Conkeldurr Ban When??

[Baganha]

I've been having pretty conflicting opinions in regards to conk in this meta. When i first got in this meta i thought it was for sure broken, a pokemon that 2hkos everything besides sableye is nothing to take lightly so i understand its influence on the meta, being one of the top mons in usage (maybe number1?) and also being a great switch to ferro (as long as it doesnt predict and leech) a status absorber and a check to dark types like weavile and bish thanks to its priority also complement him pretty well. Its natural bulk even allows him to 1v1 mons like dd dnite(non outrage variants), clef, rotom, non colbur slowbro etc. As far as other sets go, i dont believe much could be used over guts, sheer force is interesting, boosting elemental punches but guts 2hkoing the meta makes it kind of obsolete to begin with, a bulkier conk with av is interesting, being able to take its natural bulk and make it better whilst also having offensive pressure but again passing on the immediate firepower with guts isnt worth it.

 

My opinion as of today changed about conkeldurr, while i obviously cant deny it has amazing wallbreaking power, its 45 speed maskes him very vulnerable against faster threats, and by faster i mean relatively anything with base 60+ that isnt weak to mach punch; azu, zam, gengar, latis, mew, staraptor, togekiss, ss kingdra, cloro venusaur check him relatively easy. Another downside that i believe is a bit overlooked is the recoil it takes, making conk even more easier to revenge kill it, i know it has drain punch with its semireliable recovery but its definitely not enough when every target that switches into it being rocky helmet tang/slowbro or even chomp in conjuction with burn damage conk takes massive recoil, giving it very limited amount of switching/playtime, not even including things like hazards and/or sand.

 

Idt i would vote a ban on conk but i would like to see how the meta would change without its presence giving how massive its usage is, when megas come along i would definitely drop him again if it got eventually banned.

[Luohan]

there is one check for both Guts and Huge Power users:

 

1st turn

252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 204-242 (63.7 - 75.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

2nd turn

252+ Atk burned Conkeldurr Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 46-55 (14.3 - 17.1%) -- possible 6HKO

 

0 SpA Cofagrigus Hex (130 BP) vs. 120 HP / 0 SpD Conkeldurr: 190-225 (49.8 - 59%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after burn damage

or

Pain Split revovery: Cofa after two knock off taken have at least 7,3% HP (24 HP), Conk after burn is almost full so around 380 HP, after Pain split we have 63% HP Cofagrigus and ruined by Mummy with possible 6hko Conk which has to switch or get killed by Hex

 

also u can bring our old friend careful talonflame :D

252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Talonflame: 187-221 (51.9 - 61.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Bulk up or kill revenge kill it.

 

Im aware how Conks brokes meta, each team need to be prepared for it. Banning it for a single season would be nice imo.

And as it was said, brn dmg has been nerfed to gen 7, but we still dont get certain checks for guts attackers like zapdos.

[Eltyyy]

The main thing about pokemon like Conkeldurr in pro right now, you can say just use offensive checks for it or just use HO and rain and u can deal with conk easily, i dont disagree with that but you should see a problem that if you use a solid balance you absolutly cannot make it without having to use atleast 2 "soft checks" coz there arent really any hard checks to it in this game right now, so lets say you fall back to the most popular pokemon like tankchomp clefable and rotom wash, if it comes in on you it can just desimate you by clicking the right move which is pretty much a 50 50 in this case, and losing a pokemon to a 50 50 every time conkeldurr comes out is just insane, pretty much no other pokemon can do this in pro while having reliable recovery and is super easy to fit on pretty much any team at the moment, it 100% dictates the meta and what you have to use in order to deal with it, people complain about landorus therian but you can see my point here i hope, landorus therian is super good pokemon and it keeps gen7 OU meta in balance, but in no way does it affect teambuilding other then maybe having to run hp ice instead of hp fire for example on your av tangrowth ( just an example ofcourse not saying hp fire tang is good at all :) )

 

and yeah, giving it a test run banning him for a bit and see how it changes the meta would be great in my opinion :)

[Envymeister]

there is one check for both Guts and Huge Power users:

 

1st turn

252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 204-242 (63.7 - 75.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

2nd turn

252+ Atk burned Conkeldurr Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 46-55 (14.3 - 17.1%) -- possible 6HKO

 

0 SpA Cofagrigus Hex (130 BP) vs. 120 HP / 0 SpD Conkeldurr: 190-225 (49.8 - 59%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after burn damage

or

Pain Split revovery: Cofa after two knock off taken have at least 7,3% HP (24 HP), Conk after burn is almost full so around 380 HP, after Pain split we have 63% HP Cofagrigus and ruined by Mummy with possible 6hko Conk which has to switch or get killed by Hex

 

also u can bring our old friend careful talonflame :D

252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Talonflame: 187-221 (51.9 - 61.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Bulk up or kill revenge kill it.

 

Im aware how Conks brokes meta, each team need to be prepared for it. Banning it for a single season would be nice imo.

And as it was said, brn dmg has been nerfed to gen 7, but we still dont get certain checks for guts attackers like zapdos.

Best for sure, let me play cofagrigus to block conk. Then if i get a foe with no conk i will play 5vs6 bc cofa is useless. best solution ever, how can i listen to ppl with such mentality? Just make PVP council a thing so we dont need these ppl to comment jesus

[Idkup]

Best for sure, let me play cofagrigus to block conk. Then if i get a foe with no conk i will play 5vs6 bc cofa is useless. best solution ever, how can i listen to ppl with such mentality? Just make PVP council a thing so we dont need these ppl to comment jesus

 

Cofagrigus, while niche, isn't completely useless. The strongest consistent answer to Conkeldurr in the game is defensive Nasty Plot Togekiss, which actually does a lot in the current metagame and can always come in, even on Ice Punch.

 

However, players like you sitting on a hypothetical PvP Council is precisely why I, many other players, and presumably staff, are wary of the idea. We do not need a mob mentality of 'ban everything I don't like' running the metagame. With that in mind, please stop using a reasonable concept as a dog-whistle for "do everything I want because I can't be bothered to think for myself," which only makes the entire user-base look like fools who cannot be trusted to handle PvP. Conkeldurr is not broken. Play archetypes other than slow balance and semi-stall. Your argument comes off like a Rain player asking for Gastrodon and Mantine to be banned, which is childish to say the least.

 

tl;dr balance breaker gonna break balance, play something else if you don't like

[Envymeister]

Cofagrigus, while niche, isn't completely useless. The strongest consistent answer to Conkeldurr in the game is defensive Nasty Plot Togekiss, which actually does a lot in the current metagame and can always come in, even on Ice Punch.

 

However, players like you sitting on a hypothetical PvP Council is precisely why I, many other players, and presumably staff, are wary of the idea. We do not need a mob mentality of 'ban everything I don't like' running the metagame. With that in mind, please stop using a reasonable concept as a dog-whistle for "do everything I want because I can't be bothered to think for myself," which only makes the entire user-base look like fools who cannot be trusted to handle PvP. Conkeldurr is not broken. Play archetypes other than slow balance and semi-stall. Your argument comes off like a Rain player asking for Gastrodon and Mantine to be banned, which is childish to say the least.

 

tl;dr balance breaker gonna break balance, play something else if you don't like

i wish u were in silver, and i would get u in pvp, and smash u with conk, i use conk thats why i think it deserves a ban, due how strong he is. when u dont have the tools (bc not in game) to stop him. only solution is revert to gen6 mechanics, where burn wasnt nerfed, talon wanst nerfedm makes no sense play gen7 mechanics without gen7 pokes, megas, z-moves and all legends. think a little before talking, and look at elty posts also. use the few remmaing brain cells u still have.

[Idkup]

i wish u were in silver, and i would get u in pvp, and smash u with conk, i use conk thats why i think it deserves a ban, due how strong he is. when u dont have the tools (bc not in game) to stop him. only solution is revert to gen6 mechanics, where burn wasnt nerfed, talon wanst nerfedm makes no sense play gen7 mechanics without gen7 pokes, megas, z-moves and all legends. think a little before talking, and look at elty posts also. use the few remmaing brain cells u still have.

 

I won't bother entertaining that first sentence, as my record speaks for itself.

 

Counters:

- Defensive Togekiss

- Cofagrigus

 

Counters (coverage excepting):

- Defensive Gliscor (Ice)

- Gligar (Ice)

- Defensive Garchomp (Ice)

- Jellicent (Knock)

- Slowbro (Knock)

 

Checks:

- Azumarill

- Clefable

- Mew

- Heracross

- Alakazam

- Latios

- Latias

- Salamence

- Celebi

- Jirachi

- Gengar

- Rotom-W (Specs)

- Togekiss (Other)

- Skarmory

- Amoonguss

- Tangrowth (Defensive)

- Dragonite

- Pelipper

- literally anything that can tank Mach Punch and retaliate

 

There is a distinct line between 'good' and 'broken'. A Pokemon as prone to getting punished for being slow as Conkeldurr is not broken.

[Qeight]

,

I will allow this discussion as long it is mutually respectful but if you can't do this I will lock this thread the next time.

[Idkup]

Given a free switch, these Pokemon can defeat or severely cripple a standard Conkeldurr 1v1. Simple.

 

e: The post I was responding to was deleted by a moderator.

[Eltyyy]

anyways this post would be better off closed, it wont get anyone anywhere and its just empty talk on both sides wether u vote ban or no ban :)