Evilprotagonist

H.o by the very design its suppose to aggresivly trade down poke until the last man standing. STall by the very design suppose to avoid trade and bloodshed until the last player standing. H.o 0 recovery to hazard stall. multiple recovery option deisgned for the long con I find it very hard to swallow the argument that its harder to find a kill against ho compared to crack a nut designed to not crack.

H.o by the very design its suppose to aggresivly trade down poke until the last man standing. STall by the very design suppose to avoid trade and bloodshed until the last player standing. H.o 0 recovery to hazard stall. multiple recovery option deisgned for the long con I find it very hard to swallow the argument that its harder to find a kill against ho compared to crack a nut designed to not crack.

The only piority in current pro that out-piroity/speed gren is espeed. Which pretty much limit it to dnite and lucario unless i missed a mon. What make bb-gren destroy h.o esp is the ability to being able to block the espeed with your team-mates and then send it out with tempo with u-turn/volt switch etc, while getting a guarantied kill or 2 every time gren comes out, because i guarantie you offense team will quickly run out of mons that can tank a dark pulse/hydro pump from 400 speced atk. Thats the principle of how balance works, you have both sword and shield.. So yeah this plays into the strenght of what balanced teams want to do. Now how will stall suffer? the generall rule is that stall either 6-0 or lose 0-6 cause once a piece is broken rest falls easily. But the hardest part is the first crack. And as i mentioned before literly all stall runs chansey which are the one and pretty much only hard counter to bb gren that is a top tier poke (spedef poli kinda wack). Another point is that every stall team needs to have hazard controll. So basicly the 2 strong point people been arguing over bb gren, spikes and power are effectivly countered by the natural strong point of the stall architecture. If stall do fall its because alot of what his team mates can do to keep the pressure there. So while bb gren could for sure do some work when his team mates somehow wear chansey down/keep the spikes up, its not nearly as much as bb gren would do to teams not designed to tank a 399 speed 400 speatk speced atks. And yes bb gren is a good addition to rain. And ya know rain with a mega pert and bb gren is pretty good into stall...and pretty much everyting else aswell. And tbh i have not seen it enough to jump the fence to any side yet. I do firmly believe this poke is fit for balanced team. extremely good against offensive teams, decent against defensive teams and it looks hela cool with that scarf around his neck, up until you relies that its his tongue and then you can not unseen that and your life is ruined.

i mean thats a whole another topic. Im here for the ash-gren arguments. So i rly dont see the relevance of what you trying to bring to this topic <.<

Ya know i see a lot of people flaming stall here for some reason. When ashe-greninja excell at killing offense, esp hyper offense. So basically if i can explain it so people can stop misunderstand. This mon is rly rly good at killing teams with out dedicated checks such as (chansey...and poliwrath?). Its rly easy for ashe-gren to click stuffs and just kills. You guys say that pre-battle bond its weak, well guess where its easy to get kills? h.o team members. ----> Which means offense and esp h.o will suffer. Which are the stuffs that actually try to break stall. So all you stall haters here defending ashe-gren, you guys are actually defending the very stuffs that are activly hunting stall-breakers . Ironic xD. This is literly a "why-do-you-hit-yourself" thing. If anything stall players would be the one who suffers the least, because guess what team comp benefit the most from chansey? stall.....XD. I know , i know. For some of you after reading this your mental will explode with this new revelation. Praise me im here to save pvp once again from all you sinners.

Evilprotagonist Evilprotagonist gold gmt+2 rank 23

Its probably high and low rolls. Each attack have a range it can hit which differs by maybe up to 5% ish? While the pro hp bar is not pixel perfect and certainly doesn't show the excat procentage like in sd its decent enough that you get used to it. Wishing may be because he wished to another pokemon, the wish heals is from the original wish users health number and not the receiver. for example : 252 SpA Charizard-Mega-Y Flamethrower vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Eviolite Chansey in Sun: 163-193 (23.1 - 27.4%) -- 69% chance to 4HKO Here i took a random calc of a attack and you can see its strenght can vary btw 23 and 27ish.

Naw man eune sucks xD

Or you know the "newer players" should feel accomplished every time they face older player and learn something from it, or feel good by beating them and have it as a goal. I know myself when i was a 200 rating player getting pumped every time i manage to snipe deidara And the game is alrdy constantly nerfing "higher rating players", it's the current unlucky matchmaking system xD ( i could go on and writte a essay about it, but i think XD sums it up pretty well). And you know by saying we will only have the same 50 people all the time is basically saying u think all these newer players are stupid, 0 iq to grow/improve and will never beat the previous "goood players". Kinda pessimistic and abit ego dont you think? To say they will never improve and keep being bad for the rest of their gaming lives. I personally didnt become good by playing against 200 rating players all the time. I didnt manage to get to 400 + for the first time by playing other who have no idea what they were doing. And i have personally experimented and tried to help some players improve and seen them jump from 200 rating to 450 ish. And again i rly dont think they would actualy improve and know what they are doing by playing against others who themself have no idea what they are doing. So the opinion that by limiting newer players exposure to beter players will actualy help pvp is bs imo, its just a short cut disguised with a cheap excuse. Oh and a example of what these talent suppresing ideas are, i can draw pararells to the game League of legends if people play it. The eu servers euw and eune. Basicly eune is considered a joke server cause all the good players transfers over to euw. Because why would they not? all the PRO players and high elo players do, there is 0 incensitive to play in eune when no1 else does. I myself felt the need to transfer over to silver and play against their players back in 2019 when people told me gold ladder was a joke in comparison. Nowdays where we have good players taking their time to play on both servers would only bolster the reputation of hitting ladder. That should consider a blessing and a good thing. Otherwise it might end up like the eune server comparison, a joke server where people compare eune challenger to euw diamond etc. And about the money gap. Read above the text about the economy moneywarrior posted which i agree with. If you want to complain about this "money gap". Complain to the pve community. How much does a ladder player make at the end of the month? And how much do a t8 good pvp poke get sold for? How long does it take for a single pve farmer to farm in 30 days to get 1 or even more of those good t8 mons? Yeah i think 1+1+1=3 and we can quickly trace where the big money lies. Check out the dashboard where all them biggest money are, how many of them are pvp names? Pvp players are LITERLY paying rents to pve players to stay relevant every time meta changes/ new pokemon are introduced or just to switch up their team. You rly should not cry wolf about how other pvp players are somehow draining the resource pool off each other when pve players are sitting at the side watching us squabbles among ourself while sipping their glass of wine and taking our paychecks. This line of though does not belong here or should be discussed in a separate topic.

300k

i like the idea, just adding my own suggestion. You can categories all these guild quest under different category. For example pvp quest gives progresses to pvp level, excavation quest gives progresses to excavation level. So in short keep different level under different progresses and have it all under a umbrella level which is the main guild level. This way its easier for new people to see what kind of guild they are looking to join while also for the guild them self to showcase/brag what they stand for etc. And even further we can categories these different level to permanent and not. For example we can have "pvp" level that is permanent and sub "pvp" level that reset every season to show how active the guild is during every month specific and such. And you could probably tie in guild island into these things somehow, cause imo the current guild island to only the top 3 is kinda soul-less. Etc top excavation guild gets a guild island with bunch of excavation/dig sites, pvp island become like the current with bunch of meta mons, boss island bunch of unique bosses with special rewards, hunt island become some kind of island quest where u hunt something specific on the island and such ideas.. Edit: nvm just saw this post was 2 years ago, this probably never happens.

In your hands they might be nice, but in other hands they are "too nice".

You could have just said that none of those "checks" could offensivly switch into either a substitute or a attack that either one shot them or 2hit ko,every single one of them is threthened by scarfed sets. None of the deffensve checks can switch in on either a substitute or a toxic which would cripple their ability to "check" it for the rest of the game. And none of those "checks" can trap it from comming in later again and do repeat the scenario. The only check that is the least punishing to use is malamar, but then 1/6 of your team is a malamar. Oh and those "faster pokemon with wisp", please define them because scarfed sets speed creep above serperior, Edit:+2 252+ Atk Aegislash-Both Gyro Ball (81 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Malamar: 357-421 (94.9 - 111.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO this is a +2 gyro ball,

Just ban kings shield. All of you who thinks its "easy" to counter aegishlash probably looked at smogon for 10sec and found one set and think this is it. The amount of sets it has alrdy make the poke insanely strong and stance change is also strong enough on itself, the argument that banning kings shield make stance change useles is riduculus dumb, please think for 20sec what stance change offers already, its alrdy super strong and kings shield just with it in a vaccum alrdy push it towards op. Now add the fact that with out knowing beforehands what set it runs make it insanely hard to scout with out punishment while the aegishlash user suffers very litle repercusion because of kings shield. Added with the fact that its ghost type make it unable to get trapped by mag, kings shield literly punsh poke that pursuit traps in combination with kings shield again leaves it with no natural predator... And i havnt even started with the amount of 50/50 the kings shield user can force at his wills is insane. Most 50/50 in pvp brings risk and most players try to plans his pieces multi turns in advance to get into position at forcing the opponent in a 50/50 turn in order to do dmg. King shield user here can very casually force these 50/50 senarios both offensivly and deffensivly in his favor every other turn, and because of stance change the drawback of losing those flipps are almost none existent. This is insanely inbalanced in the top level of battle imo. Like kings shield is literly a protect+ intimidate in one move, thats alrdy put it at A rank move, now unlike other power moves it dosnt have a bad secundary drawback nor a very limited pp pool, and add it with stance change which gives it 150 def and spedef??? Add all this again with a poke that can run physical attacker, special attacker, substitue, sword dance, toxic,oh and a actual protect aswell, piority move, and the fact that pretty much nothing can one shot it in deffense form. HoW cAn KInGS SHIeLD be ALloWEd? The only thing that keep it balanced right now is that most users literly just copy the shadow ball, sneak, kings shield, sacred sword build, most "abusers" right now are to dumb to explore outside of the "all chat please help me, what set is best with aegishlash" set. Give it couple of weeks and when stuffs like substitute+kings shield+toxic,choiced sets start to hit the frontpage where u lose a pokemon cause u swapped in into a toxic or a choiced atk completely tear a team apart. Oh and scarfed ones speed creep the likes of serperior and with a ghost/steel typing pretty much make it immune to any piority counter attacks. IT alrdy bullied previous top meta attacker such as conk and lucario out completely while filling their roles in teams. Now thats only 2 pokemon thats lost their jobs, dont forget this guy can do it all, special attacker, toxic breaker, sub breaker. When people discover start scrolling though those sets more poke will lose their jobs while this guy with its big fking kings shield take those spots and do beter. Honestly i challenge you to give me a list of pokemon that can switch into a unscouted aegishlash with impunity. With that i mean it dosnt get 2hit koed, get toxied and put on a timer, get set up on and risk lose the game immedietly. (I might have missed some but im pretty confident in this statement) I can give myself a example for counter argument. A max spedef gliscor can come in and take around 50% on shadowball. (it might dies to hp ice but thats so nische that we dont count it here). Now u face a 50/50 but not rly. U can roost here and risk getting outspeed by scarf and dies(same with any other option not involving switching out, u can click earthquake and risk the 50/50 but not rly where the aegishlash user can kings shield it and now walla ur next earthquake will do shit to shield form and u need to now either switch out or sac gliscor, 3rd option is u still roost and this aegishalsh is not scarfed but it still attacks u and walla now ur back to option 2 again enjoj. Oh btw if its not special aegish and ur gliscor comes in on the dude sword dancing u now face a iron head that put u in range of shadow sneak if not outright kills u with life orb. Oh yeah im to lazy to explore the other lines such as substitute which demands a eq wich can lead to the shadowball senario or a free momentum switch and different lines blablabla. Bottom line the aegishlash user commands all the moves and what 50/50 he is willing to take and what he risks, while the other guy have a very limited moves to choose from while also risk more and never gains tempo. Pss1:had a game on pro and kings shield apprantly dont cancel outrage. So if a dude clicks outrage u can just come in shield it and gives it -1 then set up while the dude is forced to hit u with -1 outrage that does negative damage until it runs out xD. In the name of balance of course. Pss2:To wrap it up. I agree that in a 1v1 vaccum even with kings shield its not godlike op. But in the long run with more teams and sets involved u are simply bound to run into a set that just hard counter ur team. Now this argument is as old as dragonite usage and just as worn out. You cant hard counter everything and blablabla which i agree. But those senarios the pokemon in question dont have fricking stance change and kings shield with a movepool as large as your mums mcdonald menu. So yeah remove the ying-yang-i stomp u by mashing my keyboard with my face combo. Just take kingshield out of the equation. Whats left is still a strong and versatile pokemon but balanced in my not so humble opinion. Pss3: im not toxic i swear, mods please dont spank me if any1 feels offended.

nvm im back in silver again xD

Ya know its 2020 when there is a popular thread where people have a serious discussion about hurting each others feeling on the internet. Although the argument of hiding team build is valid, but being embarrassed of losing with your screen name is kinda hihi xd :)

ye btw i transfered to gold the other day so unless you guys transfer over its kinda yikes xD

hydreigon:2m lucario:650k dragonite:Sold haxorus:SOLD serp:700k azu:Sold

+1, and maybe like a entry fee maybe 5-10k from the person specting to the battler, like some sort of "gladiator sport". It make it less flimsy/casual and give the battlers a incentive to "show" their battles to random people. Its like go to vermilion to watch "football-game" where u choose random battlers that are doing pvp there and pay a small fee to watch the players of your choice who are battling.

Username: Evilprotagonist Server: Gold Country: Sweden (GMT+2)

Baton pass team is the definition of "tempo". It work very well against slower teams because as pointed out many time above that if u play purely deffensive the baton user have the option of bringing in different stallbreakers to break through. Which many pointed out gave unfair tempo advantage for free. But here lays the key. The core of scoli-baton teams is that u need to ALWAYS have the tempo, always making switches until u get that sweep. The way to beat it is easy, u grab the tempo. If you get ahead in tempo and get your stealth rocks up then the baton usesr is literly hitting himself every turn. Every switch he make that dosnt grab the tempo back is literly ticking away his team. The weakness is clear, baton team usually got weak defog. If they run hazard removal it is a turn they completely give up tempo on. Which again comes back to my point. If baton team lose steam they lose control fast. So yes baton may seem oppresive when ahead, but just like any other HO its a double edged sword. Its just as hard to make a comeback if behind. I fought against the "popular" baton scoli team many many times against many players. And not to brag but i got a very good record against them. And when i do lose most of the time i feel like i got rightfully outplayed (well except when togeflinch goes insane, got flinched17x inarow on my heatran once against mallteser that lucky b****astard). But at the end of the day its the most fun matchup in my opinion cause i actualy need to engage my brain into every turn. Win or lose ( i win most of the time!) i actualy feel like that game was worth my time. The argument that speed boost make op pokemons more op is overblown. the counters that counter them still counter them unless they get 2-3 turns to set up before. A spedef or even a bold rotom watch still checks togekiss, av tangrowth, ferrothorn still comes in on manaphy,. Also keep in mind these mon also have to risk taking a attack comming in so again if you big brain it its literly shooting fish dropping into the barrel. The argument of scoli can just come in and no brain click protect or a attack. Well thats on you if you just sit there doing nothing. Why not bring in cofagrigus on the atk and mummy his passive while gaining a turn for free? Put down some sweet toxic spike or pray that u hit will-of-miss on something. Nothing is free and every turn cost something, esp for baton users cause they need tempo like i mentioned before. A failed scouting protect turn can lead to hazard, which lead to hard decisions for baton users. Another thing is that scoli is heavily move restricted. You alrdy know that it has baton, and probably protect. which means that its cover is restricted. Once you know what move he got it can easily be your own set up fodder, everything goes 2 way! And tbh at this point i forgot what else i was thinking. This was just purely brainstorm. Bottom liners is that i think banning baton is stupid and just restrict diversity for no reason. At the end of the day bad players will stay bad, good players will stay good. "abusing baton" wont be a short cut, if it is then man why did i struggle so hard before by not playing baton, silly me! Everyday player complain about rain so op blablabla, stall so op balblabla, the flavor of the mounth is baton is so op blablabla cause its on the frontpage. I swear to serperior half these playing didnt even know what a baton team looks like before they saw this. There is nothing op about baton teams, the only thing op is the delution that you keep losing because ur opponent "abuse" op teams.. GIT GUD...hihi XD PS: erm we are mostly referring to the scoli-pass version right? cause i based everything here on that team cause i think it is the most viable variant of baton passing. If im wrong and there are other factors u guys are discussing here then mb i didnt read 90% of the comments here. Its 3am in the morning what do you want from me! PS2: And what do you mean you have to specific counter building for scoli baton? Rotom-wash lead literly put 4-5 out of a whole team in check. wisp beat scoli/lucario/, electrice check toge+mana,hydro for garchomp,

31 speed and 20+ rest of the stats. Pm me here or in game for price with ur poke.

You can even do "suspect test" here and if its rly rly popular u can consider doing vote like this to move it up to the main mode, but just out of the blue doing this vote with out testing is meh.,..

erm we are not here talking about gen 6 or gen 7. We are talking about talonflame specific so i dont understand what you are trying to acomplish. I myself would rather keep the state we have right now compared to taking back everything gen7 from the current game... but again thats not what we are discussing here no? And ur argument that gen 6 and gen 7 was not complete, well u-turn/volt turn which is pretty pivotal for the game is not complete, so should we go back to the gen before u-turn/ volt turn was introduced?