon. Obviously, hyper offense will not tank, it will try to set up, and finish it. Offensive mons in balanced have a switch out to any more defensive mon, or you can hope that they dont predict your switch to another offensive mon. But just like in all other cases the word "IF" is there, while in pvp theres no if.

So its gen7 mechanic, I see. Just like Greninja in OU. I dont see the reason why couldnt they just made a complex ban, instead of ruining many player's team or fun in pvp. Its related and not related at the same time. We saw that complex ban work perfectly, we could do the same with Greninja too,but they rather took it away.

Ok, so you think only thix exist and everything else is hard troll. With anything else, Greninja seems to be balanced. I saw that the main threat was Greninja with spikes. Than why not ban Protean Greninja with spikes? Just like we used to have the Gliscor +defog ban in the past. They could easily just ban that, but still didnt do it.

Okay, so lets check this Greninja ban in a whole a bit. Huge movepool and fast. Now lets check things like Dragonite. Its just an example, dont ban it. It has access to the elemental punches, iron head, to fire, fighting, ground, rock type moves beside the dragon and flying type moves. Also it has access to dragon dance. Since we stated many things with If, than lets use it here too. Enemy used dragon dance with Dragonite. You bring out something like Ferrothorn,since you are hoping its doesnt have Fire Punch. Next turn, your ferro is gone, since Drago used fire punch. Ofc, you can bring out a Clefable. It can have Iron Head, and your Clefable is gone. So basicly theres no good switch in for it. Its ability makes it survive a physical move, and even special moves, unless its ice or dragon type move. This could make Dragonite a huge threat too, and still allowed in pvp. Ofc, stealth rocks can be up, but we know, that Dragonite users will player around with that defog. But Dragonite is just one of the few pokemon that can suprise enemies, just like Greninja. But of course, this is just an example.

So yes. Community vote was here and there among suggestion. I would take it too, but there are players like him, that would clearly mess it up. This was a calm debate, changing opinions, and someone bargs in, and thinks he will be funny, if he make it personal.

So yes. Community vote was here and there among suggestion. I would take it too, but there are players like him, that would clearly mess it up. This was a calm debate, changing opinions, and someone bargs in, and thinks he will be funny, if he make it personal.

So we are trying to prove its "broken" and "breaking a healthy meta game" with smogon, which is obviously not healthy, it was never healthy, and never gonna be. Above me, facts were stated. They might be true. But theres like 2 words that makes it questionable. What if. Theres no what if in pokemon. Your opponent either have it or not, and you have to figure it out, whether it has it or not. Tho, Im not sure if you read mine or not, but I clearly stated that Ice Beam is 100% there, so you obviously not going to bring out a flying type like Zapdos. I also stated the fact that Chansey not going to die to Low Kick, due to having Softboiled. You gave us a calculation with spikes and stealth rocks up. Why would you let it set up hazards? I mean, every single team should have either a defogger or a rapid spinner. It can 2h ko Chansey after hazard damage, and high roll, probably the highest roll low kick. But lets be honest,what are the chances you get twice in a row the highest roll and your opponent doesnt use softboiled. Basicly 0. Hp grass is not used in ranked. Never saw one, and probably no one used it (sorry if somebody used it here). Rotom wash, even bold, will wall and check Greninja. Thats 100%, I saw it, I experienced it, and my Greninja was nowhere near bad. Regarding to Oda's answer, Mega Alakazam is not gonna get banned? Lets check it, probably the highest speed after Deoxys-speed form. High spatk. It can copy the enemy's ability, so bringing out on a sturdy pokemon will make it harder to play against it. We either get every Gen7 poke at the same time, or we dont need them. As I mentioned before, Toxapex will break this unhealthy meta even more. Of course, it can be killed with EQ. Just like how you can kill Greninja with max 2 hits, since its a class cannon. Tapus going to break the game even more. Rest of the gen7 pokemons are fine, of course Magearna is an exception. Greninja didnt made it unhealthy, in fact made it somehow healthier.

I state it at the very beginning. +1 No one wants more that Greninja gets unbanned than me. I saw, read, and heard different opinions on both sides. The for side is that Greninja has unpredictable moveset beside Ice Beam, beacuse its always there. So this kick out all the facts, that things like Zapdos or Landorus can check it. We are left with things like Chansey/Ferrothorn/Clefable/Alomomola. Chansey checks Greninja's Low Kick, even with crit, its not gonna kill it. Softboiled, toxic easily walls it. So that is 1 counter. Ferrothorn runs 2 obvious move, and they are leech seed and stealth rocks. Every single Ferrothorn I faced had Protect, and they used to check it, whether Greninja has low kick or not. With hp fire, you cant do anything, basicly every special mon can suprise you with a super eff3ctive hidden power. Alomomola completely destroy Greninja, while Clefable survive Gunk Shot, while that move is rarely used. Now for the against part. Beside Greninja, I cant really name any other pokemon that can suprise you with moves, beacuse the rest of the meta mons pretty much have the same moveset, and you can easily play around it. Do we really want that? Do we really just want to click a move or switch and play pvp like workers in the factories? Or we want to like have tactics, that can suprise our enemy, or just simply outsmart them with different movesets. People say, that with adding Tapus and/or Toxapex, we might get back Greninja. Do we really want Toxapex? The most toxic stall mon ever created? Do we really want to see more disgusting combos with any defensive flying type? Are we prepared to face Tapu Koko in rain? Or just the Tapu+Lucha combo? Or we want to see scarfed Tapu Lele, with the terrain, that doesnt allow you to use priority moves? Or, we want the other fairy/steel Magearna? That after 1 or 2 shift gear, you are done, unless we have unaware Quagsire, beacuse Clefable gets destroyed. We are using Gen6 pokemon with Gen7 mechanics, and Greninja is banned. Talonflame's ability got nerfed a very long time ago, even tho, they say, we are using Gen6. I look at the ability, and its nerfed, while the change was made in Gen7.

I want to buy a Jolly 31 speed Metagross or Beldum. 3m budget Contact on discord Eric66#2334 Ingame Eric66

Well, thats it guys. Mega Sableye was banned, imo a good one, due to the fact, completely stops stall with its ability. Mega Mawile was meh, atleast for me, never had any problem with it, but can see why its banned. And Greninja? Probably the worst mistake staffs EVER did or will do. Clearly no idea from them, the fact that they show things against h.o. teams is a joke, that team's main job is to kill as fast as possible and never to defend. Balanced 90% of the time has counter for it, and that 10% is just randomly put together teams. We moved forward with M Sableye ban, but the Greninja ban moved us back way too much. But hey, we might get the tapus soon, and we can enjoy the totally not broken tapu lucha combo, or we wil be able to enjoy the totally not broken Magerna in pvp soon. So in conclusion : keep up the good with with things like M Sableye ban, and do much, much better next time with banning mons like Greninja. Cant wait to see how amazing this pvp season will be. Gonna be the healthiest that this game ever seen.

I feel like something is wrong here. Feeling bad for your opponent is not a thing in PRO. Battle chat is toxic af, or beginner pvp players say gg to each other. Faced Mega Mawile many times, and lost only once due to the fact I let it use sd. And Greninja? Yeah, its a problem, under rain, where hydro is stronger. Out of rain, never had any problem with Greninja. And before you ask it, yes, I faced proper abusers too. Its just the fact that someone above us mentioned, Greninja dies to 2 hit, even if its a resisting move.

In the past 2 months, I barely had enough time to play pvp, but always managed to play a good amount of matches. Before that, 100+ matches were always done, if not even more. Out of every like 20 teams, I met like 2 Greninja. And I didnt just battle against low rating ones, but ladder players as well, and defeated a good amount of them too. And if we talking about same mon/team, I dont think every 3rd game rain is so different. Maybe the sweepers were, but the rest was the same every single time.

Im not getting mad, just stating my facts, just like anyone else in this post. As you said, with Greninja, it is somewhat easier to gain ratings. Now, here is my question. Why is that so bad? Wouldnt be the game more interesting if you see more and more players that can fight for their ratings and not just the same 100 or so players? I mean, we will just have to look at the stats after the next season, and see how much the overall rating going to drop just with Greninja ban. Or atleast that is my prediction. But we will see it

Oh yeah, wrong tier accidently. But not changing the fact, its gonne be next one to be banned.

So you say we have proper council, right? This perfect council was left by many, beacuse their opinion meant nothing in this world, or the worse case, they werent even asked. Greninja is here for years now, and it was never a problem. Megas got released, ppl can build more and more different teams with these mons. And what do we do? We ban them, This circle will continue, and not 2 months later, but a month later, beacuse with these bans, more and more pokemon will stand out of the meta, and they will be a threat to h.o. to stall and these mons will keep getting banned. I still say the same, this stupid ban was the first step going into a dead game, and no one can deny that. Beacuse we are moving to a game, where you either play pvp competitively and force yourself to use the 6 best mon that can put up a fight, or you are screwed. Greninja could give lower rating players some kind of fun, with being able to damage an enemy pokemon, and now, its gone not for higher ranked players, but for the lower ones too. Yes, if you know how to play pvp, you will find a new solution to win games, but Greninja only gave you either a special, a physical or mixed attacker that you could use in almost any situation. And the best thing, ppl show showdown damage calculations. They show us gunk shot azumarill, which is super effective against it. even without changing type, ice beam will kill almost any flying type, without turning to ice type. And you can say, it has huge movepool. Yes, gladly it has, Just like many other pokemon. Look at Landorus, it has a great movepool too, and its not banned. Just watch this, the next banned pokemon will be Mega Medicham. Banned in Gen6 OU, huge movepool, over 500 atk due to ability.