Mawilite - Metagrossite - Sablenite - Greninja Ban Envelope

[Eth4rnal]

+1 on they should ban the poke before released, to not let player effort go to waste

[Liz]

2 hours ago, CosaNostra said:

healthy of the meta.

 

the healthy goal for you is:

 

 

healthy for you to be 30 min in a fight

 

many more stallers were missing

 

Edited April 24, 2021 by Liz

[Gdarch]

-1. 

 

I have read so many complaints about the recent bans decided by Walross. For me, he did the right thing and the only argument I can actually understand is that Walross should have let people know about these bans before the release of the Pokemon.

 

Regarding complaints about Greninja ban, people interested in Pokemon from a « competitive » perspective should know that Showdown players agreed to ban it in 6G with ORAS released. ORAS giving to Greninja all its coverage moves like low kick, gunk shot and one of the reasons it can actually pressure in an unhealthy way, so many teams.

https://www.smogon.com/smog/issue44/ou-to-ubers

It’s not because we, players, have been able to use it during years that this means Greninja is OK for the meta.

 

Mega sableye/mega Mawile are Pokemon that obviously restrict team building way too much and should be banned for that very reason.

 

Mega Metagross ban is also fine in my opinion regarding how bulky, fast and powerful this Pokemon is although, Unlike the other two I could understand it being unbanned regarding how it suffers from 4 moves syndrome.

 

Arguments about how popular a Pokemon is, are totally irrelevant when you must decide a ban.  

ex: I like Lucario, Mega Lucario should be allowed in pvp. LOL

 

Arguments like « but I can tank it with... or revenge kill it with » are also limited if you are referring to uncommon/unused Pokemon for the benefit of a broken one.

ex:  I can tank Mega Mawile with Impish Arcanine. Yes bro, and what do you do with this super dog against other teams -_-.

 

I think we can all agree that revenge killing Aegislash could be done with many Pokemon but this is not sufficient for it to be allowed.

 

I can see it coming already, people telling me « PRO is not Showdown, PRO has its own META, PRO players don’t have  the Showdown players skills etc. » I could say yes to all these questions but did we do anything to show it to Walross when we could do it? I mean did we, as players, argument about wanting our own meta? 

 

https://pokemonrevolution.net/forum/topic/132015-pros-pvp-inconsistencies-in-regards-to-moveability-combinations/?tab=comments#comment-724941

 

When Staff asks for our opinions only few people show interest about it, but when decisions are finally made, many complaints come, lol. 

 

PRO has its own specificity since we either have to farm or buy Pvp Pokemon. Is this specificity the only reason why PRO meta is so stale and resilient to changes and diversities? 

For me the answer is no. This is all due to the laziness, miscommunication and intellectuall dishonesty of all people involved in PRO.

Edited April 25, 2021 by GDarch

[Eric66]

2 hours ago, GDarch said:

-1. 

 

I’ve read so many complaints about the recent bans decided by Walross. For me, he did the right thing and the only argument I can actually understand is that Walross should have let people know about these bans before the release of the Pokemon.

 

Regarding complaints about Greninja ban, people interested in Pokemon from a « competitive » perspective should know that Showdown players agreed to ban it in 6G with ORAS released. ORAS giving to Greninja all its coverage moves like low kick, gunk shot and one of the reasons it can actually pressure in an unhealthy way, so many teams.

https://www.smogon.com/smog/issue44/ou-to-ubers

It’s not because we, players, have been able to use it during years that this means Greninja is OK for the meta.

 

Mega sableye/mega Mawile are Pokemon that obviously restrict team building way too much and should be banned for that very reason.

 

Mega Metagross ban is also fine in my opinion regarding how bulky, fast and powerful this Pokemon is although, Unlike the other two I could understand it being unbanned regarding how it suffers from 4 moves syndrome.

 

Arguments about how popular a Pokemon is, are totally irrelevant when you must decide a ban.  

ex: I like Lucario, Mega Lucario should be allowed in pvp. LOL

 

Arguments like « but I can tank it with... or revenge kill it with » are also limited if you are referring to uncommon/unused Pokemon for the benefit of a broken one.

ex:  I can tank Mega Mawile with Impish Arcanine. Yes bro, and what do you do with this super dog against other teams -_-.

 

I think we can all agree that revenge killing Aegislash could be done with many Pokemon but this is not sufficient for it to be allowed.

 

I can see it coming already, people telling me « PRO is not Showdown, PRO has its own META, PRO players don’t have  the Showdown players skills etc. » I could say yes to all these questions but did we do anything to show it to Walross when we could do it? I mean did we, as players, argument about wanting our own meta? When Staff asks for our opinions only few people show interest about it but when decisions are finally made, many complaints come, lol. 

 

https://pokemonrevolution.net/forum/topic/132015-pros-pvp-inconsistencies-in-regards-to-moveability-combinations/?tab=comments#comment-724941

 

When Staff asks for our opinions only few people show interest about it, but when decisions are finally made, many complaints come, lol. 

 

PRO has its own specificity since we either have to farm or buy Pvp Pokemon. Is this specificity the only reason why PRO meta is so stale and resilient to changes and diversities? 

For me the answer is no. This is all due to the laziness, miscommunication and intellectuall dishonesty of all people involved in PRO.

I aggre with like 80% of what you said. Greninja has indeed all of his coverage move, and this makes it strong. But here's the question. Against which other poke do players even think more than 1 second about the moveset? I mean, some meta pokemon, like Ferrothorn, Dragonite pretty much using the same moves every single time, while at Greninja, you need to think twice what is gonna be your next move. Mega Sableye is a good ban, since its forced you to run fairy type just for it. Mega Mawile and Metagross is so so, since Zapdos can tank Mega Mawile, and Zapdos is meta tank imo. The popularity thing and "this and that can counter it" is the other thing I aggre with you. Of course, I said that many thing can counter Greninja, but I got shut down immediately with the answer, "what if they have extrasensory or shadow sneak?" 

For the last part, and I mean no disrespect, I think there is a reason why many players dont say anything when staff asks our opinion. Did we, I mean a bigger circle had its opinion asked? Were their thoughts really considered just once that they might change the game into a better way? Or they read it, and thats it? We were showned that there is a Council, but their opinion didnt matter at all, many of them left the Council for a reason. 

[Cruelgreen]

3 hours ago, Liz said:

 

the healthy goal for you is:

 

 

healthy for you to be 30 min in a fight

 

many more stallers were missing

 

Those teams aren't stall team lol 

İf they was stall team they would be worst stall teams ever. One of them don't even have defogger and both  don't have unaware wall. 

[Liz]

the only thing to expect about all these dramas is the gn7 that comes out in full.  otherwise these ideas from the counsil will be boring

[Liz]

1 minute ago, CruelGreen said:

Those teams aren't stall team lol 

İf they was stall team they would be worst stall teams ever. One of them don't even have defogger and both  don't have unaware wall. 

 

I have not put combinations.  only what is used more in pvp

Edited April 24, 2021 by Liz

[Eric66]

21 minutes ago, Liz said:

the only thing to expect about all these dramas is the gn7 that comes out in full.  otherwise these ideas from the counsil will be boring

And when will they get released? We should wait years them to get released, and just let our poke stay in the pc for years, beacuse a few amount of players cant deal with Greninja? Or Mega Mawile? When Tapus gonna gets released, players will be forced to create a tactic to counter Tapu+Lucha combo, since its broken. Of course, unless they ban it, but since they are totally allowed in Showdown, its not gonna go anywhere. 2 maybe 3 of the bans were right, but Greninja (and Mega Mawile) should be still allowed in pvp, since we basicly cut down different playstyles, teams that require these 2 mons. Balance/stall works perfectly with normal Sableye too, and they pretty much prefer it, as I know. According to Mega Metagross, its strong, fast, but not hard to counter, so if anything, that has the highest chance to be removed from the "banlist". 

[G3n3r4l]

48 minutes ago, Eric66 said:

I aggre with like 80% of what you said. Greninja has indeed all of his coverage move, and this makes it strong. But here's the question. Against which other poke do players even think more than 1 second about the moveset? I mean, some meta pokemon, like Ferrothorn, Dragonite pretty much using the same moves every single time, while at Greninja, you need to think twice what is gonna be your next move. Mega Sableye is a good ban, since its forced you to run fairy type just for it. Mega Mawile and Metagross is so so, since Zapdos can tank Mega Mawile, and Zapdos is meta tank imo. The popularity thing and "this and that can counter it" is the other thing I aggre with you. Of course, I said that many thing can counter Greninja, but I got shut down immediately with the answer, "what if they have extrasensory or shadow sneak?" 

For the last part, and I mean no disrespect, I think there is a reason why many players dont say anything when staff asks our opinion. Did we, I mean a bigger circle had its opinion asked? Were their thoughts really considered just once that they might change the game into a better way? Or they read it, and thats it? We were showned that there is a Council, but their opinion didnt matter at all, many of them left the Council for a reason. 

Yea i love when zapdos can tank a +0 mawile, just wait till it gets to +2 though.

 

0 SpA Zapdos Heat Wave vs. 92 HP / 0 SpD Mawile-Mega: 172-204 (65.1 - 77.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 184+ Def Zapdos: 237-280 (61.7 - 72.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 184+ Def Zapdos: 123-145 (32 - 37.7%) -- 0.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

[Eric66]

8 minutes ago, g3n3r4l said:

Yea i love when zapdos can tank a +0 mawile, just wait till it gets to +2 though.

 

0 SpA Zapdos Heat Wave vs. 92 HP / 0 SpD Mawile-Mega: 172-204 (65.1 - 77.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 184+ Def Zapdos: 237-280 (61.7 - 72.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 184+ Def Zapdos: 123-145 (32 - 37.7%) -- 0.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Yes, but why would you let it set it up? I mean, if thats the reason of the ban, than thats worse than anything. Doesnt matter what you let set up, unless you have unaware/answer to that poke, you are done and swept. Quiver Dance Volcarona can not be stopped even by Chansey/Blissey, cause its gonna 2 hit ko it. With this logic, we should ban everything that has any type of set up move.