Teerav
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Posts posted by Teerav
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This idea of PvP tokens seems complex and unnecessary. Its almost as if you're bored and just wanna create a new currency. And all the restrictions make it confusing.
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I think this is a great idea!
You guys did an outbreak event where some pokemon only spawn on select servers awhile back and I remember players changing servers or making cross server trades, etc, to collect them. It was an fresh change and I think more similar changes would be welcome.
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On 7/9/2021 at 12:00 PM, Qeight said:
but you don't walk in my shoes, you don't spent hours on a case just for the user to go around spread lies, call you a power abuser and get all people riled up against you.
Poor excuse. You knew exactly what comes along with being a Mod / GM / Spawn Editor. Every single member of staff can tell you at least one story of a player harassing them because they couldn't get their way. Every person that has every held a job, specifically retail, can tell you at least one story of a customer or coworker acting irrationally. That's life. That is why I believe you are not fit to be a proper staff member. You do not handle hate or criticism well. You set a poor example of PRO to the community.
In fact, you actually sound like Belzebel right now! You essentially justified your "attitude" because of all the "haters" you have. Imagine that.
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On 6/25/2021 at 5:32 AM, Eaty said:
It's incredibly easy to comment on or judge something from the outside that's why I want to give you some insight.
As far as the moderation is concerned, I'm hardly involved at all. There have been several situations in which I have clashed with moderators or GMs, but it had absolutely nothing to do with a dictatorship. It was more often about rules that are technically not possible. One of them, for example, was to permanently remove players from the game and forbid to create new accounts, which cannot be done with our tools, and I was absolutely against banning someone who had played on a new account without breaking rules. Of course, the other side also had good reasons to hold on to it, but it was impossible. Even companies such as Blizzard cannot prevent that. To say that situations like this make me a dictator while having no idea is beyond presumptuous.There have been situations in which smaller groups within Discord were formed that only [heck]-talked staffs and primarily me. However, this was only made public after they left the team. There were accusations such as "You don't give a heck about moderation staffs cause you unbanned GoldenPikachu", although I would like to mention that this never happened. GoldenPikachu, like many others, only had the permission to create a new account, as we can't really prevent him from doing so.
As for the PvP Council, I would like to speak about this once more.
I made a lot of mistakes there that I wouldn't make again. However, it was originally not intended as a PvP Council, which I also wrote publicly. It should serve as a discussion platform. That many of those involved were outraged that they could not decide/vote for PvP bans on their own is a mystery to me to this day. I don't want to shirk my responsibility here either, some decisions should have been made earlier.
Now Joro is in control of it and I am sure that there are only few who are dissatisfied with it.Well, the argument that players can't give constructive criticism because their English isn't good enough is an incredibly weak argument. There are always ways to express constructive criticism. May it be with the help of friends or staffs who speak the same language. The only reason not being able to express constructive criticism is that you don't have any. And should someone not being able to express constructive criticism because he, she or diverse was too frustrated in that situation, then it's still possible once calmed down.
As mentioned earlier, both Prehax and other staffs have made mistakes in the past and have been confronted for them. This is currently being done by Keita. Should new cases arise, the forum can be used to forward them.As for the mentioned scripter situation, all I can say is that there could only be two possible reasons why this could have happened.
The most likely is that the implementation required new features that were not implemented for various reasons and the other is that there wasn't a good reward system.
Everything else is usually waved through. If there were other reasons, I am open to listen to and comment on them.
I would say that scripters and I work very closely together, as they are often very dependent on dev changes.Honestly, why should I keep scripters from adding more content to the game?
I appreciate you taking the time to reply, there are hundreds of comments in this thread.
Scripter Situation -- I like your answer. Its difficult for me to judge because to me it just passed on, therefore my knowledge is third-fourth handed. Though if there are upset content scripters, it tells me how they were rejected was not to their liking. Perhaps you could review how you reject ideas based on who you are rejecting. Extremely situational and I actually predict its impossible to avoid making a rejection comfortable for anyone with extreme passion towards a specific project.
PvP Council Situation -- I created a thread expressing my opinion on the handling of the PvP Council and how you specifically ruined it.. If you truly want to understand why people felt confused and disrespected I highly recommend you visit and read it.
Opinion on Constructive Criticism -- English not being the first language goes both ways. As someone that only speaks and reads English, I cannot give direct experience on this matter. However, there have been many times I have been misunderstood by staff members because they could not accurately understand my text because English was not their first language. I know staff does allow players to speak their native language if there is a staff member available that can translate, though this is not well educated because its plastered everywhere that PRO is English first and English only. There should be multi-language support in Discord. You should visit a few other gaming community Discord and see how they have theirs setup. To put it bluntly, they are simply better than PRO when it comes to supporting their entire player base through their Discord.
About PreHax -- I voiced my opinion and as a great example of a GM PRO Staff, he voiced his. Many, many, many, many, times for all to learn from. I didn't even have to go too far into the past either. But hey, maybe it is a language barrier? Maybe for PreHax threatening to ban you for critiquing his work in the "wrong way" is just his understanding of English. Or maybe calling people stupid or an idiot when they disagree or provide unconstructive feedback is just how staff operates since he hasn't edited or apologized for his statements. I can't really be sure. As long as he is a member of staff, I have no choice but to associate his opinions and actions as an example of all staff members.
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6 minutes ago, Eaty said:
Heyho, I'd like to pick up on a couple of points that will most likely need a more detailed answer and will receive that from Keita later on.
I think it's a shame what is made of such an opportunity. Many players have expressed that they feel misunderstood and ignored in the past. Because of that, Keita has created the opportunity to publicly address one's own opinions, ideas and problems. Instead of taking advantage of this opportunity that many have asked for, it is used to insult and corner others.
Prehax and many other staffs - I count myself among them - have made mistakes in the past. But to see that players that have been handled with soft gloves complain about staff abuse is quite disappointing.
There were players with more than ten infractions handled by several staffs that called him out for staff abuse while they should have been banned way earlier according to our punishment policy, along with a candidate that used third-party software and got a second chance because of his long playtime.
Of course you are free to complain about Prehax and other staffs, but then please do it properly. Name points, expresse constructive criticism and make suggestions for improvements. A fundamentally aggressive attitude will not get us any further. This counts to both staffs and players.Furthermore, I would like to shed some light on the "ignored" suggestions. We read all of the suggestions posted in the forum. It's just insanely time consuming to answer every thread. Once we plan to implement a suggestion we will add it to the dev to-do list.
There are weeks when I work on PRO for over 12 hours a day. The players often do not notice a lot of this, as it is often about changes that are not visible to the end user but are necessary.
PRO was at a point for a very long time where you could no longer work with the code. This applies to both client and server code. That was because the top priority was to do something that the players can see without considering the further negative effects it would have.
You should all keep in mind how much happened over the past two years.
Don't just hold onto the negative. There will be more progress that we can all look forward to.
This post really only highlights some more issues. It is very common knowledge that you run staff with complete dictatorship, therefore you have the absolute power to improve the player-staff relationship from the top-down.
Since you mentioned Prehax, I have to imagine that a big reason as to why this thread is necessary is because of a post he made literally five days ago that essentially started off by telling everyone to f--- off. Not literally, but that is how it came off. If you have been reading other's comments, I am not alone in that opinion. I am not sure if "five days" is far enough back to look past.
I am extremely disturbed with how you and other members of staff treat insults and non-constructive criticism. Firstly, English is not everyone's first language. Secondly, when someone is upset, being reasonable or responding constructively is difficult. You must take this into consideration when you read someone's complaint. Take a moment and try to view it through their eyes and formulate their frustration. Your quote and Prehax's language from the post linked above gives me the impression that staff immediately dismisses complaints if they are insulting or rude. I believe you will struggle to grow or improve if you constantly dismiss complaints from players too frustrated (or not well-spoken enough) to formulate constructive criticism.
When you say that you spend weeks of 12 hour days on things we do not see, this is concerning. When I was a member of staff, team leads were afraid or unwilling to approve ideas or suggestions because they would also need to be approved by you first. I hear stories of content scripters having passion to code new things, only to be dismissed by you. You need to learn how to distribute work and responsibility. You also need to learn how to trust others. The PvP Council is a great example of you failing to trusting your team. Hopefully you've learned from that experience. And hopefully you learn from this thread as well.
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Wow, 10 pages already. I apologize, I simply do not have the time to read everything so if I repeat something others have already said, then at least its known they are not alone in their thoughts or opinions.
The time it takes for players to get an appeal started / replied to is too long.
SpoilerOver the course of years, I have players come to me venting about waiting for over a week for a reply to their appeal. And I see this complaint often across different sub-communities within PRO. This is ridiculous. Theoretically, bans should only happen when there is significant evidence and staff should be prepared with an opening response at the time they ban someone. I understand it is staff policy to have Moderators or GMs who issue the bans deal with those cases. This is reasonable in the sense that the issuer has the best understanding of the case. Additionally, some bans can only be made due to access to sensitive information. I also understand each case can be unique and requires specific attention. However, there are many common cases that are simple.
I propose for staff to change their policy to allow the moderation team to hand off cases. If the Moderator or GM is so busy that appeals are taking over three days to get a response, there needs to be a lead within the moderation team that communications the charges against the player and hands the case off to someone else. A great example is if a player created multiple accounts (perhaps because they wanted to start the game with an epic starter). A year passed and a savvy GM finally found it. This is a simple case that can be handed off to a moderator that can take over the case without needing access to the sensitive information that was needed to charge the ban.
Staff need to be held to a higher standard and trained how to communicate with the community.
SpoilerThe community is the customer. When staff are communicating on official channels of PRO as a member of staff, they need to be acting as PRO wishes to be seen. Imagine you run a restaurant and a customer tells the cook that the food is not cooked to how they like it and they were rude about it. Would you be proud of your cook for saying, "I have put way too much work and hours cooking this food to be disrespected by anyone, staff or customer alike" loud enough for the rest of the customers in the restaurant to hear? I highly doubt those words will help the situation in any way. If I owned that restaurant, I would be embarrassed with how that staff member spoke to my customer. Even if the food was cooked well, the situation should have been handled better. And if that cook fails to see how their actions hurt the restaurant, they are not worth keeping around.
It should go without mentioning, this extends to Discord. It happens most on Discord. I have seen staff members joke and laugh after they block or ban people. This tells the rest of the community that moderators get a amusement out of banning people. This is not the sign of a healthy community.
You should be extra sensitive with this topic for members of staff that are higher-up and have constant communication with the community. If one of them is not disciplined and gets away with poor communication with the community, it will teach the rest of staff that behavior is okay. And when they are ultimately punished when the "higher-up" wasn't, you are going to have more problems than player-staff relations issues.
And for f***'s sake, get some consistency in your rules across platforms.
Spoiler"Rules for thee but not for me." I see staff using saying f*** in their posts to the community. Even if using in an example, you are still saying it! You cannot swear in game. You cannot swear in forums, except staff can if they want. You can swear in Discord but only some things are allowed. It is so difficult to navigate PRO platforms when each one has a different set of rules. (I proved this point with your multiple Discords by advertising because half of them didn't have a rule against it. Which you retroactively enforced, by the way.) There needs to be more consistency across PRO platforms. I would not be surprised if a player has been muted in game because of swearing, then appealing with the excuse saying that they thought it was okay because they can swear in Discord. And the freedom to swear in Discord has most likely built bad habits for the staff that are now swearing on the forums.
I specifically avoided using names or references because these are general issues that have plagued player-staff relations for a very long time. I would be shocked if Admins were not aware of these issues and do not have any sort of references or knowledge about them. That would be truly a disappointment, because as far as I know, Admins are ultimately responsible for fixing them. Its sad to see an entire thread needing to be created in a manner like this, but when you allow staff to treat the community so poorly, you should not be caught off guard by the magnitude of complaints being made.
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On 6/19/2021 at 6:28 AM, GonZz said:
Your discord link has expired.
Thank you for the heads up! I updated the discord links.
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Would be nice to get a response to this, even if the answer is "not possible." Though if that is the answer, it would be nice to hear alternative solutions to the suggestion.
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For others that are not smart like me, Quick Powder boosts the Speed stat of a Ditto that holds it.
As for the hunting tools, I think PRO has already stated they are against tools like this. I don't have the time at the moment to get references, so perhaps I am mistaken. Regardless, they would definitely be nice QoL (quality of life) tools like other tools in PRO.
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I think this would be really fun, but as many have already pointed out, the struggles and consequences outweigh the benefits. In addition to everything above, adding voice capabilities would most likely be very stressful for the servers of PRO, which already tend to struggle.
Though I would love sitting in Saffron Train Station welcoming everyone to Kanto for the lulz and reactions. But imagine walking into Vermillion PC. >_<
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Just another amazing point from others that I did not think of in the OP; this will decrease queue times for all players and decrease the amount of repeated opponents. I'd like to explain this topic again for others that may still be struggling to understand why this would decrease queue times and decrease the repeat opponents.
Imagine a scenario where members from two different guilds (B and R) are all queuing. Three members from B want to queue (B1, B2, and B3) while two members from R want to queue (R1 and R2). B and R both enforce the q/g system. In this scenario, B1 and R1 will both queue each other while B2, B3, and R2 wait for B1 and R1 to match. Then B2 and R2 will queue while B3 waits for B2 to match. Then B3 will queue to find a match. In every case, there is only two players in queue at a time.
Now imagine the scenario above, except the request this thread is asking for is implemented. B1, B2, B3, R1, and R2 all queue at the same time. Only one may have to theoretically wait a bit longer for someone from outside the scenario to queue. However, B2, B3, and R2 have had their queue time dramatically decreased because they no longer have to wait on B1 or R1 to find a match. And the overall queue for players outside this scenario has improved because the amount of players added to this queue from this scenario increased from 2 to 5.
For coding nerds, if you tackle this scenario like you would with coding, you would always choose the latter because it is simply more efficient. The amount of players added to queue at a given time only increases with the amount of members above one per guild that are attempting to queue at any given time. At no point would implementing this feature decrease the amount of players in queue.
I imagine this type of functionality can only be added to PRO through a Developer, so I hope @Eatyor @Shaolancan take a moment to give their thoughts on the idea. As well as perhaps give an idea of where their would call on their personal priority list and update DEV to-do-list if its acceptable. I personally think the health of PvP is a huge factor for many of the active and vocal veteran community. And this change would be a direct and immediate impact and every PvP focused guild.
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It would be nice to have the option for guild leaders to toggle an option that prevents guild members from finding other guild members in ranked pvp.
It is common practice for many pvp-focused guilds to self-enforce a "queue/game (q/g)" system. For those unfamiliar with the system, it is quite simple. You type "q" in guild chat while you queuing for a ranked pvp match. This tells other members in your guild not to queue so you guys don't have to face each other. You then type "g" in guild chat to tell other members you've found a game and they are free to queue themselves.
Why should PRO implement a guild functionality like this?Spoiler1. Nearly every pvp-focused guild already self-enforces this system within their guild.
2. Its practice has been a potential excuse to hide win-trading or boosting. This is evident in the fact that PRO's official boosting definition includes it and warrants a recent PSA. Being able to track if this functionality was active or inactive may be a helpful tool for PRO moderation.
Why do guilds even self-enforce this system anyway?
Spoiler1. Helps avoid conflicts.
PvP is competitive. PvP in Pokemon is also highly RNG based. The combination can easily stress people out and cause uncomfortable situations for those not mature enough to control their temper. The easiest way to prevent these conflicts is simply to prevent people from playing each other. A guild can simply kick people who are not mature enough to handle a loss against a guild member, but that is not an effective method to stay at the top of the guild ladder. You must sacrifice quality of members in order to be at the top and the q/g system helps alleviate some of the needs to moderate less mature members.I am passively dissing people, but there is a lot of merit to being upset about having to play against a guild member. Imagine it is a few hours before the season ends and you are 420 rating, perhaps just on the edge of top 25 in individual ladder. This is a very tense time for you because there isnt much time in the season to recover rating if you lose. You end up having to play against a guild member who is under 100 rating. Your guild member has absolutely no chance of making top 25 ladder, so they are only playing "spoiler" if they beat you. If they win, you will not be very happy with them. And imagine they win because you got paralyzed three turns in a row. Oof, I bet some of you reading are already tilted at your imaginary guild member.
2. Min-max rating per game.
In a perfect world, your guild members win every game they play. Therefore, every game is an opportunity to increase your guild's rating. If two guild members play each other, there is at best a chance only for a small net-gain and even a chance for a net-loss in rating. You can argue that not having the q/g system means that losing to non-members is a big loss, but most guilds operate under the philosophy that they never lose. :harold:.
3. Allow for more open and honest pvp-discussions and team building.
Many players are competitive on the individual ladders as well, and a selfish mind would never help the competition. Its human nature to put yourself first. However, if you can remove that "my guild member is my competition" mindset when you ensure they do not have to compete against a guild member in ranked pvp. This enables members to speak more openly about their team compositions and strategies, allowing other members to learn and improve at pvp.
A strong argument against the q/g system is playing friends can allow the opportunity for fun banter and opportunities to discuss mistakes and praise each other for good plays. However, this is a fantasy. Pvp is a competitive activity and it will cause people to lose control of their temper and create uncomfortable situations for everyone involved. There is no down-side to implementing this option for guilds. It would benefit all guilds who already self-enforce this system if PRO implemented a system that guild leaders can toggle to prevent members from playing each other in ranked pvp.
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Quote
- Box rework //A general box rework to add more filters, split the boxes, add mass delete and so on.
@Eaty@ShaolanI imagine this cannot be done by a content scripter and falls under Developer. This is on a "high priority" of the DEV to-do-list. Is this still being discussed / planned? If so, how difficult would the suggestion made in OP be to implement?-
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Unfortunately I hear a lot of people complaining about PRO's development priorities, "Why are they adding cosmetics when x and y move aren't even working properly!?" or slightly more reasonable, "Why are they coding a and b when x and y aren't even working properly?!" And I am not excluding myself, I have made my fair share of complaining about decision making and how things are handled. But one thing PRO is really good at is constantly improving. You can argue its slow and buggy, but you cannot deny something is always being fixed, developed, added, or being built apon! It's what I love about PRO and why I ultimately continue to support the community after long thoughts of "maybe I should quit." So I wondered,
What can PRO do to communicate with it's community about what is being worked on and why is being planned in the future?
As it turns out, PRO actually already does a lot to communicate with it's community about what is being worked on and what is being planned in the future.
QuotePRO Discord
If you are not aware of PRO Discord, you should really be a part of that. PRO doesn't communicate on other social media platforms. Maybe the occasional Instagram post, but Developers and Content Scripters of PRO are extremely active in the Official PRO Discord. Specifically you should pay attention to #announcements channel. If you are Discord savvy and run a server of your own, you should "Follow" this channel to your own Discord to help PRO communicate their changes and updates.
Twitch Stream AMAs
My personal opinion, these are not very productive. They are interactive and fun, but its honestly more of the same questions each time and the answers are almost always found on the forums or Discord if you are truly curious. Additionally, a lot of questions answered in the Twitch AMAs can be answered by several staff, CC, or Discord Moderators.
PRO Forums
Right there on the foundation of PRO communication. I am sure if you dig deep into the forums, you could find answers to things, but only if you are searching for them. Instead, I will highlight a few helpful threads you can review or follow.
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DEV to-do-list
This is actually the closest thing you can get to a developer road map. Sadly, I am not sure how up to date this is as you cannot see when it was last edited. It would be best to combine this thread with the READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A SUGGESTION Additionally, the List of broken moves & abilities in pro suffers from the same issue. -
Update Logs, Content Update Logs, News Board
When it comes changes already made to the game, they are typically posted here. However, that doesn't help communicate what is being planned for the future. Sometimes you can kind of guess, like if the developers add new functionality for Content Scripters, but that is just guessing.
So what are some things PRO can do to help communicate with it's community about future updates?
QuoteStep 1: Create a community readable project road map.
I was once a volunteer staff member, so I know PRO management already do this to help themselves stay organized. However, they are designed for internal purposes. You know how you can't find something, but your mom always knows where it is? That's because you don't do any cleaning, so your mom organizes the house for what makes sense to her. For the general community, though, our ape-like brains need simplicity and elegance. This would actually be a benefit to because concepts and deadlines can be simplified to avoid over-promising.
Step 2: Communicate the project road map in a simple way.
Again, our ape-like brains need simplicity and elegance. The project road map should include color matching (similar to how the DEV to-do-list does) and also be ordered (unlike how the DEV to-do-list is). I would avoid anything complex or difficult to keep updated. If you Google "Project Road Maps" images, you are going to find great examples of professional road maps. However, these are not easy to read for the average person. DEV to-do-list is actually a great template IMO. Reorder it. Group them by categories that the community cares about (for example, the community doesn't care if you update mod tools, but does care a lot about pvp or trade related subjects).
Step 3: Include things that will not be added as well.
The pinned thread in Suggestions sub-forum is a great post for things that have already been denied. However, there have been many popular suggestions throughout the years that are still constantly denied. Providing additional context and consistent messaging for popular suggestions that are denied would prove more useful than point-blank denials without much context or history.
Step 3: Keep it updated and easy to find!
As I mentioned in Step 2, it should be formatted in a way that is easy to keep updated so it is not a chore to do so. I would highly recommend making it a forum thread, so any staff member with proper permissions can be delegated to keep it updated. It is important this thread is kept up to date because of my Step 4 suggestion:
Step 4: Train staff and Discord Moderators to link the thread when appropriate!
You must train the community that this project road map is true and referenceable. It also focused a central point of communication. I am sure if you spent a few hours on PRO Discord or in-game after an update with new mounts or cosmetics, you will see a handful of players complain why PRO is spending time making cosmetics when x and y move still don't work properly. Or why they fixed a and b move instead of releasing the new region... In these scenarios, staff and Discord Moderators should respond with "PRO has a diverse volunteer staff force that specializes in different areas. They do plan on releasing a new region, you can view the PRO Road Map here: <link>"
Step 5: Understand the road map is a form of communication, not a promise.
I understand its wise to never over-promise future changes. The goal of the road map should be to communicate with the community that developers have heard the communities suggestions and are acknowledged them. Some parts of the community feel so disconnected from PRO's priorities that they feel PRO does not even listen to the them. I know for a fact that is not true. PRO Developers are stubborn, but they are not deaf or dumb. Spend some time creating a road map FOR THE COMMUNITY, then take half an hour each week to update it.
If you're too lazy to do all that, at least just update the DEV to-do-list so I have something to link to people to prove you guys aren't deaf and disconnected. Or maybe you are and I am hopeful and ignorant.
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On 5/8/2021 at 11:44 AM, Prodigy said:
You know what's the difference? PRO council members are mediocre players outside this game, we don't have people like BKC or Jamvad (just naming a few who are on YT and everyone can appreciate their thought process) here, that's why a poll including everyones vote instead those so called 'experts' criteria will work better in this game.
If I could hand-pick the PvP Council, I would select a diverse set of members throughout the community. Im not talking about race, social background, etc. Like, people who are very social and parts of different "cliques" of the community. Ideally, each member would always be talking to their friends and community before making concrete decisions, ensuring that most of the veteran pvpers within PRO have their voices heard. Kind of like an unofficial Republic.
Without a specific governance or focus on pvp, the proper "polls" or "votes" for the community to have input will never happen. Who decides what polls or votes are run? Additionally, the "BKC" or "Jamvad"s of PRO will have their voices drowned out by the hundreds trying to get the attention of the pollster's ear. What will happen in reality is the pollster will just read the posts of people *they* individually trust and ignore the others because they simply do not have the time to read an asses hundreds of comments. And we will be back to where we were, people complaining that the community is getting no voice.
There simply is no "ideal" scenario. Every idea must compromise with reality and work with the best available option.
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On 4/28/2021 at 9:23 AM, albagran said:
Let's get to what i actually wanna get out of me. I surely am not against regular staff pokemon just to make it clear but i find it pretty unfair that someone is allowed to use a legendary staff pokemon on pvp. This is just overkill to me. Having a legendary pokemon with all perfect IVs and the right hidden power is simply too much. A normal player would need insane amount of luck on the rerolls to get almost perfect ivs with hp.
Before you read my response, I must disclose that I do have a staff reward pokemon.
Staff are volunteers, therefore they are helping PRO during their own time. Much of this time would have been spent playing PRO regardless. During my time as staff, requirements to earn a custom pokemon was varied. In most cases, it took six months to earn a custom staff pokemon. Consider a staff member spent 1 hour a day volunteering, after six months that is 180 hours of doing staff duties. 180 hours spent in PRO could easily obtain a near-perfect pokemon of similar PvP value. If not by farming, then by gather pokedollars through another means. And sure, most staff make their custom pokemon shiny adding value to it. However, custom staff pokemon cannot be traded, therefore it holds no value outside of PvP.
That said, strong pokemon will always give an advantage in PvP and near-perfect custom staff pokemon is truly the ultimate representation of that. Currently, one is only allowed to use up to two custom staff pokemon in Ranked PvP. I think there is an argument to reduce that rule down to only one pokemon, but I do not feel strongly about it to lead that discussion.
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4 hours ago, Yellovv said:
you seem not clearly understand what i'm trying to say. tell me how many of them appeared in top 3 ladder since first wave of mega release. And how many of them played enough games to fully aware about current PRO meta stage. even they got top 20 with 100% winrate doesnt prove that they know what happening within the meta, which make me think top 1,2,3 should be players played enough games and also good at PvP.
This is a valid critique. Council members must be respected by the community in order for it to work. Smogon does this as well. Council member's descriptions should also include links to their accomplishments, otherwise their descriptions are simply "trust me, these guys good haha!" And @Bashis correct about current council members accomplishments. It is easy for him and me to respect them because we have been around long enough to know who they are and their accomplishments. Which is why we need an official post to help people like you know them better.
QuoteAnother thing i'm wondering; is it just me or does somebody else recognize stuff is being added to the game so people spend a shitload of hours into hunting those pokes. They spent all these hours into getting a pvpable pokemon because it's nice or overpowered and it will just get banned from pvp. I doubt it's because there is no research but the intention to waste peoples time on this game.
Quote by @Squad above. (Sorry, Im too boomer to get this crap to work properly.)
This is another huge reason why we need a transparent and open council. It is not healthy for PRO's economy to have such dramatic shifts determined by single announcements. Its a difficult balance that I dont think is possible to please everyone. If the council ever gains true traction, any discussion of "suspect testing" etc. of pokemon etc. will impact PRO's economy. However, at least it will be traceable and some sense of predictability. But again, this topic is very complex and difficult to balance. Players who follow the council can will be able to make better economic decisions. Or decisions in what to hunt. And those who do not follow the council or announcements will be "blindsided" by definitive changes. -
I have been extremely vocal about the failure of the implementation and treatment of the "Official" PvP Council for PRO.
First, we must understand what PRO created the PvP Council for. Its purpose, as defined by PRO is:
QuoteThe PvP Council is the entity in charge of managing and overseeing the competitive side of the game, looking after the meta in lookout for Pokémon, moves or combination that prove to be harmful or unhealthy for it with the help of the moderation team, and decide a favorable approach in order to make competitive more enjoyable and balanced for everyone.
Source: https://pokemonrevolution.net/forum/topic/159114-introducing-the-pvp-council/
Speaking of that post, please review my initial view on this announcement: https://pokemonrevolution.net/forum/topic/159114-introducing-the-pvp-council/?do=findComment&comment=904730
The PvP Council discord started off really well. Council members were discussing every other day or so. Daily activity wasn't necessarily needed, just enough to keep things active. However, it quickly feel apart due to lack of leadership and support from PRO Staff. I'll go through some examples on how leaderships inaction and slow reactions began to lose the councils trust in the system:
Example 1: Council members need to wait 2+ weeks for official responses to requests.SpoilerBelow you notice Keita, PRO Staff Admin, posted on Dec 30, 2020 to let the council know a decision would be made based on a council request within "24 hours". However, it took over two weeks, on Jan 16, 2021 for PRO Staff Developer, Walross, to respond. And the response was a question! The question was then discussed, but Walross never returned to #council-chat to review the discussion about his question. On Jan 30, 2021 a council member tagged Keita asking for response. Keitas response was a screenshot of Walross saying it will be discussed more after Wave Three Megas release. However, his response was given in the #general chat of the discord, NOT #council-chat where his initial question was given.
Example 2: Council members begin to leave the council due to lack of confidence in the system.SpoilerFeb 13, 2021 a council member started to ask to be removed from council due to lack of confidence in the system. Walross response? "Done." Clearly no interest into learning more about why the council member believed the council's opinion "doesnt matter". This easily sends a message Walross doesnt care about pvp council.
Example 3: Walross confirms wave three mega bans, etc, will "most likely" be discussed by the PvP PRO Council.SpoilerTo add insult to injury, immediately after "Done." in example 2, Walross was tagged with a question for a council member which didn't get a response until tagged again over a month later. Note that Walross gave hope to the council they would be heavily involved discussing wave three megas. As per this hope, council began to discuss.
Example 4: More council members begin to express their lack of confidence in the system created.
SpoilerThe screenshot below tells the whole story. Not even a response from PRO Staff regarding council members vocal concerns. Even Keita expresses the truth of the systems failure.
I encourage you to join the "PRO PvP Council" Discord and review #council-chat for yourself. Note the timestamps of #announcements made by Walross. Wave three mega bans discussions where never began in #council-chat by Walross as stated in Example 3 above, leading to Example 4. Also note absolutely NOTHING posted in #council-announcements or #suspect-results-votes as of the posting of this thread.
OKAY, SO HOW CAN WE FIX IT?
Step 1: Move everything in "Pokemon Revolution Online" Official Discord.
SpoilerStart this by creating a new category in the PRO Discord labeled "PvP". Channels should be as followed:
#council-chat -- Viewable by everyone, but only official council members and certain PRO Staff / Moderation can type there.PRO Staff and Moderation should be heavily discouraged from adding input to council discussions unless specifically called on by the council. This can be done by creating a "PvP Council Member" role and assigning proper permissions to the channel. This is very easy to do and I know there are people within PRO Discord Moderations that know how to do this and I trust they could make it happen.
#council-voting -- Designated for VOTING ONLY based on the councils needs. More on this in Step 2.
#veteran-pvp-chat -- Viewable by everyone, but only players who have proven to reach high rating in PRO are allowed to type.
Something that was rightly enjoyed about the separate discord was a "smaller" community of "veteran" pvpers that kept pvp discussions of high quality due to no "noobs" suggesting things like Caterpie to be banned because String Shot is OP. Bad example, but you get the idea.
#pvp-chat-and-help -- Viewable by everyone, everyone can type. Typical chat designed and moderated for pvp discussions and topics.
Easy! This incorporates *everything* this "PvP Council" discord has. Announcements about the council, etc, can be done through #announcement channel already establish in PRO Discord because the council IS PRO related.
Step 2: Re-establish the council to 7 total members. Then have these 7 members vote on appointing a council lead.
Spoilerhttps://pokemonrevolution.net/forum/topic/159114-introducing-the-pvp-council/ did a good job defining and selecting a proper council member. This should be followed when filling the council back to 7 members.
Once that is established, have these members vote on a council lead. The council lead will use their best judgement on when to appropriately start suspect testing and votes on official quick-bans, bans, etc. This is purposefully vague and subject to the council lead. Think about how the council lead got their position. The community must trust that 7 responsible and knowledgeable members are assigned to the council. Then these members vote on their piers to decide who is most responsible and knowledgeable between them. The council lead will ideally be someone that earns this position.
Step 3: All voting will be viewable by the public in #council-voting. Each member has 1 vote worth 1 point, while a member of PRO Staff has 1 vote worth 3 points. Ties are decided by Council Lead.
SpoilerYeah, this is more of a compromise to appease the egos of PRO Staff (aka Wally) who have proven to us they really dont want to let the community dictate their game. With the power of 3 points, it would take at only 2 votes to from council to overturn the majority of the council in favor of PRO Staff representative (probably Walross). But whose opinion would you trust, 6 respectable and knowledgably members of the pvp community plus their pier appointed leader? Or a member of PRO Staff? -- balanced, at least close as we can maybe get to it.
Step 4: Respect from PRO Staff.
SpoilerAgain, the whole idea of PvP Council was awesome. It almost worked, but it was missing on ingredient: Walross's respect. Walross did not respect his own Admin's genuine attempt to please the community by creating a PvP Council. Once he respects it and follows the system, he will stop getting hated on for pvp rule changes. He can blame it all on the council! Less stress for him. More control for the community.
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I'll comment on the part two, Salamencite Quest.
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Enjoyment
- Overall, I enjoyed it! The maps were not excessively long or windy, so the amount of "non-action" was limited. Recent past events involved overly complex or gigantic maps that required unnecessary travel times that made quests feel like a chore more than an event.
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Quest Difficulty
- Good balance! I am really enjoying the new approach of "same concept, but slight different for everyone." Figuring out how to get the Nidoqueen to follow you was not intuitive, but it was simple to do once you figured it out.
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Story/Lore perspective
- I guess I am not as interested in these sorts of things, but this one was really well told imo! The tasks involved added to the story line instead of feeling like a chore, which I think was very well done.
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Effort/Reward Ratio
- Part 1 gave me a randomized valentines Clefable that ended up being worthless and felt like I did it for nothing. The Salamencite was good. Nothing dramatic, but I didn't expect something dramatic. I think something event-exclusive would be better. I enjoyed past events where you would get an exclusive mount. Using those mounts / cosmetics feels good over time because you know others cant get it, adding more value overtime.
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Very cool idea!
I am curious to know if the ball's cosmetics are linked to a constant image, so if you were to ever change the image it would update even for pokemon caught. If so, you could reward first place in guild ladder to have their logo on a "Guild Champion Ball" that's image is updated every month.
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Pretty sure public api and information is low on their priority list. If not, that is what I understood the last time I asked about it. I also realized my "PRO Information" tab was hidden to public on my site! Should be available now.
I love that you've added a repel check.
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App link and a few other things updated.
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Cool project man! Unfortunately it seems like the dumps are being updated much anymore. =/
While it was being updated, I also worked on a similar thing through my guild's app: https://nomercyapp.glideapp.io/
Once you add your username and discord, you can access the "PRO Information" tab from the top left.
It would actually be really cool if the developers released more dumps like for items, pokemon, etc, so we could continue to build on our creations.
+1
OU/UU and AG Random/LC Random rotations?
in Suggestions
Posted
^ My thoughts as well.
Additionally, more styles of "ranked" pvp will add value to more pokemon.