Ban ASH GRENINJA in pvp

[Luharrr]

14 hours ago, Eric66 said:

You cannot be serious, right? 1 line, okay, I couldnt answer more to that. But heres the question. You guys want to ban it, beacuse you cant deal with it? You should adopt to it than. Many "kind" people asked me on discord, why do I want to ban pokes like Chansey, Skarmory, Alomomola and so on. They asked, I cant deal with them, or what? I asked them the same question, and their only answer was "lol". Many players have atleast 1 or 2 counter in their team, and the so called "ladder players" are afraid of that mon. Thought they are there, beacuse they have many checks and answers and not beacuse they are afraid of a pokemon. Pokes like Goodra laughs at Ash-Greninja, while there were many calculations, how ridiculous is to stay in with Ash-Greninja against many poke. Dragonite, which is one, if not the most common dragon type in pvp, banded or dd set, easily deals with Ash-Greninja. So, heres the question. You cant adopt to meta? Or I should play rain or stall, and literally make people angry at pvp? Beacuse these 2 teams are the worst among all of them, I dont say they dont need skill, but I dont think using recovery/status moves with regenerator abilities, or putting up rain and use Kingdra or any other Swift Swim poke need so much thinking. Fun fact, when they will add tapus and magearna, we will have the same topic, beacuse they are broken. The million amount of set that they can have will change the whole meta, and we will say the same, they should be banned beacuse not everyone have checks for them. 

zzz cringe

 

 

23 minutes ago, Aggs said:

I dont think you understand where I'm coming from. Bottom line, I will abuse this Mon until it's banned, and I'll adapt alright. I guess i tried giving an explanaton on why, but you still don't understand. I can't force you to learn, and if you don't want to learn, be my guest. I gave you a whole book to read, and you read the first line, congrats. Come back when you have something constructive to say.

+1 

[Refandra]

So many poke op banned like aegislash,didnt u guys worry? for someone who buy greninja bb with very expensive price. Greninja not so op,many counter like ferro, chansey, azumarill and other

[Norex]

49 minutes ago, Refandra said:

So many poke op banned like aegislash,didnt u guys worry? for someone who buy greninja bb with very expensive price. Greninja not so op,many counter like ferro, chansey, azumarill and other

I wont bring up the same arguments again, as many people already made very good posts already.

I just want to say that the fact people bought/hunted one should never be an argument for not banning it. The decision has to be independent of facts like that. People should look at the topic more open-minded, ignoring the fact they used money/time to get a BB Greninja.

[0danobunaga]

https://pokemonrevolution.net/forum/topic/161750-an-unhealthy-battle-bond-the-ash-greninja-case/ you guys can refer this

Edited October 12, 2020 by 0danobunaga

[Keabu]

5 hours ago, Refandra said:

So many poke op banned like aegislash,didnt u guys worry? for someone who buy greninja bb with very expensive price. Greninja not so op,many counter like ferro, chansey, azumarill and other

 

So they shouldn't ban it just because you bought one for a lot of pokedollars ?

 

^ this thread in a nutshell

Edited October 12, 2020 by Keabu

[Refandra]

35 minutes ago, Keabu said:

 

So they shouldn't ban it just because you bought one for a lot of pokedollars ?

 

^ this thread in a nutshell

Nope i dont have it,but my friend have it he bought 10m

[Soggyteabag]

There are 13 pages of useless back and forth.

 

Bottom line is: Ash-Greninja is broken. 

 

Either we ban it, or everyone starts abusing it on the ladder, causing mayhem.

 

Easy-to-understand example:

As soon as you start using UNVIABLE mons that would otherwise be useless to wall a powerful poke, you know it is busted.

 

Exhibition A: 

DISCLAIMER I AM NOT TAKING AN STANCE ON THE SMOGON TIERING SYSTEM AND IF IT SHOULD BE FOLLOWED, IT IS ONLY AN EXAMPLE

 

One huge reason why dracovish was banned from gen8ou is cause it made unviable pokemon and sets like Seismitoad (Water absorb and Stormdrain)  good, simply cause it walled it. IMO If you have to dedicate an entire unviable pokemon to specifically beating a broken mon that has little counterplay, then it is broken. 

tl;dr

 

As soon as people say, "Oh Ash Gren isn't good cause calm azu walls it" you know that these sets are hot garbage, and the only reason that you would even consider running it is to have a check dedicated to beating Ash gren. If ash gren never existed, you would have no friken reason to run these sets. (Or pokemon)
 

 

ALSO, WHAT DO THE MODS THINK?

I'd like to have some input by some competent mods who understand the importance of a balanced pvp meta.

 

O YEAH, +1 to everything that aggs said, he beat me to it.

 

Sincerely,

-Teabag

Edited October 12, 2020 by SoggyTeaBag

[Eric66]

On 10/12/2020 at 2:42 AM, Aggs said:

I dont think you understand where I'm coming from. Bottom line, I will abuse this Mon until it's banned, and I'll adapt alright. I guess i tried giving an explanaton on why, but you still don't understand. I can't force you to learn, and if you don't want to learn, be my guest. I gave you a whole book to read, and you read the first line, congrats. Come back when you have something constructive to say.

You dont understand it either. The reason of banning Greninja is too op is nonsense, a 5 yo kid could find out a better reason. There are mons that can check it/counter it, Specially if its locked to a move due to specs. If you abuse it currently and you keep winning, why do you want to ban it? Its not that op. Just check a storm drain poke like Gastrodon, laughs at it. Gave me a whole book? It was nice, I understood it very well, but none of them makes sense since its not impossible to kill. Protean Greninja is far harder to kill, since while you can kill Ash-Greninja with a Mach Punch, until using Shadow Sneak with  Protean Greninja, makes it far harder to kill. But thats just my point and be my guest to continue this without any offense. 

[Leo]

19 hours ago, SoggyTeaBag said:

tl;dr

 

As soon as people say, "Oh Ash Gren isn't good cause calm azu walls it" you know that these sets are hot garbage, and the only reason that you would even consider running it is to have a check dedicated to beating Ash gren. If ash gren never existed, you would have no friken reason to run these sets. (Or pokemon)

Calm H.A. Azu has been used in PRO as an excellent counter to Serp thou, so its uses are not that exclusive.

Anw, it remains true that Ash Gren is super hard to check atm. People here and there have been saying "Oh, just mach punch/vacuum wave it", but Ash Gren is a late game cleaner and will seal the game once your Conk/Luca got the slightest of chipped damage to be 1hko-ed by Water Shuriken, so it's kinda funny for to see the Mach Punch argument. Extreme Speed, esp. from a Banded Poke, is a legitimate check thou.

So, it's a shame, but +1 to a temp ban to Ash-Gren until more of its checks are released. Kudos to the game makers for releasing this awesome mon thou, just not quite at the right time.

Edited October 13, 2020 by Kuto

[Dopxmine]

9 hours ago, Eric66 said:

You dont understand it either. The reason of banning Greninja is too op is nonsense, a 5 yo kid could find out a better reason. There are mons that can check it/counter it, Specially if its locked to a move due to specs. If you abuse it currently and you keep winning, why do you want to ban it? Its not that op. Just check a storm drain poke like Gastrodon, laughs at it.

252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon: 181-214 (42.4 - 50.2%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

i don't see where it comes in on ash gren and "laughs at it". maybe you're more familiar with the sub 200 rating range, where people don't switch out but a good player will never leave a pokemon as influential as ash gren in on something that could ohko it with priority.

 

9 hours ago, Eric66 said:

since while you can kill Ash-Greninja with a Mach Punch,

252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Water Shuriken (20 BP) (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Conkeldurr in Rain: 354-423 (100.8 - 120.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

 

9 hours ago, Eric66 said:

If you abuse it currently and you keep winning, why do you want to ban it? Its not that op.

 

do you know what op means? this is the exact definition of a pokemon that is overpowered and needs to be banned, although, temporarily in my opinion until gen 7 comes out. 

as a side note: there is no such thing as "not that op". either it's op or it's not. 

Edited October 14, 2020 by Dopxmine