finished The Ultimate Boss Guide for Newbies! REWORKED AFTER UPDATES!

[Momot]

Hey,

again, I want you to bestow your wisdom (or at least your opinion) on me:

 

I've started to gather Pokemon for the Team and now I have to choose which one is the best.

My Problem is, that I've got Pokes with great def-Stats but trash SpeDeff (or reverse) and Pokes with decent balanced stats, but less than the other poke (Think 30 Deff, 12 Spedeff vs 21 deff and 21 Spedeff).

 

So I'd like to ask you if the Specialist is bettter, since you know which type of attack to expect, if the generalist is better because you can't count on a pure moveset or if it depends on the role of the Poke (a SpeAtt debuffer doesn't need Def but the SetUp sweeper needs both)

 

Can you help me out?

[Bhimoso]

Hey,

again, I want you to bestow your wisdom (or at least your opinion) on me:

 

I've started to gather Pokemon for the Team and now I have to choose which one is the best.

My Problem is, that I've got Pokes with great def-Stats but trash SpeDeff (or reverse) and Pokes with decent balanced stats, but less than the other poke (Think 30 Deff, 12 Spedeff vs 21 deff and 21 Spedeff).

 

So I'd like to ask you if the Specialist is bettter, since you know which type of attack to expect, if the generalist is better because you can't count on a pure moveset or if it depends on the role of the Poke (a SpeAtt debuffer doesn't need Def but the SetUp sweeper needs both)

 

Can you help me out?

 

I'll take time to answer this but let's get into it:

 

I mainly study the team from each boss. Consider it like this: in almost all bosses, you only have to take the FIRST pokemon into account. This is because you will be exploiting the first pokemon in their lineup to setup on them.

 

One of the exceptions is Brock, as his Aerodactyl has Taunt and you have to take it out (or use a Oblivious Slowbro, which ignores taunts) so you can set up against the next pokemon.

The rest of the team is irrelevant as you will take them out in a single turn with your sweeper who you can equip with a Focus Sash.

 

However, if you want to use a Setup Sweeper, analyse if you will use it vs multiple bosses or just one. If you will use it against multiple bosses, analyse how many of them use special moves and how many use physical moves. Take only the pokemon you'll be setting up against into account.

If you will only use that setup sweeper for that specific boss, you will only analyse what that pokemon exactly needs.

 

Lance Boss can be cheesed using an Own Tempo Slowbro to avoid being confused by Dragonite's Hurricane (first pokemon) and with equilibrated bulk (20+ in defenses and hp, not something like 30 def and 5 spdef) because his pokemon use both physical and specially oriented moves. It can also be cheesed in 7 turns with a Cloyster with Skill Link, 20+ atk and speed (ignore bulk on this one), adamant, shell smash once and icicle spear six times while holding a focus sash.

 

You can use any pokemon as a sweeper in a Baton Pass Team as long as its offensive stats are massive. You can ignore its bulk if you simply stick a Sash onto it. Rarely ever will any Boss Pokemon use a priority move against you (only exception I can think of is Link's Aegislash)

 

You can also consider which pokemon in your team actually need defenses and bulk to work or if it is irrelevant. Bulk in Gengar is irrelevant, he just needs 20+ spatk and speed to level it up fast, secure failed kills if anything wrong happens (Sturdy causes some accidents in bosses) and destiny bonds require you to always faint in one turn.

 

For Counter and Mirror Coat strategies, you also want low bulk and high HP to be able to counter with as much damage as possible (these moves depend on your HP stat but not on your defense or special defense)

 

When you check each one in prowiki, you should also check how many of them are purely physical attackers with physically attacking movesets, how many are special attackers with specially attacking movesets and how many are mixed.

 

You will only check the first pokemon of each boss fight. For example, if 13 out of the 20 bosses start with a Magnezone, 5 start with a Conkeldurr and 2 start with a mixed Infernape, your priority is to have a setup debuffer, memento and baton passer specifically trained mainly in physical defense. Or, as mentioned above: prepare your pokemon according to the boss pokemon you will use to setup.

 

TLDR: It depends on each boss. Check if you will use your boss pokemon for multiple bosses or just one. If it's multiple, they should have equilibrated and balanced defenses, but if they're all physical or they're all special or it's just one boss, check their teams via PROWiki. You might be able to avoid training too many pokemon unnecessarily for bosses :)

[Momot]

I'll take time to answer this but let's get into it:

 

I mainly study the team from each boss. Consider it like this: in almost all bosses, you only have to take the FIRST pokemon into account. This is because you will be exploiting the first pokemon in their lineup to setup on them.

 

One of the exceptions is Brock, as his Aerodactyl has Taunt and you have to take it out (or use a Oblivious Slowbro, which ignores taunts) so you can set up against the next pokemon.

The rest of the team is irrelevant as you will take them out in a single turn with your sweeper who you can equip with a Focus Sash.

 

However, if you want to use a Setup Sweeper, analyse if you will use it vs multiple bosses or just one. If you will use it against multiple bosses, analyse how many of them use special moves and how many use physical moves. Take only the pokemon you'll be setting up against into account.

If you will only use that setup sweeper for that specific boss, you will only analyse what that pokemon exactly needs.

 

Lance Boss can be cheesed using an Own Tempo Slowbro to avoid being confused by Dragonite's Hurricane (first pokemon) and with equilibrated bulk (20+ in defenses and hp, not something like 30 def and 5 spdef) because his pokemon use both physical and specially oriented moves. It can also be cheesed in 7 turns with a Cloyster with Skill Link, 20+ atk and speed (ignore bulk on this one), adamant, shell smash once and icicle spear six times while holding a focus sash.

 

You can use any pokemon as a sweeper in a Baton Pass Team as long as its offensive stats are massive. You can ignore its bulk if you simply stick a Sash onto it. Rarely ever will any Boss Pokemon use a priority move against you (only exception I can think of is Link's Aegislash)

 

You can also consider which pokemon in your team actually need defenses and bulk to work or if it is irrelevant. Bulk in Gengar is irrelevant, he just needs 20+ spatk and speed to level it up fast, secure failed kills if anything wrong happens (Sturdy causes some accidents in bosses) and destiny bonds require you to always faint in one turn.

 

For Counter and Mirror Coat strategies, you also want low bulk and high HP to be able to counter with as much damage as possible (these moves depend on your HP stat but not on your defense or special defense)

 

When you check each one in prowiki, you should also check how many of them are purely physical attackers with physically attacking movesets, how many are special attackers with specially attacking movesets and how many are mixed.

 

You will only check the first pokemon of each boss fight. For example, if 13 out of the 20 bosses start with a Magnezone, 5 start with a Conkeldurr and 2 start with a mixed Infernape, your priority is to have a setup debuffer, memento and baton passer specifically trained mainly in physical defense. Or, as mentioned above: prepare your pokemon according to the boss pokemon you will use to setup.

 

TLDR: It depends on each boss. Check if you will use your boss pokemon for multiple bosses or just one. If it's multiple, they should have equilibrated and balanced defenses, but if they're all physical or they're all special or it's just one boss, check their teams via PROWiki. You might be able to avoid training too many pokemon unnecessarily for bosses :)

 

So, I took some time and had to read it quite some times, but let me refrase your answer, how I understood it:

 

1. Some Pokemon don't need to care about defences. These are the roles, where they don't have to survive more than one hit. In this group you find some Mementoers, Hazard Geodude, Desteny-boder and Endevour-users. They normaly have either sturdy or carry a Focus Stash.
   
2. Sweepers after Batton pass normaly don't need to be tanky. It can help them if things go wrong, but normaly they onehit the enemy before he can attack. Most of the times a Focus Stash is all defence that is needed
   
3. The other roles, namly those that have to tank more than one hit (e.g. Batton Passer, Debuffer, Setup Sweeper), is where the defense Stats are relevant.
   
4. In this case HP is always relevant. Def and SpeDef depend on the Pokemon you want set up. These depend on the boss.
   
5. Most time you use the first Pokemon but for some Bosses you're better of defeating the first Pokemon with DestinyBond or Endevour and setup at the second (third is theoreticly also possible but then you loose roles in your setup)
   
6. If the Pokemon you setup only has Physical moves you don't need Spedef on the Pokemon, if it has only Special moves the Def stat is useless. Some Pokes have mixed attacks, then a mixed Statset is needed.
   
7. Since you want to minimize your needed pokemon, you Optimaly still have all defenive-stats, so you can use the same eg BattonPasser for many bosses.
   
8. Debuffer are an exeption since you won't use a physical debuffer against a Special attacker. Since you want to debuff both sides a mixed debuffer needs both sides.
   
9. Your Sweeper, if you want him to be somewhat tanky, needs all stats, since he potentially will be attacked by all Pokemon the Boss uses.
   

So baring I did't make a mistake in my summary , let me ask my question again:

 

For BattonPassers/Debuffers/... are there enough bosses that need a mixed defense-set to make it nessesarry to hunt for mixed ballanced pokemon, is it enogh to content with specialist (high def low Spedef or reverse) if you got him first or is one stategie good for beginners but after you got the hang on the easier bosses/ the easy and fore some medium setting, you probably need to change your team to manage the hard bosses/ hard setting?

 

Same questions for other roles I forgot.

 

For Sweeper/Tanks: Is it enough to have a balanced set (Def Nature but with IV and EV SpeDef at the same level) or is it better to have a maximum Def + rest Spedef and a Max Spedef + rest Def version of the same Pokemon lategame?

 

I apologise for asking for clarifications but I would like to know if my thoughs went totally of the rails or if they're on the right track.

[Bhimoso]

So, I took some time and had to read it quite some times, but let me refrase your answer, how I understood it:

 

1. Some Pokemon don't need to care about defences. These are the roles, where they don't have to survive more than one hit. In this group you find some Mementoers, Hazard Geodude, Desteny-boder and Endevour-users. They normaly have either sturdy or carry a Focus Stash.
   
2. Sweepers after Batton pass normaly don't need to be tanky. It can help them if things go wrong, but normaly they onehit the enemy before he can attack. Most of the times a Focus Stash is all defence that is needed
   
3. The other roles, namly those that have to tank more than one hit (e.g. Batton Passer, Debuffer, Setup Sweeper), is where the defense Stats are relevant.
   
4. In this case HP is always relevant. Def and SpeDef depend on the Pokemon you want set up. These depend on the boss.
   
5. Most time you use the first Pokemon but for some Bosses you're better of defeating the first Pokemon with DestinyBond or Endevour and setup at the second (third is theoreticly also possible but then you loose roles in your setup)
   
6. If the Pokemon you setup only has Physical moves you don't need Spedef on the Pokemon, if it has only Special moves the Def stat is useless. Some Pokes have mixed attacks, then a mixed Statset is needed.
   
7. Since you want to minimize your needed pokemon, you Optimaly still have all defenive-stats, so you can use the same eg BattonPasser for many bosses.
   
8. Debuffer are an exeption since you won't use a physical debuffer against a Special attacker. Since you want to debuff both sides a mixed debuffer needs both sides.
   
9. Your Sweeper, if you want him to be somewhat tanky, needs all stats, since he potentially will be attacked by all Pokemon the Boss uses.
   

So baring I did't make a mistake in my summary , let me ask my question again:

 

For BattonPassers/Debuffers/... are there enough bosses that need a mixed defense-set to make it nessesarry to hunt for mixed ballanced pokemon, is it enogh to content with specialist (high def low Spedef or reverse) if you got him first or is one stategie good for beginners but after you got the hang on the easier bosses/ the easy and fore some medium setting, you probably need to change your team to manage the hard bosses/ hard setting?

 

Same questions for other roles I forgot.

 

For Sweeper/Tanks: Is it enough to have a balanced set (Def Nature but with IV and EV SpeDef at the same level) or is it better to have a maximum Def + rest Spedef and a Max Spedef + rest Def version of the same Pokemon lategame?

 

I apologise for asking for clarifications but I would like to know if my thoughs went totally of the rails or if they're on the right track.

 

1.- Exactly. Some pokemon always want to be at 1 HP (counter/mirror coat) to bounce all the damage to the opponent or Endeavorers to exploit it. Mementoers don't care about bulk because they'll just Memento and faint instantly. There's no way to survive it.

 

2.- Exactly. In a Baton Pass Team, you only need to tank a single hit: The hit where you use Baton Pass and switch in your Sweeper. That hit could be a critical hit and screw all your plan if you don't have a Focus Sash.

 

3.- Yes, they need to be bulky.

 

4.- HP ALWAYS relevant. Aways.

 

5.- Exactly, the Third is possible. This happens in Brock, we normally Destiny Bond or Counter his Mega Aerodactyl AND Golem to setup vs Steelix, who is extremely weak.

 

6.- Correcting: If your pokemon only has physical ATTACK or SPECIAL ATTACK, you only need that specific stat. You can ignore the other one. Unless they're mixed attackers. That's the exception.

 

7.- Yes, if possible, you should have decent defenses (if you won't use Focus Sash, but I don't recommend NOT equipping it)

 

8.- Exactly. Each boss mainly uses a certain stat to damage you (most bosses' pokemon share the same attacking side).

 

9.- Exactly. This happens in Slowbro and Clefable. They're too slow and even if they have +6 at all stats, they might receive a critical hit as they'll always be slower than some Boss Pokemon.

 

 

In my opinion: YES. You REALLY need to have both sides. Even against some Easy/Medium Bosses. You should seriously get one of each. There are some bosses that have immense physical defense against your physical sweepers and you'll need to use a special sweeper instead. And some of these bosses get absurdly hard in higher difficulties. You'd better have everything ready for the 3 difficulties.

 

I like the idea of having balanced EVs in both defensive stats, honestly. It's an ok idea. The only situation where this might backfire is in bosses where they hit super hard in the physical or special side, and since you don't have full investment into one side, they destroy you anyway. I'd like to see you try it out :)

[Momot]

Thank you, that's exactly what I asked for

 

I'm atm training my pokemon and really hope, that the ones I think are good enough will hold up.

 

If I get important insight I will share it, either here, or if it's big enough, in it's own threat.

[Rhynolb]

Great guide, very helpful for new players (like me) but also very confusing lmao

I think I need to read it several times to fully comprehend it (yea i am that slow)

 

[Bhimoso]

Just now, RhynoLB said:

Great guide, very helpful for new players (like me) but also very confusing lmao

I think I need to read it several times to fully comprehend it (yea i am that slow)

 

It's not your fault :) as the forums have been reworked, the Guide has become disorganised. I am now working on fixing it (funnily enough, I was editing it while you just answered).

[Bhimoso]

I DID THE THING

I FIXED 35 PAGES OF THIS GUIDE

I'm so done LMAO bye I'm back to making new guides.

[Probe1]

Thank you.  This was a terrific guide.  I just started playing again for the first time since 2017 and my boss lineup was one disabler and five (5) setup sweepers.  You know if the first sweeper faints then just setup again on a new one.  ...

Back then I could have used this guide.  Real bad.

Edited December 3, 2020 by Probe1

[Bhimoso]

7 minutes ago, Probe1 said:

Thank you.  This was a terrific guide.  I just started playing again for the first time since 2017 and my boss lineup was one disabler and five (5) setup sweepers.  You know if the first sweeper faints then just setup again on a new one.  ...

Back then I could have used this guide.  Real bad.

I legit can't believe someone actually read through 35 pages of words of my guide lol

Glad  you enjoyed it