Genesect, Gothitelle and Blaziken testing phase

[Amn]

dont ban any of them, they are all very good pokes :) :Crazy:

ban:

xd but seriously unbanning gothiethelle would simply ruin the pvp meta again. Longer match would occur more often and the same problem will be repeated agaain.

dont ban:

dont ban them cause ive seen people complain about a lot of stuffs. Gothiethelle is easy to kill if ur an "experienced" battler. There are many ways to counter a goth team and if you say u cant, youre just making up excuses. In my opinion people should be more creative than copying other peoples team or relying on the pokes that are known as "dominant" pokes in the meta. With that being said goth should be unbanned.

 

blaziken:

o god, why would u even ban this thing? bc its too op? unstoppable? speed boost+batton pass and with its offensive moves its a deadly threat in the meta? LMAO if this gets banned then i think slowbro should be banned too o.o, tangrwoth,blissey and mew and the legends should be banned too O.O cauise theyre too op and people cant find a way to stop them and counter them. :devil:

[Alfrixd]

Ban Gothitelle

Ban Genesect

Unbanned Blaziken

 

 

 

:y: :y:

[Idkup]

https://imgur.com/a/BH6xj

https://imgur.com/a/K4PGE

 

wasn't gonna ladder until late season but guess i have to now

 

BAN Genesect

 

BAN Shadow Tag

 

ABSTAIN Blaziken

 

Genesect

Genesect is nothing if not versatile. Download gives Genesect a boost to an offensive stat whenever it enters the field, capable of powering up its U-Turn to be nearly as strong as Choice Band Scizor's, except at the ridiculous speed tier of 489, wielding a Choice Scarf. Genesect's arsenal includes Iron Head, U-Turn, Ice Beam, Flamethrower, Thunderbolt, Energy Ball, X-Scissor, Explosion, and even Shift Gear, Extreme Speed, and Blaze Kick by event. Two Pokemon currently legal in PRO can safely switch into it - Defensive variants of Volcarona, and defensive variants of Arcanine. However, both are deathly weak to Stealth Rock, and Arcanine has significantly limited recovery due to Morning Sun's 8 PP and the abundance of Drizzle and Sand Stream. Pokemon that may be able to tank a hit and retaliate such as Jirachi and Milotic are no checks to Genesect - U-Turn's current mechanics in PRO cause it to boost the stat corresponding to its opponent's stronger defensive stat, which means any physically defensive Pokemon are eating a +1 U-Turn whenever Genesect comes in, and will be faced with a deeply unfavorable matchup come the next turn. Attempting to predict and play around the likely Choice Scarf gets you destroyed by Life Orb or Choice-bluffing sets, as Genesect's natural base 99 speed outspeeds nearly all defensive assets on PRO, and it has just enough bulk to avoid being reliably revenge killed by priority such as Band Azumarill's Aqua Jet.

 

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Genesect: 126-148 (44.3 - 52.1%) -- 17.6% chance to 2HKO

252+ Atk Sharp Beak Gale Wings Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Genesect: 196-232 (69 - 81.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Genesect: 146-173 (51.4 - 60.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

 

Even if a Genesect user predicts incorrectly, U-Turn means Genesect itself is never at risk, and can still heavily dent any switchin:

 

+1 248 Atk Genesect U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Donphan: 103-123 (26.8 - 32%) -- 35.9% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery (PRO Download mechanics)

248 Atk Genesect U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 195-231 (27.3 - 32.3%) -- 59.1% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery (PRO Download mechanics)

+1 248 Atk Genesect U-turn vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Magnezone: 72-84 (25.6 - 29.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

+1 248 Atk Genesect U-turn vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Talonflame: 53-63 (17.8 - 21.2%) -- possible 5HKO

 

This is very significant chip damage at literally no cost to Genesect's user. However, Genesect is not limited to simply gaining momentum and chipping away at your opponent's team. Explosion is also in its arsenal, and it can use the move to devastating effect, crippling its erstwhile counters at the cost of itself:

 

+1 248 Atk Genesect Explosion vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Volcarona: 362-426 (96.7 - 113.9%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

248 Atk Genesect Explosion vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Arcanine: 213-251 (55.6 - 65.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

And now let us remember that these calcs are based on Genesect without a boosting item, and entirely assuming that it is running a Choice Scarf to outspeed literally the entire metagame. No common Scarfer in PRO has more than 99 base speed - the fastest thing I've seen Scarfed so far is Hydreigon, sitting at base 98, 2 points lower than Genesect.

 

Life Orb Genesect is a different beast entirely. While Scarf Genesect is an enormous asset against offense and balance, and quite capable of providing momentum and chipping away at stall, Life Orb Genesect blasts through stall cores with ease.

 

248 SpA Life Orb Genesect Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Donphan: 364-429 (94.7 - 111.7%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO

248 SpA Life Orb Genesect Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 24 SpD Slowbro: 421-499 (106.8 - 126.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+1 248 SpA Life Orb Genesect Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tangrowth: 393-463 (97.2 - 114.6%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

8 Atk Life Orb Genesect Explosion vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 363-428 (56.5 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

248 SpA Life Orb Genesect Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Skarmory: 218-257 (65.2 - 76.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+1 8 Atk Life Orb Genesect Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 351-413 (89 - 104.8%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

 

 

With Genesect, you can choose a playstyle to invalidate entirely, at the cost of a single teamslot. Scarf to render Offense helpless, or Life Orb to stall-break with ruthless efficiency. Even if the opposing team isn't the playstyle desperately weak to your Genesect set, it will still put in work. Base 99 speed is enough to outrun some of the slower pivots on even the most offensive teams, and Genesect can tank even strong neutral hits if necessary. Choice Scarf still provides invaluable momentum against stall. If you have the wrong Genesect, you have an A-tier threat. If you have the right Genesect, the game is over before turn 1 has been played.

 

Another dimension to Genesect is the sheer amount of switches it forces. As xRevolutionx94 posted earlier, Genesect forces the majority of the metagame off the field with its wide arsenal of coverage. Combine this with Stealth Rock, and the chip damage will rack up to uncontrollable levels, making Genesect invaluable for wearing down checks to basically any sweeper you are pairing it with.

 

Genesect simply has too much offensive presence to be allowed in PRO Ranked. Given its worst matchups, it will still manage to trade 1-for-1, thanks to Explosion and its coverage. Given it best matchups, it will outright 6-0 the opponent's team. It is clearly too much for this metagame, and thus should be banned.

 

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Shadow Tag

Shadow Tag's effect is to prevent the opponent from switching out their Pokemon, unless said Pokemon is a Ghost-type. The primary user of Shadow Tag on PRO is Gothitelle. Given the several posts on here that claim Gothitelle would assist in dealing with "stall" which is apparently remarkably common in low ladder and also apparently far too powerful, I believe I have some misconceptions to clear up.

 

1) Gothitelle is more an asset for stall than any other playstyle.

The crux of the arguments for unbanning Gothitelle are made by people who use it to trap Blissey, Slowbro, etc, set up Calm Mind, and eliminate them. However, they forget that Stall itself can run a Specs Gothitelle to take out any stallbreaking Gothitelle before it ever becomes a problem:

 

252 SpA Choice Specs Gothitelle Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Gothitelle: 194-230 (56.3 - 66.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

(Taunt and Tickle variants of Gothitelle work just as well for this, except the Gothitelle mirror match would take much longer.)

 

Gothitelle can also be specced to remove nearly any stallbreaker (bar Bisharp) that gives a stall team trouble. Gothitelle has a wide movepool, and given a Choice Scarf, enough speed to use it. Rely on Taunt Gyarados to weaken stall?

 

252 SpA Gothitelle Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gyarados: 316-376 (95.4 - 113.5%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

 

Rely on Heracross to boost up and smash through whatever walls stall can put up?

 

252 SpA Gothitelle Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Heracross: 270-318 (89.7 - 105.6%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO

 

Rely on slower methods of stallbreaking such as Clefable? Taunt. Tickle. Calm Mind. Gothitelle gives stall too much leeway in teambuilding, since it can be trained to remove almost any breaker, as they tend to either have middling speed at best and low defenses, or take multiple turns to set up and are slow (Gliscor, Clefable). Gothitelle further removes the danger of Magnezone or Dugtrio trapping either Skarmory or Chansey, as it can beat both with ease. Stall would have its life made much easier with the removal of opposing trappers.

 

2) No matter how hard you try, Gothitelle will not fit on offensive builds.

 

Gothitelle has minimal defensive presence, thanks to its horrible pure-Psychic typing and average bulk and no recovery save Rest. These factors mean that Gothitelle cannot be relied on as a pivot. It cannot be used as an attacker - its Specs set works on Stall as a utility counter for certain Pokemon (namely opposing Gothitelle and Gliscor lacking Knock Off), but it does not have sufficient power to justify a teamslot, as it is dead weight against anything but stall - offense rarely if ever needs opposing wallbreakers removed. It is also extremely slow and would provide setup bait for any team faster than Balance. Unlike stall, Offense often relies on momentum to take care of setup sweepers before the spiral utterly out of control.

 

3) Despite being horrid on faster archetypes, Shadow Tag Gothitelle (and Gothorita and Gothita and Wobbuffet and Wynaut) are uncompetitive in the highest sense.

 

Competitive Pokemon is based heavily around switching for favorable matchups. Shadow Tag removes this central mechanic for one party only, immediately conferring an unearned, opportunity-cost free advantage. Without Team Preview, there is literally nothing you can do or could have done about a Pokemon being trapped - you as a player are essentially taken out of the picture, as your ability to make decisions is taken out of your hands. This is completely against the spirit of a healthy metagame where the choices made by the players decide the outcome. With Shadow Tag, one player holds all the cards in his hands, and the other is reduced to the role of spectator. Shadow Tag is thus inherently uncompetitive, and thus should be banned rather than merely Gothitelle.

---

EDIT: can mods take "ar se nal" off the censor list please?

 

TL;DR: Genesect does a lot of damage. Ban Genesect. Shadow Tag makes stall too easy to build and too good. Ban Shadow Tag

[Elyas2016]

Blaziken:unban cause this is helpfull.Gothitelle:ban Genesect:ban prove :thanks:

[Envymeister]

 

Ban Genesect, as xrevo said genesect can beat almost everysingle poke used in pro, it would ruin the game, so i think it deserves a ban.

Unban Goth, as for goth, shadow tag prevents people to abuse stall, which imo is boring to play against, a 40 mins game ayayay.

Keep Unban Blaziken

[Dakivid]

 

Genesect: unban -> It can't leanr Shiftgear, its ability isn't coded, so i think there should be a period to test it.

Gothitelle: stay banned

Blaziken: ban -> it often is used with Ninetales, to set the sunlight, so you cannot really kill it with Waterpriority like Aqua Jet, while Blaziken has like 800 SPD.

[Lucurryo]

 

Here´s my opinion to this:

 

ASLONG as Download is NOT CODED,- Genesect should stay unbanned!

If download should work correctly, - Genesect should be banned for 10000%!

 

EDIT: Since i know, that download is coded but reversly I vote for BANN Genesect! He WILL get a free dmg boost in any case sadly.

 

Gothitelle: stay banned

 

It´s a Pokemon that can switch into your Pokemon and lock it down! It offeres 0 counterplay in that moment, also got bulky for the next Pokemon, can switch out if pressured and switching back in, to lock down ur next poke

 

Blaziken: For me, I never had problems with him so im fine, let him stay unbanned, otherwise I understand some people so u could think abaout just banning speedboost on him

[Popinsmoke]

 

unban goth for sure, reason very simple, to stop the continues spam of blissey + 4 regen teams. Pvp matches where fun, now its all stall and wasting time to complete 1 match.

 

blaziken. not sure why it should be banned cuz its just a normal poke with enough weaknesses.

 

Genesect; unban, make it a test period to see if it is really overpowerd or not.

[Variation]

[image]https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2017/29/3/1500470399-vote.png[/image]

 

gothitelle : [glow=green]unban[/glow] to get a pro meta less full of stall but may be add a restriction (don't know sth like you can only get one offensive moove or sth like that) to be easier to kill

 

genesect : [glow=green]unban[/glow] cause seriously almost impossible to get one, and a good one is more a miracle than sth else, moreover shift gear / download / technoblast doesn't works, how say that without those 3 things this poke is clearly not so strongh even if get a cool movepool (still per exemple get trap kill by a scarf zone)

 

blaziken : [glow=green]don't ban[/glow], as long as baton pass doesn't works very well (like all the other pivot moove btw), and seeing all the slowbro / azu / tflame and so on running on the pro meta, i really think this poke isn't the first you should ban

[Maremmamaiala]

Genesect: unban - For a period to test it.

Gothitelle: stay banned

Blaziken: unban -since can be countered