Legendary Birds Quest

[Namelesshero27]

will be the quest perma?

Yes, they confirmed it's permanent content.

[Zsq123]

is there any guide?

[Cheatc0de]

why it shouldnt be hard? when its perma

[Nostazz]

why it shouldnt be hard? when its perma

I don't think it should be easy, not at all. It should be in line with the other quests, as in similar requirements and results. However the way things are presented should be as polished as possible, as entartaining as possible and available to the most suited target. But there are differences in between hard and frustrating, or hard and boring. Furthermore as i said this is my point of view and the thread goal is not to humiliate who made the quest, or the players who like it, but just to give my rather useless 2% and allow other players who have similar or different opinion to come and express it freely to enhance progress in the game.

The base of progress is discussion and with no discussion there is no feedback.

[Qeight]

As a beginning point, Sinnoh requirement for Kanto legendary birds feels off. I see the point, but it limits the amount of players that are gonna be able to get them, despite being a "surprise event".

Legendary Pokemon are supposed to be end-game activities, end-game goals. How can you limit people who are actually in the end-game to get these legendary Pokemon? The Sinnoh Champion requirement. There are already regional legendary Pokemon that do not require Sinnoh champion however this is the only way to artificially distinguished between who already is in the "end-game" and who isn't.

The map itself is really nice, the mapper team made a good job on it, but the spawns are flat boring,common, and low tier (and as for what i've seen just water spawns);

Spawns are not supposed to be super rare tier, high tier. They will be changed after the summer event, just like the ones on Breezy Fall. The main focus is the quest not spawns, the summer event is for spawns.

The fact you need to get to Fire island with a "Cloud nine" mon, but nothing tells you it's not needed after the first run.

The fact once you get there, you have to come back again to fetch a fire team, without specification if just a fire team or some fire mons.

The fact all the battles are Superbosses and so you can't also use items, you can't rely on stats since all the mons are lvl 100 with more than full evs, so ye guess speed tiers.

The fact all the dialogues are pretty much flat and there is no "easter egg", no hint, no joke or clue.

Once you achieve Fire orb, you need to, once more, find out on your own what to do and where to go, fair enough.

You are sent out of nowhere in a map to fight another Superboss, this time much harder than the first one aswell.

And after that the two legendary birds, without chance of recovery.

The only nice thing, luckily, is that there are no cooldowns.

After that directing yourself to Ice island, once more on your own intuition, to get to think that you need "Shadow tag" to be able to catch the Articuno (since the tip this time is quite vague).

All this to gather the 3 orbs , receive a 2 line dialogue from the NPC and then discover you cannot even catch the legends because you don't have evos, the gems , both, or have to catch also a mon to present to the npc.

For all the reasons above I believe this is content wise the worst event, or the least polished one, that we had in PRO in a long time if not ever.

What bothers me the most is that with a little more effort the event could have been much better. There was no real dead end aswell since it's a "Surprise event" so I don't see why spawns couldn't be revised in a couple more days, and some dialogues changed a bit and made more realistic or alive.

Surely some player can agree to an extent on what I'm saying; we have been waiting birds for a long time and this is not the way I was expecting to receive them. Also there is no info about them being available after the event, so if someone could also clarify that (they did on Discord apparently) on the light of those who lost shaymin without knowing it wouldn't be present anymore after the event differently from, for example, Manaphy.

Once more this isn't a kid's rant.

All I wanted to suggest was to regard the points above and possibly:

Make clearer tips, or vague aswell, just some tips;

Better dialogue lines, since the ones here are really fast written (or they appear that to me);

Decent or newer spawns, so that people are gonna be willing to put time in the map;

Less back and forth action, because walking over and over in the same 3 maps is not fun for anyone;

Final requirements indications, or stop by requirements right at the beginning, because otherwise those are wasted precious minutes to those who don't nearly have the requirements.

I hope this will help you understanding if something is really wrong or if I'm just stupid (tough one indeed)

Best regards to the community,

Nos

The quest is designed for you to figure things out, not get handed everything in the first 5 minutes. Vagueness and actually understanding, figuring out requirements are part of quests in case you ever played literally any other game with quests.

 

This is not an event, it is supposed to stay. This is the first quest that allows you to get all 3 of a trio, this quest and quest requirements get progressively "harder" to achieve, giving users' a goal. It is an end-game activity after all.

 

This is again NOT an event, this is a quest-line for the legendary bird trio and it is here to stay.

Not everything is perfect, a small oversight like the surfing with a full fir team is being addressed.

Spawns are not supposed to be the main attraction for this quest, they will be a reason to return later on after the summer event but for now the main focus is the quest.

 

The main problem with all of this is their decision to not release requirement.

What is the point of releasing a quest-line and then giving you all the details on how to proceed. This is not how quests are done, in any game that I played at least.

There are design choices and choices that will be changed later on when other certain stuff is done but that is not something we can disclose or talk about yet.

 

That was the very bad thing. We had to go just blind. And hope in kind people to guide. While they were laughing, like that announce in pro discors show.

Part of the fun is figuring stuff out and not getting everything served on a silver tablet. There is a large portion of players who can actually appreciate not getting everything served on a silver tablet.

 

Yes, this is really suck bad Event and Quest..

I miss Vulcan Island with High lvl NPC and awesome Spawn Rare Poke.

Nobody said this will replace Vulcan or the Summer event, not sure where you got that information from. Yes Vulcan will return, yes there will be rare attractive spawns.

Complaining about something you have no knowledge about is just, you know very demotivating for us.

 

It's always the same. The quests, despite python being now supported, still aren't in any way more interesting or developed ; if anything, the amount of work put into them is significantly lesser, leading to even worse stuff than what used to be done in the earlier days of the game with bigger restrictions.

There are still certain limitations on what can be done in a Free2Play MMO with volunteers who work with a scripting language that obviously has its limitations. This quest is not better developed than "show me 344 evos, pick Latios or Latias"? I beg you pardon but of course there are limitations on how much you can actually do in python.

 

It's always the same requirements: regional champion (once again, why Sinnoh, for Kanto's legendaries?)

Explained above.

 

equired set evolution data (that will eventually get reduced down like all others end up being because every single time, people complain about it, yet every single time, it's thrown in unthinkingly as a requirement),

Very reasonable for the first 2, it gets progressively harder to achieve for a good reason. It is the first quest where you can actually get all 3 and it's an end-game quest.

show a freshly caught pokémon (every quest except Sinnoh's reporter), and give items. Mew's quest, that was done in 2014 or 2015, had those exact same types of requirements already, so this is a bland copy paste with tweaked values in the code.

Time-gate, quest-gate, whatever you wanna call it. You are not supposed to rush through quests in an instant, freshly caught Pokemon with a certain IV requirement block you from doing so. Actually spending effort on something.

 

Back in our days, we would make official announcements for events, like the 2017 Halloween's announcement, with clear mention of the legendary being only available during that time, as well as the requirements to do it, without giving away the full guide of every step of the quest.

Of course, it's much less work to just say "surprise released" on Discord and get on with it, with no informations whatsoever, at all.

Times change, we actually have the freedom to do what we want and when we want to do it. As Walross said, next time we release a guide with it because that is the best thing to do, so everyone can get everything in 5 minutes. This is obviously not going to happen and you know better than this that this would be just unreasonable.

 

will be the quest perma?

Yes.

 

I don't think it should be easy, not at all. It should be in line with the other quests, as in similar requirements and results. However the way things are presented should be as polished as possible, as entartaining as possible and available to the most suited target. But there are differences in between hard and frustrating, or hard and boring. Furthermore as i said this is my point of view and the thread goal is not to humiliate who made the quest, or the players who like it, but just to give my rather useless 2% and allow other players who have similar or different opinion to come and express it freely to enhance progress in the game.

The base of progress is discussion and with no discussion there is no feedback.

You can't compare this quest to any other quest, as this quest allows you to catch all 3 of a trio and others simply don't.

[Mamathieu]

Why make a legendary quest with 15 dig item as requirments ? (90 for the 3) seem a bit nonsense x)

[Guest deleteduser41af]

In most story based games, u get hints/clues based on the quest and from what i understand, u have to figure everything out in this quest by yourself and as the topic holder wrote, this is mostly just feedback - so take it, instead of turning it into a negative thing like u usually do, turn it into a positive thing, that community actually cares.

 

I havent done the quest myself, but i heard from some that the quest was abit meh meh.

[Nostazz]

In most story based games, u get hints/clues based on the quest and from what i understand, u have to figure everything out in this quest by yourself and as the topic holder wrote, this is mostly just feedback - so take it, instead of turning it into a negative thing like u usually do, turn it into a positive thing, that community actually cares.

 

I havent done the quest myself, but i heard from some that the quest was abit meh meh.

Do it, come back, and let me know your thoughts!

[Guest deleteduser41af]

Do it, come back, and let me know your thoughts!

Well i would do it, if i had the gems, but I dont want to waste pokedollars on gems since they are sadly for now expensive.

[Magicguard]

Hi,

I wanna start by saying this is nowhere near a kid's rant or an annoying bored player's hobby.

I don't wanna see anyone taking the chance to insult staff or players here. This thread is made to give feedback to the team and give the space to players ideas regarding the Kanto Birds event Quest.

As a beginning point, Sinnoh requirement for Kanto legendary birds feels off. I see the point, but it limits the amount of players that are gonna be able to get them, despite being a "surprise event". This is an endgame quest. The current endgame is Sinnoh. Sure, it would have been more appropriate to release these Birds with a Kanto requirement years ago, but the opportunity for that is long gone.

The map itself is really nice, the mapper team made a good job on it, but the spawns are flat boring,common, and low tier (and as for what i've seen just water spawns); Why are you looking for hunting grounds where there are none? Not every map is going to have something worth hunting.

The quest itself is quite bad, to me at least. There is only one real hint ,a TrollDaddy line and its mon. The rest of the quest has basically to be achieved on your own, by errata corrige.

The fact you need to get to Fire island with a "Cloud nine" mon, but nothing tells you it's not needed after the first run. There are plenty of hints in the dialogue. They're somewhat vague, but if you're relying solely on errata corrige, you're not reading.

The fact once you get there, you have to come back again to fetch a fire team, without specification if just a fire team or some fire mons.

The fact all the battles are Superbosses and so you can't also use items, you can't rely on stats since all the mons are lvl 100 with more than full evs, so ye guess speed tiers. Fire Elder has 508 EVs on each Pokemon. What, exactly, are you guessing?

The fact all the dialogues are pretty much flat and there is no "easter egg", no hint, no joke or clue.

Once you achieve Fire orb, you need to, once more, find out on your own what to do and where to go, fair enough. I'd think the Birds suddenly appearing in Seaway Vein is hint enough. Show, don't tell.

You are sent out of nowhere in a map to fight another Superboss, this time much harder than the first one aswell.

And after that the two legendary birds, without chance of recovery.

The only nice thing, luckily, is that there are no cooldowns. Luckily? This is a deliberate design choice to make up for the fact that these bosses are intentionally difficult.

After that directing yourself to Ice island, once more on your own intuition, to get to think that you need "Shadow tag" to be able to catch the Articuno (since the tip this time is quite vague). Having the player use their own intuition is now a bad design choice?

All this to gather the 3 orbs , receive a 2 line dialogue from the NPC and then discover you cannot even catch the legends because you don't have evos, the gems , both, or have to catch also a mon to present to the npc.

For all the reasons above I believe this is content wise the worst event, or the least polished one, that we had in PRO in a long time if not ever.

What bothers me the most is that with a little more effort the event could have been much better. There was no real dead end aswell since it's a "Surprise event" so I don't see why spawns couldn't be revised in a couple more days, and some dialogues changed a bit and made more realistic or alive.

Surely some player can agree to an extent on what I'm saying; we have been waiting birds for a long time and this is not the way I was expecting to receive them. What were you expecting, then? Also there is no info about them being available after the event, so if someone could also clarify that (they did on Discord apparently) on the light of those who lost shaymin without knowing it wouldn't be present anymore after the event differently from, for example, Manaphy.

Once more this isn't a kid's rant.

All I wanted to suggest was to regard the points above and possibly:

Make clearer tips, or vague aswell, just some tips; As before, these exist.

Better dialogue lines, since the ones here are really fast written (or they appear that to me); There's always room for better dialogue, of course.

Decent or newer spawns, so that people are gonna be willing to put time in the map; The maps are not intended for hunting.

Less back and forth action, because walking over and over in the same 3 maps is not fun for anyone; You are teleported through half of the quest to avoid this exact circumstance. There are no Surf spawns. Really?

Final requirements indications, or stop by requirements right at the beginning, because otherwise those are wasted precious minutes to those who don't nearly have the requirements.

I hope this will help you understanding if something is really wrong or if I'm just stupid (tough one indeed) Patch notes are deliberately withheld on Day 1 so that those who wish to explore and build guides for the rest of the community can do so.

Best regards to the community,

Nos

 

The main problem with all of this is their decision to not release requirement.

 

That was the very bad thing. We had to go just blind. And hope in kind people to guide. While they were laughing, like that announce in pro discors show. This is, as stated previously, to give community members a chance to aid each other, rather than relying solely on definitive edicts from staff.

 

Also, I would like to say that Guardian's bosses (for dog) are not super boss battle. The Guardians also have a time gate of twenty-one days. These are not comparable.

 

It's always the same. The quests, despite python being now supported, still aren't in any way more interesting or developed ; if anything, the amount of work put into them is significantly lesser, leading to even worse stuff than what used to be done in the earlier days of the game with bigger restrictions. Python, unfortunately, is not magic. It's a far more powerful scripting language than Xanascript, but what exactly is worse?

 

It's always the same requirements: regional champion (once again, why Sinnoh, for Kanto's legendaries?) Why not require the player to finish the main story before pursuing an endgame quest?, required set evolution data (that will eventually get reduced down like all others end up being because every single time, people complain about it, yet every single time, it's thrown in unthinkingly as a requirement), show a freshly caught pokémon (every quest except Sinnoh's reporter) Manaphy? Shaymin? Breezy Falls?, and give items. Mew's quest, that was done in 2014 or 2015, had those exact same types of requirements already, so this is a bland copy paste with tweaked values in the code. Mew Quest: Obtain Dex, Evolution data, and talk to a Lapras. This is a copy-paste?

 

Then, once the quest actually starts, it's mostly going around the map for the sake of twisted satisfaction seeing people losing their patience. I'd really like to hear your opinions in good faith, but this is really quite a leap in logic. For instance, for Manaphy, it was:

• Go to Lilycove,
  
• Go to Eumi Island,
  
• Go to New Mauville,
  
• Go to Lilycove,
  
• Go to New Mauville,
  
• Go to Eumi Island. Weren't you just complaining about contrived requirements in place of an actual story?
  

Along that, every single NPC in the Captain's ship had the very same bland, soulless, uninspired, one-line dialogue ; then, half of the NPCs who had more than that one line had typos in them (see my report here). People make grammatical and syntactical mistakes. Some of them somehow went unfixed for years. Would you prefer I also not acknowledge grammar mistakes and simply leave them for the next generation of Scripters?

 

---

-[/hr]

 

Back in our days, we would make official announcements for events, like the 2017 Halloween's announcement, with clear mention of the legendary being only available during that time, as well as the requirements to do it, without giving away the full guide of every step of the quest. Where did you get the notion that the quest was anything but permanent?

Of course, it's much less work to just say "surprise released" on Discord and get on with it, with no informations whatsoever, at all. Of course, it's also much more interesting for players to find out what's going on themselves. It also shouldn't be very surprising, at least for those users that regularly participate in PRO Discord, seeing as I've been hinting about this for a week.

 

 

---

-[/hr]

Speaking of lazy: the bosses. As they get reworked, bosses go from Lvl 120 with 100 EVs in each stats, to:

• they have 400 EVs in each stat, which ends up giving even more stats than pokémon lvl 120; Hard mode pays out 20k-40k. What did a boss like Shamac pay out before? Higher prizes, higher difficulty.
  
• they hold items
  
  • but the "choice *" held items, while effectively increasing their stats, do not block them into one offensive move;
    

  [*]you cannot use any items during the battle; See above

  [*]they still have several legendaries per team, though i can't seem to find if any have Megas;

  [*]some of the Bosses' pokémon have more than 4 moves; Pokemon cannot have more than four moves in battle. Some bosses randomly choose their moves before engaging the player.

  [*]they apparently had a random lineup to make more efficient teams based on their poké's order inefficient, but apparently that change got reversed at least. This was a stopgap while I worked on a method to kill Seaking Lightningrod abuse.

With that, they still have a 60% chance to reward you useless berries, 25% chance to reward you some PP Ups, and 15% chance to reward you a fully randomly generated non-shiny pokémon. This is blatantly untrue.

And that is when they reward you something aside from the mere privilege to keep going through quests, like in this particular event's case. Quests in which they're lazily thrown in to give those a wrong difficulty level. And what, exactly, is the correct difficulty level, and why is it your place to decide?

 

---

-[/hr]

 

In short, the suggestion is quite simple in its form, but evidently complicated in its implications: start thinking.

You're supposed to do the job out of passion ; be passionate.

A game is supposed to entertain ; be entertaining.

If you can't be bothered; don't. But don't throw unpolished stuff to be done with it and cut all questions/suggestions about the matter, because that's how you get this.

 

 

 

I would be totally ok with requiring a fresh catch poke, but having it to be good, very good and epic (in this order), and having it being tier7+... meh. A good tier 7-8 that does not requier Nature nor Ability is not very difficult to find; second and third birds are meant to be a relative challenge to obtain.

 

I don't think it should be easy, not at all. It should be in line with the other quests, as in similar requirements and results. However the way things are presented should be as polished as possible, as entartaining as possible and available to the most suited target. But there are differences in between hard and frustrating, or hard and boring. Furthermore as i said this is my point of view and the thread goal is not to humiliate who made the quest, or the players who like it, but just to give my rather useless 2% and allow other players who have similar or different opinion to come and express it freely to enhance progress in the game.

The base of progress is discussion and with no discussion there is no feedback. The requirements for the first Legendary Bird are substantially easier than every permanent legendary quest except Mew and Manaphy (e.g. 344 evos, 500 hours + 21 day wait, 28 prior to rework). You can obtain all three. Previously, you could only obtain one. That is another drop in difficulty, as something that is very hard is easier than something that is impossible.

 

My comments in bold. I appreciate the feedback.