Flaflapt

1 also in Azalea Town, on the way to the slowpoke well. 1 in route 32, where you enter to union cave. 1 in Violet City, near the entrance to Sprout Tower. 1 at the middle of National Park. 1 in Ecruteak City, near the Burned Tower entrance. 1 in Olivine City, near the Lighthouse. Edits: Adding spots.

I bold'ed the ones I think break stall in general. The other mons that I didn't bold can deal with the core of the OP, but wouldn't do much to the other 3 mons if the stall team sinergy was correctly built (let's say that blissey water core + amoonguss + clefable + spdef Exca for example). Goth traps any mon which breaks the defensive core. Bisharp, Clefable, Breloom, Scizor and Togekiss can set up and do some damage. You have other options, like taunt + bulk up/sd/will ho wisp Talonflame, Guts Heracross that appreciates getting status'ed, Crawdaunt also sets up an sd and crushes everything, spdef Gliscor can't get status'ed, sets up sd's and roost's easily on uninvested scalds (just gotta scout for random ice beams).

All ohko moves are banned as you can see in the rules topic.

You haven't met the goddess Gothitelle. :devil:

Had to thank this. The glitch joke was fire tho. :Smile:

I'd also like to know where it was confirmed being coded as for gen4. Ingame, the moves has 60bp and it states "A unique attack that varies in type depending on the Pokemon using it". This is a gen6 description of hidden power. But the video and calcs don't lie, something is off. Can we get an official response ? If hp is gen4 mechanics, then the description should be accordingly to that.

Indeed you are correct sir. Still a bug tho.

Similar to the previous scald burning through water absorb bug, you can still paralyze through volt absorb.

I think it is a visual bug. I tested it with a friend, role played water absorb, went to make a battle with the kadabra (with water absorb) with him, and the water attack did damage.

Just use Magcargo kappa. On a serious note, talonflame isn't OP. Gothitelle should be on the top of the list if anything. :Smile: Being 2x weak to rock requires team support, as a spiner/defogger to not let it come in at 50%. It's a mon that doesn't have clear counters, but you can hard check it with fat mons: Ttar, slowbro, impish gliscor, hippowdon, dragonite, garchomp, any fast electric type. You'll always take damage from it, that's for sure. Be smart on that trade.

They can't close this topic because it's the designated thread to comment on this situation. Toxic replies should edited/deleted. Closing the thread would shut up the community. And you don't want a community angry. :Crazy:

My biggest problem with all this is just the annoucement be like "I'm sorry but those NPC's were removed and you can't trade rare candies anymore." I mean, where are your arguments ? Reasoning ? No explanations whatsoever ? "Do not reflect the direction and vision intended", well, what is the direction and vision intended ? Not allowing rare candies be tradable will not do anything good, by the contrary, you just created the rare candy service which is gonna incentive scams and higher prices for rare candy usage. No one was using the NPC, he wasn't an issue AT ALL, digging and pokestops available for all players allowed a BIG supply of rare candies so the price wouldn't never escalate. Actually the NPC set a limit for 20k a piece just in case a monopoly were to happen (which would never happen). The Focus Sash NPC I'm really confused about. I thought it was added by request of the community. But it's a pvp mostly item, so if the vision is only making pvp items available through pvp coin master, like you're probably going to do the same thing for choice items, I sort of get it. It's just gonna be a pain for new players, like myself, who didn't started pvp'ing yet, gonna have to fight with sticks versus players with guns to get to the top25 to eventually buy the items which help you rank up and stay up there.

Just in case there isn't some confusion with "each hit", multi-hit moves like pin missle, rock blast, etc, the recoil from life orb is always those 10%, regardless of hitting 2 or 5 times. Thanks Shane for these bug fixes and new items all back to back, keep up the great work. :y:

Appreciate all the feedback that was given in this topic. Since no one posted in the last 24h, I'm gonna have to ask the staff a couple of things: 1- Are you there ? xD 2 - Is there someone specific responsible for PvP management so that I can address that person and not just call it "staff" ? 3 - Is the staff gonna make a stand about this ? Ban/not ban/let it play out ? 4 - If Goth gets used and abused, will the shadow tag clause be considered ? 5 - What are the criteria for something to get banned (besides crashing the game or not working as it should) ? 6 - If something were to be banned, does the staff flat ban (or refuses to ban) out of their own will or are the top players kinda "consulted" about the issue at hand ? Like suspect tests in smogon. I know PvP is still under developed and I know this isn't (not even by a long shot) top priority, but I believe that this game can only keep their players if a pvp community is estabilished (when all abilities, items, etc are working). When that happens, probably there'll be more official PvP tournaments and these kinds of issues should be addressed to avoid a toxic metagame. Players will use every dirty trick in the book to get the big prize and no one can blame them.

My man, "part of the game" isn't an argument. This is about balance and the effeciency/cheapness of Goth. Spore is also a part of the game, but there's a sleep cause. Swagger is a part of the game, but there's a clause for it. Baton pass is a part of the game, but there's a clause for it. The rules were made for a reason, sometimes I feel people forget that. One knock off from a Bisharp and the Goth is dead, as with usually the case if not a full health Goth from a sucker punch Weavile, and considering how frequent they are in this meta, its not exactly "hard" to cause Goth an issue, yes shadow tag is OP at the moment due to the amount of viable pokemon that give it a free setup but its not impossible to beat a Goth and your comment there is acting like its Arceus, its easily beaten and its not exactly only got non-pvp-worthy counters, Bisharp and Weavile are in pretty much every team. I would answer, but I wouldn't add much to what other people said. In summary, the way of dealing with it is you can only hope to revenge kill it (if it stays in vs a Crawdaunt/Bisharp/Weavile/Heracross). If the Goth is Resto Chesto, Knock off isn't an option to revenge kill it. With no Pursuit, it can always get away for free. This isn't about Goth being impossible to beat, you're not seeing my point. Goth is beatable. The problem is you have to sack almost half of your team to get rid of it (the trapped mon, the mon that can't revenge kill it but does decent damage for the 3rd to ko it, judging it doesn't switch out ever). A pokemon that gets free kills with free set up, not revenge killable, imo is a broken mon.

Oh you got me wrong, I haven't started laddering yet on PRO, but I know the strenght of Goth from playing showdown. I just saw Goth in one of Tr3y's youtube videos which he was forced to speed up the video because of the set up. You only saw it once, that's a life time experience bro :Smile: . You shouldn't judge your opinion on a mon based on 1 appearance, specially if it was badly used. Obviously if you run 6 physical hyper offensive team, Goth isn't an issue at all, because it can't set up. But if you decide to run balance and there's a Goth on the other side, you WILL get punished and you won't even see it coming. Clearly you missed the point of this topic. I don't mind being the cry baby but at least throw solid arguments. I threw mine, I expect the same from who doesn't agree with me. That's how a discussion progresses. Heavy hitters, ok, name them.

Correction: Smogon banned Shadow Tag, not Gothitelle. PRO has a tier system. It has the banned pokemons and the unbanned pokemons. You say we shouldn't apply the rules that smogon has, but the evasion clause, and most "recently" swagger and baton pass clauses was smogon that came up with them and the staff of PRO enjoyed them so much that they're currently apart of the rules. And that's why you don't get recked by Klefki's and Baton pass chains into a sweep on the ladder. The clauses were made for more enjoyable gameplay, and I believe that a shadow tag clause would bring a more enjoyable PRO meta. I'm sorry, but your argument just supports my cause. Due to the lack of offensive items (choice items, life orb, is there even shed shell in the game to avoid getting trapped?), defensive/stall/set up trapper mons are stronger than ever.

I'm not talking about tiering, that would be great but it's something that can come long term. I'm talking about on an additional clause, like the swagger, sleep, baton pass, etc. One that forbids the use of the ability shadow tag.

I searched in this section for shadow tag and gothitelle but nothing showed up. More than likely it has been mentioned by someone somewhere but I didn't found a topic about it. I'm here to talk about the possibility of banning Shadow Tag, and I'm kinda surprised this isn't in the rules, since the rules are basicly Smogon clauses. Well Smogon banned Shadow Tag a year ago, and it wasn't even close, it was banned with around 90% of the votes. Despite not having choice scarf and trick, Goth can still set up pretty easily with calm mind and rest, with psychic and a coverage move. The set up by itself is "cancerous", it's time consuming, both players are literally just clicking buttons, there's no competitive aspect associated with it. Fun factor: 0/10. After the set up, comes the 2nd issue: Goth obvious ko's the mon it trapped. Now how are you getting rid of it ? Weavile and Bisharp, which are arguably the best physical dark types in the game, can't ohko max def max hp Goth from full, since there's no life orb. Even if there was a life orb, jolly Weavile has 6,3% of ohko'ing and adamant bisharp 75%. I don't really see a reliable way of revenge killing it. Whirlwind or Roar just delay the problem, and you take a +6 psychic in the face. Defensive Ttar can 2ohko with crunch, but you're still gonna 70 to 80% of damage. Sash physical mons will get ohko if there are rocks/spikes up. You might beat it 1v1 with a leech seed Ferro, but you won't also come out healthy (not even considering that would take an eternity). 3rd issue (kinda obvious): It can just switch out after it did its job, I mean, it got its free kill. It can brought back later for another free set up and free kill. Most of the time this doesn't happen, because Goth gets more than 1 ko, or it's worth trading the Goth for 80% hp of a threat on the other side. Can we brainstorm a bit about this ? :Cool: Oh btw, if you spent 2 weeks farming for that one bold shadow tag Goth, or spent millions on one, or you hunt Goths "for a living" because they sell great, try not to be biased, ty. :Crazy:

If the staff is nice and fair, the 1st breaking of the rules should result in a warning, followed by bans if the player keeps breaking the rules (after knowing of their existance resulting of the warning). Out of curiosity, did you got warned or banned Tr3y ?

This post has some merit. Agree that this is an issue (not an immediate one but oh well), for the reasons that you exposed. The only bit I don't agree is your proposition to solve this. If there is a guild ladder, the system must go fetch the data somewhere to display the ranking, and it surely isn't gonna fetch that data to the forum where we say "x beated y so x is better than y". My suggestion would be this: Instead of adding the points of ALL members of the guild, it would just add the points of the top5 (or whatever number you seem fair) of each guild. I think it's easier to execute from the developers point of view, and quality would be more rewarded and displayed than quantity.

Raikou isn't even overpowered, why is this a discussion ? 0/10 topic imo.

Building a reputation I see. :Crazy:

There's a difference between maximizing profit and making fast money. With your example, the seller can choose between earning 1,5m in 1 hour or 6m in 5 days. The seller must be really desperate or really impatiente to not pick the slow 6m over the fast 1,5m. Your logic would be correct if you would have access to an infinite supply of ms, however we all know that's not reality. :Crazy: ^ Inflation Also this. This is what I mean by saying that the buyers are willing to buy it for a high price, and a higher price as time goes on.

You can't. If the price keeps going up, it's gonna reach to the point where it doesn't sell, so the price drops and stabilizes. I think we all should be happy that MS is tradable because since it envolves RL cash it could have been untradable. It's nice that the staff lets us peasants get access to MS through hard work and grinding ingame. :Smile: