PRO Viability Rankings (PVP)

[Tr3y]

Name: Latios

Current tier: Unranked

Desired tier: S

Reason: You don't see it much due to it requiring so much work but this mon is pretty busted on PRO when the only checks to it (that are commonly used) are Blissey, Ferrothorn, and Tyranitar. Even Blissey struggles against Psyshock Variants when hazards are up or it has taken prior damage. The lack of Pursuit also makes it that much better because it can spam Draco and Psychic without having to worry about being trapped. It also has access to surf so Heatran, Excadrill, and Tyranitar struggle to come in on it. It also is a fantastic defogger because of his ability to force many switches. Here are some calcs that I find important:

 

252 SpA Life Orb Latios Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 208-247 (52.7 - 62.6%)

 

252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Gliscor: 351-413 (99.7 - 117.3%)

 

252 SpA Life Orb Latios Surf vs. 248 HP / 220+ SpD Heatran: 182-216 (47.2 - 56.1%)

 

252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Bisharp: 183-217 (67.5 - 80%)

 

252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Magnezone: 151-178 (53.7 - 63.3%)

 

252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 48 SpD Tangrowth: 441-519 (109.4 - 128.7%)

 

252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hippowdon: 363-426 (86.4 - 101.4%)

 

252 SpA Life Orb Latios Surf vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 172-203 (42.5 - 50.2%)

 

You get the point. I'm not sure why this is even allowed.

 

Will place in A+ for now. Interested in other users opinion as well. I have only encountered 1 or 2 of them since its release in ranked in about 100 matches. discuss

 

A+ is good too as long as it's up there. Thank you for the reply and good luck in your game. :y:

[Expendable99]

Some suggestions here:

Azumarill: Drop Azumarill from S to A+ the thing's good but isn't an S-ranked pokemon. It hits hard but is predictable, especially since its only set is the banded set. It's hard walled by pokemon like Skarmory and if it lacks superpower it gets walled by Ferrothorn. Its lackluster speed leaves it prone to being revenge killed by faster threats. It's not metagame defining like other pokemon that are S-ranked.

Togekiss: Drop Togekiss from A+ to at least A- I really don't understand what Togekiss is doing here. It doesn't beat that much, gets shut down by faster offensive threats, and is weak to status. Its literally only role is to hax opponents to death which isn't saying much. It often fails to break stall if it does not carry heal bel and if dead weight against offensive teams that will most likely have coverage for it.

Weavile: Drop Weavile from A+ to at least A- Stab knock off is good but it basically gets walled and beaten by Skarmory and Clefable. It doesn't get pursuit to pursuit trap opposing ghosts/psychics which takes out a large part of its utility. It also doesn't get icicle crash, so it has to rely on ice punch which is not a great move. It's a pokemon that is weak to stealth rock in a meta where nobody has good hazard removal for some reason.

Magnezone: Drop from A+ to A- shed shell hurt it it pretty much only traps Ferrothorn now. Also I heard hp fire is bugged to be 50 power not sure if that's true or not

Dugtrio: Drop from A to B+ there's not much stuff for it to trap if rocks are up it even fails to trap Chansey. The lack of substitute to safeguard it from Bisharp's sucker punch, the lack of threats for it to trap and remove, and low power with 80 atk and no groundium z make it not the best choice.

Blissey: Drop from A to B+ why would you use this thing it literally takes like 10% more of its max hp than Chansey from literally every attack and has a nonexistent offensive presence such that its 4x super effective ice beam to Gliscor and flamethrower to Ferrothorn are basically just shrugged off.

Gyarados: Drop from A to B+ completely overrated nobody even utilizes the bounce set or taunt, extremely difficult to get moxie going and sustained with its lackluster power, weakness to rocks, and bad bulk. If it gets around 50% it's revenge killed by Talonflame. This pokemon is pretty much only good for story

Jellicent: Drop from A to B the only thing it does is spinblock. It has like no other utility, and is practically dead weight vs offensive teams. It sucks as a bulky water because it takes up that slot, not allowing you to run a viable bulky water such as Slowbro that can actually tank hits. It's ohkoed by like literally every relevant offensive pokemon at +2 so it can't switch into threats, and scald is unable stop Talonflame, which 2hkos it.

Omastar: Drop from A to B+ with the rest of the other rain pokemon specs Kingdra is just better given the immediate power. Omastar also doesn't have great type synergy, especially if you run Kabutops as a physical rain abuser (It's the only one). Doubling down on grass and electric weaknesses isn't very good for a rain team.

Scizor: Drop from A to A- lack of u-turn coded properly hurts it and it loses out on a lot of the momentum it can bring. Doesn't beat flamethrower Clefable and is walled by pokemon such as Skarmory, it's also beaten by Talonflame since it resists bullet punch.

Skarmory: Rise from A to A+ Skarmory walls so much stuff and shed shell being coded means it can still come in and defog off rocks even if the other team has a Magnezone. It is able to phaze pokemon that get out of hand and rack up hazards damage in the process. It has access to spikes, stealth rock, and hazard removal and provides great role compression. The metagame is predominantly physical, and I feel like the best physical wall in the game deserves a raise.

Snorlax: Drop from A to B+/B Snorlax cracks under offensive teams and lacks the power to break through physical walls even after several curses. If it runs sleep talk it misses out on coverage making it even easier to wall, and if not it is easily taken advantage of once it rests. I really don't know what it's doing here.

Staraptor: Drop from A to A- like Azumarill it hits hard but is relatively predictable with choice band. It's worn down very quickly from brave bird recoil and stealth rocks, and gets walled by Skarmory. Plus once it's choice locked it gets revenge killed by faster priority users such as Talonflame since it has bad bulk.

Volcarona: Drop from A to A- Volcarona is a good sweeper, but Talonflame is better. Volcarona is easily revenge killed by the ever present Talonflame, and the fact that you are running Volcarona means that you probably will not be able to run Talonflame as well which provides more utility unless the rest of your team is basically all hazard removal.

Arcanine: Drop from A- to B+ intimidate is good but weakness to stealth rock plus an inability as a physical wall to stop the ever present sand core really hurts it. It also doesn't have very good offensive presence and has worse all around bulk than other defensive threats. (Please don't run offensive Arcanine it sucks)

Breloom: Rise from A- to A it beats everything one on one. Spore is an incredible utility move.

Donphan: Drop from A- to B- it has spin, rocks, and literally nothing else. It doesn't have any recovery, very little offensive presence, and lets Skarmory do whatever it wants for free. If it gets knocked off then it literally can't do anything. It also gets crippled by status conditions. There is no reason to use this Donphan.

Galvantula: Drop from A- to B the only thing it does is set up webs, which it is outclassed in by Shuckle.

Goodra: Drop from A- to B+ it's just worse Chansey that doesn't have any recovery and doesn't get any utility moves such as toxic, heal bell, and stealth rock.

Lucario: Drop from A- to B+ it's a fan favorite but overrated, it's easily walled and gets revenge killed by Talonflame. Fighting types are just not good in this meta which is dominated by fairies and Talonflame. It's also hard to bring in on teams without saccing mons giving its average bulk and typing.

Machamp: Drop from A- to B it's very slow and gets beaten by a ton of common pokemon such as Talonflame, Azumarill, Clefable, Slowbro, etc.

Mamoswine: Drop from A- to B+ it can't break through defensive pokemon, doesn't have boosting moves to try to break through, and if it tries to set up rocks Skarmory can remove them for free.

Medicham: Drop from A- to B+ its stab moves have 90% accuracy which sucks. it also gets walled by Clefable and Slowbro. High jump kick runs the risk of crash damage if a ghost type is switched in. Like all the other fighting types it dies to Talonflame super easily.

Metagross: Drop from A- to B+ Like Goodra it just is outclassed as a defensive pokemon it gets no recovery and if burned it can't do much at all. Sand rush Excadrill especially tears through it. There's just no reason to run Metagross.

Mew: Rise from A- to A Mew just has so many options. 100/100/100 bulk is very good and the fact that it learns every learnable move from tms/tutors means that it has a ton of great support utility options. It has defog, and can put up rocks. With a defensive spread it can take hits and retaliate back with a 4x effective ice beam against dragons. It has wil-o-wisp to cripple dark type switchins such as Bisharp, Tyranitar, and Weavile and is unable to be pursuit trapped.

Milotic: Drop from A- to B it's just too passive, and is outclassed by pokemon such as Slowbro who are able to check Talonflame much better given its higher defense and Regenerator. There's like no reason to use it. You won't be utilizing your bulky water to check many special attackers, the main things you will check with your bulky water are Excadrill and Talonflame.

Quagsire: Drop to Unranked unaware isn't coded what is it doing here.

Roserade: Drop from A- to B+ has toxic spikes and spikes but not that much else. It's outclassed as special attackers by Gengar, which has a more powerful and faster sludge bomb, and Serperior, which has a more powerful and faster leaf storm. It doesn't have the bulk to pull off a good hazard stacking set. It has sleep powder, but it's outclassed in that to by spore users like Amoongus and Breloom. It's basically just outclassed in everything it does, no reason to use it.

Serperior: Rise from A- to A what is it doing here it's so much better than everything else in this trash bag of pokemon that's called the A- rank. It lacks power in the beginning, but once it gets going it's hard to stop. It's revenge killed easily by Talonflame, which is one of its only checks and the one of the only things here keeping it down. It's the strongest grass type attacker and definitely doesn't belong in A-.

Venusaur: Drop from A- to B- it is outclassed as a defensive grass type by Amoongus and Ferrothorn. It has bad defensive stats for a defensive pokemon and a bad offensive presence. In fact, after a calm mind boost Clefable isn't even able to be 2hkoed by sludge bomb. This pokemon is outclassed and doesn't do much for a team, and has nothing going for it besides being a starter.

Weezing: Drop from A- to B-/C+ this pokemon is garbage, and the only thing it has going for it is levitate. It doesn't have any recovery besides pain split and lefties which is very unreliable, it's very easy to wear down, and has little offensive presence. Flamethrower literally can't 2hko Ferrothorn if Weezing is seeded. It loses a ton of its utility if it is knocked off. It like does nothing except come in and take 80% in order to have a chance to burn Excadrill and get koed the next turn.

 

I'm tired and I'll run through the rest later. Would love to drop more stuff.

[Enforcer]

^ ill review the list you posted. I will also want others opinions.

 

 

Also added Feraligatr to A- and Sylveon to A, neither was ever placed in a tier prior to now.

[Dawtz]

First of all I think the S tier is too small, five is a better number I think. Therefore I think we should add

Gengar for being number one used on blue server, yes theres answers but theres answers for everything. I think with no pursuit being in the game this pokemon is deserving of being on here for sure.

Bisharp this pokemon terrifies me, sucker punch and swords dance together is the stuff of nightmares.

 

A few more suggestions:

Blissey: I really think this pokemon should be A+ or chansey should be dropped to the same tier as blissey, they are too similar to be different tiers.

Breloom: this should be an A, spore with such high speed is so annoying, theres not a lot of answers to it besides gengar celebi maybe goodra and talon

Mew should be upgraded to A I agree with expendable

Reuniclus should be added to the list I suggest B+ only because its so hard to get as of right now. It has better stats than clefable with worst typing.

Umbreon should be ugpraded to A- or B+ hes a lot better with foul play, great counter to some of the swords dance users.

Celebi and Raikou both to A with reroll tickets I believe all 600 stat legendaries should be A

Serperior to A, I agree with expendable on this one

 

My downgrades these are most down-gradable pokemon on the list, maybe one or two tier rankings down I'm not exactly sure.

 

Gyarados: I'm always so happy to see this on the opposing team, its easily manageable and there is just better water pokemon out there (just a worst version of lots of things primarily dragonite)

Milotic: same reasons expendable listed

Weezing: It's stats are just so low

Omastar: Rock typing just makes this worst than kingdra and its infinitely harder to get a good one than kingdra (if thats a consideration on the rankings)

Galvantula: I think this also does nothing, just like what expendable said

[Expendable99]

So now onto the B+ tier...

Drop Dusknoir down to B or below it's just not a very good pokemon it has good defenses but is held back by an awful 45 base hp stat. It doesn't have the best offensive presence, even failing to OHKO Gengar with shadow sneak. It has bad recovery, since it has only leftovers and pain split, and fails to do anything to Talonflame, which is a pretty important pokemon to check for a physically defensive pokemon. Its ghost typing doesn't do it many favors, since it doesn't provide many useful resistances and leaves it weak to dark type which is a pretty common type. Because of its bad speed stat it can't wisp before it gets hit, leaving it easily KOed

Drop Jolteon and Galvantula to B electric types are pretty awful in this meta. Jolteon's fast but doesn't do much and is outclassed as a special attacker by Gengar. Magnezone's a much better electric type, and with a scarf it's pretty much as fast as Jolteon. Again, Galvantula is just awful and doesn't do much.

Rise Mandibuzz to A- it's generally outclassed by Skarmory as a physical wall due to Skarm's superior typing, ability, and hazard setting but its typing and better offensive presence with foul play give it a niche over Skarm. It's better able to handle Gengar since it can easily switch in on a shadow ball and does a good amount with foul play, and doesn't rely on being hit first to nuke a boosted target.

Drop Poliwrath to oblivion what is this thing doing here it's absolute garbage.

Drop Xatu to B Espeon is just better Xatu that isn't dead weight against every team that's not stall since it's faster. This pokemon is best used as a sync for better pokemon.

Rise Chandelure to B+ an exceptional 145 special attack stat as well as great ghost/fire stabs do not deserve to be in B. However, the lack of trick means it is still unable to cripple special walls such as Chansey, which holds it back. It defenitely should not be lower than Arcanine, though

Rise Chesnaught to B+ it has a really nice niche in literally being immune to Gengar. It has good recovery in synthesis and is able to set up spikes. However, its 4x weakness to flying definitely holds it back in being a defensive threat.

 

Everything else in the B tiers and below is basically just utter garbage that I'm not gonna bother to talk about.

 

Also, on the new additions:

Drop Feraligatr to B+ it has sheer force which is really nice and compliments its decent moveset but aside from that it doesn't have much. Base 105 attack and 78 speed aren't very good for an offensive pokemon. It's easily walled by common defensive threats such as Ferrothorn and really fails to do much to pokemon such as Azumarill.

+1 252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 121-143 (34.3 - 40.6%) -- 47.4% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 81-96 (23 - 27.2%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery

Drop Sylveon to B+ Defensively, I don't know why you'd use it over a pokemon such as Clefable or Chansey. Offensively, it's pretty slow, pokemon like Chansey will wall it, and chances are it won't have HP fire to break through Ferrothorn.

[Tenshichan]

i totally agrre that azumaril should be dropped from S to A+, too many counters and ferrothorn is on every second team anyways, it is slow and predictable also not that often seen nowadays

[Imtrippin]

Mandibuzz should definately be moved up to at least A imo. It beats almost every atker in the game, it has defog + offers toxic which is one of the best cripple moves imo, especially on blue where heal bell/aromatherapy is barely used.

 

Also I don't understand why Chesnaught is so long down. H.a chesnaught completely walls gengar in pro unless it has icy wind. It's a strong tank whether you build it as impish or careful and even if drain punch is banned, it's still a better options than some of the pokemon you posted higher up in the list. I understand that it's pretty much impossible to get a good one right now, but it's still a viability list, and Chesnaught is definately more viable.

[Pravin777]

That is good for our more knowledge about PvP thnx ☺☺☺

[Enforcer]

i totally agrre that azumaril should be dropped from S to A+, too many counters and ferrothorn is on every second team anyways, it is slow and predictable also not that often seen nowadays

 

Ill give you the slow(but has aqua jet) and predictable. However, its still immensely popular on red server, is easy to obtain a very good one, beats all sand mons, does very well agianst rain bar ludicolo, and can always run superpower if the user has no fero answer, and only a handful of mons can resist both its stabs. Ive seen bellydrum, assault vest , and band sets all have success in the top 25 of red server. Also cant forget the ever coveted fairy typing.

[Debyond]

thanks.