PRO's PvP inconsistencies in regards to move/ability combinations

[Gengarlv100]

Like Qeight clearly explained, this isn’t about powerful stuff or broken stuff, but rather illegal combinations. You are basing your argument on the strength of some sets, but here the discussion is about if some sets should at all be possible.

Having PRO’s own tiers would be the best thing, I agree, but I also think we should stick with the way the people who invented the game and were paid to do so for many generations intended the game to be played, instead of keeping stuff that exists out of a random chance in this particular game.

I want to stress that you repeating this stuff about uncoded and too powerful stuff IS NOT what this poll is about. Please read it again carefully

 

Bro, you're the one misunderstanding my post. This is not about banning 1 thing. I gave an example to clarify PRO has his own metagame, based on what is coded or not. It makes 0 sense to look anywhere for knowing what to ban, which is the whole point of my message. Please read again carefully.

[Intoccabil3]

Bro, you're the one misunderstanding my post. This is not about banning 1 thing. I gave an example to clarify PRO has his own metagame, based on what is coded or not. It makes 0 sense to look anywhere for knowing what to ban, which is the whole point of my message. Please read again carefully.

I completely get what you say, but once again this isn’t a post about the OU metagame but about banning illegal combinations. The two things are separate issues that should be dealt with individually. Even if you voted “Good players get to vote” the Klefki issue wouldn’t be tackled as him having dual screens has nothing to do with illegal combinations created only in PRO. I hope you can understand

[0danobunaga]

So yeah, since we're not trying to imitate the original games to the letter, it makes more sense to allow everything, and only ban what proves to be broken.

The answer what i need

[Haneroze]

I feel like you are only considering things in the short distance. First of all many pokes still have to be implemented from the previous generations, and whole regions too. If everything was allowed togheter with the new stuff sure, it’d be a more diverse game, but the new stuff they implement will be designed with the “gone stuff being gone” idea. Maybe things turn out fine with gen 8, but what about in 2/3 gens from now? How many illegal and broken combinations will this bring in time, and how much work will this bring to the deve who already have their hands more than full?

This doesn’t mean old stuff has to be erased, no one said that, this is only about “invalid” combinations.

Also even if gems were to be substituted by z crystals once they get released, you can still use gems in the rest of the game and not in PvP. It’s not the end of the world

 

I don't think the situation will change much at all in 2-3 generations from now? In general, illegal movesets are caused by only a few things:

-Having a regular ability with a move only learnable in generation 1

-Learning both a newer gen Egg Move and an older gen TM/Move Tutor move.

-Having Hidden Ability and learning a move from before gen 5.

 

In other words, it's mostly changes from the past that causes illegal movesets. In the future, they add a new move as level-up, TM or Move Tutor, it's going to work fine with any of the previously legal movesets, since all you need is to import said moveset and then add the move you want. Unless they decide to make a game unable to import from older generations, or make big changes to the stats of Pokemons, those cases will never be a problem. Only Egg moves create a problem, since the Pokemon needs to be created in the newer game, and thus can't benefit from moves only available in a previous generation. But again, same thing as before, if it ends up being too powerful, we just ban. There shouldn't be too many bad cases.

 

The other possible problem would be with new mechanics. We will get Dynamaxing, which is certain to end up proving itself more useful with certain Pokemons than certain others. Those are definitely more likely to break the meta. Will those new mechanics cause certain illegal movesets to become too powerful? Maybe, maybe not, but a case-by-case ban still sounds more fitting. I'd be more worried about how we try to fit Dynamaxing along with Mega Evolution and Z-crystals, since they apparently won't make a return. And same with gen 9 and 10, we just don't know what new mechanics will change the game, and it's best to make a decision when we reach that point, rather than make decisions now in fear of what might not happen at all.

[Aggs]

So yeah, since we're not trying to imitate the original games to the letter, it makes more sense to allow everything, and only ban what proves to be broken.

 

I couldn't have put this any better. I really enjoy PRO for the fact that it has its own style, because it really tutors to how an MMO should be. This isn't j u s t a main series game converted to be an MMO, it is its own game nearly, and it is amazing for that! It is more based around an economy and its player-base. 1.5 years and I still enjoy coming on to see familiar faces. It is a great pull-factor once you put yourself into the community.

[Xarcom]

I really think that someone needs to learn to read

[Jack72634]

I'm not sure Gamefreak made all the right calls, but if PRO is going to be "Pokémon", we should strive to look like the original games. While having more possibilites may be fun, and while the decisions that led to having things be the way there are in Pokémon may have been misguided, allowing combinations that are impossible in the main series games because "why not" tends to create confusion and surprise, not something we want. Deviations from this baseline, if they are found to be necessary because PRO hasn't coded everything yet, should be rare, clearly labeled, and preferably temporary.

[Hahahaka]

Active players meaning Top25 finishes this year, in the past players could vote if they had a certain rank or were Top25 in any season, it makes no sense to let players vote who were Top25 sometime last year or even the year before that. This ensures that active players who can reach the Top ranks on the ladder.

 

This may not seem like the "best players" however they are the significant better players.

the number of base is way to less if only top25 within a year are allowed

I recommend to add players with 300+ or 350+ current ranking to the base number

[Hahahaka]

I agree with you, I am very much in favor of letting everyone vote. A PvP council is out of reach as of now given that I would only consider running one once the battle recode is done but we don't know when that is done. Our Devs are working on it but stuff takes time, in the meanwhile we have to work with what we have.

you won't find any big ethical problem in just 1 run

humanity is way more darkness and greedy than you think

it doesn't make sense to use ban list from different game (smogon)

with same logic it doesn't make sense to copy a thing (PvP council) from different community (smogon) that they don't have trading BUT WE DOES

I doubt that if I don't tell you now you would never know :

some players have already seeking offer to buy electric, fire and ice gems the day before the announcement made

 

again

"never give a handgun to monkey"

[Xarcom]

Guys, you are misunderstanding the whole situation.

The topic of this thread is the Impossible combination of Abilities/moves, not the comparison with Smogon tier list. The topic of this thread is not about Pokemon that have been put in UBER tier in Gen 7, but the combination of moves and abilities that cannot be obtainable in the Pokemon games normally.

I will make you an Example:

 

In generation one THERE WERE NO ABILITIES.

Machamp could learn the move Fissure in Generation 1, cause Fissure was a TM back in the days.

Fissure TM has been removed in the next generations.

With the PokeBank and Pokemon Red/blue/Yellow in virtual console on Nintendo 3DS, a Machamp from Pokemon Red/blue/Yellow can be transfered to the new games, but it will hold only his Hidden ability(it's a rule of these transfers).

Now, in Gen7 Pokemon Games we can have a Machamp with fissure, but the only ability available for that Machamp is Steadfast.

So, it's IMPOSSIBLE to find a Machamp No Guard + Fissure.

Extend this thing to all pokemons that have the same problem and u get the topic of this thread.

 

 

This is not to discuss tier lists, but to discuss about impossible combinations. Spend more than 2 minutes to read please.