work in progress Bosses are fundamentally poorly designed

[Opdeeznutz]

I am not complaining about the "difficulty" of hard mode bosses. They are not challenging at all, period. Giving their pokemon impossibly cracked out stats is such a lazy and ineffective attempt at creating difficulty and it doesn't work, it just makes them cheap, tedious and frustrating - it pigeonholes players into building extremely specific gimmick teams leaving zero room for actual strategy or creativity. These gimmicks require no thought or skill to pull off, and are 100% failsafe, unless of course you eat a crit to the face after 20 turns of mindlessly spamming boosting and accuracy dropping moves. Bosses are unsatisfying to win against, and when you lose it's not because you made a mistake or need to improve your strategy, it just feels like you got unfairly cheated out of free money solely due to rng.

 

Not to mention how insanely restrictive this system is on teambuilding - it's borderline impressive that there are even fewer relevant pokemon in boss battles than there are in the plain old competitive metagame. It would be nice if the non pvp endgame content actually encouraged more diversity since the vast majority of mons are useless in pvp anyway. I don't have any better ideas for challenging bosses off the top of my head, but gamesharking all of their stats to absurd levels has got to be the worst and laziest one imaginable. Is this really all you can come up with?

Edited May 14 by Opdeeznutz

[Leafstoned]

Tbh when you consider how repetitive boss runs are, it will eventually come down to very specific builds to achieve max efficiency no matter how creative boss opponents teams might get, imo. 

[Raika]

2 hours ago, Opdeeznutz said:

I am not complaining about the "difficulty" of hard mode bosses. They are not challenging at all, period. Giving their pokemon impossibly cracked out stats is such a lazy and ineffective attempt at creating difficulty and it doesn't work, it just makes them cheap, tedious and frustrating - it pigeonholes players into building extremely specific gimmick teams leaving zero room for actual strategy or creativity. These gimmicks require no thought or skill to pull off, and are 100% failsafe, unless of course you eat a crit to the face after 20 turns of mindlessly spamming boosting and accuracy dropping moves. Bosses are unsatisfying to win against, and when you lose it's not because you made a mistake or need to improve your strategy, it just feels like you got unfairly cheated out of free money solely due to rng.

 

Not to mention how insanely restrictive this system is on teambuilding - it's borderline impressive that there are even fewer relevant pokemon in boss battles than there are in the plain old competitive metagame. It would be nice if the non pvp endgame content actually encouraged more diversity since the vast majority of mons are useless in pvp anyway. I don't have any better ideas for challenging bosses off the top of my head, but gamesharking all of their stats to absurd levels has got to be the worst and laziest one imaginable. Is this really all you can come up with?

You're pigeonholing yourself buddy. 0 room for actual strategy or creativity? Please, look at this, some of the teams I use for bosses. Yeah sure, a few use similar debuff Pokemon like Whimsicott, but the point is there are multiple ways to defeat Hard bosses fast if you try without using the so-called 100% failsafe strats. You don't have to follow the now banned Dbond gimmick, or the Baton Pass Power Trip stuff or whatever people use now.

 

We probably used about 14 different mons just with these bosses, so it's definitely not restricting at all, plus these are just as fast as what people use, usually done in 4 minutes. Just as an example, Dragalge was used just so Victini would use HP Ice and lock itself into it, you could argue that Latios or literally any other Dragon-type does the same but what's the fun in that? We even had Flamethrower on Gyarados for Urahara in case of a Frz. Bosses are as fun or as boring as you make them to be. : )



 

Spoiler

Tigerous: https://pokepast.es/394c8198808cbc72

Thor: https://pokepast.es/553d2a7518030b32

Brock: https://pokepast.es/7c78814395da9749 / https://pokepast.es/d0abea3f785a0e83 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXjTmPsG9Ok
Entei Guardian: https://pokepast.es/e3a48c10763b571d - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPyghcDWYZM

Koichi: https://pokepast.es/d73e675c8f0bc0e6 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IBOyfXIyPc

Urahara: https://pokepast.es/bf34d39ddef12723 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5v7XDqm2us

Xylos: https://pokepast.es/2ce6d0db46f87cec - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a90q311pgcQ

Raikou Guardian: https://pokepast.es/0f263c1ef4c4f827

 

Edited May 14 by Raika

[Opdeeznutz]

2 hours ago, Raika said:

You're pigeonholing yourself buddy. 0 room for actual strategy or creativity? Please, look at this, some of the teams I use for bosses. Yeah sure, a few use similar debuff Pokemon like Whimsicott, but the point is there are multiple ways to defeat Hard bosses fast if you try without using the so-called 100% failsafe strats. You don't have to follow the now banned Dbond gimmick, or the Baton Pass Power Trip stuff or whatever people use now.

 

We probably used about 14 different mons just with these bosses, so it's definitely not restricting at all, plus these are just as fast as what people use, usually done in 4 minutes. Just as an example, Dragalge was used just so Victini would use HP Ice and lock itself into it, you could argue that Latios or literally any other Dragon-type does the same but what's the fun in that? We even had Flamethrower on Gyarados for Urahara in case of a Frz. Bosses are as fun or as boring as you make them to be. : )



 

  Hide contents

Tigerous: https://pokepast.es/394c8198808cbc72

Thor: https://pokepast.es/553d2a7518030b32

Brock: https://pokepast.es/7c78814395da9749 / https://pokepast.es/d0abea3f785a0e83 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXjTmPsG9Ok
Entei Guardian: https://pokepast.es/e3a48c10763b571d - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPyghcDWYZM

Koichi: https://pokepast.es/d73e675c8f0bc0e6 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IBOyfXIyPc

Urahara: https://pokepast.es/bf34d39ddef12723 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5v7XDqm2us

Xylos: https://pokepast.es/2ce6d0db46f87cec - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a90q311pgcQ

Raikou Guardian: https://pokepast.es/0f263c1ef4c4f827

 

 

I don't know you and we're not friends, so you can quit it with the patronizing terms of endearment.

These are all exactly the cookie cutter gimmicks I'm referring to, prankster debuffs, fear, baton pass and free setups. For all your supposed creativity all you could put together is a bunch of suboptimal teams employing samey tactics. To call this "not restrictive" is just completely delusional. It's really no more engaging at all than clicking destiny bond 5 times, the only reason that was banned was so people would have to grind more levels and EVs. Saying these bosses are well designed because you can impose arbitrary restrictions on yourself is an absolutely ridiculous argument, especially in an MMO where these rewards are timegated and players are heavily incentivized to maximize their chances of success as much as possible.

[Lyn1311]

4 hours ago, Raika said:

You're pigeonholing yourself buddy. 0 room for actual strategy or creativity? Please, look at this, some of the teams I use for bosses. Yeah sure, a few use similar debuff Pokemon like Whimsicott, but the point is there are multiple ways to defeat Hard bosses fast if you try without using the so-called 100% failsafe strats. You don't have to follow the now banned Dbond gimmick, or the Baton Pass Power Trip stuff or whatever people use now.

 

We probably used about 14 different mons just with these bosses, so it's definitely not restricting at all, plus these are just as fast as what people use, usually done in 4 minutes. Just as an example, Dragalge was used just so Victini would use HP Ice and lock itself into it, you could argue that Latios or literally any other Dragon-type does the same but what's the fun in that? We even had Flamethrower on Gyarados for Urahara in case of a Frz. Bosses are as fun or as boring as you make them to be. : )



 

  Hide contents

Tigerous: https://pokepast.es/394c8198808cbc72

Thor: https://pokepast.es/553d2a7518030b32

Brock: https://pokepast.es/7c78814395da9749 / https://pokepast.es/d0abea3f785a0e83 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXjTmPsG9Ok
Entei Guardian: https://pokepast.es/e3a48c10763b571d - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPyghcDWYZM

Koichi: https://pokepast.es/d73e675c8f0bc0e6 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IBOyfXIyPc

Urahara: https://pokepast.es/bf34d39ddef12723 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5v7XDqm2us

Xylos: https://pokepast.es/2ce6d0db46f87cec - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a90q311pgcQ

Raikou Guardian: https://pokepast.es/0f263c1ef4c4f827

 

Jeez, nice team you got there

[Torarudean]

If you feel boss is too easy and not challenging why not you try figure out to do dungeon? Dungeon is one of the non pvp stuff post game and you can use your strategy and creativity there also provide better reward than boss per weekend. One more thing i dont think the game restrict any team you want to use against boss, you are free to use your own creativity to build team since you mention that you need more challenges just dont use baton pass team as many player enjoy to use it. If you think this pve post game stuff is cheap i recommend you to grind up for dungeon rank and hunting exclusive form. There are multiple dungeon in the game and require though strategy and creativity, so goodluck!

[Raika]

1 hour ago, Opdeeznutz said:

 

I don't know you and we're not friends, so you can quit it with the patronizing terms of endearment.

These are all exactly the cookie cutter gimmicks I'm referring to, prankster debuffs, fear, baton pass and free setups. For all your supposed creativity all you could put together is a bunch of suboptimal teams employing samey tactics. To call this "not restrictive" is just completely delusional. It's really no more engaging at all than clicking destiny bond 5 times, the only reason that was banned was so people would have to grind more levels and EVs. Saying these bosses are well designed because you can impose arbitrary restrictions on yourself is an absolutely ridiculous argument, especially in an MMO where these rewards are timegated and players are heavily incentivized to maximize their chances of success as much as possible.

 

Sure, here's some teams without the stuff you mentioned:

Spoiler

Terminator: https://pokepast.es/37724f793a27dea2
Lorelei: https://pokepast.es/af12b2b146a0bfb7

Lance: https://pokepast.es/f60e2b370fd85f8c
Bugsy: https://pokepast.es/f07a048f520b3244

 

Maybe these aren't the best teams, yeah, but personally for me I enjoyed building a team that works for these bosses that can finish them as quick as possible. Ofc i'm going to reuse Pokemon that I already have, but that's not my point. My point is teambuilding for these bosses aren't as restrictive as you make it to be, plus it's not like these are extremely specific gimmick teams. As an example look at my Brock and Koichi team, you could switch any of the last Pokemon or rain Pokemon out for anything else, the main focus on Brock's team being the rain helping you.

 

Only time I mentioned the actual bosses in my reply was at the end where I said bosses are as fun or boring as you make them to be, never said they were well designed. 

 

So please help me understand this. You don't like Hard bosses because they force you to use gimmick teams. I gave you some teams showing that they don't, but you said they were basically using the same gimmicks you disliked in the first place. Okay so make your own. Right but these boss Pokemon are gamesharked and the rewards are time-gated so you gotta make use of your limited chances. Okay, there's all sorts of resources you can use, the Wiki, a damage calculator, other people, before you make and test the team, right, cause you're not going to get it the first time. Ah but most people would just recommend the same gimmick teams. ?

Respectfully, you're not even making a suggestion in your first post, you're just asking whoever made the bosses to come up with something different. The dungeon thing is a great suggestion from Tora, but these too have buffed up mons.  : (

[Eetaachee]

Still trying to find the "Suggestion" here.

[Diyoso7]

2 hours ago, Eetaachee said:

Still trying to find the "Suggestion" here.

He is attacking your daily bread.

[Eetaachee]

7 hours ago, Diyoso7 said:

He is attacking your daily bread.