Heroofthestreet

3,25m

Nice. Good for you then. This reply of yours already gave me insight of the stance you will be holding. Narrow minded and vain to some extent. Have a good day. Cheers

You really sure that a normal player can get 31 ivs in 4 stats and 30 in 2? Especially on a normal pokemon that can't be rerolled? With the correct nature and ability? What are the odds?

This simply won't go through because the vote of a staff member (or a former one) is as heavy as of at least 20 regular players. Staff need to get rewarded for the things they do, but in my opinion, there are way more fair and balanced ways to do it, than to give them perfect pvp viable legendaries/top tier mons with the hidden power they choose (such as CCs, rerolls, exclusive mounts/cosmetics, even uber legends would be fine as they can't be used in ranked pvp). Although this kind of rewarding of the staff members has always been done, it just started to escalate now because there are more and more of them that can hit the ladder at the end of season or that actually even do it on a regular basis (i can think of at leat 5-6 immediately and i don't even know many staff/former staff members). Giving them the edge over other players in something that is meant to be in the spirit of fair play (such as pvp), should never be considered widely acceptable

Start

Nope

1,3m

[spoiler=Bold HP/DEF Espeon]0 SpA Espeon Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Weavile: 166-196 (59 - 69.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 0 SpA Espeon Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Greninja: 214-252 (75 - 88.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 0 SpA Espeon Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Garchomp: 166-196 (46.4 - 54.9%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO Potential Defense before a Baton Pass or Calm Mind: [spoiler=Timid SPATK/SPEED Espeon]252 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja U-turn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Espeon: 361-429 (133.2 - 158.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO 252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Espeon: 208-246 (76.7 - 90.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery 252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Espeon: 304-359 (112.1 - 132.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO 0 Atk Ferrothorn Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Espeon: 200-236 (73.8 - 87%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 0 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (143 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Espeon: 220-261 (81.1 - 96.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery 252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Espeon: 247-292 (91.1 - 107.7%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery 252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Pursuit vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Espeon: 278-330 (102.5 - 121.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO 252 SpA Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Espeon: 272-324 (100.3 - 119.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO [spoiler=Bold HP/DEF Espeon]252 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Espeon: 237-281 (70.9 - 84.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery 252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Espeon: 304-359 (91 - 107.4%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery 252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Pursuit vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Espeon: 186-218 (55.6 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery 252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Espeon: 208-247 (62.2 - 73.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery 252 SpA Heatran Magma Storm vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Espeon: 169-201 (50.5 - 60.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery and trapping damage It just gets eaten alive, without enough offensive pressure to always get the kill, without Focus Sash as Timid. I kind of find it depressing that Espeon doesn't even OHKO a Greninja with a -SpDef Nature as Bold, but that's not the point here. What's the counterplay to an Espeon in a match up of the likes of Chansey or MG Clefable, where they are not able to put out that kind of pressure immediately? In the case of Chansey, there's almost nothing you can do, to be honest. Chansey is a Pokemon that gives heaps of free turns more often than not, and setup Pokemon always take advantage of Chansey, Espeon is no different. It's similar to the MG Clef case, due to Magic Bounce blocking status moves targeting the Opponent. MG Clef's best option is to go into a teammate that can pressure the Espeon. This is, however, considering ALL of Espeon's options. An Espeon with Stored Power will beat an Unaware Clef with enough boosts, but early on Espeon will not threaten Chansey or Blissey enough. With a low base HP, Timid Espeon just doesn't have the time to pummel over the SpDef giants: +2 252 SpA Espeon Stored Power (100 BP) vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 208-246 (29.5 - 34.9%) -- 13.6% chance to 3HKO (Alongside +2 Spdef that comes with calm mind) Espeon has to be used towards the end of mid-game to warrant any real threat, if any at all. It's just not good. Literally any other Current Baton Passer: It's pretty much the same as Espeon, whereas if you don't give free turns, they will not get the momentum they need to snowball. Aside from Togekiss and Mew, all of the other passers lack any offense whatsoever on their own. Just hit them with decent moves or taunt them. Please. Don't give them free turns, and you will be in a much better spot. I've pretty much repeated the same thing quite a bit by now: Do not give free turns. What does this exactly mean? Giving away a free turn is doing something that does not apply pressure on the opponent that turn, such as healing, switching, or using a status move, and it going unpunished. Depending on the situation, these moves may go punished. However, these options may allow your opponent to do the same thing. The severity of the punishment is what truly decides whether a turn is free or not. A couple of example situations: [spoiler=Examples]Player 1 - Player 2 Gliscor vs Rotom-Wash - Gliscor is Swapped Out for Ferrothorn, and Rotom-Wash Defogs away Stealth Rocks and Spikes. This situation is essentially a free turn for both players, however, this creates an extra free turn for Player 1, as Rotom-Wash(without HP Fire or Wisp) cannot punish Ferrothorn directly. I would say that Player 1 won out of that exchange. Player 1 - Player 2 Scolipede vs Rotom-Wash(Specs) - Scolipede uses Baton Pass, and switches in Garchomp, and Rotom-Wash Hydro Pumped, landing the hit. This situation just turned sour for Player 1, as they were expecting a Volt Switch from Rotom-Wash. They attempted to make the most of their turn, by trying to get in Garchomp without taking damage. This also wastes the turn or turns spent adding Speed Boosts, as now Garchomp is susceptible to a Priority Attack, if it didn't die to Hydro Pump already. Player 2 won the exchange. And, to top it all off, I will add 3 replays, 2 from the most recent Ladder Tournament, and one from the 24th Ladder Tournament(Started in Sept. 2019), which showcases exactly what happens when Baton Pass is given free turns, with a short analysis of the turns given away for free, and what could've been done to prevent it. Replay 1: Volbeat Baton Pass. https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-1095421229 [spoiler=Analysis] Stall vs Baton Pass is a terrible match up for stall no matter how you look at it. Baton needs to run stallbreakers such as Heal Bell Plot Roost Togekiss, or Rain Dance Manaphy, to have a shot at getting through an evenly-skilled player, and these stallbreakers do their jobs well. This game shows why giving away free turns so easily is a loss for stall. Turn 1: Chansey vs Dugtrio - Chansey is Switched to Amoonguss, Dugtrio gets up Rocks. It's Stall vs Baton Pass, and the suicide lead is gonna get up rocks. There isn't much you can do to stop the rocks here. Swapping out was the most poor decision here in my opinion, as at least trading Stealth Rocks means the Stall Player can start racking up damage as the Baton Player switches. Giving any type of offensive team free SR with no contesting is a huge problem already. Baton 1 - 0 Stall Turn 2: Amoonguss vs Dugtrio - Dugtrio uses Earthquake, Amoonguss uses Spore. The Dugtrio has absolutely 0 reason to switch out, as it getting spored is best case scenario, meaning Amoonguss cannot spore anything else. Giga Drain(assuming it has it) would've been the best decision by far, as it would mitigate the Earthquake impact immediately. The turn doesn't have immediate impact, but is crucial for the long-term. Baton 2 - 0 Stall Turn 3: Amoonguss vs Dugtrio - Dugtrio is Switched to Volbeat, Amoonguss uses HP Ice. If the Stall Player had used Giga Drain the previous turn, I would not think that the HP Ice play would not have been as bad, as it does more to the potential Volbeat than Giga Drain would. Unfortunately, this is not the case. Based on the damage, we can assume the Volbeat is some +Spdef nature. Damage on Volbeat is crucial, so if the Baton Pass is thwarted, then Volbeat cannot attempt a huge push again. Baton 3 - 0 Stall Turn 4: Amoonguss vs Volbeat - Amoonguss is Switched to Zapdos, Volbeat uses Tail Glow. NO! No no no no no! You cannot ever do this. This is the most free turn that Volbeat could have gotten. Based on this play, and this play alone, I know the Stall Player is inexperienced with stall. That switch-out means this Amoonguss does not have Clear Smog, which is essential on a team that is weak to MG Clefable with Toxic. The score for the Baton - Stall does not matter, as no amount of points can measure how much momentum is gained here. Turn 5: Zapdos vs Volbeat - Volbeat uses Tail Glow, Zapdos uses Heat Wave. Finally, the Volbeat gets hit for real, but at this point it's too little too late. It's at +6 now, and is ready to Baton Pass. Turn 6: Zapdos vs Volbeat - Zapdos is switched to Chansey, Volbeat Baton Passes to Nidoking. Once again, even at this position, YOU CANNOT SWITCH LIKE THIS, YOU GIVE A FREE TURN AND LOSE HARDER. Going for any damage at all is necessary, or otherwise you will get swept. In 6 turns, the Stall Player has attacked twice. That's 4 turns of freedom within 6 turns, and a team given 4 turns of freedom in that short amount of time should essentially win the game on the spot. And that is what happened. Turn 7: Chansey vs Nidoking - Nidoking uses Focus Blast and misses, Chansey uses Stealth Rocks. Look, I cannot believe that games similar to this are deemed as Baton Pass being broken. Of course a +6 Nidoking is broken, it took 3 turns to setup. But when players, who are suppose to be at the higher end of skill in PRO, cannot deal with a Baton Team in a meaningful way, there really is no one to blame besides the player base's willingness to improve. You can say that at this point, it wouldn't matter what the Chansey goes for, and it may be because of a tilt factor. But this game is just one example of a free win for Baton Pass, because the opponent does not challenge it. Replay 2: Togekiss Baton Pass. https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-979595157 To Be Continued I stopped reading after the part when you said that Defog prevents the baton passer from using the move. Please check your 'facts' in game instead of assuming stuff, claiming them to be the evidence for something

Player name: HeroOfTheStreet Showdown name: HeroOfTheStreet Server: Silver Timezone: GMT +2 (CEST) Rank on ladder: 4

It's not the only one, but it's certainly the one people use in more than 90% of the cases when running Baton Pass teams. As such, taunt is no option to counter it whatsoever, bar the rare and niche prankster users that have access to it. The evasiveness drop Defog causes to the pokemon carrying Baton Pass, won't hinder it from baton passing. Not even in PRO, where we know how the move is bugged in correlation with Intimidate. Next time make sure to check if your arguments are valid, before involving yourself into a discussion. On the screens are the ladder results from June 2019 and November 2019. Both from the SIlver server. I'd advise you to check out rank 10 on the first screen and rank 18 on the second. Again, next time before you say something, make sure it's correct. While I don't necessarily think Baton Pass needs to be banned from the ranked PVP in PRO (due to the properly working mechanics, it definitely should from the ladder tour tho), I will always be against it as long as the people supporting it want to abuse the already broken Manaphy and the hax reliant bulky Togekiss, all under the banner of creativity and diversity.

Nice. I hope more staff will be pushing things like these in the future. Would also be nice to give an exact definition to the terms used in sales, such as 'epic' and 'godly'. Of course for preventing people to spam these adjectives on their sales, which are quite often misleading and hence cause frustration

Start

Buy ada scizor and breloom

400k for charizard

I wasn't referring to "every" specialized PvEr being narrow minded, then most (which can be seen in my post). I'm possibly even wrong with this one, as that's probably not even the case. Usually the minority is always the loudest on the internet (in this case, referring to the kind of people I had described) so I got a bit carried away. My apologies. Anyway I didn't speficially call you out for whinning, then the PvErs (hence why I mentioned them in the bracket). I'm not exclusively a PvPer either, as I also do PvE related stuff (mainly bosses). PvP is my main point of interest tho, so at times it becomes really frustrating to see how it despite being neglected, still gets trashed on by those who have nothing to do with it whatsover (not talking about you in this particular case). From reading your reply, I see you are a reasonable, polite guy that is definitely up for constructive criticism. We definitely need more of such people in this community. Am glad we're also on the same page about priorities and PvP related stuff. As such, I got nothing else to say. Cheers

Something similar would probably be the best sollution, but generally I don't mind. In my opinion, with the things the guild island provides, it wasn't made any "broken' and therefore it doesn't provide any leverage over other guilds who don't have the access to it. Pokemon has never just been about PvP to begin with. In the early days of Pokemon, the only thing you did was PvE. Only the newer Gens introduced PvP and made it popular. But that doesn't mean you can entirely disband the concept of Guilds focusing more on PvE instead, whereas you can only focus on PvP to be rewarded. That's not how it should work at all. The entire guild system is kind of a facepalm situation if you look at it from a non-guild member's perspective. As stated above on the OP, it has caused a lot of issues, compared to solving any, if any at all? People leaving guilds to get into a stronger guild? Possibly stronger guilds kicking players to get more powerful PvP players to secure top 3? It has / will cause future guilds to disband / possibly scramble for powerful PvP players, and is that the development PRO really needs? Where is the fun in being in a guild then, if you cannot get rewarded for your hard work? Unless you PvP your entire guild to top 3? Do guilds really have to host giveaways, lend pokes or give out in-game items to survive from their own pockets? While people in PvP Guilds don't really need to do all that, because PRO essentially rewards that guild exclusively? But what should a guild be like then? I know my post is probably gonna be looked down at with evil murderous eyes from those top 3 guild players. Because they believe they've deserved it. But be real. Do you really think so? Well, I'll let you dwell on this while reading my point below. And then you can ask yourself again, if you really deserve the reward, compared to the counterpart guilds. Well while you're dwelling on the question above, let me tell you one thing. The amount of time you've grinded for a high PvP rank, a few 1000+ players in guilds have used the same amount of time on helping guild members fight PvE / Bosses. And yet you should be rewarded with something exclusive for your guild? And not the guild who help players out with PvE? I just can't see how that is any fair at all for the counterpart guilds, who don't focus on PvP. Or guilds that don't own the top PvP players on the ladder and can't at all even the odds. Now, ask yourself, do you still deserve the reward? If yes, you don't see the bigger picture. If someone's being narrow minded and not seeing the bigger picture, it's mainly the PvErs. You people get PvE related events on a regular, weekly basis, while the PvPers literally have to wait for months in order to just satisfy themselves with a minor PvP update. Yet this doesn't prevent you (many PvErs) to continue on whinning whenever PvPers get something good/exclusive, although it's completely obvious who in reality is actually being neglected

Found. Can be closed

Atk: +25 Speed: +30 Everything else +20. Doesn't need to be gale wings

Corona challenge. What a brilliant name kek

Yeah, it's really practical to wait in a dead queue forever in order to find one match (the unranked one) or to bother other people/your friends for something that you should be able to do without them. Tell me, is it really necessary to talk like this? Patronizing and boasting from a player who has barely 640h in game and is here for less than a year, while obviously having no clue about pvp? To not only me, but also other vet players? Feels as if i would be telling the devs how to code stuff in an arrogant, patronizing manner like i drained all the knowledge of the world, while in reality i have no clue about coding. That being said, i'm done with you as it's more or less impossible to discuss with you. Feel free to keep commenting on the topic and spiting venom on others if it makes you happy

More or less agree and have nothing against. I'd just add being allowed to have only 2 same legends (on two accounts) instead of 4

The point is to try different teams during the same season on two accounts (with legends included), instead of dropping points/the win ratio on the account with which you're planning to achieve ending on the ladder, while attaining fun at the same time. From the comments you left so far, it's pretty obvious you're not a pvper yourself, which is perfectly fine, but when trying to discuss something you should strive to put yourself into the shoes of everyone included in the discussion/topic, in order to get a wider view on the whole idea, instead of looking at things narrowly. For instance, it happens so often that at some point during the ladder season you already have a high amount of points on the account you're hitting the ladder with, but the ladder itself is still far away from ending (like 10-15 days before the end of month), which basically prevents you to try playing anything else on it beside the team you were using so far. This is just one of the situations where the suggested idea comes into play. Other include testing teams with legends on the alt before using them on the main (which in theory is possible, but in practise it is more or less impossible if you want your team to have a legend with good ivs which is not easy to get as you need to invest rerolls) and generally allowing you to play the same stuff on the alt as on your main, without any limits. Also regarding the connection between doing bosses and trading legendaries. Generic boss teams that are supposed to beat most (if not all bosses) are already existing and as far as i know, none of them really needs a legendary in order to succeed, which means you can trade those pokes to your alt and main back and forth as soon as you unlocked trading pokes from a certain region to your alt, which just shows how pointless of an argument that you gave was

Kek. Thx for giving me a good laugh today. Is definitely pointless to keep on discussing with our magnificent majesty. Have a good day my king

To be fair, many other things have already been implemented in the game that could be considered as 'defeating the purpose of an MMORPG play style', from black ms to nature and reroll tickets themselves. I could go further as i'm generally not satisfied regarding how some things work in this game, but it would be pointless

Huh, where should i start? Ok, i'll go through each point of yours. 1 - This is a concern i brought up in the introduction of the topic, where i specifically asked staff is it anyhow possible to make this a thing in game, implying that i'm looking forward for their feedback on this 2 - I said it should be limited to only one alt as you're allowed to pvp with only two accounts and this way imo it wouldn't be unbalanced/broken 3 - According to all i said so far, you are allowed to 'try your luck' with catching only twice; once with your main and once with your alt. Rerolls would have the same impact they have now (if not even slightly more) as you would still need to use them for most of time in order to get an epic legendary 4 - Basically nothing would be changed in this regard, if anything, rerolls would become more valuable 5 - This is a valid argument, but still you wouldn't be able to catch all legendaries with two accounts without doing the world quest, which means it would still pay off 6 - With all my points brought up so far, pretty obvious that the reroll tickets would still be worth a lot and in demand, if not even more than they are right now 7 - Hah, there's a plenty of stuff to do always, even if you'd be able to trade legends on milions of accounts; such as pvping, doing bosses, farming 8 - A legendary isn't made up powerful just because of having +599 stats. It can still suck. Just look at regice and regirock. Rerolling legends is an another thing. No one prevents you from doing the same if you really want to 9 - My main reason is to use it on only one alt while pvping on the ladder, so i can freely have fun with using legendaries there too. To test teams and so on, with the good legendaries i have on my main P. S. I see your comment was based only on reading my first comment, where the topic was brought up, but in further comments i emphasized that it should be allowed only on two accounts, not on four or as much as you want