Petition to Unban Greninja from Ranked OU PvP

[Shunsou]

56 minutes ago, EvilProtagonist said:

just want to chip in here i see bunch of guys using the argument that greninja is unpredictable with unlimited moves, and justify his "op-ness" with that, meanwhile i just want to say that i completely agree with idkup that the only set u should use is ice beam, hydro pump, spikes, extrasensory/hp grass. Any other set in ranked is garbage and all u who advocate it should be ashamed of urself and ur limited brain!

if you mean the ninja who oda used with mainly pivot uturn gunkshot icebeam, and naughty ninja jughead used to get ladder, well then yes i can agree they have limited brain, their limit was on top 1 back to back. that what not the point of this topic created, this is just how ninja got banned with fairly power and weakness, and even waiting perfectly wall like toxa when this poke already known for years and not everyone even use this poke or even know how to use even some confused what move to put untill they not use at all. and this not broken at all, its just good. if the user good

[Iammeetdp]

3 hours ago, Spaciow said:

I find it funny how you made a petition and not a vote, just to hide the fact that not everyone likes greninja.

Also, the issue with greninja isn't the fact people like it or not. It's that it's way too unhealthy. Yes, it is frail and it got a 4-move syndrom, but that's not enough to make it balanced. Frail? It's a revenge killer able to revenge kill most of the metagame, with a crazy 122 speed and a fairly good attack stat. 4-slots syndrom? It already got 4 STABs, not 4 moves, but 4 STABs all with different typings. The oppenent has no way to know what you're playing (except maybe U-turn), and having the STAB provide you more power than it would normal have: a hidden power fire STAB is the same as a flamethrower non-stab, just imagine.

It got no real switch-in, only checks. While it should be a good way to beat offenses, it became able to beat all styles with some coverage. Clefable? Gunk Shot. Chansey? Low kick. Ferrothorn? HP fire and low kick. Heatran? Low kick and HPump. Tyranitar? Low kick. Alomomola? HP grass

It puts so much pressure because the oppenent doesn't know what moves it carries, which means greninja is creating momentum like a mad man by provoking switches. It gives it lots of free turns to put spikes on and even toxic spikes.

It's not because it was here for 2 years that it was balanced, it's that people got attached to it or enjoyed selling it for crazy prices, but that has nothing to do in PVP. Even if you compare with Smogon, PRO is mostly gen 6 ORAS, and Gren got banned at the very beggining of ORAS. Guess what, it was because of Low kick and Gunk Shot being added to its movepool. And guess what, these moves are available on PRO too.

I don't like Mega-Metagross either, but the comparaison is way too far-fetched.

 

First of all I didn't knew that I can hold a free lance Voting on forums without permission or not soo I made the Petition, I m sure if there where to be a voting ( I already asked @Shinoharafor one, no response) than the majority will be for unbanning greninja.

 

Secondly, all the pokes u mentioned above that greninja can kill are all 2hkos and they are all tanks! They can heal/swtich to a mon bcs they know what playstyle the ninja is ofc after that (reveled hp or move) 

 

Lastly, again I would say that not knowing what moves ninja carries create pressure on opponent is an excuse, not a reason to ban ninja. I can list 100 mons here who can carry unpredictable moveset! 

Edited May 3, 2021 by iammeetdp

[Evilprotagonist]

6 minutes ago, shunsou said:

if you mean the ninja who oda used with mainly pivot uturn gunkshot icebeam, and naughty ninja jughead used to get ladder, well then yes i can agree they have limited brain, their limit was on top 1 back to back. that what not the point of this topic created, this is just how ninja got banned with fairly power and weakness, and even waiting perfectly wall like toxa when this poke already known for years and not everyone even use this poke or even know how to use even some confused what move to put untill they not use at all. and this not broken at all, its just good. if the user good

well i am talking about the set that pushed gren into ban, which is the set that made gren bannable, every other set or w/e is okish in ranked im sure. And well... I'mnot sure if you are just fanboying odo and jughead or w/e, but i am sure ladder player that can consistently ladder could if  they wanted to, get ladder with sub optimal pokes, especially when playing ranked in pro you are not matched with player of same skill level. I am sure they can prob play 5v6 and make ladder with enough games. Gren is a a-tier + poke even with out the "op" set i mentoned so for sure thats beter then 5v6 XD. I want to reply to your secund half too, but i literly cant understand what you are trying to say.. "ninja got banned with fairy weakness" and "and even waiting perfectly wall like toxa when this poke already known for years and not everyone even use this poke or even know how to use even some confused what move to put untill they not use at all. and this not broken at all, its just good. if the user good". sorry i have no clue what that suppose to mean.

[Shunsou]

4 minutes ago, iammeetdp said:

First of all I didn't knew that I can hold a free lance Voting on forums without permission or not soo I made the Petition, I m sure if there where to be a voting ( I already asked @Shinoharafor one, no response) than the majority will be for unbanning greninja.

 

Secondly, all the pokes u mentioned above that greninja can kill are all 2hkos and they are all tanks! They can heal/swtich to a mon bcs they know what playstyle the ninja is ofc after that (reveled hp or move) 

 

Lastly, again I would say that not knowing what moves ninja carries create pressure on opponent is an excuse, not a reason to ban ninja. I can list 100 mons here who can carry unpredictable moveset! 

as i see so far, all banned pokemons ninja and megas uses tanks as target cant tank. why not anyone see or atleast imagine if your oppo not even got a single tanks, there only bulky sweeper and prio user. i dont anyone can answed what mega sableye can do to volcarona clefa etc, what mega mawile can do to landorus garchomp keldeo  or anythihing bulky and faster. all i can see everyone uses tanks or stalls for victim example. and metagross as not wallbreaker not banned because it cant deals with any tanks that totally walls it. imagine what poke can kill all 700 other. but nobody use example when metagross facing something like landorus garchomp bisharp keldeo lopunny etc that they totally lose to metagross that not wallbreaker. i just dont get fairly example of it, everyone uses tanks and walls for main topic it cant handle it. i just cant find any justice even for example poke and about the decision.

also why nobody use ninja example with lopunny or bee jolteon aerodactyl sceptile manetric etc, nnja cant even one shot tornadus till it use uturn momentum to switch with pursuiter or something rush ninja to run and free hit next poke

[G3n3r4l]

5 hours ago, Eric66 said:

Same thing. We run out of opinions, we make it personal. Im not sure, if you ever heard about Showdown. I do, and thats why I stated, that if Greninja is banned due to being broken, than we dont need tapus, and we dont need toxapex. Obviously, they will be added. But Toxa makes SD real cancer, you never know, when you encounter it. It pretty much forces you to have atleast 1 pokemon that can deal with it, and combining it with stuffs like Lando or skarmory, EQ will do nothing, beacuse they will easily switch out, and gain momentum. Yeah, I want Tapus too. I want to see what ppl will say, when Tapu+Lucha combo will break the pvp. Or just simply Tapu Koko under rain, having access to Volt Switch, and easily gain momentum. 

As a matter of fact, i have heard of it, it's very nice to use i save all my teams their for building. How do you think Showdown has lasted with both tapus, and toxapex in their game, it seems perfectly fine whenever i've played gen 7 OU, but i guess that's just me. On your point about toxapex, that's complete idiocy. On a normal team would you not always have a poke that can take care of every other poke in the game? or at least the most common ones, last i checked you always should, otherwise your team is bad. EQ isn't the only way to beat it, psychic does a lot to it, as does thunderbolt, and if you run thunderbolt, then that pairing with skarm dies, if he's got lando, well, just run hp ice.

[Shunsou]

19 minutes ago, EvilProtagonist said:

well i am talking about the set that pushed gren into ban, which is the set that made gren bannable, every other set or w/e is okish in ranked im sure. And well... I'mnot sure if you are just fanboying odo and jughead or w/e, but i am sure ladder player that can consistently ladder could if  they wanted to, get ladder with sub optimal pokes, especially when playing ranked in pro you are not matched with player of same skill level. I am sure they can prob play 5v6 and make ladder with enough games. Gren is a a-tier + poke even with out the "op" set i mentoned so for sure thats beter then 5v6 XD. I want to reply to your secund half too, but i literly cant understand what you are trying to say.. "ninja got banned with fairy weakness" and "and even waiting perfectly wall like toxa when this poke already known for years and not everyone even use this poke or even know how to use even some confused what move to put untill they not use at all. and this not broken at all, its just good. if the user good". sorry i have no clue what that suppose to mean.

for the first one,the only ppl i fan is my girl. i do not fansing anyone but i can accept if they have talent.
second i also not a ninja or stall or anything fan, what i like is all about strategy and justice.
and the last one id said ninja got banned without a fair decision, they only doing example what ninja cant tank and how annoying ninja in match, and all i get is all example for anyone is tanks. ninja kill gliscor kill garchomp cant doing defog infront cant this cant that but all is about tanks. i never find argue when ninja facing lopunny or etc i mention in pre comment that easily beats ninja. i can agree this poke can breaks so many walls, because this what main protean used for. but in other side it also has alot of weakness including it fragileness. and at the point. i my opinion, this pokemon is far from word 'broken'

Edited May 3, 2021 by shunsou

[Master0fpuppets]

Silver Server Winrates:

 

April: Landorus %56 , Keldeo %54 , Mega Loppuny %52, Heatran %52, Zapdos %52, ................................................................................................................. Greninja %48

March: Landorus %55, Zapdos %53, Mega Loppuny %53, Mega Venusaur %53, Heatran %53 .................................................................................................Greninja %48

February: Landorus %56, Zapdos %53, Keldeo %53, Garchomp %53, Mega Scizor %52 ..............................................................................................................Greninja %48

January: Landorus %54, Zapdos %52, Mega Scizor %52, Mega Loppuny %52, Heatran %52 .....................................................................................................Greninja %49

December 2020: Landorus %55, Zapdos %53, Mega Scizor %52, Mega Loppuny %52, ................................................................................................................Greninja %47

November 2020: Landorus %58, Tornadus %58, Heatran %55, Mega Scizor %52, Rotom %52, ................................................................................................ Greninja %47

October 2020: Tornadus %59, Landorus %58, Zapdos %56, Heatran %55, Scizor %53, ................................................................................................................ Greninja %47

September 2020: Landorus %59, Zapdos %57, Heatran %54, Skarmorty %53, Scizor %53, ......................................................................................................... Greninja %48

August 2020: Landorus %61, Heatran %57, Rotom-Wash %54,Skarmory %52, Garchomp %52,................................................................................................ Greninja %47

July 2020: Muk Alolan %57, Garchomp %55, Rotom-Wash %55, Heatran %54,................................................................................................................................. Greninja %47

June 2020: Muk Alolan %57, Garchomp %55, Heatran %55, Azumarill %54,........................................................................................................................................Greninja %47

May 2020: Muk Alolan %56, Azumarill %55, Heatran %54, Garchomp %54, Rotom Wash %53...................................................................................................Greninja %47

April 2020: Heatran %56, Muk Alolan %55, Rotom Wash %55, Excadrill %54, ....................................................................................................................................Greninja %46

March: 2020: Heatran %56, Ferrothorn %55, Rotom Wash %55, Garchomp %54, .............................................................................................................................Greninja %48

February 2020: Heatran %57, Rotom Wash %56, Garchomp %54, Bisharp %54, ................................................................................................................................Greninja %45

 

 

   Greninja is broken and unhealthy for Ranked PvP as you can see in the table. On the other hand, Landorus, Zapdos, Heatran, Tornadus, Rotom Wash, Garchomp, Mega Scizor and Mega Loppunny all are so healty for Ranked PvP with at least %52 up to %61 winrates. Especially Landorus is overhealty. (Don't ban it too). So banning greninja with %45 up to &49 rating is very logical decision. (once reached %49 in a year, averagely %47 winrate) Now i can enjoy PvP more without Greninja, Thanks for banning it.

Edited May 3, 2021 by Master0fPuppets

[Eric66]

26 minutes ago, g3n3r4l said:

As a matter of fact, i have heard of it, it's very nice to use i save all my teams their for building. How do you think Showdown has lasted with both tapus, and toxapex in their game, it seems perfectly fine whenever i've played gen 7 OU, but i guess that's just me. On your point about toxapex, that's complete idiocy. On a normal team would you not always have a poke that can take care of every other poke in the game? or at least the most common ones, last i checked you always should, otherwise your team is bad. EQ isn't the only way to beat it, psychic does a lot to it, as does thunderbolt, and if you run thunderbolt, then that pairing with skarm dies, if he's got lando, well, just run hp ice.

So you can always run hp ice. You can always run psychic poke. You cant afford it every single time. Gen7 is not healthy at all. Atleast not the teams that are 100% meta. Its not idiocy, I just can see the stall rising again. Even more. But this isnt about stall now, lets put it aside. Toxapex with regenerator ability, moves like baneful bunker makes it extremely annoying. Skarmory was just 1 example, players will surely find a way for a "better" stall pair. Players bringing up Garchomp, Gliscor, Zapdos, Tornadus. Without protean, they would All die without exception to Ice Beam. Gliscor 4x weak, Garchomp 4x weak, Zapdos and Tornadus 2x weak to Ice. Why not bringing calculations that are not super eff3ctive against opponent mons? Theres no logic behind this, beacuse we could ban each and every offensive mon, beacuse they can kill several pokemons. Specially with the right moveset. 

[Jorogumo]

1 hour ago, iammeetdp said:

First of all I didn't knew that I can hold a free lance Voting on forums without permission or not soo I made the Petition, I m sure if there where to be a voting ( I already asked @Shinoharafor one, no response) than the majority will be for unbanning greninja.

 

Secondly, all the pokes u mentioned above that greninja can kill are all 2hkos and they are all tanks! They can heal/swtich to a mon bcs they know what playstyle the ninja is ofc after that (reveled hp or move) 

 

Lastly, again I would say that not knowing what moves ninja carries create pressure on opponent is an excuse, not a reason to ban ninja. I can list 100 mons here who can carry unpredictable moveset! 

I messaged 47 players (all Council members and as many top 25 players as I could find on Discord). 5 did not reply, while 8 out of 42 mentioned unbanning Greninja, as opposed to 29 for Mega Metagross. Is that not good enough for you? I think that says a lot about the qualifications of those who are signing this petition.

If Walross (or Keita) allows me to mention their names, I also can.

Edited May 3, 2021 by Jorogumo

[Iammeetdp]

44 minutes ago, Master0fPuppets said:

Silver Server Winrates:

 

April: Landorus %56 , Keldeo %54 , Mega Loppuny %52, Heatran %52, Zapdos %52, ................................................................................................................. Greninja %48

March: Landorus %55, Zapdos %53, Mega Loppuny %53, Mega Venusaur %53, Heatran %53 .................................................................................................Greninja %48

February: Landorus %56, Zapdos %53, Keldeo %53, Garchomp %53, Mega Scizor %52 ..............................................................................................................Greninja %48

January: Landorus %54, Zapdos %52, Mega Scizor %52, Mega Loppuny %52, Heatran %52 .....................................................................................................Greninja %49

December 2020: Landorus %55, Zapdos %53, Mega Scizor %52, Mega Loppuny %52, ................................................................................................................Greninja %47

November 2020: Landorus %58, Tornadus %58, Heatran %55, Mega Scizor %52, Rotom %52, ................................................................................................ Greninja %47

October 2020: Tornadus %59, Landorus %58, Zapdos %56, Heatran %55, Scizor %53, ................................................................................................................ Greninja %47

September 2020: Landorus %59, Zapdos %57, Heatran %54, Skarmorty %53, Scizor %53, ......................................................................................................... Greninja %48

August 2020: Landorus %61, Heatran %57, Rotom-Wash %54,Skarmory %52, Garchomp %52,................................................................................................ Greninja %47

July 2020: Muk Alolan %57, Garchomp %55, Rotom-Wash %55, Heatran %54,................................................................................................................................. Greninja %47

June 2020: Muk Alolan %57, Garchomp %55, Heatran %55, Azumarill %54,........................................................................................................................................Greninja %47

May 2020: Muk Alolan %56, Azumarill %55, Heatran %54, Garchomp %54, Rotom Wash %53...................................................................................................Greninja %47

April 2020: Heatran %56, Muk Alolan %55, Rotom Wash %55, Excadrill %54, ....................................................................................................................................Greninja %46

March: 2020: Heatran %56, Ferrothorn %55, Rotom Wash %55, Garchomp %54, .............................................................................................................................Greninja %48

February 2020: Heatran %57, Rotom Wash %56, Garchomp %54, Bisharp %54, ................................................................................................................................Greninja %45

 

 

   Greninja is broken and unhealthy for Ranked PvP as you can see in the table. On the other hand, Landorus, Zapdos, Heatran, Tornadus, Rotom Wash, Garchomp, Mega Scizor and Mega Loppunny all are so healty for Ranked PvP with at least %52 up to %61 winrates. Especially Landorus is overhealty. (Don't ban it too). So banning greninja with %45 up to &49 rating is very logical decision. (once reached %49 in a year, averagely %47 winrate) Now i can enjoy PvP more without Greninja, Thanks for banning it.

Lol you are actually just proving out that this other pokes are more in win rate (broken definition for you)and still its lowkey ninja that gets banned. Thanks