Ban Kyurem white and black

[Envymeister]

37 minutes ago, shunsou said:

do we have to play chansey every match and set draco meteor for defoger lati? what if oppo pursuit them?

kyurem black easily beats almost all defoger/spinner and that what ppl crying about ninja can do spike and hurt them so much. its not comparison. to me its about the same capability to rekt these things and work close same as wallbreaker, even safer to switch in to most defogers and walls that ninja even wont do

 

Hmm Ferrothorn, M Scizor are super viable picks that Kyurem Black is unable to break if not carrying HP Fire. 

Also with that logic, some of the best wallbreakers in game would also to be banned. Flawless logic you have there. We now do have a council, where u can assure if something would be giga broken would insta ban it. If its allowed, means Its not broken. 

Edited June 9, 2022 by envymeister

[Shunsou]

6 minutes ago, Norex said:

You dont give any arguments on banning them other than showing their raw base stats. (Not to mention Kyurem-White was already banned before it was even released...)

 

To give you an example why raw base stats dont always mean its overpowered: Kyurem-Black has 170 base ATK but no viable physical STAB Ice move which is a huge aspect which you can not ignore while looking at its base ATK and stats in general. Kyurem-Black is strong but not overpowered at all.

 

To list some further weaknesses and how to counter it better:

 

- Weak to stealth rocks

- Gets worn down quickly when running life-orb to keep it versatile

- 95 base speed is good but not insane for a wallbreaker so it can be revenged-killed, especially when locked into moves like Outrage or being choice-locked to boost its power

- Weak to common typings like steel and fairy + 5 weaknesses overall

- Weak to rather common priority moves like Bullet Punch and Mach Punch

- It cant carry all moves to counter every pokemon: Fusion Bolt, Ice Beam, Earth Power, Outrage, HP Fire, Subsitute

-> scout for the moveset, keep your fairy and steel type healthy

 

(I am no PvP expert so dont take criticise every word to harsh)

weak to stealth rock is good point, but it also if they can do the set when almost all stealth rocker in pro meta beatable with this poke, setter and defogger almost have no chance to do the job, and it sure kyurem user will have defoger/spiner aswell

life orb to keep versatile will be same case for ninja but it still banned, and most ninja players used expert belt afaik

122 base speed indeed so great for a sweeper, and is it that hard to revenge? i think, it cant even ohko zapdos rotom and once they hit they deals so much damage to it, and the rest hp should be not that hard to clean, with current meta so many tornadus i guess it even can make easier, and lots of scarf pokemon played in pro, faster megas and priority moves

indeed kyurem has lot of weakness, but so far i know, non of them can ohko this thing, and it has almost all coverage move to face them 1v1

252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kyurem-Black: 228-270 (58.3 - 69%) -- guaranteed 2HKO. but i dont think healthy minded player will stay vs full hp conk

252+ Atk Technician Scizor-Mega Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kyurem-Black: 240-284 (61.3 - 72.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kyurem-Black: 306-362 (78.2 - 92.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

the bulk also aint a joke to revenge hit these counters

 

im also not pvp expert either, its just my own opinion by my own vision, not offense to anyone aswell. i got bullied everday in discord already so i avoid to offense ppl. just pokemon

[Shunsou]

6 minutes ago, envymeister said:

Hmm Ferrothorn, M Scizor are super viable picks that Kyurem Black is unable to break if not carrying HP Fire. 

Also with that logic, some of the best wallbreakers in game would also to be banned. Flawless logic you have there. We now do have a council, where u can assure if something would be giga broken would insta ban it. If its allowed, means Its not broken. 

not everyone can have hp fire kyurem, agree, but can they bring something like heatran magnezone or helmet chomp zapdos. lemme ask you if you face team like this.  will ur scizor using bullet punch to kill kyurem?

we have council i know, and is it wrong to debate in another place? or maybe councils want join debate will be better for us

[Shunsou]

and please stop just mach punch it bullet etc, this option too good and cool for me. you can do same to ninja, what can i do. but why not? because u cant. switching always can be option and ur mach punch not always landed to correct target. try to keep the counter survive until end the match, and they do the same

[Lasss]

1 hour ago, Norex said:

You dont give any arguments on banning them other than showing their raw base stats. (Not to mention Kyurem-White was already banned before it was even released...)

 

To give you an example why raw base stats dont always mean its overpowered: Kyurem-Black has 170 base ATK but no viable physical STAB Ice move which is a huge aspect which you can not ignore while looking at its base ATK and stats in general. Kyurem-Black is strong but not overpowered at all.

 

To list some further weaknesses and how to counter it better:

 

- Weak to stealth rocks

- Gets worn down quickly when running life-orb to keep it versatile

- 95 base speed is good but not insane for a wallbreaker so it can be revenged-killed, especially when locked into moves like Outrage or being choice-locked to boost its power

- Weak to common typings like steel and fairy + 5 weaknesses overall

- Weak to rather common priority moves like Bullet Punch and Mach Punch

- It cant carry all moves to counter every pokemon: Fusion Bolt, Ice Beam, Earth Power, Outrage, HP Fire, Subsitute

-> scout for the moveset, keep your fairy and steel type healthy

 

(I am no PvP expert so dont take criticise every word to harsh)

EXACTLY!!

[Envymeister]

28 minutes ago, shunsou said:

and please stop just mach punch it bullet etc, this option too good and cool for me. you can do same to ninja, what can i do. but why not? because u cant. switching always can be option and ur mach punch not always landed to correct target. try to keep the counter survive until end the match, and they do the same

Hm can we stop compating pokes to Greninja? xd literally no pokmon has acess to a wide movepool, that can carry Spikes! and has Protean as ability. Literally you simply cant put Greninja on the same bag as pokes like Kyurem. idk why ppl still on this. Im stop replying to this posts. I cant give long walls of text explaining something like Jorogumo, but to keep it short. Yes Scizor can Bullet punch it, yes Scizor can easy wall KyuremB (no hp fire), so ofc that can be stated as a check to Kyurem.
Stop stating, but greninja this, greninja that, when you dont even understand the reason why Greninja got banned. 
Im state what Flap, council member, said:
""Can handle" is an overstatement. HO is the most glass cannon archetype, so their Pokemon, despite some having priority, in general drop to one move from Greninja. Versus Stall it can always spike, so it will never lose momentum. In this current metagame, with the Pokemon that are available, Greninja is not fair. Feel like the thing that most players that want Greninja unbanned today are missing, is that they don't realise just how the value and mileage increase exponentially with the skill of the player that's using it. A well played Greninja is far superior to an averagely played Greninja, unlike Pokemon like Meta Metagross and Mega Medicham, among others, like Stall Pokemon, where being used by a top tier player or a casual ladder player doesn't vary that much. Don't expect many to understand this point, just wanted to put it out there. Being forced to pivot to scout for the moveset is already a sign of strength. Plus you'd have to have team members to pivot to and from, which constricts teambuilding. The introduction of Z-moves would also buff Greninja as it could run Z-Hydro, Z-Low Kick or Z-Grass Knot. Only with the increased power creep from Gen7 will this one be unbanned."

[Shunsou]

26 minutes ago, envymeister said:

Hm can we stop compating pokes to Greninja? xd literally no pokmon has acess to a wide movepool, that can carry Spikes! and has Protean as ability. Literally you simply cant put Greninja on the same bag as pokes like Kyurem. idk why ppl still on this. Im stop replying to this posts. I cant give long walls of text explaining something like Jorogumo, but to keep it short. Yes Scizor can Bullet punch it, yes Scizor can easy wall KyuremB (no hp fire), so ofc that can be stated as a check to Kyurem.
Stop stating, but greninja this, greninja that, when you dont even understand the reason why Greninja got banned. 
Im state what Flap, council member, said:
""Can handle" is an overstatement. HO is the most glass cannon archetype, so their Pokemon, despite some having priority, in general drop to one move from Greninja. Versus Stall it can always spike, so it will never lose momentum. In this current metagame, with the Pokemon that are available, Greninja is not fair. Feel like the thing that most players that want Greninja unbanned today are missing, is that they don't realise just how the value and mileage increase exponentially with the skill of the player that's using it. A well played Greninja is far superior to an averagely played Greninja, unlike Pokemon like Meta Metagross and Mega Medicham, among others, like Stall Pokemon, where being used by a top tier player or a casual ladder player doesn't vary that much. Don't expect many to understand this point, just wanted to put it out there. Being forced to pivot to scout for the moveset is already a sign of strength. Plus you'd have to have team members to pivot to and from, which constricts teambuilding. The introduction of Z-moves would also buff Greninja as it could run Z-Hydro, Z-Low Kick or Z-Grass Knot. Only with the increased power creep from Gen7 will this one be unbanned."

spike annoying, but will it even matter in every match? and i never asked that letter wall, just pokemon walls.

is fine to not lossing momentum to spike and trade with it life, or it still can kill after spiked? free spike? i hardly doubt that even can happend more than once meet, its not comparison about ninja and kyurem power, but what is in current meta most defoggers and rock setter in pro? can they deal to kyurem? can they deal to ninja? they have same capability to handle them with their own way. and the one make 1 banned just because can access spike then die?

but i think we dont have to back to previous talk about we cant always have fire kyurem, we play 6v6. the wide movepool is limited into 4 same like other but always there a sure move in everything, and its only work well for once meet, or outdrafted

Edited June 9, 2022 by shunsou

[Suz]

Just -1

No comments already my friends have said the valid reason.....

 

[Animesh3011]

-1

LMAO! 

The dumbest arguments in PRO are if something kills stall teams, then ban those. As if that particular pokemon can run every single move to kill every single wall that it faces, without getting only 4 move choice. And bro come on! Kyurem B is just new, this happens with every single pokemon that is introduced in PRO. And after sometime, people know your strategies, your movesets, your pokemon's possible ivs, that's in every single guild focusing on pvp. Then you can check that pokemon better. And don't tell me that someone is going to spend 50k before every single game to get other saved sets. There is a reason kyurem black is OU in both XY and SM in showdown

Edited June 9, 2022 by Animesh3011

[Superhuy13]

-1
reason: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZ-bUsedNLQ