Jorogumo

[mention]Thor[/mention], will it ever be possible to throw away a legendary Pokémon in order to fight Nikola and be able to catch it again (over and over, until it syncs)?

Maybe make it so that you can get 1 IV reroll every time you hit a specific milestone (e.g. 1 every 500 hours of playtime or so). It could be an extremely rare reward (bug-catching contest or new boss that is incredibly hard to beat). There doesn't need to be a single way of getting it, as long as it retains its uniqueness and never becomes mainstream.

I support this idea. Non-Scarf Latios benefits from speed tying Gengar (who would otherwise always force it out or kill it). Latios can also make good use of HP Fire, if it doesn't mind being a bit slower. Raikou needs HP Ice to maximize its potential. Being able to try "a few" times doesn't cut it. You need to be able to try multiple times. If you put in a lot of time and effort, why shouldn't you be rewarded by getting what you want, when others might get extremely lucky on their first try? If you decide that you want to spend months (and all your PvP coins) trying to get an epic Raikou with HP Ice, then why not? It's already a big enough commitment as is. Recatching legendary Pokémon should also be made possible.

Waiting until the last minute to bid is a perfectly fine strategy, especially considering how much some people were bidding. One of the bidders was adding multiple millions at a time. That's why I wanted to wait. An auction without any given insta price shouldn't end before the time chosen by the seller. A warning could have been given. And who are you? You are not the seller.

There's no problem. There was no insta price and the highest bidder got banned. I wanted to bid, but I didn't know what the offer was after the highest bidder got banned. I just feel like the insta price should have been posted in the original post. No need to be so defensive, [mention]ZausT11[/mention].

You didn't mention any insta price in the original post. Do you have a screenshot of the trade?

If it's true that we can get Heatran, then the viability of Talonflame, Volcarona (lacking HP Ground), Clefable (whose only way of hurting Heatran is through Thunder Wave), and a lot of other Pokémon, will decrease. If Talonflame uses U-turn, Heatran can just set up Stealth Rock. Heatran would be meta-changing at this point, because it can use Toxic on Water-types and Ground-types, can't be Pursuit trapped by a powerful Pokémon like Choice Band Tyranitar, can run Protect against High Jump Kick users (with Drain Punch still being bannable in PvP)... It can also threaten Fighting-types with a burn (30% chance) thanks to Lava Plume. Taunt will shut down a lot of Pokémon. Heatran can also trap Chansey/Blissey and win against either with the combination of Magma Storm, Toxic, Taunt, and Protect. Dugtrio doesn't have the HP that Wobbuffet has and safely bringing it in can be a real hassle. I think Dugtrio is quite unhealthy for the metagame, but this isn't SM Dugtrio, boasting a base attack of 100. This version of Dugtrio can not kill whatever it traps either. It has more versatility than Magnezone (when it comes to trapping), but it will be forced to use Screech to guarantee a kill sometimes (thus relying on Focus Sash to tank one hit before doing its job). This is one of the few things that can be brought in, either after a Pokémon dies or via VoltTurn support/a predicted double switch (unless you don't fear the burn, because Lava Plume will bring Dugtrio down to 1 HP), against Heatran. Dugtrio also works well with Skarmory (luring in Magnezone) and Chansey (taking on all of Heatran's moves before switching to Dugtrio on Toxic/Taunt/Protect). Therefore, regarding Arena Trap, I think we should hold our horses for now. We have yet to see how Heatran will perform in PvP (although, on paper, it looks quite terrifying). It's not "broken", but its versatility and splashabilty, on top of the utility that it brings, will make it a top threat.

100? Anyway, many bosses award Focus Sash. You can try to get some that way. Make sure to check this thread.

Hey, [mention]Enforcer[/mention]! Did you read the posts regarding Poliwrath? I think most people want it to be ranked lower than A-. Here are some suggestions: Chesnaught: Chesnaught does suffer from not being able to abuse Drain Punch. It is a decent spiker, with good physical bulk and, more importantly, an amazing ability that grants it an immunity to Bomb, Ball and Blast moves (such as Gyro Ball, Shadow Ball, Focus Blast and Sludge Bomb). Gengar doesn't get Sludge Wave in PRO, which means that this thing is a complete counter to non-Icy Wind variants. It lacks the moves to hurt it back, though. Overall, it is a check to the likes of Excadrill, Tyranitar (physically offensive variants), and even Bisharp. Its Special Defense is low. The prevalence of Talonflame in the current metagame does hurt it. It also has 6 weaknesses. Smeargle: Decent speed for a Pokémon with otherwise garbage stats. Its best set allows it to function as a suicide lead for HO teams. People should consider using this thing more when running HO. The set should be: Spore, Stealth Rock, Sticky Web, Taunt. Xatu: Mostly found on sun teams. Magic Bounce is an outstanding ability, but it isn't a reliable source of hazard control on its own. It gets Heat Wave, which allows it to check many common entry hazard setters, such as Ferrothorn and Skarmory. U-turn is nice for gaining momentum. In my opinion, the defensive set is the best, because Espeon outclasses it offensively. Both can run Dual Screens. Infernape: Too much to say on this one, so I'll keep it short. The physically offensive set is good, but completely outclassed by Blaziken. The specially offensive set does get STAB priority (Vacuum Wave), but Lucario outclasses it. In sun, it can use Solar Beam, but dedicated Chlorophyll sweepers are better suited for this role. It can run a nice mixed set that benefits from Gunk Shot (perhaps its only perk over Blaziken). It can run a good defensive set with Will-O-Wisp, Slack Off, Taunt, Stealth Rock, coverage moves... Will-O-Wisp is unexpected and cripples Azumarill, Gyarados, Garchomp and other switch-ins. Aerodactyl: I don't think the offensive variant is even worth considering. However, it is a good suicide lead with access to Taunt (coupled with a base speed stat of 130), Stealth Rock, Double-Edge (to KO itself after setting up hazards), and Stone Edge. It also gets Fire Blast, which hits Ferrothorn, Scizor, Forretress, Skarmory, etc. I'd say: Chesnaught to B+/A-, Smeargle and Xatu to B/B-, Aerodactyl to C+... I don't know where Infernape should be ranked. As for Raikou (and Serperior), I don't know if the ranking should assume the best possible options for said Pokémon or not.

Thank you very much! :Grin:

I bought a Pokémon in game and didn't quite manage to get all my money back. Sieger knows about this and agreed to let me change my offer to 8.3m.

9m then.

I offer 7m.

I offer 5m.

3.5m.

:y: Yes, RoarCune is infinitely better! The only two things that Milotic has over it are probably not relevant enough to justify running the set (Sleep triggering Marvel Scale and Dragon Tail losing its decreased priority because of Sleep Talk having a normal move priority). Other than that, Milotic, Gyarados (with a similar set) and the overrated Poliwrath are outclassed by RoarCune. Even with no chance to burn the opposing Pokémon, I can actually see Gyarados being more relevant than Milotic and Poliwrath: good defensive typing, Intimidate, some offensive presence (when compared to the other two), as well as the possibility to run Dragon Tail or Roar.

didnt thought about that lol, thanks for telling me! :y: As nice as getting a boost from marvel scale is, you are a sitting duck for two turns if you go with Rest. Don't do it. There still is the rather mediocre, yet annoying Scald/Dragon Tail/Rest/Sleep Talk set for Milotic. The likes of Calm Mind Clefable must rejoice every time Milotic runs this set.

Re: PRO Viability Rankings (PVP) v0.97_2 <t>If the issue is Breloom being in the same tier as Poliwrath, then why not move the latter down to B+ instead?</t>

Maybe there should be a poll to see if the community is OK with it being exclusive to legendary (and maybe shiny) Pokémon?

Re: PRO Viability Rankings (PVP) v0.97_2 <r>Don't worry about it. I knew there was some kind of misunderstanding.<br/> <br/> However, you are wrong to think that I'm not talking about PRO's metagame. Recently, I've been playing with Snowbull on his way to #1 (well, ngiannas ended up getting it back every single time). We did face you a few times. I remember that you even ran Aerodactyle as a lead. You also used a Krookodile/Talonflame/Gliscor/Tentacruel/Magnezone/Scizor team, if I recall correctly. But you did end up changing your team more than once. As you know, he runs a weird sand team with no Stealth Rock. He also runs Choice Band Dragonite. I do remember Extreme Speed sweeping a lot of teams once most Pokémon are low. I'm surprised you're not mentioning his lead Greninja (with Toxic Spikes), which is surprisingly good even without Protean. <br/> <br/> Ngiannas sold an epic H.A. HP Fire Tangrowth not too long ago for over 1m. I, myself, sold an epic H.A. HP Fire Tangrowth. People have epic H.A. Talonflame. Tangela is way more common and easier to farm. Regardless, Tangrowth, Amoonguss and Venusaur can run poison-type coverage to deal with Breloom.<br/> <br/> In any case, you shouldn't disregard my opinion just because I am mostly a Showdown player. I've been getting a lot of PRO experience thanks to Snowbull. He only faced 1 rain team when I played PvP with him. A lot of players ran sand teams, though (I remember mostly Jelvas). Most Tyranitar sets were specially offensive with Stealth Rock. <br/> <br/> How is Scizor not good enough? JakeMurasaki (ranked #11) runs a VoltTurn core with Magnezone/Scizor, and I can tell you that Scizor is far from not being good anymore. With the right prediction and enough caution, you can reveal Magnezone and not get trapped by it.<br/> <br/> Just one thing, though: even if you put a Pokémon to sleep and manage to freely Swords Dance, a good player will switch out as soon as you spore one of his Pokémon and go to something that can resist Mach Punch (or is immune to it): Volcarona, Talonflame, Togekiss, Gengar, etc.<br/> <br/> <B><s></s>Breloom is not ranked below Poliwrath.<e></e></B> They're in the same tier (A-).<br/> <br/> As for Dragonite, what stops it depends on the set it's running. If it's Dragon Dance, then it lacks an extra coverage move (meaning that Ferrothorn/Tangrowth can wall it if it runs Earthquake over Fire Punch and that a Pokémon like Empoleon --which Ngiannas, who's been #1 many times recently, uses a lot-- can wall it if it runs Fire Punch over Earthquake and threaten it with Scald or Stealth Rock+Roar). Choice Band Dragonite runs Extreme Speed, Outrage, Earthquake, and Fire Punch. While the coverage is basically perfect, it locks the Pokémon onto one move. That's the main drawback of the set.<br/> <br/> <B><s></s>Edit:<e></e></B> I'd like to comment on this calculation:<br/> +2 252 Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Bullet Seed (3 hits) vs. 244 HP / 8+ Def Gliscor: 354-420 (100.5 - 119.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO<br/> <br/> An Impish Gliscor running 8 Def. EVs? That's what "+" before "Def" means (it means it's Impish). Also, Gliscor should always have 240 speed to outspeed both Adamant Breloom and Adamant Bisharp. On top of that, it can run either Swords Dance or Taunt. My point is: Gliscor is not "free" for Breloom. It also is a great Spore absorber with Toxic Orb. Once poisoned, it can switch into Breloom's spore, then switch out, predicting a Bullet Seed. A lot of Pokémon with Natural Cure can switch into Breloom even if it's a bad match-up. It's all about the mind games. Will you risk using Spore a second time or will you try to kill them, expecting them to switch out? Bullet Seed can also be disappointing because it's RNG. You need to predict right and, sometimes, you need to get lucky. Even if Breloom runs a Jolly nature, it will miss out on a lot of OHKOs and 2HKOs. Those are a lot of drawbacks (on top of what I mentioned earlier). However, if your problem is with Poliwrath being overranked, you can make a post and explain why it should go down to B+ (or lower tiers).</r>

Re: PRO Viability Rankings (PVP) v0.97_2 <r><QUOTE author="arlington" post_id="404165" time="1498841863" user_id="619377"><s> </e></QUOTE> Yes, I read it all. Why "..."? It made it seem like you were separating the rain sweepers from the other part of the sentence. You said that Mach Punch kills Omastar, Kabutops, and Floatzel (OHKO is implied), then you said "Mach Punch after 1 boost+Life Orb". If the last part was also referring to the 3 rain sweepers aforementioned, you wouldn't mention Mach Punch twice, with a clear distinction between the first part (Mach Punch OHKOs) and the second (Mach Punch after using Swords Dance). So, before accusing someone of not reading your post correctly, proofread it first.<br/> <br/> Also, Breloom doesn't need to Swords Dance to kill Tyranitar and Excadrill. Not even fully physically defensive Tyranitar is guaranteed to resist a Mach Punch:<br/> 252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tyranitar: 380-452 (94 - 111.8%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO<br/> <br/> Therefore, the second part of what I quoted should forego the mention of any boost, and the first one should read that Breloom needs to Swords Dance once to OHKO Omastar and Floatzel (not needed for Kabutops, unless Breloom's nature is jolly, in which case the OHKO is no longer certain).</r>

Re: PRO Viability Rankings (PVP) v0.97_2 <t>Pokémon can go up and down in the list without necessarily taking another Pokémon's spot. Also, Poliwrath is in A-, which is the same tier as Breloom.<br/> <br/> First of all, Breloom doesn't OHKO Floatzel or even Omastar with Mach Punch (who uses Floatzel anyway?). Here are some calculations:<br/> Breloom vs Omastar: 252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Omastar: 234-276 (83.2 - 98.2%)<br/> Breloom vs Floatzel: 252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Floatzel: 226-266 (72.6 - 85.5%)<br/> <br/> No one is going to allow Breloom to Mach Punch when it's obvious that it'll result in a kill. Breloom's spore can be stopped by Tangrowth (which is on many sand teams), Amoonguss, Venusaur, which can all hurt him back with HP Fire, while Breloom won't be able to deal any significant damage to them. In Tangrowth's case, Regenerator invalidates any kind of damage even more, especially when running a fully physically defensive set. Assuming an Adamant nature, Breloom also only does about 55% damage to Kingdra with Mach Punch. The omnipresent Clefable, even with a Calm nature, survives a Bullet Seed and comfortably OHKOs Breloom back. On top of this, Breloom loses to a lot of top threats, mostly Talonflame, Gengar (free switch in on a predicted Mach Punch and easy OHKO with Sludge Wave), Togekiss, Volcarona (with Flame Body threatening to burn Breloom on a Mach Punch and Lum Berry to cure Spore and put the opponent in a bad situation, not knowing whether Volcarona will Quiver Dance or kill Breloom to avoid another Spore), etc. You also didn't mention Breloom's abysmal speed tier. The priority move argument doesn't hold, when a lot of Pokémon can easily take a Mach Punch or are immune to it, while being faster and able to OHKO Breloom back. Breloom's STAB combination fails to threaten flying-type, poison-type, and bug-type Pokémon. It is unable to break past a lot of Pokémon that are in the same tier: defensive Arcanine with Initimidate, Donphan, Weezing, Roserade, and Venusaur (the latter two can't even be put to sleep). Even Alakazam (which was B+ and is now A) can shrug off Mach Punch and OHKO Breloom back. Breloom can take residual damage from Life Orb, as well as chip damage from Rough Skin and Iron Barbs.<br/> <br/> I'd like to compare Breloom to another Pokémon in A with the same base attack (130) and the same ability (Technician): Scizor. Scizor's typing is, defensively, a lot better than Breloom's. Scizor has more versatility, as it can choose between a Choice Band set and a SD+Roost set, as well as an offensive set, a bulkier set, and a defensive set with Defog. Toxic Heal+Toxic Orb sets are nowhere to be seen (no Substitute) and Focus Sash sets are uncommon (lead Breloom?), so it will almost always run Life Orb, Spore, Swords Dance, Mach Punch, and Bullet Seed. Yes, Breloom can forego a move and run a rock-type coverage, but that requires prediction, which is made harder by the absence of team preview. I see here a lack of versatility in Breloom's case, as opposed to Scizor. Both Pokémon have a poor STAB combination, completely walled by certain types or dual types (which is why they are not ranked higher). While Scizor can be trapped by Magnezone and easily removed from the game, it can just pivot in and out, in order to scout for the enemy team's Pokémon (and a potential Magnezone) with U-turn. With enough investment in HP and Sp. Def., Scizor will always survive HP fire from Choice Scarf Timid Magnezone and use either U-turn or Superpower. Scizor can resist a lot of hits, on top of being able to use Roost and Swords Dance more reliably, while Breloom's only perk over Scizor (Spore) is, in my opinion, not enough to warrant a rise to the same tier as Scizor.</t>

Re: PRO Viability Rankings (PVP) v0.97_2 <r><QUOTE author="TR3Y" post_id="403507" time="1498680408" user_id="4097"><s> </e></QUOTE> I'd like to think my private message didn't go completely wasted then. I guess I no longer need to edit the post I previously reserved for Alakazam. I just got lazy and PM'd you a quicker version of what it would have been. <E>:Sleeping:</E> Thank you for all your work!<br/> <br/> I've heard that some Pokémon finally got moves they didn't have, but are supposed to learn on their own. I wonder if Shell Smash on the likes of Carracosta or Barbaracle is one of them. There are a lot of moves that could put some Pokémon on the list. <e> </e></QUOTE> What private message? :O <e> </e></QUOTE> Did you never get it? I was wondering why you didn't reply! Ugh... Give me a sec, I'll PM you again!</r>

Re: PRO Viability Rankings (PVP) v0.97_2 <r><QUOTE author="TR3Y" post_id="403405" time="1498662324" user_id="4097"><s> </e></QUOTE> I'd like to think my private message didn't go completely wasted then. I guess I no longer need to edit the post I previously reserved for Alakazam. I just got lazy and PM'd you a quicker version of what it would have been. <E>:Sleeping:</E> Thank you for all your work!<br/> <br/> I've heard that some Pokémon finally got moves they didn't have, but are supposed to learn on their own. I wonder if Shell Smash on the likes of Carracosta or Barbaracle is one of them. There are a lot of moves that could put some Pokémon on the list.</r>

I'd like to insta this one.