Lets talk together about Staff & Player relationship !

[Shinohara]

54 minutes ago, Nhocsake said:

 

I have been living among the British for 3 years now and I can say that the word Prick isn't an insult word. It was actually a "love" curse to say. I never feel being insulted by that word under any circumstances and it is 100% differ from the word [sausage].

 

Picture shows a small petition to see if prick is a swear word with nearly 70% choose No.

 

I sometimes use the word Prick to my friend too and I don't want to be banned like @666G0D999did before. My suggestion is unless it is obvious curse like "F*ck,", the word should be discuss with the player, on what context is he/she using and why he/she uses it, with obvious screenshot so he/she can explain for him/herself because base on the language and context, it could be something else (sometimes I don't even remember what I said in the past)

 

As the screenshot states as well, exactly like you mentioned too, context is important.

If the word is used as a way to insult someone, that's where it is punished. Obviously, if that's used in a non-offensive way or simply in a context where it does not mean any offensive thing, then it is not punished.

 

In this case, it was used to insult someone who had scammed another user and as a way to insult him for having done that, and therefore it was punished.

 

Context matter, and is always considered. However, context does not justify the violation of any rule as said before.

If someone insult you, you are not allowed to insult them back or similar cause at that point both of you will have broke the rules and will get both punished.

We have a report center exactly to handle the rule violations

[Olker]

On 7/3/2021 at 11:44 AM, Olker said:

Pasting this here to get ignored by staff since my thread was locked.

 

I never had issue with staff, in fact, I always said PRO, comparing it to other games I played, had one of the best staff I've seen.

 

We all agree the charmander World Quest was a complete disaster. Of course, this was something that wasn't too easy to handle. They made another WQ, which was awesome, if not for:

 

1. They manage the numbers, they knew it was impossible.

2. They made fun of us after not completing it through a system link, showing this image.

 

 

I wasn't going to rant until that system message popped up. You are basically laughing at us.

 

Now imagine someone who plays casually because he doesn't have much time, but still loves the game. Imagine he scheduled his time so he was free for 1st WQ. Well, bad luck, he could not do it because of all of the crashes, nothing to do here. Surprise, good news! There's another WQ to "compensate" the last one. Somehow he finds the time to play, and spend 3-4 hours to complete it, just for the goal to not be met. Well, yeah, that's how the system works, I would say, if it wasn't because of the points I mentioned above.

 

I'm not asking them to give us a ticket, or any compensation (although many probably should get one because of the time spent). I'm only ranting about their burlesque attitude, which, if you ask me, doesn't improve the staff - player relationship.

 

Still waiting for at least one staff member to answer to this. They're being pretty silent towards the topic after the massive trollfest.

[Hawluchaa]

26 minutes ago, Olker said:

 

Still waiting for at least one staff member to answer to this. They're being pretty silent towards the topic after the massive trollfest.

The only one who can answer you that is Eaty, we have nothing to do with the world quest and i can assure you that half of us were just as mad about it, we are not only staff, we are players as well, which you did not take into consideration in this post. So i can assure you we do know how it feels to have done that hunt as i have done it myself as well, same as several other staff members to be in the same situation. 

 

Have a good one,

 

Sincerely Hawluchaa.

[Shinohara]

On 7/4/2021 at 11:04 PM, 666G0D999 said:

Sorry, but no, you don't take context into consideration. You just said it yourself. You realize I insulted a scammer, but the context doesn't matter because I broke the rules.
 

 

 

Honestly, you are just looking for a way to justify the violation of our rules and that's easy to prove.

In the first place, you think that context allow someone to break rules, when that's absolutely false since regardless of the context you cannot violate our rules.

 

Context matter, and is always considered. However, context does not justify the violation of any rule as said before.

If someone insult you, you are not allowed to insult them back or similar cause at that point both of you will have broke the rules and will get both punished.

We have a report center exactly to handle the rule violations.

 

So, saying that we do not consider the context only cause you got banned after violating the rules (insulting someone who had violated them as well) is false and a mere excuse to justify a rule violation.

 

 

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This is not the first time. I also got banned for mentioning Osama Bin Laden in all chat. This was considered terrorist activity. lol Or the time I got banned, when I said regular mods can not fix the servers. <-- This statement was understood as an insult to staff, when in reality, all I was saying is they are not devs and ppl in all chat should stop complaining about the servers to regular mods.

Granted, you did private message me ingame and listend to me, but it didn't change the outcome of my ban.

 

Since you mentioned the bans, we went reviewing them out of respect to understand if anything was mishandled.

Honestly, after that, I can tell that's not what happened and everything was handled properly and, at this point, it's tiring to hear things that are generated just to put people in a bad light.

It was also found out is that you should not even be allowed to play anymore. To be more accurate and explain, you can create a new account and play on that following rules, but if your previous accounts have reached the maximum amount of punishment already (being 8-9), then if you start the break the same rules again with the new one, then it will get permanently banned immediately as well. 

 

However, despite you have more than 13 punishments (listed below) due to a former staff error (unable to identify your previous accounts) you were able to surpass the maximum amount of punishments and avoid the permanent ban, which honestly sucks and is unfair toward the other players and in fact will need a fix specially giving the severity of the infractions.

 

What's most annoying is the fact that you keep trying to put the staff in a bad light by saying false things such as you never broke rules (show in one of the screenshot below, part 14) and that we punish without a reason or for really small stuff and that staff are useless. However staff exists exactly for the situations in the screenshot here below: enforcing the rules to guarantee a safe and comfortable/enjoyable gameplay to people.

 

 

Lets go back on your history starting from your first account: xXBlackAshXx and then Saturnalien and then 666g0d999 (being your accounts, proved by MAC/DEVICE used to play and IP connections)

 

1. Homophobic hate message

 

 

 

2. Homophobic statement (faggot)+ Vulgar language

 

3. Someone selling their Poke and you felt the need to PM him this - Vulgar language and Harassment

 

4. Extreme Homophobic Insults again after you got banned for the deplorable behaviour 

 

5. Again Homophobic insults, this time toward one of our Discord Moderator (after you got told you cannot discuss your ban there)

 

6. After getting the discord mute for what you said above, you moved to DM to insult in DM (again, homophobic comments)

 

7. A user try to offer you a price for something you were selling. This was your reply.

 

 

8. You... acting as  GM and insulting people?

 

9. Insult toward another player, again.

 

10. Telling a player to fuck off (deplorable behaviour/vulgar language) just for an offer received. 

 

11. Homophobic insult + Deplorable behaviour/Vulgar language 

 

12. You trolling sellers with fake offers (which is against rules) just for fun.

 

 

13. Calling a user a dick, to insult him, cause the user had broken the rules (as you yourself said). Prick meaning is based on context, as pointed by another user before, and in yours you were using it to insult a player for having broken the rules.

This is probably the smallest of all of them, but yeah, you also admitted using it to call the guy an idiot and calling someone an idiot is insulting them.

 

14. You starting to discuss the 9/11 events and Bin Laden. 

This is important to be explained: in short we do not allow these sensitive topics to be discussed cause they are indeed sensitive and can lead to toxicity or even discussion way too mature for Pokemon (PG 7) so the staff member warned to stop and issued a small 60 seconds mute.

However, in addition this was said as well, and you were asked to stop and move it to complaint if you felt needed as game is not the place to do that.

Your answer to that was this:

 

Giving you were not interested in stopping and moving to complaint like asked, you were just muted since enough is enough and game is not the place where complaints are handled and neither it should contain drama and similar. Also why the hell staff would steal your pokemon? That's insane and false lol. You were removed pokemon only cause it was given back the the real winner of the auction and you got back the money of course., that's it. That's enforcing rules and not stealing you a pokemon.

 

 

14. Not a punishment, but you claiming you never broke the rules before (however here above prove totally different) to put staff in a bad light and you in a good one.

 

In addition to that, in a good amount of appeals you also tried to justify your violation of the rules in some way, exactly like did now.

 

 

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I'll show you a snippet from the appeal, but I removed the name of the moderator:

Then he wrote this:

How is that response appropiate? He asked me what I did. That makes absolutely no sense. Also I only bumped the thread once more (so twice) in 24 hours and he feels the need to warn me. But browsing pokemon shops instead of answering to my appeal seems like more fun I guess. Also, he never answered my question about the dates. He completely ignored it. When I pm'd him that the evidence screenshot isn't working, he completely ignored me.

 

I sincerly couldn't remember saying that, because I usually don't use that word. Then I figured out it happened when somebody got scammed and the reason I used the word prick, is to not get banned. Because prick is like calling someone an idiot or stupid, something that Qeight is obviously allowed to do, but I guess when players insult scammers it's not okay.

 

 

You were well aware of what you did, however tried to not know. You did it another time by saying:

Despite above screenshots prove different.

Spoiler

 

 

Also asking the player if they are aware of what they did, specially in situation where that is really obvious like all the situation shown above, is a way to give the user a chance to be cooperative and honest since the start and therefore having us offering another chance to them.

If they don't remember, like you claimed in your case, we simply remind it LIKE IT WAS DONE FOR YOU.

 

Doing it is fine cause it give the user a way to directly create themselves a way out the ban by being cooperative and honest since the start. If they don't remember, we'll mention it and consider honesty and cooperation after having done that.

 

 

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I thought it's based on context and rules, instead it's based on his emotions. Because he feels like I lied and I'm "paranoid" he will not unban. If I sucked up to him and insincerely played the "social" game, he would've unbanned me. This is what I'm talking about when I say bs bans. Context does not matter.

 

But what bothered me the most was this: "Creating other appeals, will only lead to a harsher punishment, and a ban of the forum. "

So please tell me this doesn't discourage players from appealing/reporting staff, scared they will get banned from forum or ingame. The general "Complain" section doesn't seem like the right spot. I know you do have a special section to report staff now, but why doesn't he know that?

 

Appeals are based on many things like it can be severity of the infraction, amount of punishment received, honesty, cooperation, and behaviour in general.

Not necessarily an appeal lead to an unban if you are honest and cooperative, in your case you should have been permanently banned on all your accounts that you use cause the MAX amount of punishment we allow is 8-9 and you got more than 13 (didn't mention the little infractions in my summary above like the 60, 120, 300s mutes as they are really small stuff that generally are handled with a little warn and a little mute of not even 60, 120 or 300 seconds mute).

 

Punishment history does not reset if you change account, it's not like if you have 4 accounts you need 32 punishments to be permanently banned. It would be insane and dumb from us.

Unfortunately one of our former staff committed an error and was not able to find your connection with your previous alts, and therefore your permanent ban was delayed until today.

 

Also you don't need to lick staff ass to appeal. Literally you have to do only 2 things: be honest and cooperative. That's it.

Doing that doesn't mean playing the social game and neither licking staff asses, simply means being a respectful and educated person in 2021.

 

 

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the fact we (staff) punish for mini offenses

 

 

 

Honestly speaking, closing with this part that you keep repeating in game and not, you do not understand what a minor offense is.

Calling someone a faggot, a disgusting faggot, a garbage piece of shit ARE NOT small offenses. 

 

There are for sure small offenses that can be blocked from evolving to bigger one. One of this can be discussing sensitive topic for example.

If a staff member is online, they will stop the sensitive topic from being discussed with a small general warn chat or a small mute (after the warn) and that's easily handled.

However, if the user keep discussing it and ignore the staff, it's normal it escalates to a bigger offense.

 

Super good to point out that an offense is an offense, regardless if big or small. What changes between them is the way you handle them.

Being an offense, even if small, it means that it's something against the rules of the game and therefore require an intervention.

If it would NOT require an intervention, then it would not be a offense.

 

What changes between them is the way you handle them, when a minor offense is handled in a more chill way than a big offense exactly cause the damage caused is clearly and obviously inferior.

 

 

 

[666g0d999]

Thanks for proving my point.

 

This is what I wrote in my very first post in this thread: "I also have the feeling that once you broke the rules, you will always be black-balled no matter what. You get treated like scum and every little thing gets blown out of proportion."

Some of those things I have said indeed, some of them are false. Like trolling players. It doesn't matter though. My account was banned forever. According to your rules, it's fine to make another account and "try again".

 

This thread proves that you guys will never admit to your mistakes and only point at others. I never said I "never" did anything.

You just proved that people are black-balled once they have broken the rules. Pretty much everything you posted is from 2018. I never commited such an offense again, instead after bettering myself, certain mods always try to ban me for the dumbest offenses ever. That's why you don't respond to my points. I talk to someone and mention Osama Bin Laden as a meme - I get banned. Context doesn't matter, you don't include the whole chat. I call someone a prick for scamming, I get banned.

You also left out the most important part. Keita, you are the one who banned me back then. Please show the people the screenshots of what made you ban me. The fact I insulted players who tried to sell ditto to new players, back when it wasn't coded and OT counted for the bike quest. Most of the messages here are me responding to people who insulted me first. Like the Gengar. I was trying to sell it in trade and someone pms me alongs the lines of: "What a piece of [heck] gengar, it's not even worth 5k". Stop pretending like I insulted people for no reason. I had veteran players steal my shiny unown and epic pokemon. Your little circle jerk always sticks together. I'm not homophobic, but I did use slurs for certain people. Especially men who pretend to be women.

 

Also I love how you show something like the 60k offer. I'm trying to sell a rare tier shiny and get a 60k troll offer. Of course I responded that way.

 

The Bin Laden post is accurate aside from the last part. What the hell is an omniprocessor. That was added to the conversation and is fake. Inside Job is a pretty popular meme, ask Norm Macdonald. Also the reason I know it's fake, is because it's not a screenshot from all chat. I was posting in all chat at that time and all the other screenshots are not like that.

 

Also it's not insane that staff steal pokemon. It happened multiple times. Even Discord Mods did it. I bought an Halloween Togepi, trained it and the next day it was taken away. I got my money back and a message that I supposedly was "too late". Instead the discord mod only made an offer (not auction) and never responded back. I made an offer and bought it. According to the rules, regular trades are only official once a price and place is determined. That wasn't the case, but because it's a mod who cares. I also got banned for complaining about that.

 

The last screenshot from all chat is taken out of context. I never broke the rules in that chat session. I was mute banned for 120 seconds for no reason. So I complained about it. Of course you don't show the whole chat and only my snippet.

 

The forum screenshots are funny. You really think people remember things they said weeks, if not months before they get banned? It's not like you include the entire chat, you only post what I said. The context is completely gone, once again proving my point. When I ask why was I banned and the explanation is "Did you fall on your head as a child?" is the offense I commited, what kind of reaction should I have? lol That's passive agressive (something you do on Discord all the time, hello Qeight) and technically doesn't break the rules. Why would that even matter. So because I don't remember two single posts I am lying. Why don't you include ALL the posts of me admitting to multiple bans?

But it's okay, the game was getting stale anyway. You announce things and three years later it's not implemented. It's still the best poke game out there, but it's not worth all the bs.

Shoutout to everyone who played with me. It was fun helping newbies and meeting some people.

 

This post will most likely get deleted again. :rolleyes:

 

 

Edited July 6, 2021 by 666G0D999

[Olker]

Now that we're talking about imsults, I have a question. How do you handle the punishments according to culture? For example, in spanish chat, it's more common to "insult" those who ARE your friends (I guess it's pretty common in latin culture), when you talk to them, but in a "I'm kidding" way (Of course, not all of the insults have this "friendly" intention), but those who do, are they punished anyways?

[Shinohara]

51 minutes ago, 666G0D999 said:

Thanks for proving my point.

Some of those things I have said indeed, some of them are false. Like trolling players. It doesn't matter though. My account was banned forever.

 

Honestly, it is really clear from what has been posted above that, out of 13 infractions, most of them are literally you using homophobic insults calling people "faggot", "disgusting faggot", "lowlife faggot", "if you are gay you need to seek help cause you have mental problems." or stuff like calling people "garbage piece of shit". 

Therefore, no. Those are not false and neither are trolls or jokes and it's evident from the logs, the screenshot, the context and the offended people that reported you. 

 

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Going a bit beyond my staff role, and speaking to you as a fellow human (will be worded a little bit less professionally), I would also like to add a thing about the homophobic insults and similar.

 

We are living in 2021, in a evolved society where people should feel free to chase their own happiness and be free to make their own choices (including gender and sexual orientation) without having anyone trying to harm them or spreading hate toward them for that.

Things like "you lowlife disgusting faggot", "garbage faggot", "if you are gay then seek help cause you have mental problems", spreading in this way homophobia, hate and also belittling/mocking someone in base of their sexual orientation (not limited to this, as mentioned below), are absolutely unacceptable.

And it is even more unacceptable being proud of doing it and trying to justify that with any possible excuse, as if that's a good thing.

 

As Staff Members of PRO, we won't force you to change your own mindset about it regardless of how horrible it might be. However we absolutely won't support and/or allow any kind of hate or discrimination toward people, specially (but not limited to, of course) the one based on race, gender or sexual orientation.

Therefore, we will absolutely be stern and heavy when handling those. 

 

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According to your rules, it's fine to make another account and "try again".

 

You are absolutely correct, you are allowed to create another account to play (remembering the 4th account rule). However, as explained before, punishment policy does not reset for every account you own.

This means that if you have reached the maximum amount of punishment possible on your first account (like you did on xXBlackAshXx), if you create a new account and break rules once again then it's a direct permanent ban and we won't start back again from the warning.

 

We do it with everyone, but was unfortunately missed on your case cause a former staff mishandled it by not noticing that you were xxblackashxx/saturnalien and therefore treating you as a new player. This obviously required us to fix the mistake and, although I am not the responsible person, I personally apologise on behalf of staff to the people that experienced those messages quoted above.

 

Also, the fact players are allowed to create a new account is exactly to allow them to join the game and play it, while following however our rules. This cause we give them another chance to prove that they can play without breaking rules in any way.

However, if they still break them again and again like you did, we are heavy on them cause the user has already more than 8 punishment received before and already one, or more, account permanently banned.

 

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With this, the case is now closed and enough clarification were given to everyone here, as it was fair to be.

[Shinohara]

1 hour ago, Olker said:

Now that we're talking about imsults, I have a question. How do you handle the punishments according to culture? For example, in spanish chat, it's more common to "insult" those who ARE your friends (I guess it's pretty common in latin culture), when you talk to them, but in a "I'm kidding" way (Of course, not all of the insults have this "friendly" intention), but those who do, are they punished anyways?

 

Ehi there @Olker

 

Thanks for asking and for the patience. As I am already on this page due to a previous answer, I will reply to you and then go back to the previous one so I do not miss anyone.

 

Being really direct with you, we have staff members that cover those area related to specific languages.

• For example, I do speak Japanese, Korean, Mandarin&Cantonese, and Italian really good and therefore I am able to properly handle contexts related to those languages in an appropriate way.
• However, I am totally unable to handle french one for example, and that's why we have French staff like Zeskyr or Naha!
• At the same time, Senrosia speak spanish and therefore is perfectly able to handle a spanish chat and spanish context.
• Qeight speak german (same as many other staff like Eaty or Shaolan).
• Eon speak portuguese.
• Etc
• Etc

 

Same goes for basically for almost every other language. We literally have roles inside the staff team that are assigned in base of the languages we speak in a great way.

Using myself as example, here you can find how it works 

Spoiler

 

In this way, contacting/forwarding the content to the person that is in charge and is able to handle that language is really comfortable.

We also have people native from USA and UK and NZ, and this helps a lot in understanding slangs used in those countries.

 

Context always matter, as explained above, and therefore it's considered before issuing a punishment. Only real infractions are punished, and to be considered something an infraction you need to check the whole context first.

 

As for insults, it really depends from the situation cause they are all different from each other. If a sitaution, even if in a jokingly way that in your country means nothing bad, is pushing too far, then a staff will simply intervene in chat to make you know it.

 

Please, let me know if something is unclear or if you have any other questions.

[Ryuusenka]

well, i have been watching this post for a few days now, and i felt the need to say how i feel about you guys, because maybe i didnt get another chance, until a few months ago i was disappointed in how the staff generally treated the players , for me it costs nothing to reply to a message or say have a great day when ending conversations, this can change the way you are seen, for me the best member of you for sure and ehkoe, always answered me with respect, and I felt it. now with other staff members i didn't feel the same thing, i was always ignored. 

another thing, i don't see improvement in events i miss something new in the pro, it is more and more stopped, and when we ask you about it, we are ignored, this has happened to me several times.

if you want the relationship between the staff and players to improve, the staff must communicate more with the community, most of them love you, you are respected, don't forget that.

 

Have a nice day!

[Caprifame]

43 minutes ago, Shiroufubuki said:

well, i have been watching this post for a few days now, and i felt the need to say how i feel about you guys, because maybe i didnt get another chance, until a few months ago i was disappointed in how the staff generally treated the players , for me it costs nothing to reply to a message or say have a great day when ending conversations, this can change the way you are seen, for me the best member of you for sure and ehkoe, always answered me with respect, and I felt it. now with other staff members i didn't feel the same thing, i was always ignored. 

another thing, i don't see improvement in events i miss something new in the pro, it is more and more stopped, and when we ask you about it, we are ignored, this has happened to me several times.

if you want the relationship between the staff and players to improve, the staff must communicate more with the community, most of them love you, you are respected, don't forget that.

 

Have a nice day!

 

I totally agree with the first part, and I 100% agree with Ehkoe as a positive example.

Such simple things can help to improve the relationship a lot!